Armalite Super SASS group issues!

[JBear]

Hey guys, new to the board, been shooting for a long time, but month ago picked up Armalite Super SASS in 308 and topped it with a Nightforce NXS 5.5-22x56 optic and an atlas bipod if they ever get back orders caught up. Anyway to the point, I have really been struggling to get a decent group out of the gun, possibility it may be me but just trying to cover all my bases. Ive seen a few threads about precision AR 10 rifles are tough to "drive". My groups tend to wonder shots, shoot 2 or 3 okay then trail one off and its funny but I described it to friends as looking like hitting it with a shotgun as far as the grouping being all over and read another post that said the same.

Just really getting into this precision long distance rifle action, but I have been doing some reloading for the rifle as well as using factory match ammo.

Ammos tried:
Black hills 168gn match
Remington 150gn cheap stuff
Black hills 175gn match
my reloads using varied powder amounts of IMR 4895 from 41.6 up to 43.1 on 168gn Hornday Amax bullets


Ran all these options thru gun and cant seem to get a good group, just looking for some advice or a direction to head twards.

Oh, gun was bought used but never fired and sold back to my gun dealer, guy who bought it does this with guns all the time from what I understand. Also the NXS is mounted via a Warne Ramp 30mm scope mount.

Love some thoughts, seems like this site has got some real knowledge, look forward to many more posts.

thanks.

 

[317millhand]

Re: Armalite Super SASS group issues!

How large are your groups? These things normally shoot around MOA. Is it on the correct gas setting? Also, if you have another optic and rings available give it try to rule out mounting issues.

 

[JBear]

Re: Armalite Super SASS group issues!

At 100 yards from sandbags I am getting roughly 2 inch groups, that is measuring from outer most edge of hole to outer most edge of furthest hole. Shot pretty close to that on bout 4 different occasions, never gotten any better than that. I have a ruger m77 mark ii that has a decent optic on it, that was my next plan was to mount that optic and give it a try. I can shoot very good groups with the ruger and I got almost no money in it.

 

[Bennyboy]

Re: Armalite Super SASS group issues!

What kind of ammo you using? Barrel twist? You may be on the right track checking the optic--check the mount too. That rifle should easily punch 1/2" @ 100 yards.

Edit--I missed some of that which answered my question. I would also investigate the mount.

 

[Bennyboy]

Re: Armalite Super SASS group issues!

How much experience do you have behind that rifle??

 

[JBear]

Re: Armalite Super SASS group issues!

Behind this rifle I have very few hours, behind AR platforms, thousands of rounds. All 5.56 but this rifle is fairly new to me.

Ammo is above, 20 inch barrel with a 1 and 10 twist

 

[jimmykm21]

Re: Armalite Super SASS group issues!

My advice is just keep shooting .
I own the same rifle. I know some one in thread said it should shoot 1/2 groups
easy but mine never has. It shoots just under 1" with factory ammo FGMM 175 grain.
My own load is varget 43.5 with 175 SMK's .

It will shoot fairly close to 1/2 MOA with my load. AR10's are a different beast
to get proficient at shooting well.

Like I said just keep shooting.

 

[JoeZ]

Re: Armalite Super SASS group issues!

I shoot my SASS unsupported with a sling. From the prone I'm getting 1.5 moa at 300yd with DAG surplus ball. When I measure a group its center to center on the hits, not outside to outside. Its a small difference but with 30 cal its .3 of an inch.

 

[BattleAxe]

Re: Armalite Super SASS group issues!

This may sound counter to what you're used to but...

If you pull the trigger too slow waiting for the break to "surprise" you it may induce movement. I get the best/most consistent results when I pull the trigger slightly more aggressively than I would on a bolt gun, yet still keep it smooth. Trigger pull is likely the most important skill to master on an AR10 platform because of the weight of the moving parts...very unforgiving and very different than an AR15.

Pulling an AR10 trigger is like hitting the most difficult club in your golf bag...you have to perform a multitute of tasks to perfection every single time or you'll shank the shot.

 

[JBear]

Re: Armalite Super SASS group issues!

Yeah. Thats pretty much my plan. Like to have my atlas bipod soon. Cheapie blackhawk does ok but reviews about the atlas seem outstanding. My groups arent terrible but like it was stated just cause its a 1/2 moa to 1 moa gun dont mean i can do it right away. Ill keep on it. Keep you guys posted. Thanks for all the help

 

[JSTARSZ]

Re: Armalite Super SASS group issues!

