I have a new 3-20 Schmidt Bender MTC locking CCW. It is mounted on a 308 surgeon rifle. The action has a built-in 20 MOA rail i believe. I bore sighted it today, then zeroed the turret caps. After zeroing I have about 7.5 mils of negative elevation, which is useless. Does this sound right? How can I fix this, apart from getting a 20 MOA rail/ring setup?
Rifle Scopes Schmidt Bender zero question
- Thread starter TestnDoc
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Re: Schmidt Bender zero question
how much "up" do you have? your only gona need 12 to 13 mils for 1200 yards.... which is probably about the limitations of a 308.
If it really bothers you, swap out the base for a 40 minute, or get a 20 minute alpha mount or sphur mount.
how much "up" do you have? your only gona need 12 to 13 mils for 1200 yards.... which is probably about the limitations of a 308.
If it really bothers you, swap out the base for a 40 minute, or get a 20 minute alpha mount or sphur mount.
Re: Schmidt Bender zero question
I have a total of 23 mils, so about 16 up left
I have a total of 23 mils, so about 16 up left
Re: Schmidt Bender zero question
so you can spend like 300 bucks on a ring mount setup to get that last 3.5 mils..... which you most likely will probably never use. Personally I'd say 16 is enough for a 308.
so you can spend like 300 bucks on a ring mount setup to get that last 3.5 mils..... which you most likely will probably never use. Personally I'd say 16 is enough for a 308.
Re: Schmidt Bender zero question
Thanks for your help. Spuhr makes a real nice 20 MOA base
Thanks for your help. Spuhr makes a real nice 20 MOA base
Re: Schmidt Bender zero question
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TestnDoc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a new 3-20 Schmidt Bender MTC locking CCW. It is mounted on a 308 surgeon rifle. The action has a built-in 20 MOA rail i believe. I bore sighted it today, then zeroed the turret caps. After zeroing I have about 7.5 mils of negative elevation, which is useless. Does this sound right? How can I fix this, apart from getting a 20 MOA rail/ring setup? </div></div>
It's useless only if you need more up elevation, which you don't and won't. On the other hand, staying away from the erector limits allows you to have more windage, which you actually might need. As you get closer to the end of erector travel, the windage limits decrease.
Bottom line: You're all set, don't ruin it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TestnDoc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a new 3-20 Schmidt Bender MTC locking CCW. It is mounted on a 308 surgeon rifle. The action has a built-in 20 MOA rail i believe. I bore sighted it today, then zeroed the turret caps. After zeroing I have about 7.5 mils of negative elevation, which is useless. Does this sound right? How can I fix this, apart from getting a 20 MOA rail/ring setup? </div></div>
It's useless only if you need more up elevation, which you don't and won't. On the other hand, staying away from the erector limits allows you to have more windage, which you actually might need. As you get closer to the end of erector travel, the windage limits decrease.
Bottom line: You're all set, don't ruin it.
Re: Schmidt Bender zero question
According to the schmidt site...that scope has 26 mils of total travel...in any case i think you are good to go with your current setup unless your going to be doing ELR often.
According to the schmidt site...that scope has 26 mils of total travel...in any case i think you are good to go with your current setup unless your going to be doing ELR often.
Re: Schmidt Bender zero question
Actually, every one I've seen has at least 30 mil of total internal travel but is limited to 26 by the knob as is the 5-25.
I've seen as much as 33-35 mil of internal travel in a few 5-25s.
To the OP, unless you absolutely need the additional elevation adjustment I would suggest leaving things as they are. Your erector spring will live a long and happier life not being under full compression most of the time.
Actually, every one I've seen has at least 30 mil of total internal travel but is limited to 26 by the knob as is the 5-25.
I've seen as much as 33-35 mil of internal travel in a few 5-25s.
To the OP, unless you absolutely need the additional elevation adjustment I would suggest leaving things as they are. Your erector spring will live a long and happier life not being under full compression most of the time.
Re: Schmidt Bender zero question
Thank you for this question.
I have a 5-25 on order and plan on using a Spuhr 20 MOA mount, rifle has a mono 0 pict rail. .308, greatest distance I can hope for is 1000 yards every blue moon.
