Looking at getting a Savage .308 as a hunting/target rifle. I wanted to know if anyone loads the 240 gr Sierra HPBT MK in a .308 and if so what is a good load? FPS? and for all you long range guys out there... what is the best bullet weight for .308 at long ranges (1000 yards+) and/or some long range loads. I know that I asked a lot of questions, but any bit of input would help.
- Thread starter Paperzippo
- Start date
Re: .308 Heaviest Bullet
As far as I know, even the match rifle guys in the UK (and Oz) aren't using the 240. Some are using the 220, more are using 210, but far and away the most popular "competition" 1000 yard .308 loads are either fast 155's or 175-190 range. Loaded properly (read: fast) any of the 155, 175, 185, or 190's will do the job out to 1200 yards without the absurd pressures needed to make 220's and heavier work in a .308
As far as I know, even the match rifle guys in the UK (and Oz) aren't using the 240. Some are using the 220, more are using 210, but far and away the most popular "competition" 1000 yard .308 loads are either fast 155's or 175-190 range. Loaded properly (read: fast) any of the 155, 175, 185, or 190's will do the job out to 1200 yards without the absurd pressures needed to make 220's and heavier work in a .308
Re: .308 Heaviest Bullet
I agree that 190 would be the heaviest after that your increasing pressure significantly for no apparent gain and loosing performance with a 210 or 220 or 240?
Bill
I agree that 190 would be the heaviest after that your increasing pressure significantly for no apparent gain and loosing performance with a 210 or 220 or 240?
Bill
Re: .308 Heaviest Bullet
PZ,
210s are as heavy as you want to go. Depending upon the throat length of your rifle, the 210 Bergers or JLKs work well in a long throat chamber. The 208 AMAXs will work well in a shorter throat chamber. You'll want to use N-550 with the heavies. You won't get much "plus" at 1k with the .308 cartridge.
HTH,
DocB
PZ,
210s are as heavy as you want to go. Depending upon the throat length of your rifle, the 210 Bergers or JLKs work well in a long throat chamber. The 208 AMAXs will work well in a shorter throat chamber. You'll want to use N-550 with the heavies. You won't get much "plus" at 1k with the .308 cartridge.
HTH,
DocB
Re: .308 Heaviest Bullet
RL17 apparently works well. Good info here...
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1299481#Post1299481
RL17 apparently works well. Good info here...
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1299481#Post1299481
Re: .308 Heaviest Bullet
I've shot 190 SMKs out of my Savage 10 LE, with a decent level of accuracy I might add. I prefer 175 smks or VLDs, though. When either is loaded to .01 jump, they still work just fine in the stock magazine, and are very accurate out of my rifle
I've shot 190 SMKs out of my Savage 10 LE, with a decent level of accuracy I might add. I prefer 175 smks or VLDs, though. When either is loaded to .01 jump, they still work just fine in the stock magazine, and are very accurate out of my rifle
Re: .308 Heaviest Bullet
Thanks for the info! You guys really know your stuff. I was under the impression that the lower grain bullets had pretty lame bc's when compared with the higher grains like 210-240. What's the throat like on a Savage, because I was toying with the idea of getting a Savage with the accustock, accutrigger, and box mag in .308?
Thanks for the info! You guys really know your stuff. I was under the impression that the lower grain bullets had pretty lame bc's when compared with the higher grains like 210-240. What's the throat like on a Savage, because I was toying with the idea of getting a Savage with the accustock, accutrigger, and box mag in .308?
Re: .308 Heaviest Bullet
You can assume the throat is going to be looooong on most any off the shelf rifle.
For heavy bullets, it couldnt matter less, as you probably wouldnt be able to load them to magazine length anyway.
You can assume the throat is going to be looooong on most any off the shelf rifle.
For heavy bullets, it couldnt matter less, as you probably wouldnt be able to load them to magazine length anyway.
Re: .308 Heaviest Bullet
Oops, by reading my last post it looks like I was suggesting that the 190 smks could be loaded .01 short of the lands and still fit in the magazine, which is not what I meant to say. I only meant that the 175 smks or vlds will both fit the mag box when loaded to the lands (at least in MY savage). But I bought mine 3 years ago... so the new ones might have longer throats too.
Not sure if the 190s would fit the mag when loaded close to the lands, but if you were interested I could check as I still have a few of those pills around here somewhere.
As for the BCs of the lighter bullets... they do kinda suck a little compared to the bigger ones, but with such a limited case capacity, you just can't launch the bigger ones fast enough IMHO. They would eventually catch up to the lighter bullet, but not at the ranges your going to be shooting at with a 308. If you were shooting a 300 Win Mag, I would suggest the heavier (210 gr.) bullets.
Oops, by reading my last post it looks like I was suggesting that the 190 smks could be loaded .01 short of the lands and still fit in the magazine, which is not what I meant to say. I only meant that the 175 smks or vlds will both fit the mag box when loaded to the lands (at least in MY savage). But I bought mine 3 years ago... so the new ones might have longer throats too.
Not sure if the 190s would fit the mag when loaded close to the lands, but if you were interested I could check as I still have a few of those pills around here somewhere.
As for the BCs of the lighter bullets... they do kinda suck a little compared to the bigger ones, but with such a limited case capacity, you just can't launch the bigger ones fast enough IMHO. They would eventually catch up to the lighter bullet, but not at the ranges your going to be shooting at with a 308. If you were shooting a 300 Win Mag, I would suggest the heavier (210 gr.) bullets.
