Suppressors Suppressor/Gunsmith question
- Thread starter John L
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Re: Suppressor/Gunsmith question
I had this request once. Ask him if he is a class 3 dealer if he says yes and is (check his credentials) than just send it to him with only a COPY of you form 1 or 4.
If he says not, both of you would be taking a great risk not worth it in my books.
What kind of suppressor is it?
if it has a QD than he should only need that. If it is a thread on find out if the rear cap unscrews like mine does on the gemtech quicksand and just send him that.
I had this request once. Ask him if he is a class 3 dealer if he says yes and is (check his credentials) than just send it to him with only a COPY of you form 1 or 4.
If he says not, both of you would be taking a great risk not worth it in my books.
What kind of suppressor is it?
if it has a QD than he should only need that. If it is a thread on find out if the rear cap unscrews like mine does on the gemtech quicksand and just send him that.
Re: Suppressor/Gunsmith question
Just FYI, the temporary conveyance of an NFA item to a licensed gunsmith is NOT considered an actual NFA transfer.
Now, if you want to be super safe and have a little (maybe a lot) of time to wait, (they're dragging their ass on everything now), you could submit and wait for approval on a Form 5. However I have never seen a Form 5 in 12+ years nor do I know of anyone who requires them for service... but it is an option.
Many refinishers, engavers, smiths, etc. I know are just 01/07 FFL holders and have no active SOT.
Your smith would/does need a copy of your Form 1/4 and he/she needs to be SURE they log it in and out of their acquisition/disposition book.
Other than that, you should be good to go.
Only caveat I'd throw is to be sure the smith is in a suppressor friendly state - not one of the crazy Attorney General made his own personal opinion BS locations.
Good Luck
Drez
Just FYI, the temporary conveyance of an NFA item to a licensed gunsmith is NOT considered an actual NFA transfer.
Now, if you want to be super safe and have a little (maybe a lot) of time to wait, (they're dragging their ass on everything now), you could submit and wait for approval on a Form 5. However I have never seen a Form 5 in 12+ years nor do I know of anyone who requires them for service... but it is an option.
Many refinishers, engavers, smiths, etc. I know are just 01/07 FFL holders and have no active SOT.
Your smith would/does need a copy of your Form 1/4 and he/she needs to be SURE they log it in and out of their acquisition/disposition book.
Other than that, you should be good to go.
Only caveat I'd throw is to be sure the smith is in a suppressor friendly state - not one of the crazy Attorney General made his own personal opinion BS locations.
Good Luck
Drez
Re: Suppressor/Gunsmith question
Drez is correct.
Edit to add: I got to thinking about this and have to throw this in...why is it your gunsmith wants the can? He should be threading to the specs provided by the suppressor manufacturer and checking with the proper gauges, not using the suppressor as a guide or check. Just my 2 cents.
Drez is correct.
Edit to add: I got to thinking about this and have to throw this in...why is it your gunsmith wants the can? He should be threading to the specs provided by the suppressor manufacturer and checking with the proper gauges, not using the suppressor as a guide or check. Just my 2 cents.
Re: Suppressor/Gunsmith question
I think most smiths would prefer to have the silencer in hand. I know APA wanted mine.
I think most smiths would prefer to have the silencer in hand. I know APA wanted mine.
Re: Suppressor/Gunsmith question
I never claimed to know it all but are you guys saying that you can send a can to a smith that doesn't have an SOT. If the ATF showed up for his audit and he had a can in the shop that wasn't on a form 4 to him I think he would be fucked.
Am I wrong? Like I said I don't know it all. If he had a SOT all he would need is a repair letter and copy of the form 4 but with no SOT I didn't think he could have it at all.
Form 5 is tax free transfer to an agency. I've filled out many but never one to a smith to work on a can.
I never claimed to know it all but are you guys saying that you can send a can to a smith that doesn't have an SOT. If the ATF showed up for his audit and he had a can in the shop that wasn't on a form 4 to him I think he would be fucked.
Am I wrong? Like I said I don't know it all. If he had a SOT all he would need is a repair letter and copy of the form 4 but with no SOT I didn't think he could have it at all.
Form 5 is tax free transfer to an agency. I've filled out many but never one to a smith to work on a can.
Re: Suppressor/Gunsmith question
I realize it nice to have a the can in hand for fitting, but if a lone home shop machinist like myself can cut class 3A threads why cant your smith.
Were not talking about a special oversize reciver thread thread, its standard for a reason for christ sakes
I realize it nice to have a the can in hand for fitting, but if a lone home shop machinist like myself can cut class 3A threads why cant your smith.
Were not talking about a special oversize reciver thread thread, its standard for a reason for christ sakes
Re: Suppressor/Gunsmith question
I'd say send em the thread specs instead. You'll both be covered.
I'd personally rather have it cut to a spec versus fit for just a can. Then a brake, can or thread protector will screw on instead of just the can.
I'd say send em the thread specs instead. You'll both be covered.
I'd personally rather have it cut to a spec versus fit for just a can. Then a brake, can or thread protector will screw on instead of just the can.
Re: Suppressor/Gunsmith question
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RayDog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I never claimed to know it all but are you guys saying that you can send a can to a smith that doesn't have an SOT. If the ATF showed up for his audit and he had a can in the shop that wasn't on a form 4 to him I think he would be fucked.
Am I wrong? Like I said I don't know it all. If he had a SOT all he would need is a repair letter and copy of the form 4 but with no SOT I didn't think he could have it at all.
Form 5 is tax free transfer to an agency. I've filled out many but never one to a smith to work on a can.
