Rifle build help

[TexasOutlaw]

First things first...I've been on the forum for awhile now just haven't made any posts yet because I haven't had any questions due to rifle builds or shooting in particular. I've picked up on alot about long distance shooting from books and this forum but still have much to learn. Another reason I haven't posted much is cause I don't have a rifle of my own (due to college) except my dad's 5R Milspec. I have just graduated from college and start my new job monday and would like some input on my near future rifle build. My curse tho is that I'm a lefty and have shot right handed rifles all my life.I have called every gun shop in my area that I can think of for a Rem 700 SPS Varmint which no one has one or can't find one. So my next option is a custom rifle....sorry for the rant but here is what I have figured so far....

.308
GAP Templar action
Bartlein Barrel 18" or 20" (haven't decided yet)
Mcree Precision stock (possibly dipped in multicam)
Jewel Trigger
Surefire Muzzle Break QD (future suppressor)

Now for the question part:

1. I know this will probably be the stupid question but the Templar action I know is specs relate to a Rem 700 so will it fit properly to the Mcree stock?

2. What twist rate would yall recommend? I shoot 175 SMK and some 165gr, was looking for somewhere around 1:10 1:11.25 (5R rifleing).

3. If I decide to have the stock dipped should I order a bare metal stock or order one thats already coated to act almost like a primer in a way. I just dont know how well the dip holds up.

And please anything yall would like to add or any helpful info would be greatly appreciated. The rifle will mostly be used for hunting and the occasional target shooting. I would like to eventually get into some compatitions since now I will have time to attend a few.

 

[Blaktastic]

Re: Rifle build help

I do think the templar action will fit into a Mcree stock. On Mcree's website it lists these acions that will fit into the stock-- Remington 700, Lawton 7000, Stiller TAC30 & Predator, Surgeon 591 & RSR, HS Precision Pro 2000. All of these action are considered remington 700 "clones". On GAP's website I think they are trying to be modest by saying that it has "similar specs", I actually think it is a straight up clone of most of the specs that actually matter. As for the twist, if it were me I would probably go with 1:11.25 if you are going to be strickly sitcking to 175 and 165s but if you went with a 1:10 it wouldn't really hurt anything and you would always be able to drift up the the heavier bullets if you choose to in the future.

 

[Equitum]

Re: Rifle build help

Hey and welcome to SH. I'm pretty new myself, and I set out with the same goal you have. I wouldn't rule out the Remington 700 SPS Varmint just yet- one of the easiest ways to get a rifle, at the best price, is to buy it online and pay the FFL transfer fee. That's what I'm doing with my SPS Varmint, and it will run me $577 plus shipping plus the $40 FFL transfer fee (which will vary from dealer to dealer- mine just happens to be on the high end).

I don't think you can really go wrong with either 1:10", 1:11.25" or the 1:12" twist rate. They really just respond better to different loads. If you're going to shoot 168 or 175 gr, though, you do probably want the 1:12". It handles them really well, especially the 168gr. The 1:11.25" does really well with 175gr, but you'd have to get a custom barrel for that. The SPS Varmint straight out of the factory only comes in 1:12", but the SPS Tactical AAC-SD has a 20" pre-threaded barrel with a 1:10" twist; the SPS Tactical comes with a 1:12" twist with the same 20" barrel.

Before you worry about the stock or especially the trigger (Remington triggers come out of the factory pretty well-adjusted and can be self-adjusted pretty easily), I'd get the right glass and base/rings. The factory stock on the Remington 700s is pretty bad mold-injected plastic, but if you buy a good scope, it'll last a long time, and buying a bad scope will cause you tons of frustration.

When it comes to stocks, I personally like the B&C Medalist Tactical A2 and A5 styles (depending on your budget). B&C also can handle lots of paint jobs on their stocks, so maybe that could be something to look in to.

What I ended up with my build, which cost me pretty much exactly $1000 is:

26" Remington heavy bull barrel contour
Factory X-Mark Pro Trigger
Factory stock (if I had a few hundred more, I'd get the B&C Medalist Tactical A2 or A5 style stock)
Falcon Menace 4-14x44 FFP mil/mil
Leupold Standard Base and Rings

But yours will differ, since you seem to be looking for a shorter barrel.

Good luck with your build!

