• Watch Out for Scammers!

    We've now added a color code for all accounts. Orange accounts are new members, Blue are full members, and Green are Supporters. If you get a message about a sale from an orange account, make sure you pay attention before sending any money!

AR-15 barrel length????

Bunnypunter

Bunnypunter

6.5pewpew
Full Member
Minuteman
Feb 25, 2012
242
19
Northern Utah
Hey Guys,

I'm new to the "Hide" and this question may have been hashed out before so I appoligize. I am looking to rebarrel my 16" RRA AR-15. I'm thinking about going with an 18" Criterion HBAR barell. Has anyone used this before and how were your results? I would like to extend the range and accuracy of the gun. I also shoot this suppressed so going with a true varmint barrel is out of the question, esp where this is also my pack around 'yote gun. I want to stay light but accurate. Ya know the best of both worlds. Any feed back would be helpful. Thanks.
 
Re: AR-15 barrel length????

If your running suppressed I would go with a 16" but a higher quality barrel to increase accuracy. If your gun isnt free floated, I would do that first. I gained a good amount of accuracy by just free floating the barrel. Probably best bang for for buck.
 
Re: AR-15 barrel length????

I like WOA. I have a few of their barrels and they never disappoint. I have a 20" 5.56 SDMR, 20" 6.8SPC and a 16" 5.56 match. I like the 20" barrels since they get the most range and velocity. I don't know much about running supressors though. Good luck and keep us posted.
 
Re: AR-15 barrel length????

18" WOA ro 18" Noveske. Can't go wrong with either.
 
Re: AR-15 barrel length????

Thanks y'all. I've been looking into the WOA barrels and they look like a great deal for the quality. I'll keep ya posted as I make a decision and get this project rolling.
 
Re: AR-15 barrel length????

The 16" may be the better all around barrel length. An 18" isn't going to give you a whole lot more in muzzle velocity and range. Also, in my experience if you go with a quality barrel manufacturer, you are not going to notice a difference in accuracy between a 16" or 18" barrel.
 
Re: AR-15 barrel length????

I second the White Oak Armament (WOA) good stuff at reasonable cost. Ask any HP or XTC competitor.
 
Re: AR-15 barrel length????

How about being able to stalilize a heavier bullet? Will the 18" do a better job in say 1-8 twist vs a 16" with the same twist?
 
Re: AR-15 barrel length????

Not really. If you look at a stability formula the velocity has very little impact on stability, it's mostly twist and the length of the bullet. as speed goes up rpm does goes up to and that helps to stabelize the bullet, but nose pressure on the bullet also increases negating most of the increased stability
 
Re: AR-15 barrel length????

Bunnypunter,

A 1-7" is not necessary in an AR. The longest bullets that will fit in the mag only require a 1-8" twist. If you feel like single feeding sometimes then get the 1-7". If the barrels cost the same, it's really no difference in the 1-8" or 1-7" when feeding from a mag, except you can single feed super long bullets with the tighter twist.

Yes, you can shoot 55's with no problem through a 1-7" or 1-8". However, the lower quality bullets won't be as concentric and therefore not as accurate. But it hurts nothing to shoot lighter faster bullets through a tighter twist.


Anymore, the theory that too tight of a twist is bad has gone down the drain. With the quality of bullets today, the 'non-concentric' issues you got with older bullets doesn't throw accuracy off near as much as it used to. Meaning, it's not a myth, we just have better quality that doesn't affect bullet flight nearly as much as it used to.

As far as length of barrel you have to consider that the longer the barrel with a slower burning powder will get you more velocity. A longer barrel will also work better with a suppressor. The caveats to those are, there are suppressors that work better with shorter barrels, and the powder they use will get you better velocity with a short barrel than a long barrel.
And, with an AR, the biggest issue of all is the gas tube length. That has a lot to do with velocity. Because you don't want to use a slow powder to get more velocity like you would with a bolt gun. It's not so bad with the 5.56/.223 Rem, but any of the bigger calibers in the AR-15 platform have that issue.
My pick for where you are at is a 20-24" barrel. Rifle length gas tube. Get the paperwork and a suppressor if you want, but don't worry about spooking the bunnies. The sound of the bullet snapping past them is going to scare them more than the 'bang' of the rifle.
 
Re: AR-15 barrel length????

The AR I use in NRA HP and LR is compliant with Service Rifle division rules. Its 20 inch SS Douglas 1 in 7 twist barrel has gotten me results across the course and at LR as good as I have ever had. I shoot 53 grain Sierra's from this rifle in reduced course tournaments; and, on the MR-31 target, I have always shot 97% or higher. For me, I think the 1 in 7 has no downside and is a plus for LR.
 
Re: AR-15 barrel length????