</div></div>
I was told by one NFA branch lady that this could be done utilizing a Form 5. Basically, they want to know where the suppressor is. I never ended up doing it, but that is what I was instructed to do.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RayDog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I never claimed to know it all but are you guys saying that you can send a can to a smith that doesn't have an SOT. If the ATF showed up for his audit and he had a can in the shop that wasn't on a form 4 to him I think he would be fucked.
Am I wrong? Like I said I don't know it all. If he had a SOT all he would need is a repair letter and copy of the form 4 but with no SOT I didn't think he could have it at all.
Form 5 is tax free transfer to an agency. I've filled out many but never one to a smith to work on a can.
</div></div>
I was told by one NFA branch lady that this could be done utilizing a Form 5. Basically, they want to know where the suppressor is. I never ended up doing it, but that is what I was instructed to do.
Re: Suppressor/Gunsmith question
I know the smith you are referring to and he wanted the same thing from me luckily I was able to send him just the core of my sparrow since it is not the registered part
I know the smith you are referring to and he wanted the same thing from me luckily I was able to send him just the core of my sparrow since it is not the registered part
Re: Suppressor/Gunsmith question
Simple answer - if the gunsmith wants the device to give you the best fit, just send it. If you don't want to do that, just understand you might not have the best fit possible. In fact, don't be quick to blame the gunsmith if your device doesn't mount to the host properly. Even following the manufacturer's "specifications" is no guaranty for proper fit. If you send the device, simply include a copy of your approved form and ship it the same way you did your host.
Long answer from the sleep deprived guy if you care to read more rambling details...
If the gunsmith is wanting the device, it is likely because he wants to cut as tight a thread as possible for that specific device. The tighter, more precise fit helps to prevent the device from loosening under use. You can always have your gunsmith simply cut the threads to a looser tolerance, just do so knowing their could be fit issues.
I can't tell you how many suppressors (or suppressor adapters) I've seen from even the largest suppressor manufacturers that not only were not to their published specifications on the tightness of the thread geometry but are off regarding tenon length (which is the length of the thread on your host). Just a couple weeks ago we had two .30-caliber suppressors from a manufacturer whom a lot of folks on this site really seem to like. The suppressors had serial numbers that were less than 20 from each other. Neither suppressor had threads that were in spec and both devices were very different (i.e. one was way on the loose end and the other way on the tight end). Just last week we threaded a host for a pistol suppressor. The customer didn't want to even provide us with the piston from his suppressor and wanted us to just thread it to fit one of the pistons we had on hand (we stock that particular suppressor). Yep, you guessed it - we threaded to one of the pistons we had but when the customer showed up to get his rifle his piston was WAY too tight and wouldn't fit. In that case the customer choose to just buy the piston we used for test fitting because he has experienced too many suppressors loosening under use and did want a precise fit.
Sending the device isn't necessarily a bad thing and is often requested for good reason.
As mentioned you can send your device to your licensed gunsmith.
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/gunsmiths.html
The ATF suggests you use a Form 5 to transfer the item to the gunsmith and then again back to you. However, it is NOT required and rarely done that way these days. Many years ago everyone filed Form 5s. The only Form 5s people tend to use these days is to government agencies as tax exempt transfers. For example, a local police department would have their suppressors transferred to them on a Form 5. If you decide to go the Form 5 route, understand the wait times for Form 5s are similar to the wait times for approval of Form 3s.
Lastly, the ATF changes its mind in rulings all the time. It keeps life interesting to say the least.
Hope this helps some.
Mark
Simple answer - if the gunsmith wants the device to give you the best fit, just send it. If you don't want to do that, just understand you might not have the best fit possible. In fact, don't be quick to blame the gunsmith if your device doesn't mount to the host properly. Even following the manufacturer's "specifications" is no guaranty for proper fit. If you send the device, simply include a copy of your approved form and ship it the same way you did your host.
Long answer from the sleep deprived guy if you care to read more rambling details...
If the gunsmith is wanting the device, it is likely because he wants to cut as tight a thread as possible for that specific device. The tighter, more precise fit helps to prevent the device from loosening under use. You can always have your gunsmith simply cut the threads to a looser tolerance, just do so knowing their could be fit issues.
I can't tell you how many suppressors (or suppressor adapters) I've seen from even the largest suppressor manufacturers that not only were not to their published specifications on the tightness of the thread geometry but are off regarding tenon length (which is the length of the thread on your host). Just a couple weeks ago we had two .30-caliber suppressors from a manufacturer whom a lot of folks on this site really seem to like. The suppressors had serial numbers that were less than 20 from each other. Neither suppressor had threads that were in spec and both devices were very different (i.e. one was way on the loose end and the other way on the tight end). Just last week we threaded a host for a pistol suppressor. The customer didn't want to even provide us with the piston from his suppressor and wanted us to just thread it to fit one of the pistons we had on hand (we stock that particular suppressor). Yep, you guessed it - we threaded to one of the pistons we had but when the customer showed up to get his rifle his piston was WAY too tight and wouldn't fit. In that case the customer choose to just buy the piston we used for test fitting because he has experienced too many suppressors loosening under use and did want a precise fit.
Sending the device isn't necessarily a bad thing and is often requested for good reason.
As mentioned you can send your device to your licensed gunsmith.
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/gunsmiths.html
The ATF suggests you use a Form 5 to transfer the item to the gunsmith and then again back to you. However, it is NOT required and rarely done that way these days. Many years ago everyone filed Form 5s. The only Form 5s people tend to use these days is to government agencies as tax exempt transfers. For example, a local police department would have their suppressors transferred to them on a Form 5. If you decide to go the Form 5 route, understand the wait times for Form 5s are similar to the wait times for approval of Form 3s.
Lastly, the ATF changes its mind in rulings all the time. It keeps life interesting to say the least.
Hope this helps some.
Mark