I'm new to optics. My scope is a few months out and I have been wondering if the 44 moa Spuhr would be better.
From this I'm understanding the limitations of my cartridge and the ranges I expect to shoot at will work with a 5-25 on a 20 moa mount.
Thank you for this question.
I have a 5-25 on order and plan on using a Spuhr 20 MOA mount, rifle has a mono 0 pict rail. .308, greatest distance I can hope for is 1000 yards every blue moon.
I'm new to optics. My scope is a few months out and I have been wondering if the 44 moa Spuhr would be better.
From this I'm understanding the limitations of my cartridge and the ranges I expect to shoot at will work with a 5-25 on a 20 moa mount.
Re: Schmidt Bender zero question
To the OP, yes, it sounds about right. While each setup varies a bit my experience is that to utilize the "greatest" amount of elevevation with most of the S&B long range glass you need a 35/40 MOA base. As mentioned several times, on a practical note the trajectory of your selected cartidge limits your range and unless you want to be raining transonic projectiles just to say you can it won't really be worthwhile anyway.
To the OP, yes, it sounds about right. While each setup varies a bit my experience is that to utilize the "greatest" amount of elevevation with most of the S&B long range glass you need a 35/40 MOA base. As mentioned several times, on a practical note the trajectory of your selected cartidge limits your range and unless you want to be raining transonic projectiles just to say you can it won't really be worthwhile anyway.
Re: Schmidt Bender zero question
According to Schmidt Bender Website here are the "click Values" for the 3-20:
Click value Elevation Windage Direction Single Turn Double Turn
1 cm 0-130 cm ± 60 cm cw x
1 cm 0-230 cm ± 60 cm cw x
¼ MOA 0-32 MOA ± 14 MOA cw x
¼ MOA 0-56 MOA ± 14 MOA cw x
<span style="font-weight: bold">0,1 mrad 0-22 mrad ± 6 mrad ccw x </span>
0,1 mrad -1-12 mrad ± 6 mrad cw x
cw = clock wise
ccw = counter clock wise
So having about 7 mils of negative elevation( not sure what the proper term is) allows me to have 15 or so mils of elevation. Only negative is that I have to go into the second turn pretty quickly.
Another negative is if you want to rezero very quickly you have to be looking at the turret markings instead of cranking the elevation knob clockwise until it meets resistance. I think these scopes have a <span style="font-weight: bold">Zero Stop</span>, but I am not sure how to set it. I may be confused as to what zero stop is??
According to Schmidt Bender Website here are the "click Values" for the 3-20:
Click value Elevation Windage Direction Single Turn Double Turn
1 cm 0-130 cm ± 60 cm cw x
1 cm 0-230 cm ± 60 cm cw x
¼ MOA 0-32 MOA ± 14 MOA cw x
¼ MOA 0-56 MOA ± 14 MOA cw x
<span style="font-weight: bold">0,1 mrad 0-22 mrad ± 6 mrad ccw x </span>
0,1 mrad -1-12 mrad ± 6 mrad cw x
cw = clock wise
ccw = counter clock wise
So having about 7 mils of negative elevation( not sure what the proper term is) allows me to have 15 or so mils of elevation. Only negative is that I have to go into the second turn pretty quickly.
Another negative is if you want to rezero very quickly you have to be looking at the turret markings instead of cranking the elevation knob clockwise until it meets resistance. I think these scopes have a <span style="font-weight: bold">Zero Stop</span>, but I am not sure how to set it. I may be confused as to what zero stop is??
Re: Schmidt Bender zero question
Into the second turn pretty quickly? It has 14 mils per turn so unless you are shooting over 1200 yards regularly with that .308 you won't see the second turn very often.
There is a zero stop. It should stop your knob about .4-.6 mils below the point in that you zero the scope if set up properly.
Into the second turn pretty quickly? It has 14 mils per turn so unless you are shooting over 1200 yards regularly with that .308 you won't see the second turn very often.
There is a zero stop. It should stop your knob about .4-.6 mils below the point in that you zero the scope if set up properly.
Re: Schmidt Bender zero question
The zero stop is built into the turret cap (or at least it is on my 5-25s).