Thanks sandwarrior, that makes alot of sense. I'm already shooting suppressed so going 20" will be a bit much. I think the 1-8 on an 18" will be the ticket. Thanks for your input and wisdom. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bunnypunter,

A 1-7" is not necessary in an AR. The longest bullets that will fit in the mag only require a 1-8" twist. If you feel like single feeding sometimes then get the 1-7". If the barrels cost the same, it's really no difference in the 1-8" or 1-7" when feeding from a mag, except you can single feed super long bullets with the tighter twist.

Yes, you can shoot 55's with no problem through a 1-7" or 1-8". However, the lower quality bullets won't be as concentric and therefore not as accurate. But it hurts nothing to shoot lighter faster bullets through a tighter twist.


Anymore, the theory that too tight of a twist is bad has gone down the drain. With the quality of bullets today, the 'non-concentric' issues you got with older bullets doesn't throw accuracy off near as much as it used to. Meaning, it's not a myth, we just have better quality that doesn't affect bullet flight nearly as much as it used to.

As far as length of barrel you have to consider that the longer the barrel with a slower burning powder will get you more velocity. A longer barrel will also work better with a suppressor. The caveats to those are, there are suppressors that work better with shorter barrels, and the powder they use will get you better velocity with a short barrel than a long barrel.
And, with an AR, the biggest issue of all is the gas tube length. That has a lot to do with velocity. Because you don't want to use a slow powder to get more velocity like you would with a bolt gun. It's not so bad with the 5.56/.223 Rem, but any of the bigger calibers in the AR-15 platform have that issue.
My pick for where you are at is a 20-24" barrel. Rifle length gas tube. Get the paperwork and a suppressor if you want, but don't worry about spooking the bunnies. The sound of the bullet snapping past them is going to scare them more than the 'bang' of the rifle. </div></div>
 
Re: AR-15 barrel length????

Hmm, that adds a bit of thought to the puzzle. I always thought that going to a 1-7 would neg affect light grain accuracy. Thanks for your input. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The AR I use in NRA HP and LR is compliant with Service Rifle division rules. Its 20 inch SS Douglas 1 in 7 twist barrel has gotten me results across the course and at LR as good as I have ever had. I shoot 53 grain Sierra's from this rifle in reduced course tournaments; and, on the MR-31 target, I have always shot 97% or higher. For me, I think the 1 in 7 has no downside and is a plus for LR. </div></div>
 
Re: AR-15 barrel length????

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bunnypunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hmm, that adds a bit of thought to the puzzle. I always thought that going to a 1-7 would neg affect light grain accuracy. Thanks for your input. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The AR I use in NRA HP and LR is compliant with Service Rifle division rules. Its 20 inch SS Douglas 1 in 7 twist barrel has gotten me results across the course and at LR as good as I have ever had. I shoot 53 grain Sierra's from this rifle in reduced course tournaments; and, on the MR-31 target, I have always shot 97% or higher. For me, I think the 1 in 7 has no downside and is a plus for LR. </div></div></div></div>


I forgot to mention my barrel is chambered for .223 not 5.56. The barrel was smithed by CLE. I've used barrels from Frank White at CLE for the last decade. I like them, I like them a lot. Feed ramps are exclusive to barrel extension and barrel is milled with flats to accomodate windage adjustable a-frame. Just select a standard a-frame for fixed carry handle rifle, or an F marked a-frame for flattop receiver.
 
Re: AR-15 barrel length????

Too fast of a twist can effect accuracy, but it is not likely to be near as negative as too slow of a twist, unless you're shooting very light, thin jacketed varmint bullets which can and do disintegrate if spun too fast. 1:7 doesn't show any real advantages until bullet weights surpass 80gr, but it doesn't typically show any disadvantage either, this choice in reality could probably come down to price and availibility in the profile and length you desire. The velocity difference between 16" and 20" is fairly substantial with most loads so there may be a bit to gain at 18" I'm gonna try it, just waiting on my backordered parts. Of course since I have my barrel I now doubt any manuveurability advantage of two less inches exists, I'm not hanging a can so balance is a non-issue. Not sure if mid or rifle length gas is the way to go, I went rifle, kinda curious if the shorter dwell time will cause cycling issues. Also since it was mentioned it takes an awfully long barrel for excess length to start costing velocity regardless of powder in normal supersonic rifle loadings.
 
Re: AR-15 barrel length????

FWIW,

The military uses 1-7 barrels in order to stabilize the extreemly long M856 tracer bullets.
Military documentation also lists the 55 grain M193 bullets as being less accurate in 1-7 barrels and specifies that M193 not be used if other ammunition is available.
 
Re: AR-15 barrel length????

thx 4 this info. am new here, but try reading bout 2-3 times a week to increase knowledge base. will keep this in mind when comes time to rebarrel my ar's!
 
Re: AR-15 barrel length????

