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Reloading NEWBIE. Help

D

Dynamic Response

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jan 20, 2012
328
3
Illinois
Hey guys Ive been shooting for years and been doing a lot of long range shooting lately and needless to say ammo is getting pretty damn expensive. So I think its about time I start to reload. Ive been reading as much as I can lately on reloading but need some help still. So if any of you can point me in the right direction that would be great.

I still need to buy everything so would like some suggestions on presses, scales, dies, pretty much everything and anything Im going to need. I don't mind spending the money and getting the best equipment I can the first time.

The only thing I have is about 1000 rounds of lake city XM80 cases and a few hundred American Eagle 308 cases. Im interested in reloading manly 308 for my LMT 308 MWS. Im thinking 155g scnears and 175 SMK.

Any input or advice is highly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
 
Re: Reloading NEWBIE. Help

I run RCBS everything (press, dies, trimmer, case master, trim-mate, all the way down to their cutting and cleaning tools). Some prefer to use other brands of tool but I myself would rather have everything matching. If I were you I would try to obtain as much quality brass as you can due to the fact that it is about 60% of the ammunition cost then go from there. Just remember, case preparation is the most important aspect of match grade ammo. This requires a great deal of work but will pay of at the range and includes, trimming to length(trim pro), uniforming primer pocket, deburring flash hole/case mouth, chamfer case mouth, and neck concentricity and bullet run out(case master good for both). Regardless of the work required it beats breaking out the pocket book for match grade ammo at your local supplier. Good luck and let me know if you have any other more specific questions.
 
Re: Reloading NEWBIE. Help

A few years back I had to go through this very PITA process. I read, and re-read weeks on end - countless hours for close to 3 months. After reading so much - I really wasn't sure if I wanted to re-load. I would have been an idiot to not though.
What I did - was find the best component(s) for the price. I didn't buy everything to match - I bought everything based off of reviews and how well it worked. I wanted quality equipment - but also didn't want to over-spend when not needed.

#1 - if you are reloading for accuracy, don't start using mixed brass. Took me a few months to realize this years back...LOL...all the cases have different capacities - and will not give you similar results.

Reloading for accuracy = consistency. Consistency is everything, remember that.

Single Stage press - there are many. I opted for the RCBS Rockchucker Supreme. I think any of the single stages would work fine.

Full Length Dies (for my .223 AR's and .308 FL sizing)- I found that I like the Forster Ultra Dies due to the lower price, good quality, and micro-seater. I have the standard RCBS's and the flat-blade adjusting bullet seater sucks ass. The Lee Dies have a nice finger-adjusting bullet seater which works well - and they are cheap - and have given me less runout.

<span style="text-decoration: line-through">Neck sizing Die .308 (only use with brass fired out of your gun - and after using this die - only use this ammo in your gun)- I was skeptical about the low priced Lee Collet Neck sizing die but it has revealed my most accurate groups. PS - you don't need to lube when neck-sizing! Huge time saver right there. Cons - you can only run 2-3 neck sizings before needing to FullLength size. And - sometimes your bolt is a little harder to close when you chamber a round. </span>
nevermind - forgot you are running a gas-gun. Neck sizing won't work for you.

Scales -
Your first should be a beam-scale. I found the Dillon Eliminator to be both easy on the pocket book, but quality - and precise.
Electronic - the silver Frankford one for $30-$40 works good. I use it to weigh cases.
The red MTM - I didn't like.

Powder Tricklers - I only see one choice here. The Redding powder trickler. The Redding weighs about 5 times as much as all of the others - but costs about the same. No brainer there as far as I'm concerned. Works excellent.

Powder droppers - I use the RCBS Uniflow to get me a grain below what exact measurement I'm trying to achieve. I then move the powder pan over to the Dillon scale, and use the Redding podwer dropper to achieve the exact weight.

Primer seating tools - the RCBS Multi - I believe had the best reviews, but you must use a rubber-band to hold the primer tray in. I've had no problems seating primers perfectly with mine - but have never used any other one, so not sure there.

Trimmers - In my reviews I found the Forster Original to be the most precise - for the cost. + Forster 3-way case trimmers. I use a electric drill attached to the trimmer for quicker cutting.

