I understand that is might bean impossible question to answer, but I guess being brand new in the vintage world gives me an excuse for one or two dumb questions. Out of the bolt action family say between late 1800s and WW2 what is the most accurate rifle?
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Re: Newbie question
Most would say the 1903/1903a3 Springfield rifles. I would agree with that and then not in any particular order I would say the Mauser 98k and the 1917 Enfield series of rifles, Swedish Mausers 1896 Series of rifles, and the Swiss K31's. Probably forgetting a few.
Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
Most would say the 1903/1903a3 Springfield rifles. I would agree with that and then not in any particular order I would say the Mauser 98k and the 1917 Enfield series of rifles, Swedish Mausers 1896 Series of rifles, and the Swiss K31's. Probably forgetting a few.
Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
Re: Newbie question
If you got to the CMP web site and talk to people who shoot the CMP GSM Vintage Rifle Games, you'll find most will say the Swiss K31 is at the top of the list.
The 1903a3 is up there too, but not compaired to the K31, the Springfield has its own match and not often fired side by side with the Swiss.
Over all, its how any given rifle was taken care of. Most soldiers clean their rifles from the muzzle, muzzle wear is a indication of whether any of these rifles will shoot.
Throat wear indicates how much they were shot and is something also looked at when picking a Vintage Military rifle for competition.
Three things I carry with me when I'm looking for a surplus rifle, Muzzle Gage, Throat erosion gage and bore light.
Having said all that, targets used in the CMP GSM matches have a 3.5 MOA X-10 Ring. If you're rifle shoots 3.5 MOA, you should be able to clean the targets.
I got my M1 from then DCM in 1981 or 82, shot the crap out of it, many times it got so hot sap was seeping out of the handguards. Using the TE and ME gages, it should be shot, but it still will shoot 3.5 MOA. (Now if I could only do it standing on my hind legs I'd be good to go).
If you got to the CMP web site and talk to people who shoot the CMP GSM Vintage Rifle Games, you'll find most will say the Swiss K31 is at the top of the list.
The 1903a3 is up there too, but not compaired to the K31, the Springfield has its own match and not often fired side by side with the Swiss.
Over all, its how any given rifle was taken care of. Most soldiers clean their rifles from the muzzle, muzzle wear is a indication of whether any of these rifles will shoot.
Throat wear indicates how much they were shot and is something also looked at when picking a Vintage Military rifle for competition.
Three things I carry with me when I'm looking for a surplus rifle, Muzzle Gage, Throat erosion gage and bore light.
Having said all that, targets used in the CMP GSM matches have a 3.5 MOA X-10 Ring. If you're rifle shoots 3.5 MOA, you should be able to clean the targets.
I got my M1 from then DCM in 1981 or 82, shot the crap out of it, many times it got so hot sap was seeping out of the handguards. Using the TE and ME gages, it should be shot, but it still will shoot 3.5 MOA. (Now if I could only do it standing on my hind legs I'd be good to go).
Re: Newbie question
Out of my collection the three most accurate would be, in order: 1) Swedish M96 2) K31 3)1903A3.
The M96 and Swiss K31 are really close but my particular Swede consistently shoots groups 1/4-1/2 MOA tighter than my K31. That may change as I continue to experiment with handloads for the K31. The 1903A3 is hot on there heels when using 46.5 grs VARGET and a 168 A-Max.
I've shot all three in VMR matches and while the M96 is the most accurate the other two are easier to shoot. They have better sights and are easier to shoot rapid fires with.
The last two matches I've shot were with the 1903A3.
Out of my collection the three most accurate would be, in order: 1) Swedish M96 2) K31 3)1903A3.
The M96 and Swiss K31 are really close but my particular Swede consistently shoots groups 1/4-1/2 MOA tighter than my K31. That may change as I continue to experiment with handloads for the K31. The 1903A3 is hot on there heels when using 46.5 grs VARGET and a 168 A-Max.
I've shot all three in VMR matches and while the M96 is the most accurate the other two are easier to shoot. They have better sights and are easier to shoot rapid fires with.
The last two matches I've shot were with the 1903A3.
Re: Newbie question
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMC mustang</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Out of my collection the three most accurate would be, in order: 1) Swedish M96 2) K31 3)1903A3.
The M96 and Swiss K31 are really close but my particular Swede consistently shoots groups 1/4-1/2 MOA tighter than my K31. That may change as I continue to experiment with handloads for the K31. The 1903A3 is hot on there heels when using 46.5 grs VARGET and a 168 A-Max.
I've shot all three in VMR matches and while the M96 is the most accurate the other two are easier to shoot. They have better sights and are easier to shoot rapid fires with.
The last two matches I've shot were with the 1903A3.
</div></div>
If I were to make a list, this would be it. A well tuned Finn Mosin (M27, 28, or 39) or K98, shooting handloads, can compete with the Springfields, also. But, the M96 and K31 are the Kings, in my book.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMC mustang</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Out of my collection the three most accurate would be, in order: 1) Swedish M96 2) K31 3)1903A3.
