If I had an AR upper with an eight inch barrel but a 16.5 inch handguard. Would it be an SBR? This would be shot only w/can.
- Thread starter tmpohuski7
- Start date
Re: NFA shroud vs barrel length
A little Googlefu for you:
( http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/national-firearms-act-short-barreled-rifles-shotguns.html )
Q: What is the registered part of a Short Barreled Rifle (SBR) or Short Barreled Shotgun (SBS)?
A: While a receiver alone may be classified as a “firearm” under the Gun Control Act (GCA), SBRs and SBSs are classified in totality under the National Firearms Act (NFA). <span style="font-weight: bold">A firearm that meets the definition of a SBR consists of a rifle that has a barrel less than 16 inches in length</span>. A SBS consists of a shotgun that has a barrel less than 18 inches in length. The serialized receiver is recorded for registration in the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record (NFRTR).
A little Googlefu for you:
( http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/national-firearms-act-short-barreled-rifles-shotguns.html )
Q: What is the registered part of a Short Barreled Rifle (SBR) or Short Barreled Shotgun (SBS)?
A: While a receiver alone may be classified as a “firearm” under the Gun Control Act (GCA), SBRs and SBSs are classified in totality under the National Firearms Act (NFA). <span style="font-weight: bold">A firearm that meets the definition of a SBR consists of a rifle that has a barrel less than 16 inches in length</span>. A SBS consists of a shotgun that has a barrel less than 18 inches in length. The serialized receiver is recorded for registration in the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record (NFRTR).
Re: NFA shroud vs barrel length
What if the hanguard is permanently attached to the upper and barrel? Pinned or welded.
What if the hanguard is permanently attached to the upper and barrel? Pinned or welded.
Re: NFA shroud vs barrel length
I asked the same question about a year ago, just turned into a big mess.
I asked the same question about a year ago, just turned into a big mess.
Re: NFA shroud vs barrel length
Here is the link to the thread I started. PM me if you have any questions.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...197#Post2490197
Here is the link to the thread I started. PM me if you have any questions.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...197#Post2490197
Re: NFA shroud vs barrel length
See, I tend to agree that this would count. The point of regulating SBR's is not because they operate different but because they are short, concealable. Having the rail/handguard permanently attached makes them not concealable. A question/letter to the ATF would offer some degree of assurance but they are so wishy washy on that stuff who know. The real question is who makes a 16" or longer rail?
See, I tend to agree that this would count. The point of regulating SBR's is not because they operate different but because they are short, concealable. Having the rail/handguard permanently attached makes them not concealable. A question/letter to the ATF would offer some degree of assurance but they are so wishy washy on that stuff who know. The real question is who makes a 16" or longer rail?
Re: NFA shroud vs barrel length
From ATF ( http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5320-8/atf-p-5320-8-chapter-2.pdf ) :
2.1.3 Rifle. A rifle is a firearm designed to be fired from the shoulder and designed to use the energy of an explosive in a fixed cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled barrel for each single pull of the trigger. <span style="font-weight: bold">A rifle subject to the NFA has a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length</span>.
The ATF procedure for measuring <span style="font-weight: bold">barrel</span> length is to measure from the closed bolt (or breech-face) to the furthermost end of the <span style="font-weight: bold">barrel</span> or <span style="font-weight: bold">permanently attached muzzle device</span>. Permanent methods of attachment include full-fusion gas or electric steel-seam welding, high-temperature (1100°F) silver soldering, or blind pinning with the pin head welded over. Barrels are measured by inserting a dowel rod into the barrel until the rod stops against the bolt or breech-face. The rod is then marked at the furthermost end of the barrel or permanently attached muzzle device, withdrawn from the barrel, and measured.
Doesn't sound like they care if the handguard is 16 feet long, if the barrel is under 16" it's an NFA item.
