Rifle Scopes Vortex\Leupold\NF...Which???

[Davemuzz]

I've been reading for some time, shooting for a while longer, and have hunted most of my life. I have usually hunted with open sights or simply a 3-9X scope. I will admitt that I am a "fan" of Leupold's as last year I had Leupolds custome shop install target turrets on a VX-I along with a custom elevation turret. One shot on my first out west trip....one Antelope!! Nice!!

However, I'm looking to "upgrade" from my current "Chevy" work-horse type glass to maybe a more comfy model. Now, I will use this glass for three types of shooting. The two "Primary" types are for hunting Pa. groundhogs with shots ranging from 100 to as much as 600 yards. The second "Primary" use will be shooting from a bench at our local gun club in friendly competitions for bragging rights. This is usually at 300 yards, but can be longer if we go to other ranges.

And my third use is the annual (hope to be annual and not every other year) out west hunting trip where shots can be 400 to 800 yards long.

OK....so, I'm considering the Vortex Viper Rifle Scope 30mm Tube 6.5-20x 50mm Side Focus Fine Plex Reticle...$460.

And: Leupold Mark 4 Long Range Tactical M1 Rifle Scope 30mm Tube 6.5-20x 50mm Side Focus TMR Reticle...$1,300.

And: NIGHTFORCE NXS 5.5-22X56MM...$1,766.

Now, Honestly....I don't have all of the specs on each scope yet, but I think each one has a FFP which I want, and I want all of the turrets to be in MOA (because I understand that).

So....the "dilemma" isn't so much the $$$$, as it is "do I really need to spend more than the $500 to get what I want?"

Now, don't get me wrong....it's not like I have $100 bills hanging out of my pockets to toss around on glass....but if I don't "need" to spend an additional $800 to move up to a Leupold...then I won't.

And...just as important...am I comparing "apples to apples" when I'm looking at these scopes? Maybe I'm looking at the wrong Vortex scope when comparing it to the other two? Help there would be appreciated too.

Feedback please?

Thanks......"The NOOB"

Oh...shooting a 6.5x55 Swede in a modern action Savage...varmint barrel....pushing a 140 Berger 2725fps.

 

[Dibby]

Re: Vortex\Leupold\NF...Which???

Disclaimer: I am not an expert either, but have been looking at scopes for the past few weeks and lurking here for some time.

That said, none of those scopes are FFP. The Vortex Viper PST line has some FFP options, NF only offers it on their NXS F1 3.5-15, and to get FFP on the Leupold, you will be going with their ERT line (not LRT) and be paying quite a bit more.

FFP or no, based on what I gather from your post, you won't be shooting for rankings or cash prizes...I say go with the Vortex. Vortex is highly regarded by most that use them and is a good value when considering price vs. features/performance. Plus they have a no-questions warranty policy.

I am sure others will give you more detailed answers.

Good luck with your decision.

 

[Gregrachelle]

Re: Vortex\Leupold\NF...Which???

I agree with Dibby, If you want to use a reticle to range your targets, FFp is the way to go. and the comparable to your Nightforce and Leupold mark4 would be the Vortex Pst, not the viper. you pay more for FFp (first focal plane), you also pay more for Mil Mil, you pay more for anything over a 30mm tube, and more for anything over a 50mm lens, more for a zero stop, more for illuminated reticle.

The best advise that was given to me was "write down what features you want most and can't live without, then look at the scope that will give you those options". then you can see what you need to pay to get those options. You will get the most options for your money with the vortex and they have from what i have seen the best warranty out there.

Hope this helps.

 

[BCP]

Re: Vortex\Leupold\NF...Which???

How much are you comfortable with spending and do you want illumination, second or first focal plane, MOA or Mil adj, 15x or 20+ power etc...

Basically describe your ideal scope and what you are willing to spend to get it...

 

[Davemuzz]

Re: Vortex\Leupold\NF...Which???

BCP (Yeah...you know me)...it's a real old joke between me and some old friends....the "Yeah you know me" line...so just say "HUH???" and roll with it.

