.308 AR modular rail recommendations

[Tactical22]

What options are out there for free float, modular, 15"ish (to cover a rifle length gas port) hand guards for .308 ARs?(I'm referring to the DPMS/Fulton/GAP/POF/SI Defense style with a radiused rear receiver that takes SR25 type mags - the barrel extensions and threads are different on Armalite/Bushmaster/Rock River receivers from what I understand.)

I have the JP/VTAC 15" modular free float tube and like it, but the way it mounts to the gun seems a little fragile, and I have had some issues with it (although JP has been awesome about making it right). Also, my gun, even with a pencil barrel, is heavier than I want it to be. With no rails or sights the hand guard weighs 1.1 lbs. Add a hand stop of some sort, a light, a sling mount, and a front sight, plus all the rails to attach those things to, and it gets heavier... So, I would love to save some weight and improve the mounting options.

The only handguards I know of that fit my requirements besides the JP/VTAC are the new 15" APEX (although the weight isn't posted yet and the way it mounts to the receiver does not appear to be all that different from the JP/VTAC), and the SWS E1. Superior Weapons also does not have the weight listed, and I can't tell how it mounts to the gun from the pictures. PRI has a new carbon fiber 15" hand guard listed for Armalite-style rifles, so maybe they will make a similar one for the other SR25 style soon.

Do you know of any others? Have you used any of the above? Do you know the weight or the way they mount?

 

[bmt]

Re: .308 AR modular rail recommendations

Only ones i have even found are DPMS and Daniel Defense.

Could be more, my google skills are pretty average.

BMT

 

[BCP]

Re: .308 AR modular rail recommendations

Troy 12" weighs 12oz. That's kind of splitting hairs though because once you add little rail pieces and accessories it will be equal to what you have now give or take.

BTW if you have a pencil barrel and a jp handguard and it's still too heavy then I don't know what to tell you...probably not much more to shave off...

 

[Tactical22]

Re: .308 AR modular rail recommendations

Loaded, the thing ways around 10lbs

 

[oelschl]

Re: .308 AR modular rail recommendations

I have the Troy MRF 13.8, not quite 15" but sufficient. As far as saving weight, you might check the PRI carbon fiber forearm, most of the aluminum rails will be about the same within a few ounces.

 

[SD26]

Re: .308 AR modular rail recommendations

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tactical .22</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I have the JP/VTAC 15" modular free float tube and like it, but the way it mounts to the gun seems a little fragile, and I have had some issues with it (although JP has been awesome about making it right).</div></div>
Can you elaborate a little on your set up? I'm considering JP in 15"... are you using one of their adjustable low profile gas blocks by chance? And data on the issues, not to bad mouth JP but maybe to tell how they made everything right. I've had very good experiences with them...

 

[dlxcupid]

Re: .308 AR modular rail recommendations

10lbs? That's pretty light considering a 308 AR. Let's see pictures and specs of what you got going on. Maybe using a 10-12" rail instead of a 15" would shave a little weight.

 

[snakebyte922]

Re: .308 AR modular rail recommendations

I would recomend going with the Daniel Defense Lite Rail 12.0 7.62! I would post a pic of it on my AR10, but last time i did they ate it alive so, but i for some reason thought DD had the lightest rail on the market.

 

[Doug Shooter]

Re: .308 AR modular rail recommendations

I use DD rails on my AR10s they are great. You should put one of those on your rifle. Very sharp looking too. They will even install it for free if you ship them your upper.

 

[smschulz]

Re: .308 AR modular rail recommendations

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Super Dave</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tactical .22</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I have the JP/VTAC 15" modular free float tube and like it, but the way it mounts to the gun seems a little fragile, and I have had some issues with it (although JP has been awesome about making it right).</div></div>
Can you elaborate a little on your set up? I'm considering JP in 15"... are you using one of their adjustable low profile gas blocks by chance? And data on the issues, not to bad mouth JP but maybe to tell how they made everything right. I've had very good experiences with them...</div></div>

I don't get it about the JP being 'fragile' either.
I have used them several times and it is rock solid as far as I am concerned.
JP makes top notch stuff all around and I haven't seen anything that would make me shy away.
YMMV

BTW, I am thinking about a build with a Superior Weapons Systems rail.

