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Re: And then there are the assholes who say this...
shit, i posted the same thing...
drudge man huh?
shit, i posted the same thing...
drudge man huh?
Re: And then there are the assholes who say this...
Fraid so...
Damn sure don't watch the daily pansy exhibitions at MSNBC. What's their slogan now? Bend forward?
Seems about right.
Fraid so...
Damn sure don't watch the daily pansy exhibitions at MSNBC. What's their slogan now? Bend forward?
Seems about right.
Re: And then there are the assholes who say this...
Dead cops are called heroes everyday and no one is saying we should increase crime; firefighters are often called heroes and no one is lobbying for more arson if they die in a blaze.
The justification that these men are heroes leads to more war is... kind of ridiculous.
There was a time when soldiers were only heroes if they did something extraordinary while in combat, though "heroism" in its more general and abstract form, particularly in a volunteer capacity can be argued I supposed.
Are all fallen soldiers heroes? Well, honestly, no.
But I think the majority would qualify, as the circumstances of going to war and volunteering for it are almost unparalleled in history.
At the end of the day, there is the man who only plays the part (and would never purposely make good on its full end) and the man who in his heart knows he would jump on a grenade, etc. to protect his comrades. Only the latter is the hero, and I pray to God he never has to prove it.
I'd lobby that the modern soldier, on average, isn't a hero by merely putting boots on: the rest of the population is just staffed with overwhelming amounts of downright wimps.
Dead cops are called heroes everyday and no one is saying we should increase crime; firefighters are often called heroes and no one is lobbying for more arson if they die in a blaze.
The justification that these men are heroes leads to more war is... kind of ridiculous.
There was a time when soldiers were only heroes if they did something extraordinary while in combat, though "heroism" in its more general and abstract form, particularly in a volunteer capacity can be argued I supposed.
Are all fallen soldiers heroes? Well, honestly, no.
But I think the majority would qualify, as the circumstances of going to war and volunteering for it are almost unparalleled in history.
At the end of the day, there is the man who only plays the part (and would never purposely make good on its full end) and the man who in his heart knows he would jump on a grenade, etc. to protect his comrades. Only the latter is the hero, and I pray to God he never has to prove it.
I'd lobby that the modern soldier, on average, isn't a hero by merely putting boots on: the rest of the population is just staffed with overwhelming amounts of downright wimps.
Re: And then there are the assholes who say this...
Well, consider the source. My 12 year old granddaughter is a better public speaker.
Wonder what he wanted to be when he grew up? Male, female, other? I'm thinking it wasn't the first.
Well, consider the source. My 12 year old granddaughter is a better public speaker.
Wonder what he wanted to be when he grew up? Male, female, other? I'm thinking it wasn't the first.
Re: And then there are the assholes who say this...
It's designed to wear us down. The funny thing is, the bubble the lefty pussies dwell in is so insulated against any argument against them that they don't realize the ambushes they plod into again and again!
Merely calling any who dispute their flailing insults as homophobes, racists, misogynistic, anti worker, etc., inures them to competition in their minds. But it is all crap: Slowly, inexorably, they are rotting from the inside. The laughable laments of Dan Rather and Keith Olberman provide ample proof of this.
The discrimination against competent journalists, (going all the way into the college level where selection and haranguing of students is commonplace) who may be objective in favor of sure bets who will advocate extreme positions and utter such outrageous horse shit on a regular basis, is patently obvious yet it persists. Were there to be a racial or sexual component so obvious, the civil hounds would be set loose based purely on the appearance of discrimination. Yet enforced ideological conformity is left unremarked, unchallenged, and in fact is essential to the manufacture of horse shit such as the subject of this post.
Not to lunge into the realm of politics but the end of left media can't come soon enough.
It's designed to wear us down. The funny thing is, the bubble the lefty pussies dwell in is so insulated against any argument against them that they don't realize the ambushes they plod into again and again!
Merely calling any who dispute their flailing insults as homophobes, racists, misogynistic, anti worker, etc., inures them to competition in their minds. But it is all crap: Slowly, inexorably, they are rotting from the inside. The laughable laments of Dan Rather and Keith Olberman provide ample proof of this.
The discrimination against competent journalists, (going all the way into the college level where selection and haranguing of students is commonplace) who may be objective in favor of sure bets who will advocate extreme positions and utter such outrageous horse shit on a regular basis, is patently obvious yet it persists. Were there to be a racial or sexual component so obvious, the civil hounds would be set loose based purely on the appearance of discrimination. Yet enforced ideological conformity is left unremarked, unchallenged, and in fact is essential to the manufacture of horse shit such as the subject of this post.
