Helping my FIL with his Savage LRP 260. His Lapua brass is on it's 3rd firing and he had a primer fall out last nite after priming. He had this trouble with another 260 when using Rem brass but thought Lapua would fix it. Anybody else experienced this problem? Loads are on the hot side but nothing extreme. Shooting 123 amax's over varget and 140 amax's over h4350. He recieved some of the first brass that shipped, could this be faulty brass?
- Thread starter bjordan
- Start date
Re: Lapua 260 ... loose primer pockets
I have some of the first Lapua .260 brass also. Without knowing more, based on my experience with this brass, I'd say your load is WAY hot.
Care to share you 140 load info? Jump, grains, COAL, velocity?
John
I have some of the first Lapua .260 brass also. Without knowing more, based on my experience with this brass, I'd say your load is WAY hot.
Care to share you 140 load info? Jump, grains, COAL, velocity?
John
Re: Lapua 260 ... loose primer pockets
The shit is way too hot.
The shit is way too hot.
Re: Lapua 260 ... loose primer pockets
? what primers & powder weight
? what primers & powder weight
Re: Lapua 260 ... loose primer pockets
41grs Varget, I shot 41grs of Varget in Rem brass w/no failures till 5th reloading. Switched to Lupua.....Maintained 41grs Varget...primer fell out of one on third firing.
Dropped to 39grs with new lupua brass and after one firing most pockets are good but some are already loose enough to make me stop and look.
Is this load still too hot???
Any help will be greatly appreciated.
41grs Varget, I shot 41grs of Varget in Rem brass w/no failures till 5th reloading. Switched to Lupua.....Maintained 41grs Varget...primer fell out of one on third firing.
Dropped to 39grs with new lupua brass and after one firing most pockets are good but some are already loose enough to make me stop and look.
Is this load still too hot???
Any help will be greatly appreciated.
Re: Lapua 260 ... loose primer pockets
John,
140 load data.....43grs H4350 Lupua brass, BR2 primers, 140gr Hornady A-max. 3.266 oal with hornady comparator and dial caliper. 20 thousands/or less in the lands.
123 load data.....39grs Varget, Lupua brass, BR2 primers, 123gr Hornady A-max. 3.266 oal with hornady comparator and dail caliper. 20 thousands/or less in the lands.
John,
140 load data.....43grs H4350 Lupua brass, BR2 primers, 140gr Hornady A-max. 3.266 oal with hornady comparator and dial caliper. 20 thousands/or less in the lands.
123 load data.....39grs Varget, Lupua brass, BR2 primers, 123gr Hornady A-max. 3.266 oal with hornady comparator and dail caliper. 20 thousands/or less in the lands.
Re: Lapua 260 ... loose primer pockets
Primers loose = hot load. (unless you're hoggin out the pockets when you clean...)
Not sure about Rem. brass, but the Lapua is just over 1 full grain H20 less capacity than Win. 708 formed to .260. In other words, if I run 44 gr. of x powder in my Win. brass, I have to reduce to 43 gr. in the Lapua to get the same velocity. Funny thing is that the Lapua brass is SO hard that I saw no signs other than velocities and case head expansion. No sticky bolt, no ejector marks. And like I said... my primers didn't get loose. I don't even want to guess at your pressures.
This is a good place to use extreme caution... or have someone you don't particularly care for pulling the trigger.
John
Primers loose = hot load. (unless you're hoggin out the pockets when you clean...)
Not sure about Rem. brass, but the Lapua is just over 1 full grain H20 less capacity than Win. 708 formed to .260. In other words, if I run 44 gr. of x powder in my Win. brass, I have to reduce to 43 gr. in the Lapua to get the same velocity. Funny thing is that the Lapua brass is SO hard that I saw no signs other than velocities and case head expansion. No sticky bolt, no ejector marks. And like I said... my primers didn't get loose. I don't even want to guess at your pressures.
This is a good place to use extreme caution... or have someone you don't particularly care for pulling the trigger.
John
Re: Lapua 260 ... loose primer pockets
I read somewhere that lapua tests their brass at 30% over pressure. Their brass is very sturdy. It also tends to be thicker than other brands so the same charge weight in a Rem case will yield higher pressure in the lapua. I would suggest starting with the book minimums and work up looking for pressure. The brass has great longevity and consistency its worth figuring out your load. Hodgdon's website lists the max charge weights for the 120-125gr bullet weights to be 37.5-39 grains with Varget. According to that table you are about 2gr over max, factor that in with the thicker lapua cases and i think that is your problem.
