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Re: Any piston varmint rifles?
Cause piston systems are completely unnecessary on an AR15, and many people feel like the extra weight and harmonics introduced to the barrel adversely affect accuracy. There is a reason why you don't see competitive shooters in other disciplines using piston setups. Ask GAP why they don't use pistons.
Cause piston systems are completely unnecessary on an AR15, and many people feel like the extra weight and harmonics introduced to the barrel adversely affect accuracy. There is a reason why you don't see competitive shooters in other disciplines using piston setups. Ask GAP why they don't use pistons.
Re: Any piston varmint rifles?
Not if you want to hit anything.
Not if you want to hit anything.
Re: Any piston varmint rifles?
Yeah those POFs really suck. Can't his shit with them because of the piston.
Yeah those POFs really suck. Can't his shit with them because of the piston.
Re: Any piston varmint rifles?
Wow, I guess I just got really lucky with my POF 308 and both of my LWRC 223 rifles... the POF will do a 10 shot group you can cover with your palm at 300 yards and my LWRC 18" DMR will do 10 shots touching that you can cover with half a dollar bill.
Weight is an issue with pistons, but anyone that says anything about the moving parts of a piston affecting accuracy has no idea what they are talking about. The piston doesnt move at all until the bullet has already left the barrel. The piston on a properly adjusted system isn't under tension pushing on the barrel or anything like that. If you tilt a POF rifle back and forth you can hear the rod click-click as it moves back and forth slightly.
Cost and weight would be the two main factors against piston systems.
Wow, I guess I just got really lucky with my POF 308 and both of my LWRC 223 rifles... the POF will do a 10 shot group you can cover with your palm at 300 yards and my LWRC 18" DMR will do 10 shots touching that you can cover with half a dollar bill.
Weight is an issue with pistons, but anyone that says anything about the moving parts of a piston affecting accuracy has no idea what they are talking about. The piston doesnt move at all until the bullet has already left the barrel. The piston on a properly adjusted system isn't under tension pushing on the barrel or anything like that. If you tilt a POF rifle back and forth you can hear the rod click-click as it moves back and forth slightly.
Cost and weight would be the two main factors against piston systems.
Re: Any piston varmint rifles?
I expect that everyone who says pistons are not needed only uses a 1903 bolt action rifle, doesn't have a cell phone, and gets around by horse and buggy. Because hey, if something works, then why bother with any sort of innovation? And besides, change is scary.
I'm looking really hard at the LWRC. I hear great things about the POF, but I really don't like their hand guard.
I expect that everyone who says pistons are not needed only uses a 1903 bolt action rifle, doesn't have a cell phone, and gets around by horse and buggy. Because hey, if something works, then why bother with any sort of innovation? And besides, change is scary.
I'm looking really hard at the LWRC. I hear great things about the POF, but I really don't like their hand guard.
Re: Any piston varmint rifles?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marksman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I expect that everyone who says pistons are not needed only uses a 1903 bolt action rifle, doesn't have a cell phone, and gets around by horse and buggy. Because hey, if something works, then why bother with any sort of innovation? And besides, change is scary.
I'm looking really hard at the LWRC. I hear great things about the POF, but I really don't like their hand guard. </div></div>
all that would make sense....except that the short stroke gas piston system is not the innovation...DI is...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marksman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I expect that everyone who says pistons are not needed only uses a 1903 bolt action rifle, doesn't have a cell phone, and gets around by horse and buggy. Because hey, if something works, then why bother with any sort of innovation? And besides, change is scary.
I'm looking really hard at the LWRC. I hear great things about the POF, but I really don't like their hand guard. </div></div>
all that would make sense....except that the short stroke gas piston system is not the innovation...DI is...
Re: Any piston varmint rifles?
Let's look back at the title of this thread, his question is related to varmint rifles, not "tactical" rifles.
Please explain why you would want a piston driven varmint rifle?
Let's look back at the title of this thread, his question is related to varmint rifles, not "tactical" rifles.
Please explain why you would want a piston driven varmint rifle?
Re: Any piston varmint rifles?
Last year shooting squirrels my friend put 1,200 rounds through his Bushmaster Predator without cleaning, without a failure. It was gettin run hard too, to the point where the barrel would need to cool before popping more squirrels. In the 2.5 days last year he killed over 750, with a group total of over 3,000. None of the ranchers back home have had issues with their DI AR's either. Hell, the guy we shoot with had NEVER cleaned his AR before last year, and it was working fine. His dad has a 10/22 that has 3 through and through cracks in the receiver it gets shot so much.
A piston varmint gun is TRULY an answer in search of a problem.