 

[TexasOutlaw]

Re: Rifle build help

Thanks for the input guys...Yeah I'm pretty sure the action is almost identical to a Rem 700 and I think the 5R Milspec has a 1:11.25 twist atleast that is what I have been told. I know the 175s I have loaded shoot right at 1/2" MOA at 100 yards and do really well at 600 (max distance at the range). I think a 1:11.25 would be that nice happy medium.

As for the SPS Varmint I haven't given up yet so to speak but I have called every shop around from where I live and no luck. I did however find a lefty in a .223 but I want a .308 and everyone has said the samething nothing in stock and nothing where they get the guns from. I have even started asking for a .243 or 7mm 08 just so I could build a .308 off that action but no luck yet. There is a gun show in Houston I think May, 25-27 that I'm going to so maybe there I will find a used left or a Varmint. Who knows just gotta be patient lol.

 

[TonyAngel]

Re: Rifle build help

First, it seems like you put some thought into the components that you are putting into this build. It doesn't look like you're compromising on much.

My two builds have been on stock Remington 700 actions. I don't really shoot benchrest and didn't think that I would realize the full advantage of going with a custom action. But hey, if you have the money to spend, why not? As long as getting the custom action doesn't mean that you're going to have to compromise on the scope or mount setup.

I can't comment on the stock, but can comment on the twist rate. My first build was around a Krieger 1:12 twist. It was, of course, a tack driver, with 168s and such. The heavier bullets were hit and miss. It would do pretty well with Sierra 175s, but Hornady A-Max, not so much. I think that maybe the 1:12 twist was just right on the borderline for the heavier/longer projectiles.

My second build was built around a heavy varmint profile Krieger 1:10 barrel. Again, a literal tack driver; but with everything I've put through it. 155s, 168s and 175s.

This is a sampling of some of the groups that I shot during load development...

The rifle is obviously capable of more accuracy than I am.

My rifle...

is really nothing special. Remington 700 action, Holland bolt handle, Krieger 1:10 barrel and a Shilen trigger at 2lbs in an HS Precision stock. My gunsmith, Don Geraci, put it together.

I just posted that because I wanted to give you an idea of what can be done, without spending a lot of money. If I had gone with a custom action, I really don't know that I would have spent the money on the 5.5-22X Nightforce and rail.

As for the 1:11.25 twist barrels, I've only had experience with one and it wasn't good at all. I can't remember what the make was, so I'm not going to guess. I believe that it was just an uncommon fluke, but it still left a bad taste in my mouth. I know that many swear by that twist rate; but I don't regret having gone with the 1:10.

I would, however, advise that you go as long as is practical for you. I went long and with the heavy varmint profile for a few reasons. The first is that if you screw up the crown, cutting some off won't make much difference. The second is that the heavy varmint profile (please forgive my lack of proper vocabulary) has a long thick portion at the breech end of the barrel.

The importance of this is that when you shoot a barrel out (it looses its accuracy), it's usually the throat that's fried. With this profile, I'll be able to have my smith knock some barrel off at the chamber end and recut the chamber, thereby increasing barrel life. With this profile, I should be able to get a few set backs out of it.

So...good luck with the build.

 

[Equitum]

Re: Rifle build help

Where I found my SPS Varmint was Buds Gun Shop online, but with that, you will get a 26" long barrel with 1:12" twist- it's the only way it comes.

If you really want the 1:11.25" twist, you should buy a 5R. It comes with the same Remington action, the same contour on the barrel, just a different twist, and it comes with a HS Precision stock. It'll run you about $1025.

If you really just want that twist and don't really want the HS Precision stock, you should just go with a custom barrel.

My advice: Either get the SPS Tactical AAC-SD with the 1:10" twist on the 20" barrel or the SPS Varmint with 1:12" twist on a 26" barrel. Both should do what you're looking for, with slightly better specific applications.

I like the 26" barrel because you have extra barrel to work with if you change your mind (want to shorten, recrown, etc.) and the 1:12" twist isn't bad, but suited for lower loads than the faster 1:10" twist.

About not finding the rifle in any local gunshops... It's tricky to find the exact rifle you need in just the stores you have around, usually, especially for a lefty. You can order the exact gun you want from online and have it shipped to your FFL for around the same cost, and usually even better, than buying directly from the local dealer.

Just my $0.02.

