New to long range shooting. Trying to decide if MIL or MOA is the world I want to play in. Anybody care to give me reasons to go one way or the other?
Rifle Scopes MIL or MOA
- Thread starter Slipshot
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Re: MIL or MOA
It's all about the ranging. If you know your range to target, use MOA - the turret gradations tend to be finer.
If you need to range your target, MIL is the way to go. It's just easier to do the calculations.
And there is little need for MIL ranging unless you're reaching out to medium and long range, since most high-power rifle cartridges can group within 6" out to 300 yards.
I have a 2.5-8x optic with MIL reticule. I can range out to 600 yards with that gun, and I enjoy the challenge of shooting targets of known size at unknown ranges - which is what MIL is all about.
I'm building an F-class gun for use at 1000 yards. Since I know the range to target and the target size I bought a scope with 1/8th MOA turrets and a target dot reticle.
It's all about the ranging. If you know your range to target, use MOA - the turret gradations tend to be finer.
If you need to range your target, MIL is the way to go. It's just easier to do the calculations.
And there is little need for MIL ranging unless you're reaching out to medium and long range, since most high-power rifle cartridges can group within 6" out to 300 yards.
I have a 2.5-8x optic with MIL reticule. I can range out to 600 yards with that gun, and I enjoy the challenge of shooting targets of known size at unknown ranges - which is what MIL is all about.
I'm building an F-class gun for use at 1000 yards. Since I know the range to target and the target size I bought a scope with 1/8th MOA turrets and a target dot reticle.
Re: MIL or MOA
i had the same question a few months ago. i even titled the thread the same. i went with MOA because the price was right and the scope was available and i don't know how to use either one!!!
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3226689&page=1
i had the same question a few months ago. i even titled the thread the same. i went with MOA because the price was right and the scope was available and i don't know how to use either one!!!
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3226689&page=1
Re: MIL or MOA
The easy answer is to match the turret with the reticle. mil/mil or moa/moa. Ranging is one reason, but I can range with a standard moa bdc reticle as well. Where it comes in handy is follow up, or correction shots. Make a shot, measure with your reticle, adjust the turret to that number, doesnt matter how far you are. Of course it is easier with a FFP, so you do not have to worry about being at certain magnification.
As for Mil, I like it because it is much easier to count to 10 than try to figure out everything to 36, 308 pushing 178's is about 10.5 to 1000 Y. With a .1mil turret, I need 4.4 mil to get to 600Y, I dail 4.4...done. In moa I need 15.2, so do I dial 15, 15.25, and if I have a 1/2moa scope?
The easy answer is to match the turret with the reticle. mil/mil or moa/moa. Ranging is one reason, but I can range with a standard moa bdc reticle as well. Where it comes in handy is follow up, or correction shots. Make a shot, measure with your reticle, adjust the turret to that number, doesnt matter how far you are. Of course it is easier with a FFP, so you do not have to worry about being at certain magnification.
As for Mil, I like it because it is much easier to count to 10 than try to figure out everything to 36, 308 pushing 178's is about 10.5 to 1000 Y. With a .1mil turret, I need 4.4 mil to get to 600Y, I dail 4.4...done. In moa I need 15.2, so do I dial 15, 15.25, and if I have a 1/2moa scope?
Re: MIL or MOA
Pick whichever one you want, make sure it has matching turrets, and learn it. Once you've learned it well, try the other system to determine which you prefer. You'll find tons of people who favor each system and will give you pros/cons of each. Pick what YOU feel you'll be more comfortable and learn easier with.
Pick whichever one you want, make sure it has matching turrets, and learn it. Once you've learned it well, try the other system to determine which you prefer. You'll find tons of people who favor each system and will give you pros/cons of each. Pick what YOU feel you'll be more comfortable and learn easier with.
Re: MIL or MOA
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You'll have better luck here if you decide to sell a Mil/Mils scope.
</div></div>
The MIL/MIL optics are definitely popular with a lot of precision shooters, however, I posted an NXS with MOA/MOA earlier in the week and it sold for $1650 in less than 10 hours. I'd say that's pretty good luck and that the MOA/MOA is still popular with shooters as well.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You'll have better luck here if you decide to sell a Mil/Mils scope.
</div></div>
The MIL/MIL optics are definitely popular with a lot of precision shooters, however, I posted an NXS with MOA/MOA earlier in the week and it sold for $1650 in less than 10 hours. I'd say that's pretty good luck and that the MOA/MOA is still popular with shooters as well.
Re: MIL or MOA
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slipshot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">New to long range shooting. Trying to decide if MIL or MOA is the world I want to play in. Anybody care to give me reasons to go one way or the other?</div></div>
Today I would make my decision like so:
1) If you have any existing scopes that are already MIL or MOA, stick with it across the line.
