Re: L3 or ITT PVS-14?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Victor-TNVC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Victor-TNVC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: IPSC_GUY</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">In all of this talk of a comparison of L3 Tubes to ITT tubes the waters have been muddied quite badly </span>by the fact that there is a company called AERO Optics in Ft Worth Texas that does the reclamation of L3's failed tubes. This company, under contract returns a certain percentage of piece parts to L3 but gets to keep a certain number of components to produce their own re-manufactured (sometimes referred to as "REPOTS") Image Intensifiers.
These get advertised as L3 (sometimes Litton) tubes when in fact they are not <span style="color: #FF0000">factory L3 tubes</span>. Their specs are unknown as last I knew, AEO does not posses much of the Hoffman test Equipment required to test the Module in its unpotted form to determine what they have spec wise. So these tubes are pretty much an unknown entity.
So when your making your comparisons compare Factory ITT to Factory L3.
Actual Factory Catalog Spec L3 tubes are somewhat a pain to get a hold of. I have a few and they all cost more than ITT tubes by a good bit. There is a clue too. <span style="color: #FF0000">If your L3 tube was cheaper than an ITT 9800SLG or 9815SLG (Pinnacle) tube... it probably isn't <span style="text-decoration: underline">Factory L3</span>
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IPSC_GUY
SIERRA II ALPHA </div></div>
<span style="font-style: italic">Muddied quite badly</span> indeed...Interesting, I guess all those Filmless and other L3 systems out there many sell that are actually cheaper than factory ITT but came direct from L3 land are all REPOTS?
Seems Summit who has many FACTORY L3 tubes and in many cases have been cheaper than ITT are all REPOTS too?
I guess all those factory L3 data sheets we've had in our hands are <span style="font-weight: bold">FACTORY </span>REPOTS too.
Interesting....
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No Pete, it doesn't help when you continue to throw blanket statements like that out there, see RED above. How would one know who and what you were referring to except to say all tubes cheaper than ITT are "probably not L3 factory." So the DF tubes (see below as well) that are cheaper than ITT must be RE-POTS since you failed to mention these units or the other filmed L3 units to begin with.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: IPSC_GUY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No Vic, I DID NOT say that Summit Night Vision sold repot tubes, in FACT! they have worked to prevent Said repot tubes being labeled as factory L3 tubes by the dealers for several years. Since you asked about those tubes <span style="font-weight: bold">I will say that the very tubes (tubes with data sheets part numbers ending in-DF2 or -DF3 for the unfilmed tubes) you are talking about are not actual catalog spec L3 tubes but lesser grade tubes.</span> In fact, all the D-740s dealers sold as L3 tubes were the ANV/AEO reclaimed tubes I am speaking about and only recently did the importer of the D-740/D-760 crack down on their dealers to stop this practice. This is why people now see these units being sold as “Standard Gen 3” systems on the dealers websites. I will repeat that if you do not have a L3 factory data sheet the seller should have a very good explanation why they were sold as L3 tubes. The catalog spec tubes from L3 have several very specific part numbers and anyone that want to know exactly what they have bought, can IM me and I will be glad to detail what quality tube they have purchased. The same goes for ITT tubes and their part numbers. Does this help?
IPSC_GUY
SIERRA II ALPHA </div></div>
As for catalog L3 Spec tubes, let me know if you need some I can get them, but I can tell you on the whole they are NOT above and beyond the DF2 and DF3 you labeled as "lesser grade" NOT at all. In fact that last batch of these tubes we sold had KILLER specs that BEAT down the "Catalog" L3 Spec units by far AND were a heck of a lot cheaper and were not REPOTS.
Once again not a fair assessment of DF2/DF3 calling them lesser grade units. I think a few other dealers that sell the DF units may also not take kindly on that one...Just saying here. That's like the ITT Comm vs. ITT Mil Spec debate Pete, and you know better than that, but here the waters get muddier still. :-(
Hope this helps and it's a no win scenario here Pete we all know... -Out- </div></div>
Understanding the 100 + part numbers for L-3 tubes is confusing. The DF-2/3 catalog numbers were created to sell a batch of SUB COMMERCIAL CATALOG SPEC tubes. This does not necessarily make them ALL bad tubes but not good enough to be L-3 commercial spec! There is much more to a good tube than numbers on a spread sheet. We were excited to know of these tubes hitting the market however after two full days of grading these tubes using the same equipment L-3 uses we were very disappointed with our yield. We were prepared to buy the entire lot of a couple hundred, but only chose a few that met our specifications. Yes, most of these units had very high numbers on the data sheets, yet all but a few had significant image defects. I.E. edge glow, scintillation, fiber twist fraying, and phosphor streaking to name a few. Resellers and customers would not notice many of the defects unless comparing side by side with an image clean unit. Of course if you have a big spot in zone one anyone will notice that.
L-3 has since streamlined the number of part numbers as it was confusing even to L-3. I want to point out again that just because someone has a part number other than a commercial spec part number does not necessarily make it a bad tube, though the quality can vary wildly.
Pete’s speaking about some resellers claiming to have D-740/D-760’s with L-3 tubes and the DF-2/3 tubes.
This should make it clear.
The DF-2/3 tubes sold by many around the holidays are factory tubes. Yes they cost significantly less than the commercial spec tubes. A side note about this. L-3 creates these unique part numbers for the disposition of unique inventory. This makes up only a small part of the L-3 factory tube market.
“If your L3 tube was cheaper than an ITT 9800SLG or 9815SLG (Pinnacle) tube... it probably isn't Factory L3”
Pete’s statement about low cost L-3 tubes is referring to those dealers selling D-740/760’s and PVS-14’s with supposed L-3 tubes. Those units ARE NOT L-3 but rather AEO/ANV reclaimed tubes! Some of these units were supplied with data sheets claiming to be L-3 or even Litton in some cases. This is the majority of the low cost tubes out there. Some dealers sell them as generic GEN-3 auto gated and others try and claim they are L-3. The irony here is that these supposed “low cost” units are actually VERY expensive for what they are.
Just so there is no confusion, MOD Armory does NOT sell any AEO/ANV tubes and the cost of full factory spec units is only slightly higher than these supposed bargains.
This level of understanding of the product is not required by resellers selling only catalog items. However when selling “lower cost” units to customers they should have an understanding of what they are selling and be able to properly inform their customers of what they are buying. I’m sure anyone would agree with that.
Being an OEM we are kept abreast of product and information changes and developments as they happen. Resellers are often claiming to have the inside track and be behind product development this is nothing more than marketing, and often the root of product confusion.