Last year shooting squirrels my friend put 1,200 rounds through his Bushmaster Predator without cleaning, without a failure. It was gettin run hard too, to the point where the barrel would need to cool before popping more squirrels. In the 2.5 days last year he killed over 750, with a group total of over 3,000. None of the ranchers back home have had issues with their DI AR's either. Hell, the guy we shoot with had NEVER cleaned his AR before last year, and it was working fine. His dad has a 10/22 that has 3 through and through cracks in the receiver it gets shot so much.
A piston varmint gun is TRULY an answer in search of a problem.
Re: Any piston varmint rifles?
Well for one, a piston keeps the action cooler. A lot cooler.
I don't shoot groups much, but I put oine on steel the other day at 550 yards with my 308 POF. 4 into 2.5 inches and 5 into 4.1: All my POFs shoot around .6inches or 5 at 100 and the limiting factor is me.
Well for one, a piston keeps the action cooler. A lot cooler.
I don't shoot groups much, but I put oine on steel the other day at 550 yards with my 308 POF. 4 into 2.5 inches and 5 into 4.1: All my POFs shoot around .6inches or 5 at 100 and the limiting factor is me.
Re: Any piston varmint rifles?
LWRC makes a fine varmint rifle...
This A3 has taken a ton of hogs and 'yotes at night...
This 16 inch REPR will begin to do the same now that it's in hand..shown here set up for coyote calling solo at night without a spotlighter...
As for piston accuracy, there's a lot of sheeple out there that still regurgitate the old "pistons are inaccurate" line. I feel for them, I really do.
SPR 100yard group using a 1-4 power German #4 reticle..
REPR 200 yard group using a fixed 10 power mildot optic...woulda been better without my usual group-ruining flyer! 1.742 inches center to center with the flyer, and 1.18 center to center without the flyer. If math is a problem for anybody, that means that even with the flyer the group is 3/4 moa....without the flyer it's very nearly 1/2 moa. With a better optic, less mirage, and a better shooter...who knows?
No, it's not a Surgeon/Gap/APA bolt gun bug hole, but I'm happy.
LWRC makes a fine varmint rifle...
This A3 has taken a ton of hogs and 'yotes at night...
This 16 inch REPR will begin to do the same now that it's in hand..shown here set up for coyote calling solo at night without a spotlighter...
As for piston accuracy, there's a lot of sheeple out there that still regurgitate the old "pistons are inaccurate" line. I feel for them, I really do.
SPR 100yard group using a 1-4 power German #4 reticle..
REPR 200 yard group using a fixed 10 power mildot optic...woulda been better without my usual group-ruining flyer!
No, it's not a Surgeon/Gap/APA bolt gun bug hole, but I'm happy.
Re: Any piston varmint rifles?
Well there ya go, looks like a kick ass varmint gun to me!
Well there ya go, looks like a kick ass varmint gun to me!
Re: Any piston varmint rifles?
I was able to achieve nice little groups at 100 yards with my repr and spr. Well below moa
I was able to achieve nice little groups at 100 yards with my repr and spr. Well below moa
Re: Any piston varmint rifles?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deersniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well for one, a piston keeps the action cooler. A lot cooler.</div></div>
I can't say I have ever had an issue with any DI gun's action getting hot?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deersniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well for one, a piston keeps the action cooler. A lot cooler.</div></div>
I can't say I have ever had an issue with any DI gun's action getting hot?
Re: Any piston varmint rifles?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigBlue&Goldie</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deersniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well for one, a piston keeps the action cooler. A lot cooler.</div></div>
I can't say I have ever had an issue with any DI gun's action getting hot?</div></div>
Hmmm, maybe it's because you actually have to use the rifle for the action to get hot?
Here's something you can experiment with.
Go fire a couple hundred rounds through a gas impingement operated rifle as fast as you can, remove the upper, and then remove the bolt carrier group with your bare hands.
After your hands have healed from the severe burns, repeat the same steps with a gas piston rifle (try a POF) and report back with your findings.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigBlue&Goldie</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deersniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well for one, a piston keeps the action cooler. A lot cooler.</div></div>
I can't say I have ever had an issue with any DI gun's action getting hot?</div></div>
Hmmm, maybe it's because you actually have to use the rifle for the action to get hot?
Here's something you can experiment with.
Go fire a couple hundred rounds through a gas impingement operated rifle as fast as you can, remove the upper, and then remove the bolt carrier group with your bare hands.
After your hands have healed from the severe burns, repeat the same steps with a gas piston rifle (try a POF) and report back with your findings.
Re: Any piston varmint rifles?
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=51936
DI bolts/carriers don't get as warm as many people think they do.
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=51936
DI bolts/carriers don't get as warm as many people think they do.