2) If any of the people you regularly shoot with or are planning to shoot with already have MIL or MOA, go with what they picked. It will make spotting, learning, and shooting together easier.
3) If the above two steps don't apply to you, then I'd recommend MIL for various reasons.
4) No matter what, pick a scope with matching units for both the reticle and turret.
I went MOA for reason #2 and I'm quite happy with it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slipshot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">New to long range shooting. Trying to decide if MIL or MOA is the world I want to play in. Anybody care to give me reasons to go one way or the other?</div></div>
Today I would make my decision like so:
1) If you have any existing scopes that are already MIL or MOA, stick with it across the line.
2) If any of the people you regularly shoot with or are planning to shoot with already have MIL or MOA, go with what they picked. It will make spotting, learning, and shooting together easier.
3) If the above two steps don't apply to you, then I'd recommend MIL for various reasons.
4) No matter what, pick a scope with matching units for both the reticle and turret.
I went MOA for reason #2 and I'm quite happy with it.
Re: MIL or MOA
I own a MIL/MIL and a MOA/MOA scope, Mils are easier, every scope manufacture makes a MIL based reticle scope, most also have .1 MRAD knobs, on the MOA side every single manufacture has its own MOA designed reticle, 1 MOA or even 2 MOA hash marks are too fine(close together). No matter which system you choose DO NOT assign a hard value to it, MOA's are not inches and MIL's are not metric.
I own a MIL/MIL and a MOA/MOA scope, Mils are easier, every scope manufacture makes a MIL based reticle scope, most also have .1 MRAD knobs, on the MOA side every single manufacture has its own MOA designed reticle, 1 MOA or even 2 MOA hash marks are too fine(close together). No matter which system you choose DO NOT assign a hard value to it, MOA's are not inches and MIL's are not metric.
Re: MIL or MOA
I started with moa and swapped over to mils. Having a mil based reticle and .1 mil adjustment knobs works for me.
I started with moa and swapped over to mils. Having a mil based reticle and .1 mil adjustment knobs works for me.
Re: MIL or MOA
This question comes up a lot and there should be a sticky.
If you don't know much about either here's how I tell people to pick.
Of course make sure the reticle and turrets match.
MOA/MOA work better with fractions.
MIL/MIL work better with decimals.
If you're good with fractions pick MOA, if you're better with decimals or you're not good at math go MIL.
Here is a long explanation on issues that come up with this debate.
here
This question comes up a lot and there should be a sticky.
If you don't know much about either here's how I tell people to pick.
Of course make sure the reticle and turrets match.
MOA/MOA work better with fractions.
MIL/MIL work better with decimals.
If you're good with fractions pick MOA, if you're better with decimals or you're not good at math go MIL.
Here is a long explanation on issues that come up with this debate.
here
Re: MIL or MOA
Just make sure that whatever you decide upon the reticle and adjustments actually match. For years a big part of the industry pushed optics with mil reticles and moa adjustment. Lots of guys got used to this, but you dont have to go this route any longer.
Just make sure that whatever you decide upon the reticle and adjustments actually match. For years a big part of the industry pushed optics with mil reticles and moa adjustment. Lots of guys got used to this, but you dont have to go this route any longer.
Re: MIL or MOA
I had this same question some time ago looking at new optics I wanted to get. I have read so many of these posts to me it almost comes down to a ford vs chevy debate. I believe you can be a very proficient shooter with either system, so neither system is really "better" just a little "different".
I had this same question some time ago looking at new optics I wanted to get. I have read so many of these posts to me it almost comes down to a ford vs chevy debate. I believe you can be a very proficient shooter with either system, so neither system is really "better" just a little "different".
Re: MIL or MOA
The good thing about moa is that for group size at 100 yards 1moa is 1", at 200 yards, 1moa is 2" on out to 1000 yards 1moa is 10". Also, with a 308, round ball,
at 10mph crosswind and 100 yards crosswind correction is 1moa, at 10mph crosswind and 200 yards crosswind correction is 2moa
...
at 10mph crosswind and 1000 yards crosswind correction is 10moa etc
Unfortunately, 1moa at 100 yards isn't EXACTLY 1", it is like 1.05" a 5% error. USO has IPHY which IS exactly 1" per hundred yards. Except for DOPE and BOX test this 5% error isn't enough to worry about because 1moa group size at 1000 yards the difference is between 10 1/2"(true moa) and 10"(rounded moa).