Try this, starting at 36gr of Varget load up in .5gr increments to 39.5gr (total of 7 rounds). Look at the picture, this is what you are looking for. Notice the shiny circle around the .270 stamp. That is an indication that the brass has started to flow. The case head gets stamped into the ejector button area of the bolt face and when you lift the bolt handle it shears off the brass and leaves that shiny spot. When you first see this in your test back off one half grain of powder, that is your max. You can do your load developement from there working backwards if you like to get the max velocity.
I read somewhere that lapua tests their brass at 30% over pressure. Their brass is very sturdy. It also tends to be thicker than other brands so the same charge weight in a Rem case will yield higher pressure in the lapua. I would suggest starting with the book minimums and work up looking for pressure. The brass has great longevity and consistency its worth figuring out your load. Hodgdon's website lists the max charge weights for the 120-125gr bullet weights to be 37.5-39 grains with Varget. According to that table you are about 2gr over max, factor that in with the thicker lapua cases and i think that is your problem.
Try this, starting at 36gr of Varget load up in .5gr increments to 39.5gr (total of 7 rounds). Look at the picture, this is what you are looking for. Notice the shiny circle around the .270 stamp. That is an indication that the brass has started to flow. The case head gets stamped into the ejector button area of the bolt face and when you lift the bolt handle it shears off the brass and leaves that shiny spot. When you first see this in your test back off one half grain of powder, that is your max. You can do your load developement from there working backwards if you like to get the max velocity.
Re: Lapua 260 ... loose primer pockets
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rprevatte</div><div class="ubbcode-body">John,
140 load data.....43grs H4350 Lupua brass, BR2 primers, 140gr Hornady A-max. 3.266 oal with hornady comparator and dial caliper. 20 thousands/or less in the lands.</div></div>
The "in the lands" part of this equation might be the part that's giving you pressure spikes. Either jump them at least .005" or back way down like Jesse advised and work up.
Edit: FWIW, I have not found it necessary to jam anything in the .260 to get it to run. Berger VLD's are very jump sensitive. Amax's not so much. Scenars and Hornady BTHP's not at all.
John
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rprevatte</div><div class="ubbcode-body">John,
140 load data.....43grs H4350 Lupua brass, BR2 primers, 140gr Hornady A-max. 3.266 oal with hornady comparator and dial caliper. 20 thousands/or less in the lands.</div></div>
The "in the lands" part of this equation might be the part that's giving you pressure spikes. Either jump them at least .005" or back way down like Jesse advised and work up.
Edit: FWIW, I have not found it necessary to jam anything in the .260 to get it to run. Berger VLD's are very jump sensitive. Amax's not so much. Scenars and Hornady BTHP's not at all.
John
Re: Lapua 260 ... loose primer pockets
In my 260's (2) the remington brass load is 43.5 grains of H4350, in Lapua it's 42 grains, same bullet/primer. If you're running the same/same load between Rem/Lapua I'd say your over pressure. Back the load off and work it back up.
In my 260's (2) the remington brass load is 43.5 grains of H4350, in Lapua it's 42 grains, same bullet/primer. If you're running the same/same load between Rem/Lapua I'd say your over pressure. Back the load off and work it back up.
Re: Lapua 260 ... loose primer pockets
This is kind of getting ridiculous. Reloading needs to be taken serious and one needs to take the time to learn the ins and outs of it. The fact that anyone is out there running loads that are opening up primer pockets and doesnt know what is causing it is just down right scary. Even more scary is that anyone thinks that the problem is the brass, nevermind that it is with what is known as the strongest brass in the industry.
Please,please people do a little more research and err on the side of caution if you are not 100% sure of what you are doing.
This is kind of getting ridiculous. Reloading needs to be taken serious and one needs to take the time to learn the ins and outs of it. The fact that anyone is out there running loads that are opening up primer pockets and doesnt know what is causing it is just down right scary. Even more scary is that anyone thinks that the problem is the brass, nevermind that it is with what is known as the strongest brass in the industry.
Please,please people do a little more research and err on the side of caution if you are not 100% sure of what you are doing.
Re: Lapua 260 ... loose primer pockets
"Loads are on the hot side but nothing extreme" You just answered your own question. Pressure blows out the primer pockets...the more you have, the faster it happens. No brass is immune.
"Loads are on the hot side but nothing extreme" You just answered your own question. Pressure blows out the primer pockets...the more you have, the faster it happens. No brass is immune.
Re: Lapua 260 ... loose primer pockets
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Primers loose = hot load. (unless you're hoggin out the pockets when you clean...)