 

[snakebyte922]

Re: .308 AR modular rail recommendations

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: smschulz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Super Dave</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tactical .22</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I have the JP/VTAC 15" modular free float tube and like it, but the way it mounts to the gun seems a little fragile, and I have had some issues with it (although JP has been awesome about making it right).</div></div>
Can you elaborate a little on your set up? I'm considering JP in 15"... are you using one of their adjustable low profile gas blocks by chance? And data on the issues, not to bad mouth JP but maybe to tell how they made everything right. I've had very good experiences with them...</div></div>

I don't get it about the JP being 'fragile' either.
I have used them several times and it is rock solid as far as I am concerned.
JP makes top notch stuff all around and I haven't seen anything that would make me shy away.
YMMV

BTW, I am thinking about a build with a Superior Weapons Systems rail. </div></div>

I havent seen them in stock for a long time

 

[snakebyte922]

Re: .308 AR modular rail recommendations

superior that is!!!!

 

[Tactical22]

Re: .308 AR modular rail recommendations

This is the rifle pretty much as it is now

Magpul UBR
Fulton A4 Upper
Fulton Upper internals
BCM Large Latch
DPMS Lower
DPMS Lower parts
Hogue Grip
Kreiger Kriterion 18" Lightweight Chrome lined barrel 1/10
JP low profile adjustable gas block
Surefire Brake
JP 15" modular free float tube
Falcon 1.5-5
Magpul AFG2 (it has an OD AFG1 on there now)
4" rail section for AFG
2" rail section for BUIS (not installed, but planning on Diamondheads)
2" rail section for light at 10 o'clock (Surefire G2 and VTAC mount now, would like to get a light with a longer throw, like the Surefire mini scout)
VTAC Heavy duty QD swivel socket, swivels, and sling.
Magpul LR308 PMAG
(and copious amounts of Krylon

)

I built it with the goal of being as mult-purpose as possible. Basically a light, accurate "battle rifle". I would love to try to push it out to 1000 yards someday, but I only have access to 200 yds and in right now

Taking a class with Grey Group next weekend with this rifle that will get me out to 600 or so, though

 

[Tactical22]

Re: .308 AR modular rail recommendations

Just for all those internet experts who said that AR10s get dirty and jam after 100 rounds

This picture was taken after the first 1000 rounds of surplus ammo with no cleaning. The gun still worked fine, but it was getting hard to manually extract rounds:

 

[Tactical22]

Re: .308 AR modular rail recommendations

As for what went wrong - I was taking a class with it and noticed that the handguard got really floppy all of a sudden and was touching the gas block

Come to find that three of the six screw heads that hold the handguard to the receiver nut had lost their heads - it looks like they fractured off inside.

It was a pain in the neck getting it apart again, I guess because it is not made to come apart with three screws still in it -_-

I called JP, and Dave took really good care of me. Several calls, lots of brainstorming, and three shipments later (the third is shipping as we speak) I should be GTG. It sounded like he was willing to send me a whole new handguard if I needed it due to damage, but I assured him that was not necessary. I'm hoping this was just a fluke, because I love the handguard and the company

 

[SD26]

Re: .308 AR modular rail recommendations

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tactical .22</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Kreiger Kriterion 18" Lightweight Chrome lined barrel 1/10
JP low profile adjustable gas block
JP 15" modular free float tube

I built it with the goal of being as mult-purpose as possible. Basically a light, accurate "battle rifle". I would love to try to push it out to 1000 yards someday, but I only have access to 200 yds and in right now

Taking a class with Grey Group next weekend with this rifle that will get me out to 600 or so, though

</div></div>

Is that gas system mid length or rifle length? And can you get at the gas block adjuster under the JP handguard?

Thanks for sharing all the pictures. Strange how those pieces broke... bad manufacturing on the bolts?

 

[Tactical22]

Re: .308 AR modular rail recommendations

It's rifle length.