Driving 308 AR's is about as hard as it gets for me. I shoot a DPMS SASS and I can get 3 or 4 rounds going great and then I will throw one or two and wreck the group. As BattleAxe stated, there is a lot going on with shooting the 308 semi's and it doesn't take much of a change in any of the principles to throw the rounds and change your POA/POI 1 MOA or more. Just keep practicing and you will get better or you can get better at blaming the rifle. The golf analogies for me works as I see my shooting as my golf - I am not a professional due to my lack of consistency.

 

[samnev]

Re: Armalite Super SASS group issues!

I experienced much the same thing when I first got my DPMS SASS but groups eventually got better as I became more familiar with the rifle. Now always under an inch at 100 yards.

 

[mrhog]

Re: Armalite Super SASS group issues!

If you are useing the factory trigger;change it or have it worked on. That was the best thing I did to my SASS.
Also try 175gr. SMKs. My rifle was very load pickey. It now prints sub moa.
Maybe turning down the gas will help some.
Followthrough is very important with these rifles.

 

[cz777]

Re: Armalite Super SASS group issues!

maybe its the muzzle devise bring over torqued ...take it off ,shoot it and retorqued to 25 foot pounds with rockset ...i hope this helps

 

[TenZero]

Re: Armalite Super SASS group issues!

Two things. First, use FGMM as control ammo. That stuff shoots pretty good in almost anything, so that should eliminate a variable from the process. Second, if you haven't done so already, find someone else who is a proven AR10 driver, and have them shoot it for you. If it groups better with them driving, there's your answer, you just need more time on the gun. Remember, the biggest variable is always the shooter.

 

[JBear]

Re: Armalite Super SASS group issues!

Good advice, I am gonna stick with her, try and get all my problems out and work on driving it better. Dont know anybody who has some gun time on AR style precision rifles but the range I work for run by a retired seal. When i first mounted the optic I had him and his brother also a retired seal shoot the gun off the bench. We were all boggled as to why none of us could get a group. Worse then than now, I removed scope, moved mount forward and adjusted eye relief on optic to put me to the point I am at now. Gonna have them try to shoot another group for me. My guess is its mostly me after reading on here but Id love a 2nd opinion.

thanks for all the help guys.

 

[newguy2k3v2]

Re: Armalite Super SASS group issues!

I had an Armalite SASS for a while and had pretty much identical issues. I tried all sorts of powder and bullet combos. The only time I could get it to shoot decent was if I turned the gas block to between the suppressed and unsuppressed settings, effectively turning it into a straight pull bolt rifle. I modded the cylinder in the gas block with my own port to restrict the gas some and it did better for me but in the end I still sold it.


FWIW
Now I have a LMT MWS and ran across a Noveske 21" barrel for cheap. I put a PRI adjustable gas block on it and I've been getting <1moa out of it with relative ease and minimal load workup.

 

[JBear]

Re: Armalite Super SASS group issues!

So you actually had to modify the gas system to pull the accuracy into this rifle? Would it be a warrenty issue, I am starting to get concerned that I bought a lemon, and thinking I should have held out for the REPR that I originally wanted.

 

[kevinchen912]

Re: Armalite Super SASS group issues!

great post

 

[banjobob]

Re: Armalite Super SASS group issues!

Both my mine and my dads ar10ts were sent back to armalite twice, both times they confirmed they shot out of the 1 moa guarantee and replaced the barrels twice on each gun. The third barrels have shot better but not great. I really wish the gap10 was available when we bought them several years ago. Good luck, I'll not buy armalite again.

 

[NYresq]

Re: Armalite Super SASS group issues!

I have both an Armalite 10T and a POF 308 and when both were new I had a hard time getting decent groups with either one. I am what most would consider very experienced behind the trigger, and could not group either one worth a crap.
tried a few different tricks with springs, stoning the triggers, and turning off the gas on the POF, but no joy.

Finally I replaced the two stage national match trigger in the AR-10T with a single stage drop in from Timney, and it became a new rifle. Swapped it to the POF and lo and behold, both are solid 1.5 moa shooters. They both now have a timney 3lb single stage and both will print a 4" group on demand at 300 yards.

I have single stage triggers in all my other rifles and I guess I couldn't get used to the two stage pull, so I would try a drop in unit from one of the known trigger manufacturers and see if that improves anything, along with a couple sandbags. sometimes the bipod is not your friend when you are trying to shoot decent groups, better off with a couple bags under the rail instead of a bipod.