 

[TexasOutlaw]

Re: Rifle build help

Tony, that is a nice rifle you got there and some damn good groups. The original plan was to get a lefty remington in a .308 and build off that action in due time but til then I was just gonna buy a good scope weither a leupold, nightforce or vortex (I'm really wanting a vortex razor hd it seems to be the total package for the price) and learn the rifle, build some loads. Then upgrade trigger and stock I know that those things there can go along way in practicing with any rifle or practice period. Unfortunatly I haven't found a lefty remington.

Equitum, I've also checked Buds, Impact guns, and Gallery of guns and no luck for a left handed remington 700 and most of the places I have called or went to talk to plus friends that have FFLs checked and re-checked for me and still no luck. Lol so a custom action is becoming more appealing everyday. Unless you know any other site that I could possibly check out then I would appreciate it because unless this gun show in houston happens to have one or a few used or new leftys then I'm SOL intill a lefty pops up.

 

[Equitum]

Re: Rifle build help

http://www.google.com/products/cata...T--zAob89QTrg4DuAQ&ved=0CGIQ8wIwBQ#scoring=tp

If that link doesn't work (and it might not because of cookies and such making it a static link only for me), then just search "Remington 700 sps varmint left hand" and click on the shopping tab on the left side. I sorted by price (lowest first), then it should be the listing marked "Remington 84229 Rem 700 Sps Vrmt 308WIN 26 HB Blk LH" at $592 from 11 stores.

The cheapest total one on there is Livengood Outdoors, and they are GTG. That's actually where I got my rifle - I just had my Bud's Gun Shop tab with the same rifle open for about a week, so I had it in my head I ordered from Bud's.

Scope-wise, I like any of those (NF, Leupold, Vortex), but what I ended up considering were a little cheaper than those but still great glass: the Millet TRS-1 and the Falcon Menace. They both come mil/mil, which was a plus to me, and their quality is excellent for the price.

 

[TexasOutlaw]

Re: Rifle build help

Ya know what lol I didn't even think to look at that part of google when I was searching for websites weeks ago. As far as scopes go my dad put a Super Sniper on his 5R and that has been the best scope he has bought besides leupold so I havent really counted one of those out yet. Altho you buy once and cry once lol. Thanks for the help.

 

[tigerfan_9]

Re: Rifle build help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Equitum</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://www.google.com/products/cata...T--zAob89QTrg4DuAQ&ved=0CGIQ8wIwBQ#scoring=tp

If that link doesn't work (and it might not because of cookies and such making it a static link only for me), then just search "Remington 700 sps varmint left hand" and click on the shopping tab on the left side. I sorted by price (lowest first), then it should be the listing marked "Remington 84229 Rem 700 Sps Vrmt 308WIN 26 HB Blk LH" at $592 from 11 stores.

The cheapest total one on there is Livengood Outdoors, and they are GTG. That's actually where I got my rifle - I just had my Bud's Gun Shop tab with the same rifle open for about a week, so I had it in my head I ordered from Bud's.

Scope-wise, I like any of those (NF, Leupold, Vortex), but what I ended up considering were a little cheaper than those but still great glass: the Millet TRS-1 and the Falcon Menace. They both come mil/mil, which was a plus to me, and their quality is excellent for the price.
</div></div>

i checked all of those a while back and none in stock nor could they give me an expected date so i went custom also.

 

[Jedi]

Re: Rifle build help

Check out the left hand for sale thread, hidden in the WTB/WTT section
there is a LH LTR for sale there right now
good luck

 

[turbo54]

Re: Rifle build help

I think you should just watch the classifieds here on the hide, and jump on a Lefty rifle you like.

 

[TonyAngel]

Re: Rifle build help

Death, man, if you are looking at a custom action just because you want/need a left handed action, don't jump so fast. Keep checking here and on gunbroker. A friend of mine just (within the last two months) picked up a left handed 700 in .308 on gunbroker. If you keep your eyes open, you'll be able to find one.

I do appreciate the compliments on my rifle and shooting, but like I said, it's really nothing special. The only thing remotely special about the rifle is the barrel and you can throw one of those on any action.

All I'm trying to say is that unless you have a pocket full of money, spend wisely.

With having said that, I will also say that I'll never buy another over the counter rifle again, unless it's just because it's a stupid low price and I need the receiver. Actually, let me qualify that. I'll never buy an over the counter rifle that costs more than $900, because you can build a semi custom rig for not much more.