But on the scope...I want" FFP, MOA, 20 Pwr, I see no real use for an Illuminated reticle. I have a few 1-4X with Illumination but these are for nite hunting fox with .17 Fireball calibers.

So....that's really "what I want."

I guess this conversation is really steering me towards the Vortex. The Leupold appears to be overkill in terms of $$$$ as does the Niteforce. After all, I'm not shooting anything for competition. I'm just a legend in my own mind!!

Dave

 

[Senderofan]

Re: Vortex\Leupold\NF...Which???

I'm not sure that you really need FFP....just MHO. I've tried to use ranging reticles for shooting P dogs ( With two different NF scopes) and I can tell you it's much easier and quicker to use a laser rangefinder....same when I'm hunting big game in Big Sky country. Just want to make sure you understand that the reticle changes size with magnification and takes some time to figure things out...a Mildot Master helps...but extra fiddling around.

Here are a couple of scopes you might want to check into...if you can use SFP:

http://www.sightron.com/index.php?action=view_document&did=1201816362&cat_id=6&id=168

http://www.sightron.com/index.php?action=view_document&did=1201816362&cat_id=6&id=171

If you are trying to compare the regular Viper ( non PST ) to the NXS or Mark 4....it's not apples to apples...thus the huge price difference. The NXS, Mark4 and up are completely different in terms of how robust they are...tend to have better turrets and glass etc. I have a regular Viper and it's a very nice scope for the money. My Sightron S III's compare very closely with the NightForce glass...which will be better than the plain Viper.

If your hunting trips are all ones of a lifetime....guess I'd spend the extra money on the NXS or similar scope. You need something that is built like a tank and not going to let you down in the field. If not...there are many great options for you.

Good Luck,

Wayne

PS,

The S III's listed above should be in the $800 range new.

 

[ctmyers67]

Re: Vortex\Leupold\NF...Which???

of the scopes listed above, like it has been said none are ffp, i would choose the nightforce, the quality is good, their customer service is great, if you do want a reasonably priced ffp, look at the vortex razor hd, retails around 2 grand, but can be picked up through jay at sport optics for cheaper, i`ve been told, and their customer service is outstanding

 

[jtkite]

Re: Vortex\Leupold\NF...Which???

I've got the NF 5.5-22x56 and love it, but every time I shoot I wish I had gone FFP

 

[Davemuzz]

Re: Vortex\Leupold\NF...Which???

Yeah.....but if I'm reading the reviews right....and for what I want (and my hunting trips are not "once in a lifetime...I plan on going to Casper WY either every year, or every other year) and the rest of the time the scope will be split between shooting groundhogs and paper at the bench, maybe with the scope set at the lower power settings (yes....I am changing my mind here) an Illum. reticle may very well be a good idea.

So, with all that, the Viper PST 30mm tube 6-24 50mm may very well fit the bill.

The reviews seem to indicate it's a "tough" scope.

I think (now that I'm getting some help and input from you fine people) that this Vortex PST would be comparable to the Leupold Mark 4 M1 6.5-20 scope.

And the price difference of $750 is pretty significant between the two.

Am I comparing apples to apples with these 2 scopes?

Dave

 

[Ring]

Re: Vortex\Leupold\NF...Which???

the mk4 has non-matching turrets... stay away...

 

[Dibby]

Re: Vortex\Leupold\NF...Which???

Pay more for M5 turrets...they match.

 

[majohnson2]

Re: Vortex\Leupold\NF...Which???

While waiting on my 6.5CM barrel to be fitted, I thought it would be a good time to try out some of the components I purchased to complete my Creedmoor. I pulled out my R700 in 223 and installed my new Vortex PST. For a stock 700 it has always shoot good groups. Having quality scope sure made a difference. At 200 yds even with the wind I could manage 1" to an 1 1/4" groups, which is the best I've ever been able to maintain. Changing the scope made a noticeable and apparent improvement.

A wise man once told that the scope is your only link to the target. I know that scope prices can go into stratosphere. For $1000 Vortex PST is tough to beet and might even surpass some of the more expensive scopes. I think there is a good reason Vortex are popular on this board.