Not to lunge into the realm of politics but the end of left media can't come soon enough.
Re: And then there are the assholes who say this...
I think Ann Coulters twitter response was the best.
"Meanwhile, Ann Coulter took to Twitter to give her assessment of the MSNBC host’s comment. “Chris Hayes ‘Uncomfortable’ Calling Fallen Military ‘Heroes’ — Marines respond by protecting his right to menstruate,” she tweeted."
I think Ann Coulters twitter response was the best.
"Meanwhile, Ann Coulter took to Twitter to give her assessment of the MSNBC host’s comment. “Chris Hayes ‘Uncomfortable’ Calling Fallen Military ‘Heroes’ — Marines respond by protecting his right to menstruate,” she tweeted."
Re: And then there are the assholes who say this...
Ann Coulter, snarky as she might be, and funny to boot, is just appealing to the emotionalism of the right.
Here is a great writeup over at This Ain't Hell: http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=30147
Here is my comment on the article:
"Excellent writeup. I fully agree, and as one who served in boots for 6 years, with 2 tours, I’ll never look back and say I was a hero. I knew some men who had the foundation to be heroes, and I knew some men who, in my opinion, were heroes.
But we are dishonoring the memory of true heroes by saying that because someone got killed with a rocket on the way to Burger King, or merely got a fatal piece of shrapnel while being ferried between secured mega-FOBS is a hero.
A true hero places himself in a situation above and beyond expectations, particularly as concerns the very real possibility he will suffer permanent injury or death. A true hero might even go into a situation understanding he WILL die.
Salivating over an imported and greasy burger, only to wake up in front of the Judgement Seat of Christ, isn’t heroic, it’s just life."
Ann Coulter, snarky as she might be, and funny to boot, is just appealing to the emotionalism of the right.
Here is a great writeup over at This Ain't Hell: http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=30147
Here is my comment on the article:
"Excellent writeup. I fully agree, and as one who served in boots for 6 years, with 2 tours, I’ll never look back and say I was a hero. I knew some men who had the foundation to be heroes, and I knew some men who, in my opinion, were heroes.
But we are dishonoring the memory of true heroes by saying that because someone got killed with a rocket on the way to Burger King, or merely got a fatal piece of shrapnel while being ferried between secured mega-FOBS is a hero.
A true hero places himself in a situation above and beyond expectations, particularly as concerns the very real possibility he will suffer permanent injury or death. A true hero might even go into a situation understanding he WILL die.
Salivating over an imported and greasy burger, only to wake up in front of the Judgement Seat of Christ, isn’t heroic, it’s just life."
Re: And then there are the assholes who say this...
Cav,
It is Ironic that Coulter came in for criticism when she downplayed the wounds suffered by the Former Army captain, Senator and Vietnam vet, Max Cleland who lost his limbs when he went to pick up a dropped grenade after getting off of a helicopter. That the grenade was dropped not by Cleland but by one of his fellow Soldiers is immaterial.
The point Coulter made is in some ways not dissimilar to that made by MSNBC's latest fancy pants insofar that the grenade wasn't thrown at Cleland by the enemy. Thus it was then an accident rather than a heroic act. Sometimes being too particular in defining things seems cold and nasty, especially when a man lost three limbs.
Had Cleland not been serving his country and lost his limbs in some other potentially non-selfless manner, I too might hesitate to offer the moniker of heroism.
That Cleland's friends and colleagues were perhaps liberal in recollecting the history of his injuries; the fact that they were so severe, while in country and on duty, is a distinction I would not exploit as he clearly lost so much over there.
That said, I did find him objectionable at times and in no case did I find the campaign of Saxby Chambliss to be at all dismissive of his service as alleged by the loafers who masquerade as journalists.
When one serves his country, far from his home and loved ones and is killed in combat, killed by a missile while asleep in a barracks 50 miles away, dies in a crash after falling asleep at the wheel of a truck he is driving, or while landing a plane on a carrier deck, a heart attack while talking on the phone, etc., etc., etc...The common thread that runs through all the various permutations is perhaps not as clear as I may believe but it suffices for this civilian that the presumption of selfless devotion to one's country follows the death of our people in uniform until amply proven otherwise.
For some reason the expression, "Don't speak of rope in a hanged man's house" comes to mind.
In short, the panzy on NBC is way out of line and should be horse whipped!
Cav,
It is Ironic that Coulter came in for criticism when she downplayed the wounds suffered by the Former Army captain, Senator and Vietnam vet, Max Cleland who lost his limbs when he went to pick up a dropped grenade after getting off of a helicopter. That the grenade was dropped not by Cleland but by one of his fellow Soldiers is immaterial.