Not sure about Rem. brass, but the Lapua is just over 1 full grain H20 less capacity than Win. 708 formed to .260. In other words, if I run 44 gr. of x powder in my Win. brass, I have to reduce to 43 gr. in the Lapua to get the same velocity. Funny thing is that the Lapua brass is SO hard that I saw no signs other than velocities and case head expansion. No sticky bolt, no ejector marks. And like I said... my primers didn't get loose. I don't even want to guess at your pressures.
This is a good place to use extreme caution... or have someone you don't particularly care for pulling the trigger.
John </div></div>
+1 ... When you switch to brass with less case capacity and maintain the same charge of powder that was used in brass with more capacity, that equals more pressure and loose primer pockets.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Primers loose = hot load. (unless you're hoggin out the pockets when you clean...)
Not sure about Rem. brass, but the Lapua is just over 1 full grain H20 less capacity than Win. 708 formed to .260. In other words, if I run 44 gr. of x powder in my Win. brass, I have to reduce to 43 gr. in the Lapua to get the same velocity. Funny thing is that the Lapua brass is SO hard that I saw no signs other than velocities and case head expansion. No sticky bolt, no ejector marks. And like I said... my primers didn't get loose. I don't even want to guess at your pressures.
This is a good place to use extreme caution... or have someone you don't particularly care for pulling the trigger.
John </div></div>
+1 ... When you switch to brass with less case capacity and maintain the same charge of powder that was used in brass with more capacity, that equals more pressure and loose primer pockets.
Re: Lapua 260 ... loose primer pockets
Thanks Guys, My FIL is following this thread now so I'll let him update.
Thanks Guys, My FIL is following this thread now so I'll let him update.
Re: Lapua 260 ... loose primer pockets
SP95,
Really Dude,
You supplied no facts, personal data, or any help whatsoever for the problem at hand......but yet you had to interject YOUR personal opinion of people like myself that are still trying to learn and willing to admit that we can make a mistake.
Even the very best products still have failures. At least I am still trying to learn, it is obivious that you already know everything there is to know about reloading. Sorry I didn't live up to your high standards.
Did you happen to read the post about bashing newer members???
SP95,
Really Dude,
You supplied no facts, personal data, or any help whatsoever for the problem at hand......but yet you had to interject YOUR personal opinion of people like myself that are still trying to learn and willing to admit that we can make a mistake.
Even the very best products still have failures. At least I am still trying to learn, it is obivious that you already know everything there is to know about reloading. Sorry I didn't live up to your high standards.
Did you happen to read the post about bashing newer members???
Re: Lapua 260 ... loose primer pockets
To all the guys that provided useful information...
Thank you so much...that is what this site is all about.
Backing loads down and working back up and a little shorter hopefully this will prevent the spikes that are probably causing the problem.
Thanks again,
Ron
To all the guys that provided useful information...
Thank you so much...that is what this site is all about.
Backing loads down and working back up and a little shorter hopefully this will prevent the spikes that are probably causing the problem.
Thanks again,
Ron
Re: Lapua 260 ... loose primer pockets
Will do Jesse,
Thanks
Will do Jesse,
Thanks
Re: Lapua 260 ... loose primer pockets
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rprevatte</div><div class="ubbcode-body">41grs Varget, I shot 41grs of Varget in Rem brass w/no failures till 5th reloading. Switched to Lupua.....Maintained 41grs Varget...primer fell out of one on third firing.
Dropped to 39grs with new lupua brass and after one firing most pockets are good but some are already loose enough to make me stop and look.
Is this load still too hot???
Any help will be greatly appreciated. </div></div>
Yes, you are too hot.
The most practical pressure related information available to the reloader velocity? Velocity and pressure are tied at the proverbial hip...If the pressure tested data says 36 grains is giving 2600fps at 60Kpsi and you are going 2600 fps your pressure is at least 60KPSI.
If the bullet is going 2700fps you are asking for trouble...if it is 2800fps...You are self nominating for the Darwin Awards.
The thing is you are way above maximum recommended pressure tested data and are operating with no parachute. I suspect your load is in the 80,000+PSI range..Yes Lapua brass is a bit tougher, but keep in mind it is brass and not steel.
If it fails at those pressures you are in big (BIG!) trouble.
Stay safe!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rprevatte</div><div class="ubbcode-body">41grs Varget, I shot 41grs of Varget in Rem brass w/no failures till 5th reloading. Switched to Lupua.....Maintained 41grs Varget...primer fell out of one on third firing.
Dropped to 39grs with new lupua brass and after one firing most pockets are good but some are already loose enough to make me stop and look.
Is this load still too hot???