 

[sawman556]

Re: Vortex\Leupold\NF...Which???

I think you'll be disappointed in a FFP.

The Sightron SIII SS 6-24x50mm LRMOA would be a great choice for what you're looking to do.

 

[BCP]

Re: Vortex\Leupold\NF...Which???

My suggestions are super sniper 5-20 (1050 w/coupon 4000), Bushnell HDMR w/GAP reticule from libertyoptics, Vortex PST 6-24 SFP or FFP in MOA from wherever you can get it (Libertyoptics or Cameralandny), or Sightron 6-24 MOA reticule (2nd focal scope).

I would probably get the super sniper or bushnell. Most likely bushnell because I like to hold over for my shots and it has a reticule tailored for that.

If you aren't going to be holding off and want to dial everything at known ranges a 2nd focal reticule might be better choice.

 

[Davemuzz]

Re: Vortex\Leupold\NF...Which???

I found this link to a PDF file that has an excellent visual explanation of the difference between a FFP and the SFP.

I'm more of a "visual learner" and have to see it to really understand it. This PDF file really helps.

So, after reading this, I'm pretty much sold on a FFP scope. It just makes sense to my mass of grey matter.

Dave

 

[UNCLEDAN25]

Re: Vortex\Leupold\NF...Which???

Nightforce all the way....if you got the $$$ buy the right scope the first time, you wont be disappointed!

 

[BBsteel]

Re: Vortex\Leupold\NF...Which???

I had a FFP and for my style of primarly hunting with my rigs and shooting "come ups" at known ranges thanks to a range finder I prefer SFP. I sold my PST some time ago. Not a bad optic but I had a NightForce as well so I was spoiled. These 2 optics shouldn't even be compared in the same thread as they are in completely different leagues.

When shooting comp out to 300 with your buddies your FFP reticle could handicap you a bit due to it's thickness (PST for sure) when trying to hold groups.

A 3.5-15x50 NXS with NP-R1 reticle is a great scope for the use requirments you have listed. Just my opinion. There's a few in the Optics For Sale section right now.

 

[Davemuzz]

Re: Vortex\Leupold\NF...Which???

The 3.5-15 NSX isn't really going to do me much better than my current 4.5-12 VX-1 with target turrets. More magnification with a minimum of up to 20-X is really what I need when shooting groundhogs at 500 yards, or quarters at 300 or 400 yards. Going from 12-X to 15-X isn't going to cut it.

Again, I'm pretty much sold on a FFP. the SFP are fine for maybe target shooters, or those who don't use the hash marks to make judgements. (Animal chest heights, Animal rack heights)

I looked thru a Bushnell 6500 4.5-30 today at the range. Nice 'n clear.....but there's that SFP issue to deal with.....Plus, they are $900. But hey....they have "rainshield" one 'em!! (Isn't that the same as the stuff you can buy at the auto parts store for your windshield??)

I keep coming back to the Vortex for $1,000....or the Niteforce for $2,000, or the Leupold for $1,700.

I can buy a whole rifle or Smitty for the $700.

I think the responses I've received from this post has pushed me in the right direction. Thanks guys....you have been a great help!!

DAve

 

[regatoni5]

Re: Vortex\Leupold\NF...Which???

leupold ER/T. I was in the same boat you're in, I was looking for a good scope but finally gave up on compromise. I was told by MANY experienced shooters (both great competition shooters and snipers)
-"spend as much as your bank account will let you on glass"
-"put more into your glass than you did your rifle"
yeah, there is room for interpretation but you get the overall jest of it. That being said, I've played around with the nightforce scopes at work and they are GREAT. Leupold scopes are awesome too based on the use i've put one through in the desert.(MK4 10x40) If you're looking for FFP a LEUPOLD ER/T 6.5-20x50 M5 would be perfect [i just ordered a 6.5-20x50 M5A2]. granted you'll be shelling out some cash, you're still getting a great quality scope for a few hundred dollars cheaper than the nightforce F1. remember you'll be paying for the fancy reticle too. but YMMV! good luck!