The point Coulter made is in some ways not dissimilar to that made by MSNBC's latest fancy pants insofar that the grenade wasn't thrown at Cleland by the enemy. Thus it was then an accident rather than a heroic act. Sometimes being too particular in defining things seems cold and nasty, especially when a man lost three limbs.
Had Cleland not been serving his country and lost his limbs in some other potentially non-selfless manner, I too might hesitate to offer the moniker of heroism.
That Cleland's friends and colleagues were perhaps liberal in recollecting the history of his injuries; the fact that they were so severe, while in country and on duty, is a distinction I would not exploit as he clearly lost so much over there.
That said, I did find him objectionable at times and in no case did I find the campaign of Saxby Chambliss to be at all dismissive of his service as alleged by the loafers who masquerade as journalists.
When one serves his country, far from his home and loved ones and is killed in combat, killed by a missile while asleep in a barracks 50 miles away, dies in a crash after falling asleep at the wheel of a truck he is driving, or while landing a plane on a carrier deck, a heart attack while talking on the phone, etc., etc., etc...The common thread that runs through all the various permutations is perhaps not as clear as I may believe but it suffices for this civilian that the presumption of selfless devotion to one's country follows the death of our people in uniform until amply proven otherwise.
For some reason the expression, "Don't speak of rope in a hanged man's house" comes to mind.
In short, the panzy on NBC is way out of line and should be horse whipped!
Re: And then there are the assholes who say this...
QQ, I am pretty sure I'm picking up what you're putting down.
I think what the public means when they say hero, heroes, heroism, heroic, etc. is actually "admirable", or something synonymous. That so much of our society is decidedly not admirable, perhaps this is where the distinction blurs.
Heroism is the final level of a warrior, in my opinion. One cannot be more heroic than another, if they indeed are in the company of fellow heroes- directly or abstractly.
Doing one's duty with courage is not heroic, it's the standard. Going above and beyond does a hero make, not the mere wearing of a uniform or even sweating in that uniform to the standard, despite some butterflies.
I'm not saying we should leave the title to only the MOH recipients, nor that there wasn't possibly some unknown element of heroism in those unfortunate deaths. I do think we need to be more careful in how we describe an action if we assign "heroic" to it. Once hero becomes synonymous with "average", what is a hero? Where do we go? Do we declare the fallen as demi-gods?
Having no familiarity with Sen. Cleland, CPT, USA (Ret.), I can't comment on my thoughts as they relate to this thread and Ann Coulter's prodigious, wanton use of polemical sound bites and egocentric worldview to further relevance and book sales.
QQ, I am pretty sure I'm picking up what you're putting down.
I think what the public means when they say hero, heroes, heroism, heroic, etc. is actually "admirable", or something synonymous. That so much of our society is decidedly not admirable, perhaps this is where the distinction blurs.
Heroism is the final level of a warrior, in my opinion. One cannot be more heroic than another, if they indeed are in the company of fellow heroes- directly or abstractly.
Doing one's duty with courage is not heroic, it's the standard. Going above and beyond does a hero make, not the mere wearing of a uniform or even sweating in that uniform to the standard, despite some butterflies.
I'm not saying we should leave the title to only the MOH recipients, nor that there wasn't possibly some unknown element of heroism in those unfortunate deaths. I do think we need to be more careful in how we describe an action if we assign "heroic" to it. Once hero becomes synonymous with "average", what is a hero? Where do we go? Do we declare the fallen as demi-gods?
Having no familiarity with Sen. Cleland, CPT, USA (Ret.), I can't comment on my thoughts as they relate to this thread and Ann Coulter's prodigious, wanton use of polemical sound bites and egocentric worldview to further relevance and book sales.
Re: And then there are the assholes who say this...
While I acknowledge that the following is not the ideal source, it does jibe with my understanding of Senator Cleland's history.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Cleland
While I acknowledge that the following is not the ideal source, it does jibe with my understanding of Senator Cleland's history.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Cleland
Re: And then there are the assholes who say this...
I gotta go back to the motivational pic thread... there are too many big words here for me.
I gotta go back to the motivational pic thread... there are too many big words here for me.
Re: And then there are the assholes who say this...
If Ted Kennedy or a president that never wore the uniform can be buried at Arlington, I can call my fallen comrades heroes. If that causes anyone anguish, contact your therapist.
If Ted Kennedy or a president that never wore the uniform can be buried at Arlington, I can call my fallen comrades heroes. If that causes anyone anguish, contact your therapist.
Re: And then there are the assholes who say this...