Re: .308 Heaviest Bullet
Basically, the 155's will run the fastest and drop the least at closer ranges (600 and in). The 175's are a good compromise between the heavies with a decent BC and speed of the 155's. The 190 is a good bullet for weight at longer range with less wind drift. The 208 and 210 weight bullets will have more drop, but will deflect less in wind over-all. My switch barrel in 308 is chambered for the 190 and 208 A-max bullets. I like more weight for longer range shooting and less wind drift. The 240's would shoot, but they would be way too slow to be effective. If your shooting is mainly going to be 600 and less, I'd lean to the 155's. Longer ranges, I'd go heavier.
Basically, the 155's will run the fastest and drop the least at closer ranges (600 and in). The 175's are a good compromise between the heavies with a decent BC and speed of the 155's. The 190 is a good bullet for weight at longer range with less wind drift. The 208 and 210 weight bullets will have more drop, but will deflect less in wind over-all. My switch barrel in 308 is chambered for the 190 and 208 A-max bullets. I like more weight for longer range shooting and less wind drift. The 240's would shoot, but they would be way too slow to be effective. If your shooting is mainly going to be 600 and less, I'd lean to the 155's. Longer ranges, I'd go heavier.
Re: .308 Heaviest Bullet
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wheres-Waldo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You can assume the throat is going to be looooong on most any off the shelf rifle.
For heavy bullets, it couldnt matter less, as you probably wouldnt be able to load them to magazine length anyway. </div></div>
With a Savage this typically isn't true. My 10FCP McMillan only needed 2.848" OAL to touch the lands with 155s and 2.930" with 208gr Amax. Others have reported shockingly similar throat lengths with similar Savage rifles. I actually cut my throat longer so I could seat the Amax out to 2.980" and be .015" off since the DBM is 3" long inside and I can get it to feed loading in the 2.98-2.985" range.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wheres-Waldo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You can assume the throat is going to be looooong on most any off the shelf rifle.
For heavy bullets, it couldnt matter less, as you probably wouldnt be able to load them to magazine length anyway. </div></div>
With a Savage this typically isn't true. My 10FCP McMillan only needed 2.848" OAL to touch the lands with 155s and 2.930" with 208gr Amax. Others have reported shockingly similar throat lengths with similar Savage rifles. I actually cut my throat longer so I could seat the Amax out to 2.980" and be .015" off since the DBM is 3" long inside and I can get it to feed loading in the 2.98-2.985" range.
Re: .308 Heaviest Bullet
I shoot 208's quite extensively using RL17 powder and i'm getting upwards of 2600+ fps from a 20" barrel, however i'm pushing the pressure envelope. I'm backing off to 2500fps just to stay on the safe side of things. Even 2500fps from a 208amax is more than enough go to get it to 1200 yards supersonic at my elevation (~800'ASL). At 2600 i'm over 1300 yards. The wind drift characteristics of these bullets are superb. On a windy Tuesday not so long ago a shooting partner with 155 Scenars was holding 2-4moa of wind at 800 yards where I only required 1moa. I was shooting 300fps slower than he was as well.
I've been wanting to try 240SMk's, but I had decided that I was going to put a muzzle brake on the rifle before I tried it. The 208's at 2600 give me a mean whack on the shoulder, I can just imagine a 240.
I still may go that route just for the sake of experimentation. I haven't read a post where someone has tried it, and perhaps i'll be the Guinea Pig for the test. It'll be a while though, i'm sending the rifle off for some work soon. I figure a 240smk at 2350 should be fun. Depending on whether you use Brian Litz's numbers, or the G1 of .771 you get anywhere from 1150yards supersonic, and 1500+ supersonic.
My question for Berger, Hornady, and/or Sierra is....who's going to be the first to make a expanding type match bullet with a G1 BC of .750 or higher in the over 200 grain class? Can you imagine a 240SMK with a Secant Ogive to reduce the rediculously huge bearing surface? If they sleeked up that bullet i'll bet they could start pushing the .8 BC zone. If that were available (240gr with a G1 BC of .8) a .300RUM or other super mag class rifle could push the limits to 2000+ yards supersonic with that bullet. But alas, there is a VERY small market for these weights of bullets. Why push a heavy .30 hard when you can move up to a .338 that's far more efficient in that weight class, and higher BC's.
Branden
I shoot 208's quite extensively using RL17 powder and i'm getting upwards of 2600+ fps from a 20" barrel, however i'm pushing the pressure envelope. I'm backing off to 2500fps just to stay on the safe side of things. Even 2500fps from a 208amax is more than enough go to get it to 1200 yards supersonic at my elevation (~800'ASL). At 2600 i'm over 1300 yards. The wind drift characteristics of these bullets are superb. On a windy Tuesday not so long ago a shooting partner with 155 Scenars was holding 2-4moa of wind at 800 yards where I only required 1moa. I was shooting 300fps slower than he was as well.
I've been wanting to try 240SMk's, but I had decided that I was going to put a muzzle brake on the rifle before I tried it. The 208's at 2600 give me a mean whack on the shoulder, I can just imagine a 240.
I still may go that route just for the sake of experimentation. I haven't read a post where someone has tried it, and perhaps i'll be the Guinea Pig for the test. It'll be a while though, i'm sending the rifle off for some work soon. I figure a 240smk at 2350 should be fun. Depending on whether you use Brian Litz's numbers, or the G1 of .771 you get anywhere from 1150yards supersonic, and 1500+ supersonic.
My question for Berger, Hornady, and/or Sierra is....who's going to be the first to make a expanding type match bullet with a G1 BC of .750 or higher in the over 200 grain class? Can you imagine a 240SMK with a Secant Ogive to reduce the rediculously huge bearing surface? If they sleeked up that bullet i'll bet they could start pushing the .8 BC zone. If that were available (240gr with a G1 BC of .8) a .300RUM or other super mag class rifle could push the limits to 2000+ yards supersonic with that bullet. But alas, there is a VERY small market for these weights of bullets. Why push a heavy .30 hard when you can move up to a .338 that's far more efficient in that weight class, and higher BC's.