 

[Davemuzz]

Re: Vortex\Leupold\NF...Which???

Well, after a lot of consideration....and thinking of not only what I shoot.....but "how" I shoot, and the fact that when I shoot anything over 300 yards (as I'm pretty good at guessing out to 300 yards) I use a rangefinder, I "canned" the idea of a FFP.

So, I "bit the bullet" and went with the Vortex Viper PST 6-24X 50mm, EBR 1 MOA turrets.

I should have it next week and have it mounted on my Savage bull barrel 6.5x55 Swede and do some "test" short range 300 yard shooting to see how it does.

Dave

 

[rustydog32]

Re: Vortex\Leupold\NF...Which???

leupolds they are much lighter get one with a 30mm tube and 45mm objective to draw in more light

 

[ddavis]

Re: Vortex\Leupold\NF...Which???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Davemuzz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, after a lot of consideration....and thinking of not only what I shoot.....but "how" I shoot, and the fact that when I shoot anything over 300 yards (as I'm pretty good at guessing out to 300 yards) I use a rangefinder, I "canned" the idea of a FFP.

So, I "bit the bullet" and went with the Vortex Viper PST 6-24X 50mm, EBR 1 MOA turrets.

I should have it next week and have it mounted on my Savage bull barrel 6.5x55 Swede and do some "test" short range 300 yard shooting to see how it does.

Dave </div></div>

Good choice on the Vortex. For a hunting rifle you will really like it. The Nightforce weighs about 10 oz. more than either Vortex or Leupold.

 

[SLO]

Re: Vortex\Leupold\NF...Which???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: regatoni5</div><div class="ubbcode-body">leupold ER/T. I was in the same boat you're in, I was looking for a good scope but finally gave up on compromise. I was told by MANY experienced shooters (both great competition shooters and snipers)
-"spend as much as your bank account will let you on glass"
-"put more into your glass than you did your rifle"
yeah, there is room for interpretation but you get the overall jest of it. That being said, I've played around with the nightforce scopes at work and they are GREAT. Leupold scopes are awesome too based on the use i've put one through in the desert.(MK4 10x40) If you're looking for FFP a LEUPOLD ER/T 6.5-20x50 M5 would be perfect [i just ordered a 6.5-20x50 M5A2]. granted you'll be shelling out some cash, you're still getting a great quality scope for a few hundred dollars cheaper than the nightforce F1. remember you'll be paying for the fancy reticle too. but YMMV! good luck! </div></div>

After researching for a month or so and buying 4 different scopes, I just purchased the same exact Leupold as you did. I can't wait to use it. I didn't have much of a choice in manufacturer...just model. Leupold is a customer of mine and I go shooting with those guys so I can't have a competitor's scope. But even if that wasnt an issue, I'd still go with Leupold. They make an outstanding product and from experience, their customer service is as good as I have ever seen.

 

[Davemuzz]

Re: Vortex\Leupold\NF...Which???

I am a true dye in the wool Leupold fan. All of my other scopes (four of 'em) are Leupold's and I like 'em all. But to get one that was going to do what this Vortex was going to do was going to cost me $1,700.

Well, I'll know in six months if I made the right choice or not. I'll know just by shooting and using it. And should I decide I made a bad choice, you will see it up for sale.

Dave

 

[sideforce]

Re: Vortex\Leupold\NF...Which???

The Vortex PST line is a good value

 

[samnev]

Re: Vortex\Leupold\NF...Which???

I have all 3 scopes brands mentioned. But when the rubber hits the road Nightforce is always my choice.

 

[Davemuzz]

Re: Vortex\Leupold\NF...Which???

Mounted the new Viper PST to my 6.5 Swede Savage. I did buy a SFP scope and based upon my range time the glass is clear, the reticle is thin & crisp, & adjusting the turrets is easy and right on the money when I printed out a ballistic chart with my bullet & it's velocity average as summarized from my chronograph.

I think I'll be very happy for the $750 outlay of cash!!!