Not everyone killed in combat is a hero. Maybe a hero to someone but in general not a hero.
The word is overused but, to some little boy or girl out there that's THEIR hero so that's all that matters.
Not everyone killed in combat is a hero. Maybe a hero to someone but in general not a hero.
The word is overused but, to some little boy or girl out there that's THEIR hero so that's all that matters.
Re: And then there are the assholes who say this...
And now for the perfunctory Nonpology...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">MSNBC Host Issues Apology for Saying He's 'Uncomfortable' with Calling Fallen Soldiers 'Heroes'
7:06 PM, MAY 28, 2012 • BY DANIEL HALPERSingle PagePrintLarger TextSmaller TextAlerts
MSNBC host Chris Hayes has issued an apology one day after saying on national television that he is "uncomfortable" with calling fallen soldiers "heroes."
"On Sunday, in discussing the uses of the word 'hero' to describe those members of the armed forces who have given their lives, I don't think I lived up to the standards of rigor, respect and empathy for those affected by the issues we discuss that I've set for myself," Hayes says in a written statement. "I am deeply sorry for that."
Hayes continues:
As many have rightly pointed out, it's very easy for me, a TV host, to opine about the people who fight our wars, having never dodged a bullet or guarded a post or walked a mile in their boots. Of course, that is true of the overwhelming majority of our nation's citizens as a whole. One of the points made during Sunday's show was just how removed most Americans are from the wars we fight, how small a percentage of our population is asked to shoulder the entire burden and how easy it becomes to never read the names of those who are wounded and fight and die, to not ask questions about the direction of our strategy in Afghanistan, <span style="text-decoration: underline">and to assuage our own collective guilt about this disconnect with a pro-forma ritual that we observe briefly before returning to our barbecues.</span>
But in seeking to discuss the civilian-military divide and the social distance between those who fight and those who don't, I ended up reinforcing it, conforming to a stereotype of a removed pundit whose views are not anchored in the very real and very wrenching experience of this long decade of war. And for that I am truly sorry.
Here are Hayes's initial remarks that prompted the controversy:</div></div>
And now for the perfunctory Nonpology...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">MSNBC Host Issues Apology for Saying He's 'Uncomfortable' with Calling Fallen Soldiers 'Heroes'
7:06 PM, MAY 28, 2012 • BY DANIEL HALPERSingle PagePrintLarger TextSmaller TextAlerts
MSNBC host Chris Hayes has issued an apology one day after saying on national television that he is "uncomfortable" with calling fallen soldiers "heroes."
"On Sunday, in discussing the uses of the word 'hero' to describe those members of the armed forces who have given their lives, I don't think I lived up to the standards of rigor, respect and empathy for those affected by the issues we discuss that I've set for myself," Hayes says in a written statement. "I am deeply sorry for that."
Hayes continues:
As many have rightly pointed out, it's very easy for me, a TV host, to opine about the people who fight our wars, having never dodged a bullet or guarded a post or walked a mile in their boots. Of course, that is true of the overwhelming majority of our nation's citizens as a whole. One of the points made during Sunday's show was just how removed most Americans are from the wars we fight, how small a percentage of our population is asked to shoulder the entire burden and how easy it becomes to never read the names of those who are wounded and fight and die, to not ask questions about the direction of our strategy in Afghanistan, <span style="text-decoration: underline">and to assuage our own collective guilt about this disconnect with a pro-forma ritual that we observe briefly before returning to our barbecues.</span>
But in seeking to discuss the civilian-military divide and the social distance between those who fight and those who don't, I ended up reinforcing it, conforming to a stereotype of a removed pundit whose views are not anchored in the very real and very wrenching experience of this long decade of war. And for that I am truly sorry.
Here are Hayes's initial remarks that prompted the controversy:</div></div>
Re: And then there are the assholes who say this...
Guy "uncomfortable" with calling US fallen troops heroes is OK calling his parents heroes, not his heroes, heroes. Fuck Him.
True not every guy that dies in service to this nation is a hero. That's not for some shitstick on TV to split hairs about as even the guy who dies of a heart attack at the McDonald's in Kuwait has performed infinitely above the expectation and at a far greater risk than the average citizen. Not a hero in my book but laid next to Chris Hayes he might as well be Superman.
Guy "uncomfortable" with calling US fallen troops heroes is OK calling his parents heroes, not his heroes, heroes. Fuck Him.
True not every guy that dies in service to this nation is a hero. That's not for some shitstick on TV to split hairs about as even the guy who dies of a heart attack at the McDonald's in Kuwait has performed infinitely above the expectation and at a far greater risk than the average citizen. Not a hero in my book but laid next to Chris Hayes he might as well be Superman.