Re: Any piston varmint rifles?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Force_Multiplier</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marksman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I expect that everyone who says pistons are not needed only uses a 1903 bolt action rifle, doesn't have a cell phone, and gets around by horse and buggy. Because hey, if something works, then why bother with any sort of innovation? And besides, change is scary.
I'm looking really hard at the LWRC. I hear great things about the POF, but I really don't like their hand guard. </div></div>
all that would make sense....except that the short stroke gas piston system is not the innovation...DI is... </div></div>
lol
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Force_Multiplier</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marksman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I expect that everyone who says pistons are not needed only uses a 1903 bolt action rifle, doesn't have a cell phone, and gets around by horse and buggy. Because hey, if something works, then why bother with any sort of innovation? And besides, change is scary.
I'm looking really hard at the LWRC. I hear great things about the POF, but I really don't like their hand guard. </div></div>
all that would make sense....except that the short stroke gas piston system is not the innovation...DI is... </div></div>
lol
Re: Any piston varmint rifles?
Thanks.....apparently I have never used my DI guns enough?
My guns run 100%, clean easy, and the only issue with heat is the barrels getting warm.........but then again, its cold here in AZ and I don't use my shit.
If piston systems are so great, why don't you see renown gunsmiths using them in competition rifles?
Oh, and regarding your beloved POF, they are the only rifle I have ever shot that took 2 guys and a hammer to open up after a round got stuck in the DIRTY chamber after only 400rds.........relentless reliability. I thought one of the perks of the piston was how clean they run?
Thanks.....apparently I have never used my DI guns enough?
My guns run 100%, clean easy, and the only issue with heat is the barrels getting warm.........but then again, its cold here in AZ and I don't use my shit.
If piston systems are so great, why don't you see renown gunsmiths using them in competition rifles?
Oh, and regarding your beloved POF, they are the only rifle I have ever shot that took 2 guys and a hammer to open up after a round got stuck in the DIRTY chamber after only 400rds.........relentless reliability. I thought one of the perks of the piston was how clean they run?
Re: Any piston varmint rifles?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KillShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Go fire a couple hundred rounds through a gas impingement operated rifle as fast as you can, remove the upper, and then remove the bolt carrier group with your bare hands.
</div></div>
I have a question...why the hell would you need/want to remove the BCG right after firing such a string!? haha
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KillShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Go fire a couple hundred rounds through a gas impingement operated rifle as fast as you can, remove the upper, and then remove the bolt carrier group with your bare hands.
</div></div>
I have a question...why the hell would you need/want to remove the BCG right after firing such a string!? haha
Re: Any piston varmint rifles?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pdogsbeware</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KillShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Go fire a couple hundred rounds through a gas impingement operated rifle as fast as you can, remove the upper, and then remove the bolt carrier group with your bare hands.
</div></div>
I have a question...why the hell would you need/want to remove the BCG right after firing such a string!? haha </div></div>
You would want to remove bolt in several events. One is during bad jam on the range say during a match or timed training scenario like a course were you are graded including weapons failures.
Two is if your out ground hog hunting "VARMINT HUNTING" for same reason.
Three to relube your bolt during extended shoots (I like to pull my bolt half to 2/3 out of my receiver in order to better lube the rails).
However I still use a DI rifle and do this bare handed, I just got good at moving fast enough to keep from being burnt. I have shot my AR15 and while in, my M4 to the point you couldn't grab the magazine well on the rifle without gloves. Is it good for the barrels no but I didn't have to pay for ammo or parts and I got great training out of it. My guns I do the same and just use cheap barrels that I verify the quality on to keep from blowing myself up.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pdogsbeware</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KillShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Go fire a couple hundred rounds through a gas impingement operated rifle as fast as you can, remove the upper, and then remove the bolt carrier group with your bare hands.
</div></div>
I have a question...why the hell would you need/want to remove the BCG right after firing such a string!? haha </div></div>
You would want to remove bolt in several events. One is during bad jam on the range say during a match or timed training scenario like a course were you are graded including weapons failures.
Two is if your out ground hog hunting "VARMINT HUNTING" for same reason.
Three to relube your bolt during extended shoots (I like to pull my bolt half to 2/3 out of my receiver in order to better lube the rails).
However I still use a DI rifle and do this bare handed, I just got good at moving fast enough to keep from being burnt. I have shot my AR15 and while in, my M4 to the point you couldn't grab the magazine well on the rifle without gloves. Is it good for the barrels no but I didn't have to pay for ammo or parts and I got great training out of it. My guns I do the same and just use cheap barrels that I verify the quality on to keep from blowing myself up.