15mils is more than enough for a 308, I would say shoot it and enjoy.
The zero stop is built into the turret cap (or at least it is on my 5-25s).
15mils is more than enough for a 308, I would say shoot it and enjoy.
Re: Schmidt Bender zero question
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Into the second turn pretty quickly? It has 14 mils per turn so unless you are shooting over 1200 yards regularly with that .308 you won't see the second turn very often.
There is a zero stop. It should stop your knob about .4-.6 mils below the point in that you zero the scope if set up properly. </div></div>
I am sure I am not explaining myself clearly. I sighted in the 3-20 on my rifle, rotate the turret cap to Zero, then relock the set screws. This leave me with 7 mils or so of "negative elevation". I am able to turn the turret less than zero (clockwise on my CCW scope) to about 7 mils. Mine does not stop .4-.6 mils below. Is there something I need to do to set the Zero Stop? Thanks
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Into the second turn pretty quickly? It has 14 mils per turn so unless you are shooting over 1200 yards regularly with that .308 you won't see the second turn very often.
There is a zero stop. It should stop your knob about .4-.6 mils below the point in that you zero the scope if set up properly. </div></div>
I am sure I am not explaining myself clearly. I sighted in the 3-20 on my rifle, rotate the turret cap to Zero, then relock the set screws. This leave me with 7 mils or so of "negative elevation". I am able to turn the turret less than zero (clockwise on my CCW scope) to about 7 mils. Mine does not stop .4-.6 mils below. Is there something I need to do to set the Zero Stop? Thanks
Re: Schmidt Bender zero question
Do you have the manual that will tell you how to set the zero stop? Mine will only turn 4 clicks in the neg. direction.
Do you have the manual that will tell you how to set the zero stop? Mine will only turn 4 clicks in the neg. direction.
Re: Schmidt Bender zero question
Testndoc..
You do not have you turret adjusted to zero properly, you are in the 2nd turn.
Is the little ring on top the turret totally flush?? If not, then you are in the 2nd rev.
When adjusted properly you should have about .2-.3 mils under the zero on that model (at least that's what mine is, the 5-25 has about .5-.6 under 0)
Testndoc..
You do not have you turret adjusted to zero properly, you are in the 2nd turn.
Is the little ring on top the turret totally flush?? If not, then you are in the 2nd rev.
When adjusted properly you should have about .2-.3 mils under the zero on that model (at least that's what mine is, the 5-25 has about .5-.6 under 0)
Re: Schmidt Bender zero question
Yes, the second turn ring indicator is flush.
Yes, the second turn ring indicator is flush.
Re: Schmidt Bender zero question
Well, I'm not familiar with the 3-20 but if the double turn turret is similar to previous models you loosen the set screws and raise the turret cap up about 1/4" and re-tighten them. Make your adjustments to zero and when finished you loosen the set screws, lower the turret cap, back it around to zero (all the way, eliminating the yellow double turn indicator) and then tighten it all up again. You should not be able to reduce your elevation from zero by 7 mills if properly set!
Well, I'm not familiar with the 3-20 but if the double turn turret is similar to previous models you loosen the set screws and raise the turret cap up about 1/4" and re-tighten them. Make your adjustments to zero and when finished you loosen the set screws, lower the turret cap, back it around to zero (all the way, eliminating the yellow double turn indicator) and then tighten it all up again. You should not be able to reduce your elevation from zero by 7 mills if properly set!
Re: Schmidt Bender zero question
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TestnDoc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, the second turn ring indicator is flush. </div></div>
On a locking MTC MRAD knob configuration you should only have .2 mil adjustment below zero.
Loosen the two set screws and dial down to see if you can get another revolution to "0". Tighten the set screws and if this doesn't remedy the problem it needs to come to the service center so I can evaluate it.
Jerry
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TestnDoc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, the second turn ring indicator is flush. </div></div>
On a locking MTC MRAD knob configuration you should only have .2 mil adjustment below zero.
Loosen the two set screws and dial down to see if you can get another revolution to "0". Tighten the set screws and if this doesn't remedy the problem it needs to come to the service center so I can evaluate it.
Jerry
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