Branden
Re: .308 Heaviest Bullet
I'm sure you could stream line the 240 grain bullet some. If you reduced the bearing surface, and stream-lined it, it would make the bullet longer. In turn, you would need a much faster twist rate to stabilize it.
I'm sure you could stream line the 240 grain bullet some. If you reduced the bearing surface, and stream-lined it, it would make the bullet longer. In turn, you would need a much faster twist rate to stabilize it.
Re: .308 Heaviest Bullet
240's are generally used in subsonic loads. They are great in 300 Whisper, I'll have to try subsonic .308 Win at some point.
240's are generally used in subsonic loads. They are great in 300 Whisper, I'll have to try subsonic .308 Win at some point.
Re: .308 Heaviest Bullet
I am reading a book titled "Precision Shooting at 1000 yards" by Dave Brennan and there was an exerpt in there where a long range shooter was using 220gr SMK's from a .308AI. When asked why he didn't use the heavier 240SMK's with a superior BC for the long range (2000+ yards) shooting that he was doing, he had stated that the 220gr bullets were about as heavy as a .308 could effectively push. He was shooting them to about 2400fps from a long barreled rifle.
I think that i'm going to abandon my thoughts of shooting 240smk's. Perhaps i'll order some of the 220's and give them a whirl.
Branden
I am reading a book titled "Precision Shooting at 1000 yards" by Dave Brennan and there was an exerpt in there where a long range shooter was using 220gr SMK's from a .308AI. When asked why he didn't use the heavier 240SMK's with a superior BC for the long range (2000+ yards) shooting that he was doing, he had stated that the 220gr bullets were about as heavy as a .308 could effectively push. He was shooting them to about 2400fps from a long barreled rifle.
I think that i'm going to abandon my thoughts of shooting 240smk's. Perhaps i'll order some of the 220's and give them a whirl.
Branden
Re: .308 Heaviest Bullet
It will be hard to stablize the 240gr 308 caliber bullets at achievable velocities. Using Bryan Litz's Point Mass Ballistic program to calculate the Miller stability factor for the 240SMK fired at 2400fps, a barrel twist of 1:10" would be needed to give a Factor of 1.55, above the recommended 1.4. A 1:11" twist (such as Sako TRG) gives a factor of 1.28 which is marginal stability.
That's _if_ 2400fps can be achieved, which must be on the limit.
It will be hard to stablize the 240gr 308 caliber bullets at achievable velocities. Using Bryan Litz's Point Mass Ballistic program to calculate the Miller stability factor for the 240SMK fired at 2400fps, a barrel twist of 1:10" would be needed to give a Factor of 1.55, above the recommended 1.4. A 1:11" twist (such as Sako TRG) gives a factor of 1.28 which is marginal stability.
That's _if_ 2400fps can be achieved, which must be on the limit.
Re: .308 Heaviest Bullet
I do have a 1:10 twist, I wasn't too worried about stabilizing it. I got 2600fps from a 208, i'm sure that 2400 minimum is doable with the right powder. I'm not sure if my shoulder can take it though.
Branden
I do have a 1:10 twist, I wasn't too worried about stabilizing it. I got 2600fps from a 208, i'm sure that 2400 minimum is doable with the right powder. I'm not sure if my shoulder can take it though.
Branden
Re: .308 Heaviest Bullet
Dust remover, Your getting 2600fps from a 208 out of a 20in barrel? Am I reading that correctly? Now I gotta ask what Chronograph are you using to measure that, and what temp is that? Im not trying to be difficult here, Im just having a hard time swallowing that down. How many minutes are you putting in the weapon at 1000yrds?
mike
Dust remover, Your getting 2600fps from a 208 out of a 20in barrel? Am I reading that correctly? Now I gotta ask what Chronograph are you using to measure that, and what temp is that? Im not trying to be difficult here, Im just having a hard time swallowing that down. How many minutes are you putting in the weapon at 1000yrds?
mike
Re: .308 Heaviest Bullet
Shooting Chrony, I know it's not a Pact, or other high end model, but it's in my price range. One more thing, those loads that got me that velocity were HOT, in fact i'm backing off to 2500fps or thereabouts depending on where the accuracy node is in that range.
I haven't gotten that load to 1K, but on a 100y zero (it's actually about 1/2" high at 100, scope is a Leup Mk4 M3 turrets w/1moa clicks) I require 19 minutes for 700 yards, and 24 minutes for 800. If you're going to reverse engineer a velocity from that, you'll be only in a ballpark, as I said, it's M3 knobs, and I can't recall off the top of my head how high or low the impacts were on the target. I have the targets in the gunroom, but i'm not going to go and dig through them right now.
I would love to tell you how many minutes for 1K, but the last time out we spent too many rounds at 800 cursing at the wind and shooting 1moa too low to have enough rounds to move back.
I have some ideas for the next time out so that there aren't so many rounds expended on missing a 12x18" target trying to get the dope required.
Check out the following thread about the 208's and RL17 powder including other shooters with short barrels getting good velocities.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1434936&page=1
Branden
Shooting Chrony, I know it's not a Pact, or other high end model, but it's in my price range. One more thing, those loads that got me that velocity were HOT, in fact i'm backing off to 2500fps or thereabouts depending on where the accuracy node is in that range.
