First OCW, opinions please

[MissoulaZ28]

I shot my first OCW test today with my 223 and would like to get opinions on what to move forward with.
The rifle is a Stevens 200 with a factory Savage 26" stainless barrel and Durramaxx stock, Vortex 5-15 Viper HS scope.
All loads used straight from the box Nosler Brass, CCI BR-4 primers and Varget powder. Started at 24.3gr stopped at 26.1gr with 0.3 steps.
Bullets were 69gr Matchkings, and 68gr Hornady BTHP.
OAL was 2.38 for the Sierra, 2.372 for the Hornady, both are .035 off the lands.
Shot at 100 yards with a slight wind from 1:30, I tried to keep shots in the calmer wind times, maybe 5mph or so.

The Matchking doesn't look great, I'm not really seeing anything to keep loading up.
The Hornady BTHP on the other hand seems to work great in this gun. The way I'm reading the target and how I understand the OCW concept I'll rerun 24.9-25.5 in .2 steps and go from there.

Let me know what your opinions are on what I shot.
Anybody see anything I'm not?

 

[flashhole]

Re: First OCW, opinions please

You need to do the test at 200 - 300 yards to see nodes pop up.

 

[Trevor300wsm]

Re: First OCW, opinions please

25.3-25.5 is a commonly known "good" Varget load. If you do a search on here, you'll find info on it. Re-run in the area you stated and see how it does. Also, AFTER you find the best charge, you can vary the seating depth +/- .010 either way to see where it takes you. It's best to do these at 300yds, but I assure you that they work fine at 100yds. I've done a many of them this way.

***See how your load goes from horizontal dispersion at 25.5 to vertical dispersion at 25.8? This is telling you somthing

 

[X-fan]

Re: First OCW, opinions please

Not often the 69SMk wont shoot...Remeber you are looking for POI changes here.

I would try both in the 25.3-25.5 range(as suggested).

Then dial seating depth.

 

[MissoulaZ28]

Re: First OCW, opinions please

I'll try the Matchking's again in that middle range. The hornady's will definitely be shot at 300yds next time, with teh wind being gusty like it was I figured 100 would take the wind out of the equation.

 

[wrhunter]

Re: First OCW, opinions please

What they said plus increase to 4 or 5 round groups. You have several groups with 2 rounds touching and a third round a ways off. It would be nice to know where a fourth or fifth round went to see if it was you or the load.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: First OCW, opinions please

I think that under windy conditions, horizontal values are less reliable and critical than vertical values.

Others may disagree, but I do my load testing at 150 yards to A) magnifiy the effects of dispersion, and B) minimize the consquences of inconstant winds. For my purposes, both conditions are satisfied at 150yd.

I would never base a load decision on a single group of a particular charge weight. I would prefer a minimum of three groups (including confirmations refired), and a minimum number of 5 shots per group.

I will also do several 10 shot groups as final confirmation; I do not intend building what could potentially be several thousand rounds based on sketchy/skimpy data sets.

Smaller is smaller, and it takes repetition to deterimine what that really means. There are <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">no</span></span> shortcuts to <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">reliable</span></span> load development.

The opinons of others may be interesting but it's your opinion that has the only real weight. I wouldn't recommend letting others make your decisions for you. Man up, and make up your own mind.

Greg

 

[MissoulaZ28]

Re: First OCW, opinions please

I ran the Hornady at 200 and 300 to see what would show up. The 24.9 load is giving great verticle spreads, but the 25.5 and 25.7 are giving better moa results. had a couple called fliers and left them out of the groups.

I'm going to shoot groups with 25.5, 25.6 and 25.7 again to see if they hold up then start doing seating depth changes.

 

[okiefired]

Re: First OCW, opinions please

After seeing your first groups I imediately liked the 25.5 Hornandy loads. Then after seeing the 200 yrd grps I had doubts because of the verticle stringing, I liked its POI though. Think I'd play with seating depth there and double check my charge weight and neck tension for consistancy. BTW, whats the twist on your barrel?

okie

 

[MissoulaZ28]

Re: First OCW, opinions please

It's a savage 26" long 1-9 twist factory barrel. Charge weights should be good, all done on a chargemaster. the verticle stringing on the 200yd group made me wonder also. I'm going to re shoot the 25.5-25.7 early next week to see what happens, then I'll start doing seating depth changes.