Debur/Chamfer - I originally purchased the RCBS Trim-Mate - and wish I wouldn't have after finding the Forster 3-way trimmer attachments. The 3-way trimmers, Trim, Chamfer, And Debur the Case - all at the same time. This eliminates 2 PITA processes. The primer pockets can be cleaned/uniformed more easily with a hand-held drill and primer pocket cleaning tool chucked inside.

Case gauges - I think I have a Lyman, and some Wilsons. I prefer the Wilsons - but a case gauge is a case gauge. Nothing to lose sleep over.

Digital Calipers - I went with Hornady because it was on sale. I question this purchase frequently. I didn't look into these that much to be honest.

Tumblers - I went Lyman because of the cost/reviews. It sucks it doesn't have an on/off switch though.

Media Separators - The RCBS green one works great because it contains all the dust inside the case. You DO want this if you tumble in a garage. The hinges suck on the thing though. Mine broke - it still works just fine though.

Case media - The Lizzard bedding at Petsmart/Petco works great. It's cheap - and in thousands of rounds I haven't had any stuck in the primer pockets.

Case Lube - Hornady one-shit sucks. RCBS works okay. Imperial Die was is worlds better.


Hope any of that helps. I'm sure I missed a bunch that others will touch on. Good luck and have fun!
 
Re: Reloading NEWBIE. Help

your not going to save money reloading , especially if your desire is to make long range ammuntion.
 
Re: Reloading NEWBIE. Help

"I don't mind spending the money and getting the best equipment I can the first time."

Get a Chargemaster automatic powder dispenser (and do the straw mod) and you will have a lifetime of reloading bliss.
Your average charge will be within 2 individual kernels of powder and very accurate and while it's weighing out your next charge you can have the bullet already seated in your Forster Co-Axial press with your Redding Competition dies and when your done shooting throw the brass in the Thumbler's Tumbler with stainless media and in 20 minutes your basically ready to start over.
 
Re: Reloading NEWBIE. Help

Yes, that is the ChargeMaster. It's an excellent piece of kit. When you want to upgrade from a beam scale to digital, it's definitely worth spending more and getting the CM.

The straw trick helps resolve overweight charges with certain powders. Check out these links:

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1228463

http://weww.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3232010

https://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2777472
 
Re: Reloading NEWBIE. Help

I started with an RBCS kit and a few RBCS extras. That was 30 years ago. Most any of the majors brands will work fine. I tend to stay away from Lee tools because of some early issues I experienced (not intended to be a knock on every tool they make or on those who use a lot of their stuff). Maybe it's just that old adage about getting what you pay for.

I generally agree with what blacktaco posted above, except to note that RBCS makes a three-way cutter head for their trimmer. Maybe it wasn't available when he was going through that stage. The premium trimmers are the Gracey and the Giraud. I have both and am still trying to decide which one I like best. The Giraud is the fancier machine with a better (newer) overall design, but it won't let you adjust your cutter head like the Gracey. The Giraud gives you a knife-edge on the case rim. The Gracey gives you whatever shape of rim you set it for.

Over the years my tools have all changed several times. I still use that first Rock Chucker press along with several other brands and types. I've tried many brands of dies and ended up with Redding, L.E. Wilson, and Forster for my rifles. I generally use RBCS or Hornady dies for pistols.

I made what I thought was some pretty decent ammo using that first entry-level gear. I was shooting under MOA in most all of my guns at 100 yards. It was only when I started going to longer ranges that I started to see the limitations in my tools and my techniques. Getting rid of any possible source of inconsistency is the name of the game for long-range work, and entry-level tools generally aren't up to that task. Neither are entry-level techniques.

Don't expect to jump in and start making premium long-range ammo right off the bat. This stuff is just like many other activities - you have to learn to walk before you can run. But you can make some pretty good ammo right away if you take your time and pay attention to detail. Figuring out which details are the important ones is part of the challenge and the fun.
 
Re: Reloading NEWBIE. Help

I use RCBS single stage press, chargemaster, redding forster and RCBS dies RCBS priming tool, Lyman trimmer and cabelas tumbler which has worked for 7+ years without issues and olive oil for case lubricant ( I learned this from an old friend and it works great.) upgrading to a redding T-7 press, Lyman turbosonic cleaner and electronic trimmer.
 