Yeah, the GPGS5 (now JPGS5B) Is what I used, and it fits under the handguard perfectly. You can adjust the set screw through the handguard vent on the right side. And, whenever I have enough dough to get a Surefire suppressor, all I have to do is trim about 3/4" off the solid part of the tube to use the suppressor locking collar.

 

[SD26]

Re: .308 AR modular rail recommendations

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tactical .22</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Yeah, the GPGS5 (now JPGS5B) Is what I used, and it fits under the handguard perfectly.</div></div>
Excellent! Was hoping I could do that on my long range rifle with this http://www.jprifles.com/buy.php?item=JPGS-8 and your handguard combination, but I didn't know if I could adjust anything once the handguard was in place.

Considering http://jprifles.com/buy.php?item=JPGS-SO for my carbine, mid length gas tube, with a longer handguard. But that adjusts from the front.

Thanks, again!

 

[Tactical22]

Re: .308 AR modular rail recommendations

What handguard are you thinking of, Dave?

 

[SD26]

Re: .308 AR modular rail recommendations

The JP 15".

Whether one could adjust a gas block was a cosideration. The other being if a top rail mounted on it would be the same height of my "late model" DPMS 308 uppers for the use of additional accessories.

 

[smschulz]

Re: .308 AR modular rail recommendations

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Super Dave</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Considering http://jprifles.com/buy.php?item=JPGS-SO for my carbine, mid length gas tube, with a longer handguard. But that adjusts from the front.
</div></div>
Just ordered the same one from Brownell's ($20 cheaper btw) for that very same reason.

 

[Tactical22]

Re: .308 AR modular rail recommendations

I like the look of that gas block. I don't remember seeing that when I started my build. I wonder if it is relatively new? Looks like a good option.

 

[koodbe]

Re: .308 AR modular rail recommendations

Tactical .22
Dont want to hijack this thread but I gotta ask how you are removing the broken screws from that grip.I have 2 with stripped allen heads on a JDMach grip...same situation

 

[Tactical22]

Re: .308 AR modular rail recommendations

Well, koodbe....I'm not

JP was nice enough to send me a new one. You have a few options, though, depending on your skill level. You can try your luck with a broken bolt extractor, carefully try to drill it out, or kind of combine both techniques and use this, which looks like a good option (never tried one this nice though).

 

[koodbe]

Re: .308 AR modular rail recommendations

I was afraid youd say that, Its going in the milling machine tomorrow for precision screw removal. Thanks for the quick response

 

[bmt]

Re: .308 AR modular rail recommendations

Back to the Thread.

Anyone have the troy TRX-308 carbine rail?

Link:

http://troyind.com/%20/rail-systemsacces...ail-trx-308-7-2

BMT

 

[Tactical22]

Re: .308 AR modular rail recommendations

I've never so much as seen 'em, BMT

I got the JP back up and running this weekend. Feels solid as a rock. I'm not quite sure what happened last time, whether it was my fault, their fault, or the fault of the smith that I had check the gas system. Whatever the case, JP took care of it.

I'll be running it through a class next weekend, so I'll let you guys know how it goes. Don't expect any problems, and I take back what I said about it not feeling solid - this time around, it feels darn near monolithic. I guess I was just frustrated

 

[caelumatra]

Re: .308 AR modular rail recommendations

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: smschulz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Super Dave</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tactical .22</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I have the JP/VTAC 15" modular free float tube and like it, but the way it mounts to the gun seems a little fragile, and I have had some issues with it (although JP has been awesome about making it right).</div></div>
Can you elaborate a little on your set up? I'm considering JP in 15"... are you using one of their adjustable low profile gas blocks by chance? And data on the issues, not to bad mouth JP but maybe to tell how they made everything right. I've had very good experiences with them...</div></div>

I don't get it about the JP being 'fragile' either.
I have used them several times and it is rock solid as far as I am concerned.
JP makes top notch stuff all around and I haven't seen anything that would make me shy away.
YMMV

BTW, I am thinking about a build with a Superior Weapons Systems rail. </div></div>


I've got the standard length SWS rail on my ar15 and that bitch is HEAVY. In contrast to other rails that is.
I have this guy on my ar308
http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=2497

When I picked it up I was just dumbfounded by how light it was, especially compared to the shorter SWS that I have. One note however: the 12" is not long enough for my Noveske 18" barrel. Ideally I would put a bipod at the furthest out point on the rail. But the location of the gas block on the barrel with Noveske's "intermediate" gas length conflicts with the ideal location of the rail lug...thing, so I have to either come up with a different solution to mounting the rail piece or just move the bipod back some.

