Re: Vortex Razor w/ Mil Ret VS. Leupold MK4 w/ TMR?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Polytech</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm looking to get a spotter with a milling reticle. The two contenders are the Vortex Razor HD w/ ranging eye piece, and the Leupold MK4 spotter with the TMR reticle. I'm currently running a vortex razor on my rifle with the ebr-2b reticle so I'm looking for something to be similar to this for ease of use.</div></div>
Since you want a spotter with a reticle similar to the EBR-2B in your Razor on your rifle and Leupold doesn't offer anything remotely similar to the EBR-2B that pretty much narrows it down, doesn't it?. The closest reticle USO has is probably the Gen 2 XR, but I'm not sure if they offer it for their Fieldscope. The Gen 2 XR has MIL and half-MIL hold points and a "Tree" for holds and is MIL-based but thats' where the similarities end.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Polytech</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This will see most of its use as a spotter on unknown distance steel targets, and as a spotter for precision competition (ie: Mammoth sniper challenge team matches) Use as a spotter for the range and on hunts will just be a bonus.</div></div>
Personally I would go with the Leupold Mark 4 (or Golden Ring 12-40X60mm retrofitted with a reticle) for your intended use because in my experience a compact, lightweight, straight-through scope that is easily hand-held is easier and faster to use in the field for moving targets. Since the Leupolds' are variable power you can dial the magnification down to increase your FOV if and when you need to, which obviously isn't possible with a fixed-power Eyepiece. And in addition to the Mildot, Leupold offers the TMR, the P4F, and Horus reticles in the Mark 4 and as retrofits for the Golden Ring.
The Razor is larger and heavier than the Mark 4 and the Golden Ring 12-40X[60mm] scopes so it isn't as easy or convenient to hold in-hand while spotting. On a tripod equipped with a pistol grip its' a wash. However, if the larger footprint and heavier weight of the Razor don't bother you I highly recommend an <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Optolyth Compact</span></span>. <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">
Optolyth Compacts</span></span> are available in both "Straight" and "Angled" models in both HD (Fluorite glass) and non-HD versions. Optolyth offers 30X and 45X MIL-based Eyepieces with <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">rotating reticles</span></span>. <span style="font-weight: bold">The rotating reticle allows the reticle to be oriented to be "square" with the target area regardless of the spotting scope's orientation withon it's "collar", which is something that cannot be done with reticles that do not rotate.</span> In my experience my [80mm] Optolyth S80 HD Compact's image quality is better than the Razor 20-60X[85mm] HD's image quality.
AFAIK the rotating reticle is a feature unique to <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">
Optolyth</span></span>. The kicker is that <span style="font-style: italic">with Eyepieces attached to their respective scopes</span> the 80mm Optolyth Compacts are no longer than the 65mm Zeiss (the Optolyth 80mm Compacts are actually shorter than the 65mm Swarovskis') as well as being much shorter and a little lighter than the Swarovski 80mm and the Zeiss and Razor 85mm scopes. For an detailed "review" of the Optolyth S80 (angled) Compact, read my <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">"
Optolyth S80 HD Compact Spotting Scope"</span></span> write-up.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Polytech</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have also considered adding the USO spotter to the running, but the reviews that I have read for it seem to be 50/50. I know that USO's are bomb proof, but I probably will not be able to get my hands on an optic prior to purchase.</div></div>
The problem with USO is their Quality Control. Even though USO has become ISO 900<span style="font-style: italic">X</span> Certified, from what I have seen their products are still of inconsistent quality. It seems that quite a few scopes have mechanical issues out-of-the-box that take several trips back and forth before the scope(s) are 100%, some have clarity issues due to a lens/some lenses not being polished clean. My SN-3 3.2-17X44mm Lo-Pro ERGO had so-so clarity, and a greenish film was obvious on the reticle lens when the illumination was switched-on higher than "4". It also had a minor burr on the magnification ring threads that could be felt between 9X and 12X.
Don't get me wrong - USO sometimes produces scopes that are GTG the first time, and USO offers something no other scope manufacturer offers: highly customizable scopes at competitve prices. <span style="font-style: italic">Low volume</span> and/or <span style="font-style: italic">"one-off"</span> units are hard to do on custom products. However, the sweetness of a custom scope at a good price is often negated when weighed against the high incidence of scopes that require multiple return trips to USO to fix issues that should have kept the scopes from leaving the USO facility in the first place. That may seem harsh, but its' an accurate assessment. As the saying goes <span style="font-style: italic">"It is what is it, and thats' all that it is."</span>
People often talk about USO having the best Customer Service. Its' possible that USO's <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">post sale</span></span> Customer Service may be the best - they'll fix nearly any issue(s) no questions asked. From what I've seen Vortex is way up there, and I had excellent service with fast turnaround when I had a turret conversion on a PMII 5-25X[56mm] done by S & B's Service Center in the States. However, to me <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">the very best Customer Service is from the company whose scopes rarely, if ever - need to be worked-on due to factory defect(s).</span></span>
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Note to John Williams III and his crew at USO:</span></span> USO is an American company based in California and I'm pulling for you, but you need to show me and everyone else that USO can and will make every scope <span style="font-style: italic">right</span> the first time.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Polytech</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have been able to us a bushnell spotter, but with the lack of current availablility, and quality of the optic it seems like something I would upgrade quickly so I think it would be better to just get something much better off the bat.</div></div>
My brother has one of the original Bushnell Excursion FFP Tactical Spotting Scopes. When initailly released, these spotters had a high incidence of defects, and a high percentage of the units sold through Liberty Optics and SWFA (probably others as well) were returned under warranty. My brother got lucky and his doesn't have any of the problems that affected many of them. Two problems that I remember off the top of my head were spots, i.e. dust on the reticle, and the reticle "jumping" when magnification was changed.
If you happened to get a good one, it was a great deal and the price/performance/features ratio was super. Decent clarity and a FFP MIL reticle at around $350.00 street price at the time was awesome.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Polytech</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So what are the Hide's opinions on these spotters? </div></div>
If you've read my post thus far you already know my answers. I didn't vote because the manner in which you plan to use the optic(s) within your particular usage scenarios can make a big difference in the usability of each optic for said usages, and voting without knowing the particulars really doesn't make sense.
Keith