Re: Reloading NEWBIE. Help

Reloading is fun and rewarding to start with, but it turns into a JOB sooner or later.
As for saving money, that is debatable. I say you will, after you've depreciated out the initial cost of your equipment. Just buy the good shit to start with, no one really wants our used junk.
And, once you step away from .223, and .308, you just about have to reload.
 
Re: Reloading NEWBIE. Help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigB308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I still need to buy everything so would like some suggestions on presses, scales, dies, pretty much everything and anything Im going to need. I don't mind spending the money and getting the best equipment I can the first time.
</div></div>
BigB- I felt the same way. Buy the right stuff the first time. I'm a beginner reloader and I've been doing this for about 6 months. Not saying these are the best choices but it is what I picked after reading a ton on this site. The google search will get you all the info you can possibly stand on opinions of different gear.
<span style="font-weight: bold">Forster Co-ax press</span>... love this thing, the closing case holder jaws and self centering properties are awesome
<span style="font-weight: bold">Redding Type S match dieset</span>... with the micrometer seater and TiN bushing... no troubles with these so far
<span style="font-weight: bold">Thumbler tumbler and SS media</span>... no need to clean primer pockets, they come out clean. I use Lemmoshine and Dawn and tumble for 1 to 1.5 hrs
<span style="font-weight: bold">RCBS 1010 scale</span>... It is nice but repeatability is not as tight as I'd like it. The electronic scales I looked at were not even close to what I wanted from a repeatability (drift) and lag perspective. Everyone agrees that the Prometheus is the best scale/powder thrower combo but cost and availability are a hurdle. The heart of the Prometheus is a very sensitive mechanical balance. My thought is that I want to be in the same ballpark as the Prometheus in terms of repeatability and I'll just be slower for now. Although I can spit out weighed and trickled charges about every 20 sec with my current process for 20-30 rounds, the Prometheus can do that all day in less than 10 s per charge. I just ordered a Scott Parker tuned scale and we'll see how that goes for the next 6 months or so. The other scale on my list is the Sartorius GD-503 as it uses magnetic force restoration and does not suffer from the drift and lag that strain gauge based scales do. If I'm not satisfied with that set-up, I guess I'll eventually break down and rent a Prometheus.
<span style="font-weight: bold">Lee Powder drop</span>... it's probably the cheapest but also the most repeatable you can buy. The Harrell guys won't agree with me. Best $20 i've spent on my set-up. The charges are accurate enough that I only need to trickle in a few grains to top off each load.
<span style="font-weight: bold">RCBS Trickler</span>... works fine in combo with the 1010 and Lee powder thrower. Been thinking about the Omega trickler though
<span style="font-weight: bold">Lee decapper</span>... again cheap but probably one of the best ones out there. I've decapped about 5000 rounds with mine so far with no bending or breakage.
<span style="font-weight: bold">Hornady Measuring stuff</span>... Bullet ogive, headspace gauge, and chamber length tool. They work, nothing else to really compare it to. When I'm going for ultimate precision (a real match, not practice)I sort the bullets by ogive to get consistent seating depth.
<span style="font-weight: bold">RCBS Calipers</span>... these are good enough for now, I'll get better later... mitutoyo ball micrometer, calipers etc.
<span style="font-weight: bold">Hornady concentricity gauge</span>... Neat little gauge will take my loaded round with 1 to 3 thousandths and correct them down to ZERO runout. Haven't tested how much impact it has on my precision and accuracy but when I have done this I have had 4" groups at 1000 and one hole groups at 100... but that's with 6mm rounds so it is officially cheating
blush.gif

<span style="font-weight: bold">Lyman VLD chamfer tool</span>... Again cheap and effective... puts a nice chamfered edge on my cases and the bullets slide right in with no galling. No need to go the automated route when you are learning.

Well that's it! I may have some other tools too but I probably haven't used them so I didn't mention them. I have a neck turner but I've never turned any of my necks and I don't have any problems so that tool may last me forever
smile.gif


I want to eventually do a full blown Design of Experiment (DOE) on my reloading and rifle system. There is so much conjecture and anecdotal evidence out there about what influences accuracy and precision the most. I'd like to take a scientific approach and answer the question for myself. The problem is that my process is producing the results I was looking for and so I have just focused on making my process repeatable and the quest for science gets put on the back burner.
 