I haven't gotten that load to 1K, but on a 100y zero (it's actually about 1/2" high at 100, scope is a Leup Mk4 M3 turrets w/1moa clicks) I require 19 minutes for 700 yards, and 24 minutes for 800. If you're going to reverse engineer a velocity from that, you'll be only in a ballpark, as I said, it's M3 knobs, and I can't recall off the top of my head how high or low the impacts were on the target. I have the targets in the gunroom, but i'm not going to go and dig through them right now.
I would love to tell you how many minutes for 1K, but the last time out we spent too many rounds at 800 cursing at the wind and shooting 1moa too low to have enough rounds to move back.
I have some ideas for the next time out so that there aren't so many rounds expended on missing a 12x18" target trying to get the dope required.
Check out the following thread about the 208's and RL17 powder including other shooters with short barrels getting good velocities.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1434936&page=1
Branden
Re: .308 Heaviest Bullet
I am getting 2540fps (CED M2 measured for 26" barrel) with 210SMK's and 48gr RL-17. Faint extractor marks, so I don't want to go up more until I have a chance to test in hot weather. Yes there is recoil, but nothing like a 30-06 hunting rifle. Anyway this would only be used for 1000 yard shooting, in a feeble attempt to keep up with the 338 Lapua shooters.
Scaling this to 240gr for the same muzzle energy comes to a bit less than 2400fps, so I'd think that is about the limit. It would be interesting to hear if it works with your 1:10" barrel.
I am getting 2540fps (CED M2 measured for 26" barrel) with 210SMK's and 48gr RL-17. Faint extractor marks, so I don't want to go up more until I have a chance to test in hot weather. Yes there is recoil, but nothing like a 30-06 hunting rifle. Anyway this would only be used for 1000 yard shooting, in a feeble attempt to keep up with the 338 Lapua shooters.
Scaling this to 240gr for the same muzzle energy comes to a bit less than 2400fps, so I'd think that is about the limit. It would be interesting to hear if it works with your 1:10" barrel.
Re: .308 Heaviest Bullet
Heaviest I have used is the 175 but thats from 100 to 1000 nothing farther
Bill
Heaviest I have used is the 175 but thats from 100 to 1000 nothing farther
Bill
Re: .308 Heaviest Bullet
On paper it looks like the 210gr SMK or equivalent is the way to go for 308 caliber at 1000 yards. Using Bryan's program for my altitude of 4250ft, and keeping the muzzle energy roughly constant gives the following 10 mph wind drift values at 1000 yards:
210SMK 2540fps 62"
240SMK 2400fps 64" - no better and maybe won't stablize in 1:11" bbl.
175SMK 2780fps 77" - but I only get 2710fps with 45gr of Varget which increases the value to 80"
So there should be nearly 25% reduction in windage correction for the 210SMK vs. 175SMK at reasonable velocities. The 208-210gr bullet with G7 form factor close to 1.0 seems to be about the minimum wind drift for 308.
For comparison Black Hills 250gr 338 Lapua ammo at claimed 2950fps drifts about 50". 300gr is superb, but not all rifles can stabilize these.
On paper it looks like the 210gr SMK or equivalent is the way to go for 308 caliber at 1000 yards. Using Bryan's program for my altitude of 4250ft, and keeping the muzzle energy roughly constant gives the following 10 mph wind drift values at 1000 yards:
210SMK 2540fps 62"
240SMK 2400fps 64" - no better and maybe won't stablize in 1:11" bbl.
175SMK 2780fps 77" - but I only get 2710fps with 45gr of Varget which increases the value to 80"
So there should be nearly 25% reduction in windage correction for the 210SMK vs. 175SMK at reasonable velocities. The 208-210gr bullet with G7 form factor close to 1.0 seems to be about the minimum wind drift for 308.
For comparison Black Hills 250gr 338 Lapua ammo at claimed 2950fps drifts about 50". 300gr is superb, but not all rifles can stabilize these.
Re: .308 Heaviest Bullet
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mbandy13</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dust remover, Your getting 2600fps from a 208 out of a 20in barrel? Am I reading that correctly? Now I gotta ask what Chronograph are you using to measure that, and what temp is that? Im not trying to be difficult here, Im just having a hard time swallowing that down. How many minutes are you putting in the weapon at 1000yrds?
mike </div></div>
i am getting 2575 fps out of a 22" barrel with RL17 and 208 grain Amaxes.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mbandy13</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dust remover, Your getting 2600fps from a 208 out of a 20in barrel? Am I reading that correctly? Now I gotta ask what Chronograph are you using to measure that, and what temp is that? Im not trying to be difficult here, Im just having a hard time swallowing that down. How many minutes are you putting in the weapon at 1000yrds?
mike </div></div>
i am getting 2575 fps out of a 22" barrel with RL17 and 208 grain Amaxes.
Re: .308 Heaviest Bullet
old thread i know, but this thread came up in my google search.
what is the heaviest factory loaded .308 ammo can purchase? I dont curretly do any reloading although I may in the future. I am hoping I can purchase something over 200gr.
old thread i know, but this thread came up in my google search.
what is the heaviest factory loaded .308 ammo can purchase? I dont curretly do any reloading although I may in the future. I am hoping I can purchase something over 200gr.
Re: .308 Heaviest Bullet
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Thecelt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">old thread i know, but this thread came up in my google search.
what is the heaviest factory loaded .308 ammo can purchase? I dont curretly do any reloading although I may in the future. I am hoping I can purchase something over 200gr.</div></div>
will your barrel even stabilize a 200gr + bullet?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Thecelt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">old thread i know, but this thread came up in my google search.
what is the heaviest factory loaded .308 ammo can purchase? I dont curretly do any reloading although I may in the future. I am hoping I can purchase something over 200gr.</div></div>
will your barrel even stabilize a 200gr + bullet?