The M96 and Swiss K31 are really close but my particular Swede consistently shoots groups 1/4-1/2 MOA tighter than my K31. That may change as I continue to experiment with handloads for the K31. The 1903A3 is hot on there heels when using 46.5 grs VARGET and a 168 A-Max.
I've shot all three in VMR matches and while the M96 is the most accurate the other two are easier to shoot. They have better sights and are easier to shoot rapid fires with.
The last two matches I've shot were with the 1903A3.
</div></div>
If I were to make a list, this would be it. A well tuned Finn Mosin (M27, 28, or 39) or K98, shooting handloads, can compete with the Springfields, also. But, the M96 and K31 are the Kings, in my book.
Re: Newbie question
Maybe to give everyone an ideal of expected accuracy of vintage military rilfes, the Awards for CMP GSM, Garand, Springfield, Military Rifles, (The M or Military covers all others excluding the Carbine which is in its own class) Are Gold, Silver and Bronze Metals.
For the Garand: (300 pts. possible
Gold 281 and above
Silver 273 - 280
Bronze 264-272
For the Springfields
Gold 282 and above
Silver 274-281
Bronze 264-273
Vintage Military (all others)
Gold 278 and above
Silver 270 - 277
Bronze 258-269
Note: The score for the M1 Carbine are different as it fires a different course of fire.
As you can see the accuracy expectations of the Springfield are higher then all the others, including the Garand.
If you look at the scores posted at the CMP Games, Perry, Eastern & Western Games, etc. the posted scores for the Springfield Matches is indeed higher then the other rifles.
The CMP put the Springfield in its own class to make it fair for the competitiors using other surplus rifles.
If you ever fired a good 1903a3 you could see why its in a class all its own.
This is one (the main) reason why the 1903a3 action was chosen as the preferred action for the 7.62 NATO Mann Accuracy device used to test military 7.62 Ammo.
As a CMP GSM Master Instructor, I put on clinics and Vintage GSM matches, from what I've seen, I have to agree with the CMP in that over all, the Springfield is the most accurate of the vintage rifles used.
The K31 is normally post the Top Scores in the Other Military rifle matches.
There are exceptions, (because of the shooter). I put on a GSM Clinic/Match last spring and the overall winner used a Mosin 91/30 and surplus ammo he picked up the night before the match.
Maybe to give everyone an ideal of expected accuracy of vintage military rilfes, the Awards for CMP GSM, Garand, Springfield, Military Rifles, (The M or Military covers all others excluding the Carbine which is in its own class) Are Gold, Silver and Bronze Metals.
For the Garand: (300 pts. possible
Gold 281 and above
Silver 273 - 280
Bronze 264-272
For the Springfields
Gold 282 and above
Silver 274-281
Bronze 264-273
Vintage Military (all others)
Gold 278 and above
Silver 270 - 277
Bronze 258-269
Note: The score for the M1 Carbine are different as it fires a different course of fire.
As you can see the accuracy expectations of the Springfield are higher then all the others, including the Garand.
If you look at the scores posted at the CMP Games, Perry, Eastern & Western Games, etc. the posted scores for the Springfield Matches is indeed higher then the other rifles.
The CMP put the Springfield in its own class to make it fair for the competitiors using other surplus rifles.
If you ever fired a good 1903a3 you could see why its in a class all its own.
This is one (the main) reason why the 1903a3 action was chosen as the preferred action for the 7.62 NATO Mann Accuracy device used to test military 7.62 Ammo.
As a CMP GSM Master Instructor, I put on clinics and Vintage GSM matches, from what I've seen, I have to agree with the CMP in that over all, the Springfield is the most accurate of the vintage rifles used.
The K31 is normally post the Top Scores in the Other Military rifle matches.
There are exceptions, (because of the shooter). I put on a GSM Clinic/Match last spring and the overall winner used a Mosin 91/30 and surplus ammo he picked up the night before the match.
Re: Newbie question
As a side note, don't discount the Mosin. If you find a Mosin with a good bore, learn to shoot it, load quality ammo (forget the surplus crap) it will hold its own with the other Vintage Mitlitary rifles.
Too many people discount the 91/30 because all they've shot is the surplus junk. Plus they try weird stuff like free floating the barrels and such.
As a side note, don't discount the Mosin. If you find a Mosin with a good bore, learn to shoot it, load quality ammo (forget the surplus crap) it will hold its own with the other Vintage Mitlitary rifles.
Too many people discount the 91/30 because all they've shot is the surplus junk. Plus they try weird stuff like free floating the barrels and such.
Re: Newbie question
I have owned most of the above rifles mentioned and BY FAR the most accurate vintage rifle I have ever owned was a 1943 Mosin Nagant 91/30 PU sniper rifle. The rifle had a great bore, most of its throat and the crown was untouched. With SMK 174gr (.311) loads its regularly shot under 1moa and I even have a few 3/4 inch 5 shot groups up on the wall.
I have owned most of the above rifles mentioned and BY FAR the most accurate vintage rifle I have ever owned was a 1943 Mosin Nagant 91/30 PU sniper rifle. The rifle had a great bore, most of its throat and the crown was untouched. With SMK 174gr (.311) loads its regularly shot under 1moa and I even have a few 3/4 inch 5 shot groups up on the wall.