Any help will be greatly appreciated. </div></div>
Yes, you are too hot.
The most practical pressure related information available to the reloader velocity? Velocity and pressure are tied at the proverbial hip...If the pressure tested data says 36 grains is giving 2600fps at 60Kpsi and you are going 2600 fps your pressure is at least 60KPSI.
If the bullet is going 2700fps you are asking for trouble...if it is 2800fps...You are self nominating for the Darwin Awards.
The thing is you are way above maximum recommended pressure tested data and are operating with no parachute. I suspect your load is in the 80,000+PSI range..Yes Lapua brass is a bit tougher, but keep in mind it is brass and not steel.
If it fails at those pressures you are in big (BIG!) trouble.
Stay safe!
Re: Lapua 260 ... loose primer pockets
Glad to have some trial and error stories out there to read about. Just in case something similar ever happens to anyone I know.
Glad to have some trial and error stories out there to read about. Just in case something similar ever happens to anyone I know.
Re: Lapua 260 ... loose primer pockets
To SP95 defense I think he is just trying to warn you. The mistake you made could have hurt you or worse hurt someone around you.
When reloading you have to know what pressure signs to look for. Without knowing is like driving your car on the freeway blind folded.
Ask questions here if you are not sure. I've been reloading for 3 yrs now and I still rely on this thread for answers.
Be safe.
To SP95 defense I think he is just trying to warn you. The mistake you made could have hurt you or worse hurt someone around you.
When reloading you have to know what pressure signs to look for. Without knowing is like driving your car on the freeway blind folded.
Ask questions here if you are not sure. I've been reloading for 3 yrs now and I still rely on this thread for answers.
Be safe.
Re: Lapua 260 ... loose primer pockets
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gau17</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To SP95 defense I think he is just trying to warn you. The mistake you made could have hurt you or worse hurt someone around you.
When reloading you have to know what pressure signs to look for. Without knowing is like driving your car on the freeway blind folded.
Ask questions here if you are not sure. I've been reloading for 3 yrs now and I still rely on this thread for answers.
Be safe. </div></div>
You are 100% correct. I was not bashing in any way. I simply just dont want anyone to get hurt and frankly it just scares me when I read stuff like this.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gau17</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To SP95 defense I think he is just trying to warn you. The mistake you made could have hurt you or worse hurt someone around you.
When reloading you have to know what pressure signs to look for. Without knowing is like driving your car on the freeway blind folded.
Ask questions here if you are not sure. I've been reloading for 3 yrs now and I still rely on this thread for answers.
Be safe. </div></div>
You are 100% correct. I was not bashing in any way. I simply just dont want anyone to get hurt and frankly it just scares me when I read stuff like this.
Re: Lapua 260 ... loose primer pockets
I had brand new Lapua 260 brass, I loaded 38 grains of Varget with the bullet slightly jammed for forming into an Ackley, and the 5 I tested had extractor marks and loose primer pockets.
I had brand new Lapua 260 brass, I loaded 38 grains of Varget with the bullet slightly jammed for forming into an Ackley, and the 5 I tested had extractor marks and loose primer pockets.
Re: Lapua 260 ... loose primer pockets
Thanks for the "warnings" guys. Working the load back up with caution. Thanks for the concern SP95.
Thanks for the "warnings" guys. Working the load back up with caution. Thanks for the concern SP95.
Re: Lapua 260 ... loose primer pockets
I'll take all of the unfired, junky, way too soft La POO ahh brass you have left.
I'll trade you brand new Remington. 3 lapooahh to 1 Remmy.
Just like a damn rookie... Just because you can hit eggs at 500 yards don't mean squat. Or shoot bug hole groups. Hell, I can shoot one shot one hole groups ALL DAY LONG... at a MILE too boot!
My BS meter just maxed out!
See y'all at woody's next time.
I'm the one with the "Built By Me" Badger 6.5 CM.
I'll take all of the unfired, junky, way too soft La POO ahh brass you have left.
I'll trade you brand new Remington. 3 lapooahh to 1 Remmy.
Just like a damn rookie... Just because you can hit eggs at 500 yards don't mean squat. Or shoot bug hole groups. Hell, I can shoot one shot one hole groups ALL DAY LONG... at a MILE too boot!
My BS meter just maxed out!
See y'all at woody's next time.
I'm the one with the "Built By Me" Badger 6.5 CM.
Re: Lapua 260 ... loose primer pockets
Way to funny Dennis....but I'll keep my La poo ah brass. You keep building them DAM rifles.
Way to funny Dennis....but I'll keep my La poo ah brass. You keep building them DAM rifles.