Re: .308 Heaviest Bullet
I have never seen a 200+ gr. Factory .308 round. I think you can get 190SMKs. Might try SW ammo see what they produce. Hope that helps.
I have never seen a 200+ gr. Factory .308 round. I think you can get 190SMKs. Might try SW ammo see what they produce. Hope that helps.
Re: .308 Heaviest Bullet
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Thecelt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i wouldnt be looking for one if it couldnt.
1:10 twist
rem 700 aac-sd
do you have an answer?</div></div>
don't be a dipshit...
1st off, a 1:10 isn't necessarily going to stabilize a 200gr + bullet (why do you think 300blk barrels are 1:8 or 1:7)
http://www.shopcorbon.com/Performance-Ma...-20/700/Product
or call Custom Reloads of Dallas, Copper Creek Ammo, Southwest Ammo, McCourt Munitions....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Thecelt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i wouldnt be looking for one if it couldnt.
rem 700 aac-sd
do you have an answer?</div></div>
don't be a dipshit...
1st off, a 1:10 isn't necessarily going to stabilize a 200gr + bullet (why do you think 300blk barrels are 1:8 or 1:7)
http://www.shopcorbon.com/Performance-Ma...-20/700/Product
or call Custom Reloads of Dallas, Copper Creek Ammo, Southwest Ammo, McCourt Munitions....
Re: .308 Heaviest Bullet
But I've rolled my own for years.
But I've rolled my own for years.
Re: .308 Heaviest Bullet
force multiplier, if you dont like the sarcasm then you shouldnt have asked a question to my question and should have just provided the info i was asking for or move on to the next post. you don't have to be a dick about it..
force multiplier, if you dont like the sarcasm then you shouldnt have asked a question to my question and should have just provided the info i was asking for or move on to the next post. you don't have to be a dick about it..
Re: .308 Heaviest Bullet
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Force_Multiplier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
http://www.shopcorbon.com/Performance-Ma...-20/700/Product
or call Custom Reloads of Dallas, Copper Creek Ammo, Southwest Ammo, McCourt Munitions....
</div></div>
thanks, this would have been enough help.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Force_Multiplier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
http://www.shopcorbon.com/Performance-Ma...-20/700/Product
or call Custom Reloads of Dallas, Copper Creek Ammo, Southwest Ammo, McCourt Munitions....
</div></div>
thanks, this would have been enough help.
Re: .308 Heaviest Bullet
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Thecelt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">force multiplier, if you dont like the sarcasm then you shouldnt have asked a question to my question and should have just provided the info i was asking for or move on to the next post. you don't have to be a dick about it..
</div></div>
I actually wasn't being a dick... from your posts I surmised that the AAC SD was your only 308...
the fact is you just THINK you want 200gr + ammo...
but since you're too inexperienced to ask the correct questions, w/ all the pertinent information we'll need to HELP you, expect us to ask the occasional question...
for example...
What rifle are you shooting? (answered)
What TYPE of factory ammo, hunting ammo, match ammo?
Do you want ammo that's likely to available locally, or would mail order ammo fit your needs?
but most of all, you need to figure out that YOU"RE the one needing help, and we're the ones who have the experience that can help, a LOT of us also have very little patience, so if we seem a little short, get used to it, because if you come off like a smartass, you'll get very little help.
in the end, we couldn't care less if you never learn to shoot that rifle, but if you really want to learn, then we might just razz you a little, make a joke or 2, even be flat out assholes, but IF you really want to learn and pay attention, we can teach you.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Thecelt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">force multiplier, if you dont like the sarcasm then you shouldnt have asked a question to my question and should have just provided the info i was asking for or move on to the next post. you don't have to be a dick about it..
</div></div>
I actually wasn't being a dick... from your posts I surmised that the AAC SD was your only 308...
the fact is you just THINK you want 200gr + ammo...
but since you're too inexperienced to ask the correct questions, w/ all the pertinent information we'll need to HELP you, expect us to ask the occasional question...
for example...
What rifle are you shooting? (answered)
What TYPE of factory ammo, hunting ammo, match ammo?
Do you want ammo that's likely to available locally, or would mail order ammo fit your needs?
but most of all, you need to figure out that YOU"RE the one needing help, and we're the ones who have the experience that can help, a LOT of us also have very little patience, so if we seem a little short, get used to it, because if you come off like a smartass, you'll get very little help.
in the end, we couldn't care less if you never learn to shoot that rifle, but if you really want to learn, then we might just razz you a little, make a joke or 2, even be flat out assholes, but IF you really want to learn and pay attention, we can teach you.
Re: .308 Heaviest Bullet
fm, your question to me seemed to be arrogant and i didnt see the need for it. maybe i took it wrong, but i never had much tolerance for people who give newbs a hard time. many forums are like animals and while i am new to this one, i am not new to them and i helped build one of the largest motorcycle forums and saw the same questions daily for many years. i know it gets tiring hearing the same questions over and over, etc.. that is why i search first ask questions later.
i may be "new" to long range precision shooting, but i have been a hunter/shooter for nearly 30 years and can shoot sub moa with any rifle capable of achieving it. but i also know that i have a fair bit to learn about the finer details, and technicalities of precision shooting. im all about busting chops, but its better to do when people first have a sense about you. i also didnt ask can my gun shoot 200gr+ rounds, is it ok to do, etc... just wanted to know is all.
fm, your question to me seemed to be arrogant and i didnt see the need for it. maybe i took it wrong, but i never had much tolerance for people who give newbs a hard time. many forums are like animals and while i am new to this one, i am not new to them and i helped build one of the largest motorcycle forums and saw the same questions daily for many years. i know it gets tiring hearing the same questions over and over, etc.. that is why i search first ask questions later.
i may be "new" to long range precision shooting, but i have been a hunter/shooter for nearly 30 years and can shoot sub moa with any rifle capable of achieving it. but i also know that i have a fair bit to learn about the finer details, and technicalities of precision shooting. im all about busting chops, but its better to do when people first have a sense about you. i also didnt ask can my gun shoot 200gr+ rounds, is it ok to do, etc... just wanted to know is all.