Okay, Lets summarize some covered points here:

1. 1-7" will pretty much stabilize any .224 bullet on the market today.
2. 1-8" will stabilize anything you can run through a mag. (using safe reloading practices)
3. In spite of having a 1-7" or 1-8" twist, lighter bullets of today with much better standards than the bullets of the pre-90's will stabilize and produce accuracy much better. This is because of todays bullet making standards that are much more concentric than they used to be ten, and more-so, twenty years ago. Sterling shows this by shooting 53 gr. SMK's very successfuly (along with a number of other very successful competition shooters I might add) from his 1-7" twist barrel. Great barrel, great bullets, great ammo, great results.
4. For very long range work with an AR ( and many have proven to be quite accurate) you can single feed the uber long bullets in a 1-7" twist. You <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">cannot</span></span> stabilize the uber long bullets in the 1-8" twist.

If it were up to me, and the cost was the same, go with the 1-7" twist as you get the best of both worlds.
 
Re: AR-15 barrel length????

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lonmower</div><div class="ubbcode-body">so faster twists will eat up low grain bullets??</div></div>

Faster twists will digest low grain bullets. It's because today's bullets are made using better procedures than they were 20 years ago. If the bullet is concentric, the extra twist won't make it wobble as bad. Over-rotation of bullets that weren't concentric (in regards to center of spin{CS} vs. center of gravity{CG}) would throw the bullet off course. That is why in the past typical twists in .30 cal were 1-12" instead of mostly 1-10" like we see today. The bullet spins fast enough to stabilize, but not so fast that a non-concentric bullet would be thrown off target that bad. A faster spin would throw the bullet off. Now that tolerances for CG vs. CS can nearly bring the two exactly together, it won't be thrown off. Make sense?
 
Re: AR-15 barrel length????

Double Tap makes an 80gr load (Nosler Custom Competition Bullet) which supposedly will feed through a magazine. I have not tried it yet, does anyone know if a 1-8" will stabilize it?
 
Re: AR-15 barrel length????

thx!! a little over my head, but am learning! do appreciate u stepping it down a little 4 me. i'll ask u questions l8r, if ur interested in answering. thx so much!!!
 
Re: AR-15 barrel length????

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dark Horse</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Double Tap makes an 80gr load (Nosler Custom Competition Bullet) which supposedly will feed through a magazine. I have not tried it yet, does anyone know if a 1-8" will stabilize it? </div></div>

I shoot 80gr out of 1:8 twist all the time. Lots and lots of people do.

That nosler bullet is longer than a standard 77 and nosler recommends 2.360" for COAL so I doubt it'll shoot from the mag.
 
Re: AR-15 barrel length????

I'm curretnly loading my Hornaday V-max at 2.250 COAL and that is a nats ass off from touching the mag front. However, they are producing sub-moa at 100 yds. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dark Horse</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Double Tap makes an 80gr load (Nosler Custom Competition Bullet) which supposedly will feed through a magazine. I have not tried it yet, does anyone know if a 1-8" will stabilize it? </div></div>

I shoot 80gr out of 1:8 twist all the time. Lots and lots of people do.

That nosler bullet is longer than a standard 77 and nosler recommends 2.360" for COAL so I doubt it'll shoot from the mag. </div></div>
 
Re: AR-15 barrel length????

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bunnypunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm curretnly loading my Hornaday V-max at 2.250 COAL and that is a nats ass off from touching the mag front. However, they are producing sub-moa at 100 yds. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dark Horse</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Double Tap makes an 80gr load (Nosler Custom Competition Bullet) which supposedly will feed through a magazine. I have not tried it yet, does anyone know if a 1-8" will stabilize it? </div></div>

I shoot 80gr out of 1:8 twist all the time. Lots and lots of people do.

That nosler bullet is longer than a standard 77 and nosler recommends 2.360" for COAL so I doubt it'll shoot from the mag. </div></div></div></div>

If you are talking 75 or 80 gr. {?}, it would be A-max, not V-max. The V-max's only go up to 60 gr. Any V-max will handily load magazine length. The upper end A-max's will not. Also, I can stabilize both 75 and 80 gr. A-max's in my 1-8" twist. I just can't feed them in from a mag.

FWIW, I don't know anything about the new Nosler CC 80 gr. bullets. But, I load their 77's all the time. And for them to add three grains without changing much on the ogive would be no big deal. However, if they changed the ogive much, that bullet would run out of room to load in an AR-15 magazine in very short order.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

A
"Medium" length B5 CPS stock with LAW folder on AR-10?
Replies
3
Views
203
AwkwardlySocial
A
L
Someone set me straight on barrels
Replies
37
Views
1K
Cascade Hemi
C
M
AR Barrels
Replies
11
Views
433
brassninja
B
carbonbased
Is the ARMALITE M-15 Competition brake pinned?
Replies
10
Views
190
oldrifleman
oldrifleman
Bluegrass Colonel
AR-15 lite build questions
Replies
16
Views
510
MSTN
MSTN
Top Bottom
Back