head separation and primer unifroming?

[timelinex]

So I've finally started some steps of the reloading process while I'm waiting for everything to come in! I don't have anyone to actually show me in person, so I'm just going off a reloading manual and the countless hours of reading on here.. So I will have many questions...


My first concern is what looks like head separation in almost all my brass. I have taken a picture of two cases with it. They are from southwest's 175 Winchester load. They have been fired just once in my savage. The load is not too hot for my rifle, I don't have any kind of bolt sticking issues or anything else.
Is this head separation? Its not too obvious in the cases, but its definitely a small bump.

Is this brass unusable, or is it ok? How is it even possible, if this is just a factory load shot from the first time.

My next question is about primer uniforming. I went through and uniformed all the primer pocket. The thing with it is that it seems that in 9 out of 10 of the cases it really only uniforms the outside of the pocket. It doesn't matter how much longer I drill at it or how card I press, so thats not the issue. Here is a picture of the pocket after uniforming:

Here is a picture of the pocket after ultrasonic cleaning:

You can see almost all the carbon got cleaned off, and not it almost looks like the pocket is beveled towards the flash hole. Its definitely a slightly different amount of bevel in each case though and it isn't smooth like the uniformed part. Am I doing something wrong, or is it just how the brass is?


Any advice or help on either of the matters will be appreciated.

Thanks

 

[BuzzBoss915]

Re: head separation and primer unifroming?

Doesn't look anything like case head separation, to me. It looks like a normal once fired and resized case.

Second question. That is what the primer pocket uniforming tool does. But, what is wrong with your flash hole? It looks like somebody cleaned it up with a hedge trimmer. BB

 

[timelinex]

Re: head separation and primer unifroming?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BuzzBoss915</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Doesn't look anything like case head separation, to me. It looks like a normal once fired and resized case.

Second question. That is what the primer pocket uniforming tool does. But, what is wrong with your flash hole? It looks like somebody cleaned it up with a hedge trimmer. BB </div></div>

Ah ok, so then its normal for there to be tiny lines in the brass like that then. Great.

As for the second question... Thats exactly what I dont know! My steps so far has been.. Decap, use redding inside flash hole deburr tool, use redding pro pocket uniformer( in a drill) and then ultrasonic clean. So I'm not sure why its only uniforming the outer part of the pocket and leaves a ring by the flash hole! Should I be ultrasonic cleaning before uniforming, or what else could I be doing wrong? All those steps seem pretty easy and fundamental.... I've tried it on a bunch of other brass as well tha tI have picked up at the range to practice on and it does the same thing. Is it possible that the redding tool is slightly out of spec and doesn't cut deep enough?

This is what the set I did looks like.. It doesn't look too bad when your not zoomed in close into the pocket:

 

[TexIndian]

Re: head separation and primer unifroming?

There is a range of acceptable depths for primer pockets. I forget offhand but it's just a few thousandths allowance under SAAMI specs. It's been my experience that some brands of tools cut a little deeper than some others, but they are usually all within spec tolerances. I can't say I've ever used a Redding uniformer. It may very well be that the pocket in your brass has a portion that your tool can reach and other portions that the tool can't reach. No real problem. If it bothers you, try a Sinclair uniformer. They tend to cut a little deeper than most other brands. With every brand of brass I've ever tried, they leave a shiny bottom with 100% coverage. Just be careful what you wish for. To get the Sinclair cutter bottomed out, it takes a lot more mashing and drilling.

The important thing is that your uniformer is cutting around the outer portion. That's where the rim of you primers seat. The whole point of uniforming is to get that outer part cut uniformly, so you are good to go.

Fired brass often has that little ridge down by the case head. After full-length resizing, you will also see a little shiny ring down there. No problem. I had to chuckle to myself because I had the very same concerns 30 years ago when I was working on my first brass. The manual talked about separation rings and I had the same reaction you did.

 

[BuzzBoss915]

Re: head separation and primer unifroming?

No to the last question.

You can forget the power tools for the primer pocket. I think you have a concept problem. Your objective is not to be sure the bottom of the pocket is completely flat. It is that the primer will be seated to the same depth in every case. It is not an appearance issue.

As to the comment
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ah ok, so then its normal for there to be tiny lines in the brass like that then. Great.</div></div>

This is a problem I see so often on Snipers Hide. New shooters read about obscure problems and think case head separation is rampant. It's not. They think dies are frequently out of spec, brass is "bad" and lots of other conditions that you hardly ever see in a lifetime of handloading. Just one opinion. BB

 

[timelinex]

Re: head separation and primer unifroming?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: OldTex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is a range of acceptable depths for primer pockets. I forget offhand but it's just a few thousandths allowance under SAAMI specs. It's been my experience that some brands of tools cut a little deeper than some others, but they are usually all within spec tolerances. I can't say I've ever used a Redding uniformer. It may very well be that the pocket in your brass has a portion that your tool can reach and other portions that the tool can't reach. No real problem. If it bothers you, try a Sinclair uniformer. They tend to cut a little deeper than most other brands. With every brand of brass I've ever tried, they leave a shiny bottom with 100% coverage. Just be careful what you wish for. To get the Sinclair cutter bottomed out, it takes a lot more mashing and drilling.

The important thing is that your uniformer is cutting around the outer portion. That's where the rim of you primers seat. The whole point of uniforming is to get that outer part cut uniformly, so you are good to go.

Fired brass often has that little ridge down by the case head. After full-length resizing, you will also see a little shiny ring down there. No problem. I had to chuckle to myself because I had the very same concerns 30 years ago when I was working on my first brass. The manual talked about separation rings and I had the same reaction you did.</div></div>

Thanks for the very informative reply! So from what I understand I'm good to go then. I really don't care how 'pretty' the pockets are.. As long as I'm not giving up accuracy by it only reaching the outer 50%, I'm all good with it.

As for the separation line, I'm glad to hear its normal. Every piece of literature I read really stresses to check the brass for separation lines, so considering I don't know what one actually looks like in real life, when I saw the minor lines I freaked out. That would be 400+ cases down the drain!

Thanks again for your help.

 

[Paladin2147]

Re: head separation and primer unifroming?

Case head separation is generally caused by excessive head space. And that is generally caused by pushing back the shoulder too far on sizing. Knock the shoulder back about .002-.003 for a bolt gun or .003-.004 for a gas gun. Use tools that you can use to measure your sizing die setup and worries about case head separation should not materialize. If you don't have the tools. Sinclair International is your friend.

 

[heavy boolitt]

Re: head separation and primer unifroming?

just curious, what end are you using the flash hole tool in? itjust looks like you went at it from the primer side.my daughter did this to me for about 30 pieces of brass .

 

[ChrisGarrett]

Re: head separation and primer unifroming?

Case head separation.

Chris

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: head separation and primer unifroming?

Read through this. A pending head separation will leave a ring groove inside the lower portion of the case wall. The paperclip test will find it.

Greg

 

[Beef82]

Re: head separation and primer unifroming?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ChrisGarrett</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Case head separation.

Chris </div></div>

Doesn't get any clearer than this without actually splitting.
The paperclip test should be in bold print in the front of every manual.

 

[Paladin2147]

Re: head separation and primer unifroming?

A picture is always worth a thousand words.