Re: .308 Heaviest Bullet
i need a factory loaded 420 grain lehigh for my .308, where can i get it?
i need a factory loaded 420 grain lehigh for my .308, where can i get it?
Re: .308 Heaviest Bullet
Hell, I just figured you was a yankee so I didn't expect different! LOL! Rolling your own is the way go. FM I forgot about the corbons. As long as your not trying to run them subsonic almost all will stablize in a 1 in 10. 208 are my favorite flavor. Got a great deal on a bunch from another Hide member who decided to get out of the 30 cal game. The 208 BTHP match is another good bullet for it. Again, you need to roll your own. Welcome to the Hide. Learn to duck yankee! LOL!
Hell, I just figured you was a yankee so I didn't expect different! LOL! Rolling your own is the way go. FM I forgot about the corbons. As long as your not trying to run them subsonic almost all will stablize in a 1 in 10. 208 are my favorite flavor. Got a great deal on a bunch from another Hide member who decided to get out of the 30 cal game. The 208 BTHP match is another good bullet for it. Again, you need to roll your own. Welcome to the Hide. Learn to duck yankee! LOL!
Re: .308 Heaviest Bullet
ROFLMAO! Bravo Zulu quick study!
ROFLMAO! Bravo Zulu quick study!
Re: .308 Heaviest Bullet
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Thecelt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
will your barrel even stabilize a 400gr + bullet?</div></div>
no, but i been hunting wabbits since i was 2 months old
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Thecelt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
will your barrel even stabilize a 400gr + bullet?</div></div>
no, but i been hunting wabbits since i was 2 months old
Re: .308 Heaviest Bullet
Ahhhh..... the kinder gentler Hide. Where the newbie is king. MOst of the people who can give you good advice, on what you should be shooting, are ignoring this gravedigging masterpiece right now.
I find it funny who is acusing who of being a smartass. Shirley a man who has built multi million member forums, and can shoot BR with the best of them, any time he decides to pick up a firearm, can find every ammo maker known to man using search function. IT should be a small task for such a legend.
Force M I hope you have learned your lesson....let em starve.
Ahhhh..... the kinder gentler Hide. Where the newbie is king. MOst of the people who can give you good advice, on what you should be shooting, are ignoring this gravedigging masterpiece right now.
I find it funny who is acusing who of being a smartass. Shirley a man who has built multi million member forums, and can shoot BR with the best of them, any time he decides to pick up a firearm, can find every ammo maker known to man using search function. IT should be a small task for such a legend.
Force M I hope you have learned your lesson....let em starve.
Re: .308 Heaviest Bullet
Thecelt, I am the guy that wrote the don't mess with the new guys post but I am here to tell you that you came off like a dick in your posts to FM. He asked a serious question to which you were a smart ass and then continued even after he gave you the info. You haven't been here long and we get all sorts of stupid questions and people looking for things they can't or shouldn't use. He was trying to make sure you could even use what you were looking for.
Just because we say don't mess with the new guys on the site doesn't mean the new guy is always right. Think about it the next time before acting like an ass to someone who is trying to help you.
Thecelt, I am the guy that wrote the don't mess with the new guys post but I am here to tell you that you came off like a dick in your posts to FM. He asked a serious question to which you were a smart ass and then continued even after he gave you the info. You haven't been here long and we get all sorts of stupid questions and people looking for things they can't or shouldn't use. He was trying to make sure you could even use what you were looking for.
Just because we say don't mess with the new guys on the site doesn't mean the new guy is always right. Think about it the next time before acting like an ass to someone who is trying to help you.
Re: .308 Heaviest Bullet
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thecelt, I am the guy that wrote the don't mess with the new guys post but I am here to tell you that you came off like a dick in your posts to FM. He asked a serious question to which you were a smart ass and then continued even after he gave you the info. You haven't been here long and we get all sorts of stupid questions and people looking for things they can't or shouldn't use. He was trying to make sure you could even use what you were looking for.
Just because we say don't mess with the new guys on the site doesn't mean the new guy is always right. Think about it the next time before acting like an ass to someone who is trying to help you. </div></div>
rob,i get where you are coming from but when looking at this snowball objectively i asked a very specific and simple question. my question was not broad,vague or open ended. i didnt ask "what is the heaviest.308 ammo my rifle can accurately stabilize, or hunt with,or compete with.... just what is the heaviest factory available ammo. i asked this because i was curious and i like to do my own research and comparisons for my own benefit. had i received a simple specific answer i would have replied with a courteous thank you and went and done my own homework. after that i more than likely would have returned and then asked additional questions such as "out of x, y, or z available ammo what would be best for hunting black bear, deer, and target shooting etc...
instead of a specific answer to my question i got another question. now, admittedly; i took this as assuming i am a newb without clue and that i needed to be schooled by someone who has been on this site for a while and is tired of the newb questions. and in my response i still put a there so my intention was not to be a dick, but just a little sarcastic. now in return he called me a dipshit so i called him out on not answering my question. then it was time to "sick" the newb and try to teach me about forum etiquette. i get it, i am an admin on some very large motorcycle forums so i know how it goes, and been involved in forums for many years.
in summary, if my assumption was wrong regarding the intentions of fm to my original question then i apologize (i can be a bit defensive). but if he genuinely assumed i was a dumb newb and needed to be schooled then for his assumptions i think an apology my way would be reasonable.
and to those who offered helpful info. :thumbup
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thecelt, I am the guy that wrote the don't mess with the new guys post but I am here to tell you that you came off like a dick in your posts to FM. He asked a serious question to which you were a smart ass and then continued even after he gave you the info. You haven't been here long and we get all sorts of stupid questions and people looking for things they can't or shouldn't use. He was trying to make sure you could even use what you were looking for.