Re: Reloading NEWBIE. Help

RCBS single stage press
RCBS uniflow
RCBS auto primer
RCBS 10-10 scale
RCBS trim mate
RCBS case trimmer w/power attachment
Lyman 2500 tumbler w/walnut media
RCBS small base sizer dies
Forster Benchrest seater dies
RCBS trickler but I rarely use it
Sierra loading book
Misc powder funnels

Next thing to buy are 3-way trim/chamfer heads for the case trimmer.

If I were to buy it all over again I might not get the trim-mate but other than that everything else would probably be there.

edit: you might want something to remove primer crimps. Super swage from Dillon is nice. I use a deburring tool in a drill.




 
Re: Reloading NEWBIE. Help

I know I wont save that much money reloading. In fact its probably cheaper to buy FGMM 175SMK then it is to reload and Im getting great results with factory ammo. However I really wanted to shoot the Lapua 155g Scenars but the cheapest I can find them is $45 a box so figured I could reload those for half that. In the future Im going to get a 300 win mag or 338 Lapua so I will defiantly have to reload those.
 
Re: Reloading NEWBIE. Help

Hey guys I finally picked up some reloading equipment. Here is the kit I got.

http://www.cabelas.com/presses-dies-cabelas-rcbs-rock-chucker-supreme-deluxe-reloading-kit.shtml

I also picked up some shell holders. So now my next question is which dies should I get? I will be reloading 308 and 300 win mag. I have about 1000 cases fired from my LMT 308 MWS. Ive been reading as much as I can but my head is about to explode. Do I need full length dies or neck sizing dies? Which brand?

What else do you think I will need?
 
Re: Reloading NEWBIE. Help

If you've been firing them from the MWS, you need to be full length resizing them. I use Hornady dies currently; they're giving away 100 free bullets with purchase of dies.
 
Re: Reloading NEWBIE. Help

Can you explain why I need to do full length resizing? I thought If I fired them from the gun I will be reloading for I would just have to resize the neck.

I havent reloaded once just got the equipment last night and trying to learn as much as possible.
 
Re: Reloading NEWBIE. Help

Here is the setup I have

1. Forster Coax Press
2. Forster National Match seating dies. Redding is great too.
3. Thulmers Stainless Tumbler
4. Imperial sizing wax
5. Sinclair International Loading blocks
6. Giraud case trimmer
7. Hornady headspace gauge & ogive gauge.
8. L.E. Wilson case gauge
9. Mitoyoto dial calipers 1 digital 1 analog.
10.RCBS Chargemaster 1500. If you need more accuracy buy a Acculab scale and a Harrell's powder measure. If you really want the cat's meow then you can get a Prometheus II.
11.RCBS Kinetic bullet puller
12. Satern Powder funnel
13.Lyman & Sierra Loading manuals
14.Hornady Priming tool
15.Sinclair International Primer Pocket uniforming tool.
16.A LOT OF PATIENCE.

Keep in mind if you are serious about long range shooting you may want to neck size only. Redding & Forster make excellent bushing neck sizing dies. You may also want to trim your meplat on your bullets and anneal your brass and turn your necks. There are various tools to take the reloading process to this extreme. Me personally if I can bang steel plates at 800 yds I am good.
 
Re: Reloading NEWBIE. Help

I was looking at the RCBS FL Competition dies. Are these worth the extra $$ over the non competition dies? They are 3 times the price.
 
Re: Reloading NEWBIE. Help

BigB308, i would go with RCBS dies and you might want to consider getting the "small base" dies if available.
sometimes semi's will have a problem chambering rounds run through standard die sets.
just something to consider.
 
Re: Reloading NEWBIE. Help

I think I finally got a handle on all of this. Thanks everyone for you input.

I Just returned my rcbs tumbler and bought the thulmers tumbler cabelas had it for $159. Also picked up hornady headspace guages.
 
Re: Reloading NEWBIE. Help

Quick question guys. I set my FL die to bump back .003. Well I noticed that not every case is being pushed back the same. Some are .002 and some are as much as .005. Is this common? Im using RCBS FL dies. the set was like $35. I know they are not the best.
 
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