As to weight...my empty AR308 weighs 9.84 pounds with that rail.

 

[Tactical22]

Re: .308 AR modular rail recommendations

You got a picture or description of your setup?

 

[caelumatra]

Re: .308 AR modular rail recommendations

Pardon the crappy cell phone picture. Its all green now and has a rear sight aperture and is waiting on an optic to join it to get patterned all together.


Anyway, the picatinny rail section at the bottom front of the rail, you cant see whats its doing but, it is in constant contact with the gas block...pretty much eliminating the free floating-ness of the barrel. So, double check the location of the gas block and the length of the rail you end up going with. I most definitely should have gotten the longer one for $10 extra.

BTW, Rainier has a pretty good military discount if that applies to you

I have since taken the RISR off because with no optic, not only is it useless, but it keeps you from getting proper sight picture with the BUS. So in its current iteration its even lighter.

By item:
MaTen upper/lower
Armalite BCG
BCM 762 gunfighter charging handle
DD Ar15 lpk
MOE stock
Laurue 5 pos ar10 RE
Noveske 18" with BABC on the end
Tango down pistol grip, because I cant stand the standard one
I also have an ASAP plate on it that I had to grind the little side wings off of to get installed because the billet receiver is so much fatter

 

[Tactical22]

Re: .308 AR modular rail recommendations

Looks nice

Did the charging handle clear the RISR when it was installed? You are saying you could have gotten a longer rail section for $10, right? (and then just not used the screws directly under the gas block) Does Troy make a tube longer than that? I am so happy with 15", especially with an 18" bbl.

 

[Tactical22]

Re: .308 AR modular rail recommendations

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As to weight...my empty AR308 weighs 9.84 pounds with that rail.</div></div>
How does LaRue do it?!?!

 

[caelumatra]

Re: .308 AR modular rail recommendations

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tactical .22</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Looks nice

Did the charging handle clear the RISR when it was installed? You are saying you could have gotten a longer rail section for $10, right? (and then just not used the screws directly under the gas block) Does Troy make a tube longer than that? I am so happy with 15", especially with an 18" bbl. </div></div>

The RISR is a reciprocating piece. When you pull the charging handle it is directly in the way. However, its spring loaded and rides on a slide mounted to the MOE. So when you pull the charging handle, the charging handle moves the RISR back and then it springs back in place. Its a pretty neat idea

And yes, 10 or 20 dollars more would have gotten me the 13.8" rail instead of the 12" rail and totally alleviated this problem I now have. Not sure why I went with the 12"...I think because with military discount at Rainier it was under $200 and the 13.8 was over and I was watching my budget. I believe 13.8 is their longest rail in that design

 

[caelumatra]

Re: .308 AR modular rail recommendations

Must be the Dillo Dust lol

I asked Todd K (from Noveske) over on m4carbine about lightening the bolt carrier and he discouraged it. I was truly shocked when I hefted that BCG out of the box. Compared to the 556 BCG...that thing weighs a ton.

I had seen some threads around the internet about shaving down the rear section of the carrier. But Todd said changing the weight would start to change the way the gun would function pretty dramatically. JP makes lightweight carriers that were out of my budget, and hearing it from the horses mouth, I decided it wasn't worth messing with it. I am pleased with the dimpling done by Marvin Pitts but hoped it would take more weight off than it did

 

[caelumatra]

Re: .308 AR modular rail recommendations

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tactical .22</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As to weight...my empty AR308 weighs 9.84 pounds with that rail.</div></div>
How does LaRue do it?!?! </div></div>

Found my picture of it on the scale and I stand corrected, 9.3 pounds

 

[Tactical22]

Re: .308 AR modular rail recommendations

Anyone know if you can get "replacement" part from LaRue for the .308 PredatAR? I'm thinking their barrel and hand guard have a lot to do with their weight savings. I just don't see much of anywhere else to shave it off.