Just because we say don't mess with the new guys on the site doesn't mean the new guy is always right. Think about it the next time before acting like an ass to someone who is trying to help you. </div></div>
rob,i get where you are coming from but when looking at this snowball objectively i asked a very specific and simple question. my question was not broad,vague or open ended. i didnt ask "what is the heaviest.308 ammo my rifle can accurately stabilize, or hunt with,or compete with.... just what is the heaviest factory available ammo. i asked this because i was curious and i like to do my own research and comparisons for my own benefit. had i received a simple specific answer i would have replied with a courteous thank you and went and done my own homework. after that i more than likely would have returned and then asked additional questions such as "out of x, y, or z available ammo what would be best for hunting black bear, deer, and target shooting etc...
instead of a specific answer to my question i got another question. now, admittedly; i took this as assuming i am a newb without clue and that i needed to be schooled by someone who has been on this site for a while and is tired of the newb questions. and in my response i still put a
in summary, if my assumption was wrong regarding the intentions of fm to my original question then i apologize (i can be a bit defensive). but if he genuinely assumed i was a dumb newb and needed to be schooled then for his assumptions i think an apology my way would be reasonable.
and to those who offered helpful info. :thumbup
Re: .308 Heaviest Bullet
I actually didn't CALL you a dipshit, I told you not to be a dipshit....
and I still think you're a "dumb newb" w/o enough experience to even ask a specific enough question to even get pointed in the direction you need to be researching. the fact that you point to your other forum experience, your experience as a "hunter/shooter for nearly 30 years", and the fact that you "can shoot sub moa with any rifle capable of achieving it". along w/ the fact that you didn't even know if it was safe to shoot a 147gr bullet through a 1:10 twist barrel, and the fact that you just keep being argumentative here.
all of these things tell me that YOU'RE arrogant, closed minded, unwilling to accept help, and generally just think you already know everything you need to know.
and I'll even admit to being arrogant myself, and generally an asshole, but....
one of us can shoot long range (read at least 1000yds) and breakdown and machine parts for that rifle you bought, the other doesn't even know what ammo to buy.
again, think about which one of us needs the help from the other, 'cause I'm sure not gonna be asking you for advise.
I actually didn't CALL you a dipshit, I told you not to be a dipshit....
and I still think you're a "dumb newb" w/o enough experience to even ask a specific enough question to even get pointed in the direction you need to be researching. the fact that you point to your other forum experience, your experience as a "hunter/shooter for nearly 30 years", and the fact that you "can shoot sub moa with any rifle capable of achieving it". along w/ the fact that you didn't even know if it was safe to shoot a 147gr bullet through a 1:10 twist barrel, and the fact that you just keep being argumentative here.
all of these things tell me that YOU'RE arrogant, closed minded, unwilling to accept help, and generally just think you already know everything you need to know.
and I'll even admit to being arrogant myself, and generally an asshole, but....
one of us can shoot long range (read at least 1000yds) and breakdown and machine parts for that rifle you bought, the other doesn't even know what ammo to buy.
again, think about which one of us needs the help from the other, 'cause I'm sure not gonna be asking you for advise.
Re: .308 Heaviest Bullet
hmm, well i was looking to make peace with you, and that is why i even sent you a pm with an apology if i read you wrong, and getting defensive, but i guess you are right about being an asshole. i wont bother shooting holes (pun intended) in all of your inaccurate statements, but i am not closed minded, and certainly not unwilling to ask for, or accept help, and certainly don't think i know everything. but when people like you and i butt heads there wont be much progress to be made. keep in mind, i didnt ask you if my gun can shoot 200gr+ ammo so i didnt need you to ask me if my barrel can stabilize it. you are the one who is coming off as a know it all, and think you need to school people. i didnt need to be any more specific with my question because i had "MY" reasons for asking it, and not "YOUR" reasons for asking it.
and as far as shooting ability i know without question ill be shooting 1000yds. in short time so that doesnt mean much. and you can machine part, yay for you. i havent delved into that aspect of the sport, but if i did im sure i could. im sure you have more experience in certain aspects of this sport, but everyone is good at different things so who cares.
btw, i didnt ask you for "help", just a very simple question that turned into this fiasco.
hmm, well i was looking to make peace with you, and that is why i even sent you a pm with an apology if i read you wrong, and getting defensive, but i guess you are right about being an asshole. i wont bother shooting holes (pun intended) in all of your inaccurate statements, but i am not closed minded, and certainly not unwilling to ask for, or accept help, and certainly don't think i know everything. but when people like you and i butt heads there wont be much progress to be made. keep in mind, i didnt ask you if my gun can shoot 200gr+ ammo so i didnt need you to ask me if my barrel can stabilize it. you are the one who is coming off as a know it all, and think you need to school people. i didnt need to be any more specific with my question because i had "MY" reasons for asking it, and not "YOUR" reasons for asking it.
and as far as shooting ability i know without question ill be shooting 1000yds. in short time so that doesnt mean much. and you can machine part, yay for you. i havent delved into that aspect of the sport, but if i did im sure i could. im sure you have more experience in certain aspects of this sport, but everyone is good at different things so who cares.
btw, i didnt ask you for "help", just a very simple question that turned into this fiasco.