From ATF ( http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5320-8/atf-p-5320-8-chapter-2.pdf ) :
2.1.3 Rifle. A rifle is a firearm designed to be fired from the shoulder and designed to use the energy of an explosive in a fixed cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled barrel for each single pull of the trigger. <span style="font-weight: bold">A rifle subject to the NFA has a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length</span>.
The ATF procedure for measuring <span style="font-weight: bold">barrel</span> length is to measure from the closed bolt (or breech-face) to the furthermost end of the <span style="font-weight: bold">barrel</span> or <span style="font-weight: bold">permanently attached muzzle device</span>. Permanent methods of attachment include full-fusion gas or electric steel-seam welding, high-temperature (1100°F) silver soldering, or blind pinning with the pin head welded over. Barrels are measured by inserting a dowel rod into the barrel until the rod stops against the bolt or breech-face. The rod is then marked at the furthermost end of the barrel or permanently attached muzzle device, withdrawn from the barrel, and measured.
Doesn't sound like they care if the handguard is 16 feet long, if the barrel is under 16" it's an NFA item.
Re: NFA shroud vs barrel length
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fastex500</div><div class="ubbcode-body">From ATF ( http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5320-8/atf-p-5320-8-chapter-2.pdf ) :
2.1.3 Rifle. A rifle is a firearm designed to be fired from the shoulder and designed to use the energy of an explosive in a fixed cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled barrel for each single pull of the trigger. <span style="font-weight: bold">A rifle subject to the NFA has a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length</span>.
The ATF procedure for measuring <span style="font-weight: bold">barrel</span> length is to measure from the closed bolt (or breech-face) to the furthermost end of the <span style="font-weight: bold">barrel</span> or <span style="font-weight: bold">permanently attached muzzle device</span>. Permanent methods of attachment include full-fusion gas or electric steel-seam welding, high-temperature (1100°F) silver soldering, or blind pinning with the pin head welded over. Barrels are measured by inserting a dowel rod into the barrel until the rod stops against the bolt or breech-face. The rod is then marked at the furthermost end of the barrel or permanently attached muzzle device, withdrawn from the barrel, and measured.
Doesn't sound like they care if the handguard is 16 feet long, if the barrel is under 16" it's an NFA item. </div></div>
Exactly. The ATF isn't in the business of "common sense." I know what you are wanting to do, and to stay within the law, you will need to have the shroud permanently attached to the barrel itself. It shouldn't be too difficult for a good gunsmith to do.
-Dan
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fastex500</div><div class="ubbcode-body">From ATF ( http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5320-8/atf-p-5320-8-chapter-2.pdf ) :
2.1.3 Rifle. A rifle is a firearm designed to be fired from the shoulder and designed to use the energy of an explosive in a fixed cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled barrel for each single pull of the trigger. <span style="font-weight: bold">A rifle subject to the NFA has a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length</span>.
The ATF procedure for measuring <span style="font-weight: bold">barrel</span> length is to measure from the closed bolt (or breech-face) to the furthermost end of the <span style="font-weight: bold">barrel</span> or <span style="font-weight: bold">permanently attached muzzle device</span>. Permanent methods of attachment include full-fusion gas or electric steel-seam welding, high-temperature (1100°F) silver soldering, or blind pinning with the pin head welded over. Barrels are measured by inserting a dowel rod into the barrel until the rod stops against the bolt or breech-face. The rod is then marked at the furthermost end of the barrel or permanently attached muzzle device, withdrawn from the barrel, and measured.
Doesn't sound like they care if the handguard is 16 feet long, if the barrel is under 16" it's an NFA item. </div></div>
Exactly. The ATF isn't in the business of "common sense." I know what you are wanting to do, and to stay within the law, you will need to have the shroud permanently attached to the barrel itself. It shouldn't be too difficult for a good gunsmith to do.
-Dan
Re: NFA shroud vs barrel length
If the shroud is attached to the barrel it is fine. Like an SBX barrel 12.5" and 4" of shroud.
If the shroud is attached to the barrel it is fine. Like an SBX barrel 12.5" and 4" of shroud.