 

[Tactical22]

Re: .308 AR modular rail recommendations

Well, not only did the JP handguard do GREAT during a two day John McPhee "Heavy Gunner" class, it also survived a pretty serious car wreck on the way home

I can recommend it pretty highly now.

 

[AZIROC]

Re: .308 AR modular rail recommendations

wow.. 9 lbs. i think the last i weighed mine it was an easy 12 lbs

 

[SD26]

Re: .308 AR modular rail recommendations

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tactical .22</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, not only did the JP handguard do GREAT during a two day John McPhee "Heavy Gunner" class, it also survived a pretty serious car wreck on the way home

I can recommend it pretty highly now. </div></div>
You're ok?

 

[Tactical22]

Re: .308 AR modular rail recommendations

Thanks for asking Dave. Don't want to get too far off topic, but yeah, I'm...great. I was headed home from the class on I-40 going about 70-75mph in the left lane. It started to rain. I was drifting towards the concrete divider, jerked the wheel to avoid hitting it, lost control, skidded across both lanes of traffic, rolled down a hill 6 1/2 times and landed in the middle if State Road 58. I crawled out of my upside down 93 Ford Explorer Sport instantly with little more than a scratch on my hand and a seat belt burn on my neck. Paramedic said I should be dead. Car is totaled. All the guns in the car handled it great, though. Considering the G-forces and the multiple impacts, I think that says a lot. All the gun cases ended up being open by the time I reached the bottom of the hill.

God is real. He cares. Seat belts were a great invention. Wear them.

 

[SD26]

Re: .308 AR modular rail recommendations

Good to hear!

Back on topic: JP has a new handguard...Rapid Configuration. I'll read more about it tonight.

 

[Tactical22]

Re: .308 AR modular rail recommendations

Oooh! Cool. Thanks for the heads up. http://www.jprifles.com/1.4.4_hg_rc.php

 

[SD26]

Re: .308 AR modular rail recommendations

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tactical .22</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Oooh! Cool. Thanks for the heads up. http://www.jprifles.com/1.4.4_hg_rc.php </div></div>
I guess the question has to be: is it for a 308 AR?

 

[Tactical22]

Re: .308 AR modular rail recommendations

Not yet, I don't think.

Between the picture here and statements like "AR platform" and "for for AR-15/M16 type rifles"...

 

[Justinsaneok]

Re: .308 AR modular rail recommendations

Anyone try a JP 15",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,on a 16" AP4 Carbine?
I'm stuck between a troy 13.8" and a JP15"

 

[SD26]

Re: .308 AR modular rail recommendations

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Justinsaneok</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyone try a JP 15",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,on a 16" AP4 Carbine?</div></div>That's exactly what my plan is, but I haven't done it yet.

 

[Justinsaneok]

Re: .308 AR modular rail recommendations

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Super Dave</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Justinsaneok</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyone try a JP 15",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,on a 16" AP4 Carbine?</div></div>That's exactly what my plan is, but I haven't done it yet. </div></div>
I measured mine and it should fit without blowing gas out of the JP BC muzzle brake up the rail tube.

The A2 sight is keeping my hand back enough to leave the ovglove in the kitchen. lol I hate a carbine forend even on a carbine.

Mostly for a flip up sight radius increase and so I can get my hand out a bit further.
I'm planning on a adjustable gas block to tone the gas down.

 

[Tactical22]

Re: .308 AR modular rail recommendations

I've toyed with the idea. Shouldn't be a problem as long as you have the right gas block (or a cut down front sight). I personally like the look and utility of long hand guards. Plus, a muzzle device will bring it out another 1 1/2" or so.