Re: .308 Heaviest Bullet
i have a boner
i have a boner
Re: .308 Heaviest Bullet
Mr Celt. Force Multiplier has you by your virtual short numblies. At this point I would walk away from any further claims of double duty experience and claims of making 1000yds your bitch pretty soon. You sir are simply embarrasing yourself at this point. You should know that anyone can read all your past posts, I am sure you know that due to your experience. Maybe you just have a bad memory. Your past words can and will be used against you in the forums.
You are still about 0-3 in this thread. I would stop while I was ahead.
Mr Celt. Force Multiplier has you by your virtual short numblies. At this point I would walk away from any further claims of double duty experience and claims of making 1000yds your bitch pretty soon. You sir are simply embarrasing yourself at this point. You should know that anyone can read all your past posts, I am sure you know that due to your experience. Maybe you just have a bad memory. Your past words can and will be used against you in the forums.
You are still about 0-3 in this thread. I would stop while I was ahead.
Re: .308 Heaviest Bullet
The question being asked for pratical purposes is what is the heaviest bullet that can be fired from a .308 Win chambered rifle? Pretty general question here. Depends on what you are favoring for a rifle. I have an off the shelf Savage 110fp, 24"/1:10 barrel. The rest of the platform is
not" off the shelf. It has a long throat and fires 190 SMKs, 185Hybrids beautifully. Have run chrono programs that demonstrate that it is quite capable of shooting lethally out to 1200 yds and staying above the Supersonic floor. I've heard that Savages have a long throat; I don't know that. But, I do know my Savage has a long throat. Entertained the idea of stepping up to the AMax 208; as long as the throat is in my rifle and it will chamber a dead round developed for the exercise, I cannot load the RL17 suggested for the load, even the minimum bottom end load without crushing the neck of the case. Result!? that loading will not be realistically considered by me. So, back to the 190SMK and 185 Hybrid; those are the heaviest "my weapon" will shoot given safe shop practice in reloading. The logical end to that question "...what is the heaviest ...308 can I shoot..." is ultimately ending as a follow on question "...how fast can I shoot it?..." My answer is "...fast enough...". You do not need to "shoot fast", just fast enough to keep the round downrange at a 1000yards+ above the supersonic floor. The round bucks the wind nicely, stays stable, hits hard [at a 1000 yards a 190SMK will hit with the nominal force of a 230grn Hardball 45ACP at 50 yards], and is accurate. Why shoot any harder, why shoot a larger bullet? I've taken the 190SMK and 185 Hybrid loadings to the Malabar range in Florida and have ploughed through 25 MPH gusts at 600 yards to tear up the 10/X rings. That experience did not prove my ability so much [I've always trusted my ability] as it proved out my thinking on these two loadings. As was said during this exchange, the wear and tear on the weapon is a result of a ramp up in velocity, that is nominal at best. I prefer the free and open exchnge of questions and data in a setting such as this to the proverbial
"...I'm the brightest one in the room why the "F****" don't you know that...?!!!?" attitude I've seen here. The only dumb question is the one not asked for fear of ridicule, one that might have kept a man from harm, a good Sailor or Marine from, getting killed.
all the best
Anchor'sAweigh/SemperFi
ChiefBull
The question being asked for pratical purposes is what is the heaviest bullet that can be fired from a .308 Win chambered rifle? Pretty general question here. Depends on what you are favoring for a rifle. I have an off the shelf Savage 110fp, 24"/1:10 barrel. The rest of the platform is
not" off the shelf. It has a long throat and fires 190 SMKs, 185Hybrids beautifully. Have run chrono programs that demonstrate that it is quite capable of shooting lethally out to 1200 yds and staying above the Supersonic floor. I've heard that Savages have a long throat; I don't know that. But, I do know my Savage has a long throat. Entertained the idea of stepping up to the AMax 208; as long as the throat is in my rifle and it will chamber a dead round developed for the exercise, I cannot load the RL17 suggested for the load, even the minimum bottom end load without crushing the neck of the case. Result!? that loading will not be realistically considered by me. So, back to the 190SMK and 185 Hybrid; those are the heaviest "my weapon" will shoot given safe shop practice in reloading. The logical end to that question "...what is the heaviest ...308 can I shoot..." is ultimately ending as a follow on question "...how fast can I shoot it?..." My answer is "...fast enough...". You do not need to "shoot fast", just fast enough to keep the round downrange at a 1000yards+ above the supersonic floor. The round bucks the wind nicely, stays stable, hits hard [at a 1000 yards a 190SMK will hit with the nominal force of a 230grn Hardball 45ACP at 50 yards], and is accurate. Why shoot any harder, why shoot a larger bullet? I've taken the 190SMK and 185 Hybrid loadings to the Malabar range in Florida and have ploughed through 25 MPH gusts at 600 yards to tear up the 10/X rings. That experience did not prove my ability so much [I've always trusted my ability] as it proved out my thinking on these two loadings. As was said during this exchange, the wear and tear on the weapon is a result of a ramp up in velocity, that is nominal at best. I prefer the free and open exchnge of questions and data in a setting such as this to the proverbial
"...I'm the brightest one in the room why the "F****" don't you know that...?!!!?" attitude I've seen here. The only dumb question is the one not asked for fear of ridicule, one that might have kept a man from harm, a good Sailor or Marine from, getting killed.
all the best
Anchor'sAweigh/SemperFi
ChiefBull
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