Re: And then there are the assholes who say this...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CS1983</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
A true hero places himself in a situation above and beyond expectations, particularly as concerns the very real possibility he will suffer permanent injury or death. A true hero might even go into a situation understanding he WILL die.
</div></div>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
<span style="font-weight: bold">THIS</span>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CS1983</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
A true hero places himself in a situation above and beyond expectations, particularly as concerns the very real possibility he will suffer permanent injury or death. A true hero might even go into a situation understanding he WILL die.
</div></div>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
<span style="font-weight: bold">THIS</span>
G
Guest
Guest
Re: And then there are the assholes who say this...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CS1983</div><div class="ubbcode-body">QQ, I am pretty sure I'm picking up what you're putting down.
I think what the public means when they say hero, heroes, heroism, heroic, etc. is actually "admirable", or something synonymous. That so much of our society is decidedly not admirable, perhaps this is where the distinction blurs.
Heroism is the final level of a warrior, in my opinion. One cannot be more heroic than another, if they indeed are in the company of fellow heroes- directly or abstractly.
Doing one's duty with courage is not heroic, it's the standard. Going above and beyond does a hero make, not the mere wearing of a uniform or even sweating in that uniform to the standard, despite some butterflies.
I'm not saying we should leave the title to only the MOH recipients, nor that there wasn't possibly some unknown element of heroism in those unfortunate deaths. I do think we need to be more careful in how we describe an action if we assign "heroic" to it. Once hero becomes synonymous with "average", what is a hero? Where do we go? Do we declare the fallen as demi-gods?
Having no familiarity with Sen. Cleland, CPT, USA (Ret.), I can't comment on my thoughts as they relate to this thread and Ann Coulter's prodigious, wanton use of polemical sound bites and egocentric worldview to further relevance and book sales. </div></div>
Golf clap.
This is why I never quite understood how John McCain got to be such a "hero" in the eyes of so many.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CS1983</div><div class="ubbcode-body">QQ, I am pretty sure I'm picking up what you're putting down.
I think what the public means when they say hero, heroes, heroism, heroic, etc. is actually "admirable", or something synonymous. That so much of our society is decidedly not admirable, perhaps this is where the distinction blurs.
Heroism is the final level of a warrior, in my opinion. One cannot be more heroic than another, if they indeed are in the company of fellow heroes- directly or abstractly.
Doing one's duty with courage is not heroic, it's the standard. Going above and beyond does a hero make, not the mere wearing of a uniform or even sweating in that uniform to the standard, despite some butterflies.
I'm not saying we should leave the title to only the MOH recipients, nor that there wasn't possibly some unknown element of heroism in those unfortunate deaths. I do think we need to be more careful in how we describe an action if we assign "heroic" to it. Once hero becomes synonymous with "average", what is a hero? Where do we go? Do we declare the fallen as demi-gods?
Having no familiarity with Sen. Cleland, CPT, USA (Ret.), I can't comment on my thoughts as they relate to this thread and Ann Coulter's prodigious, wanton use of polemical sound bites and egocentric worldview to further relevance and book sales. </div></div>
Golf clap.
This is why I never quite understood how John McCain got to be such a "hero" in the eyes of so many.
Re: And then there are the assholes who say this...
A son of CINCPAC, survived the Forrestal catastrophe, numerous missions into North Vietnam, shot down, captive and tortured for 5 years and when given the opportunity to be released as a token gesture by the enemy, he refused...
Nothing heroic in that...
A son of CINCPAC, survived the Forrestal catastrophe, numerous missions into North Vietnam, shot down, captive and tortured for 5 years and when given the opportunity to be released as a token gesture by the enemy, he refused...
Nothing heroic in that...
G
Guest
Guest
Re: And then there are the assholes who say this...
That's one version - his.
Here's another.
http://www.pythiapress.com/wartales/McCain-Shootdown.htm
That's one version - his.
Here's another.
http://www.pythiapress.com/wartales/McCain-Shootdown.htm
Re: And then there are the assholes who say this...
Wasn't McCain the only Naval Aviator in history to be at fault for more than one crash and maintain flight status?
I won't comment on the heroism or not of his service, but since he's been back he's been doing a knockout job at being a major douche... so, hero or not, he's presently a douche.
Wasn't McCain the only Naval Aviator in history to be at fault for more than one crash and maintain flight status?
I won't comment on the heroism or not of his service, but since he's been back he's been doing a knockout job at being a major douche... so, hero or not, he's presently a douche.
Re: And then there are the assholes who say this...
Alright boys, come and get them!
Alright boys, come and get them!
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