Just as a reference, on my build, I got the receiver with the Holland bolt handle on it for around $300. The Krieger barrel was $325. The HSP stock is a Remington 700P pull off that I got for $225. The Shilen trigger was $125. The bottom metal was around $250. $325 for my smith to put the barrel on and lap the lugs. So, I have around $1500 in my build.

Of course, I could have skipped the DBM bottom metal and saved that money. I could also have found a receiver without the Holland handle for less. I'd speculate that I could have built this rifle for around $1100 or $1200.

The advantages to going this route are many, but what means the most to me are practical advantages. I've gone as many as 300 rounds between cleanings, and still don't see any copper fouling when I clean. The chamber is tighter which leads to higher velocities and longer brass life. The added heft of the barrel that I went with provides a more stable platform.

Now, if you're just got to start shooting, then just go grab yourself an SPS model and start shooting. You can upgrade as funds allow. Having a decked out rifle is pretty cool, but there's no replacement for trigger time.

 

[Gray]

Re: Rifle build help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Blaktastic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I do think the templar action will fit into a Mcree stock. On Mcree's website it lists these acions that will fit into the stock-- Remington 700, Lawton 7000, Stiller TAC30 & Predator, Surgeon 591 & RSR, HS Precision Pro 2000. All of these action are considered remington 700 "clones". On GAP's website I think they are trying to be modest by saying that it has "similar specs", I actually think it is a straight up clone of most of the specs that actually matter. As for the twist, if it were me I would probably go with 1:11.25 if you are going to be strickly sitcking to 175 and 165s but if you went with a 1:10 it wouldn't really hurt anything and you would always be able to drift up the the heavier bullets if you choose to in the future.
</div></div>

I would call GAP and make sure of Templar fit without modification to chassis, I think the Templar is around a 1/4" longer than a standard Remington, not much but it may be enough to cause the need for slight modification to the recoil lug area in the chassis. Parts lists looks great though!

 

[TexasOutlaw]

Re: Rifle build help

Thanks for the heads up on the lefty classifieds I didn't know there was a section. I PMed two guys with leftys in 308s one was the LTR and the other was a custom one so hopefully I hear something soon cause I can afford either one now. I sure do appreciate all of yalls input!!!

 

[TexasOutlaw]

Re: Rifle build help

Tony that was my original plan just build when funds allow but I guess I was just frustrated on not finding anything so I automatically went to custom rifle which would be nice I would still like to have one someday. Lol I have been wanting a rifle for 2 years now (since I started college) so I probably need to be a little more patient.

 

[TonyAngel]

Re: Rifle build help

Death, do you have much trigger time with a bolt gun? I'm just asking, because I'm wondering if you are looking for a left handed rifle because you are left handed or because you know that you'd prefer one from experience.

The reason that I'm asking is because I have a good friend that is left handed and he shoot left handed. He hunts with left handed rifles because cycling the bolt with his right hand just doesn't work from a standing shooting position.

Now, when it comes to shooting prone or from a bench, he actually prefers a right handed rifle because he can cycle the bolt without disturbing his sight picture. Actually, he can shoot pretty darned fast.

I've been considering building a lefty bench/prone rifle to see if I might like that better.

If you can go with a righty, it might open up your options.

 

[TexasOutlaw]

Re: Rifle build help

I have been shooting bolt guns since the age of 4 (I'm 24 now) all of them right handed. My first rifle was a Remington 600 Mohawk in a .243 (correct me if I'm wrong). Then started shooting a Remington 700 in a .280 and in the past two years my dads Remington 700 5R .308. This isn't including the number of rifles my friends have lol.

Most of the time target shooting its not a problem cause I'm laying down or on a bench so I use my right hand to rack the bolt. Now trying to shoot off hand or shooting something on the run I'm a little slow cause I cant the rifle to the left and reach over the scope with my left hand to rack the bolt so it takes sometime. I could probably practice that and become fluent with the motions.

 

[TonyAngel]

Re: Rifle build help

I'm meeting a group of friends tomorrow for a practice session. One of them is left handed (the one I mentioned above). I'll see if he has a spare lefty in the safe that he might be willing to sell.

 

[TexasOutlaw]

Re: Rifle build help

Tony, Thanks I appreciate it.

 

[TexasOutlaw]

Re: Rifle build help

Well after a few weeks and a big thanks to excaliber I now have a left handed remington 700 .308 barreled action and just put in an order for a Manners T3 with mini chassis. Now looking at buying a Vortex Viper PST in a 4-16x mil/mil.