 

[jhelmuth]

Re: First OCW, opinions please

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MissoulaZ28</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's a savage 26" long 1-9 twist factory barrel. Charge weights should be good, all done on a chargemaster. the verticle stringing on the 200yd group made me wonder also. I'm going to re shoot the 25.5-25.7 early next week to see what happens, then I'll start doing seating depth changes. </div></div>

Typically, the Savage 26" 1:9 barrel shoots the 69gr SMK superior to any other bullet. Your results are looking good...

 

[Paladin2147]

Re: First OCW, opinions please

You would do well the heed Greg's advice. You also might try cleaning the crap out of the bbl.. Those groups look sloppy to me for a .223 and Varget.

 

[Unsichtbar]

Re: First OCW, opinions please

Been doing OCW at long time, if you follow the directions pick one round from your selected spread loads. Shoot those At 300 yd should be less than 1 Moa pick middle load the play with seating depth at 100 to get tightest group. Optimum barrel time tuned to you harmonic

That should be OCW of course the test at distance

 

[okiefired]

Re: First OCW, opinions please

I agree with jim that your 9 twist should work with the bullets you're testing. I cant see any problem with your testing and what you plan to do. Be sure and check neck tension consistancy, many dont see how critical it is. Measure the OD of your neck after resizing and then after bullet seating, difference will be neck tension. .0015 should be enough. Sorry, got no idea of your level of experience. Good luck.

okie

 

[jhelmuth]

Re: First OCW, opinions please

BTW... what is an OCW test (or - how is it done)?

 

[okiefired]

Re: First OCW, opinions please

Here ya go Jim:

http://optimalchargeweight.embarqspace.com/#/ocw-instructions/4529817134

 

[callen3615]

Re: First OCW, opinions please

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: okiefired</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here ya go Jim:

http://optimalchargeweight.embarqspace.com/#/ocw-instructions/4529817134 </div></div>

I was just reading through that and noticed that he said to clean factory barrels ever 15-18 rounds.

Is that necessary? If so ive never cleaned any gun that much. I havent cleaned my 308 more than 3 or 4 times. Ive heard that most shooters dont clean but every 200-300 rounds to keep the copper fouling in the barrel.

 

[Deadshot2]

Re: First OCW, opinions please

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cpt. obvious</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: okiefired</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here ya go Jim:

http://optimalchargeweight.embarqspace.com/#/ocw-instructions/4529817134 </div></div>

I was just reading through that and noticed that he said to clean factory barrels ever 15-18 rounds.

Is that necessary? If so ive never cleaned any gun that much. I havent cleaned my 308 more than 3 or 4 times. Ive heard that most shooters dont clean but every 200-300 rounds to keep the copper fouling in the barrel. </div></div>

Read what German Salazar, ShootersJournal.com says:

“While I use bronze brushes, I don’t make too many passes with them. I don’t try to make a barrel look unfired with my cleaning routine, I simply get it clean enough to make it through the next 70 rounds without losing accuracy due to fouling. My barrel has over 2900 rounds and the accuracy has not deteriorated at all since new.”

I don't do much other than running a brush through the bore, followed by a dry patch before a session. About every 200 rounds or so I run some Gunslick Foam in the bore to get rid of any extra fouling and copper.

I just keep remembering a comment by Gale McMillan on barrel cleaning and the obsession some have with it. He said "Monkey See, Monkey Do". Someone will look down the line, seeing someone cleaning their bore every 5 rounds, and just do the same themselves. Nobody ever notices the guy that just shoots and is just as accurate as the others.

 

[okiefired]

Re: First OCW, opinions please

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cpt. obvious</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: okiefired</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here ya go Jim:

http://optimalchargeweight.embarqspace.com/#/ocw-instructions/4529817134 </div></div>

I was just reading through that and noticed that he said to clean factory barrels ever 15-18 rounds.

Is that necessary? If so ive never cleaned any gun that much. I havent cleaned my 308 more than 3 or 4 times. Ive heard that most shooters dont clean but every 200-300 rounds to keep the copper fouling in the barrel. </div></div>

"most shooters" aren't doing load developement every time they hit the range. I sure dont clean anywhere near every 15 rnds either (more like every 50 or so with my factory barrels and even then not agressively) but I do like starting load developement with a clean barrel after a few foulers. Opinions on cleaning are like assholes and really, they should vary between rifles.

okie