The good thing about mils is most of the tactical shooters went this way and if you go to the tactical matches most, not all though, will have mil based scopes. 1/10th mil at 100 meters is 1cm, 1/10th mil at 200 meters is 2cm... 1/10th mil at 1000 meters is 10cm. Unfortunately most shooting courses (not all) are in yards, not meters.
Bottom line, get what your buddies have or your instructor wants you to get or what you are familiar with. If you don't know any of that, get mils because it is the up and coming thing. It's what the military uses and more tactical guys use it, it seems.
The good thing about moa is that for group size at 100 yards 1moa is 1", at 200 yards, 1moa is 2" on out to 1000 yards 1moa is 10". Also, with a 308, round ball,
at 10mph crosswind and 100 yards crosswind correction is 1moa, at 10mph crosswind and 200 yards crosswind correction is 2moa
...
at 10mph crosswind and 1000 yards crosswind correction is 10moa etc
Unfortunately, 1moa at 100 yards isn't EXACTLY 1", it is like 1.05" a 5% error. USO has IPHY which IS exactly 1" per hundred yards. Except for DOPE and BOX test this 5% error isn't enough to worry about because 1moa group size at 1000 yards the difference is between 10 1/2"(true moa) and 10"(rounded moa).
The good thing about mils is most of the tactical shooters went this way and if you go to the tactical matches most, not all though, will have mil based scopes. 1/10th mil at 100 meters is 1cm, 1/10th mil at 200 meters is 2cm... 1/10th mil at 1000 meters is 10cm. Unfortunately most shooting courses (not all) are in yards, not meters.
Bottom line, get what your buddies have or your instructor wants you to get or what you are familiar with. If you don't know any of that, get mils because it is the up and coming thing. It's what the military uses and more tactical guys use it, it seems.
Re: MIL or MOA
Can some one direct me to a link for how to use a mil reticle w/moa adjustments .... Sorry for the newb question
Can some one direct me to a link for how to use a mil reticle w/moa adjustments .... Sorry for the newb question
Re: MIL or MOA
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chavezz556</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can some one direct me to a link for how to use a mil reticle w/moa adjustments .... Sorry for the newb question </div></div>This is the simplest explanation: http://www.eabco.com/Reports/MildotRep01.htm
More complex:
http://www.mil-dot.com/media/1027/the_derivation_of_the_range_estimation_equations.pdf
If you plan on making these adjustments often do your brain a favor and get a matching reticle/turrets. Mine don't match, but I'm just shooting at fixed distances and I'm under no time pressure at all. If that changes at some point my scope will change also.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chavezz556</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can some one direct me to a link for how to use a mil reticle w/moa adjustments .... Sorry for the newb question </div></div>This is the simplest explanation: http://www.eabco.com/Reports/MildotRep01.htm
More complex:
http://www.mil-dot.com/media/1027/the_derivation_of_the_range_estimation_equations.pdf
If you plan on making these adjustments often do your brain a favor and get a matching reticle/turrets. Mine don't match, but I'm just shooting at fixed distances and I'm under no time pressure at all. If that changes at some point my scope will change also.
Re: MIL or MOA
This fella has a few videos I found very helpful. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAbaBYZa8iI&feature=youtube_gdata_player
This fella has a few videos I found very helpful. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAbaBYZa8iI&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Re: MIL or MOA
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bedlam</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slipshot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">New to long range shooting. Trying to decide if MIL or MOA is the world I want to play in. Anybody care to give me reasons to go one way or the other?</div></div>
Today I would make my decision like so:
1) If you have any existing scopes that are already MIL or MOA, stick with it across the line.
2) If any of the people you regularly shoot with or are planning to shoot with already have MIL or MOA, go with what they picked. It will make spotting, learning, and shooting together easier.
3) If the above two steps don't apply to you, then I'd recommend MIL for various reasons.
4) No matter what, pick a scope with matching units for both the reticle and turret.
I went MOA for reason #2 and I'm quite happy with it. </div></div>
I would follow Bedlam suggestion. I have MOA/MOA scope but most of the guys in club they use MIL/MIL so it is kind of challenge when they try to call my shot.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bedlam</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slipshot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">New to long range shooting. Trying to decide if MIL or MOA is the world I want to play in. Anybody care to give me reasons to go one way or the other?</div></div>
Today I would make my decision like so:
1) If you have any existing scopes that are already MIL or MOA, stick with it across the line.
2) If any of the people you regularly shoot with or are planning to shoot with already have MIL or MOA, go with what they picked. It will make spotting, learning, and shooting together easier.
3) If the above two steps don't apply to you, then I'd recommend MIL for various reasons.
4) No matter what, pick a scope with matching units for both the reticle and turret.
I went MOA for reason #2 and I'm quite happy with it. </div></div>
I would follow Bedlam suggestion. I have MOA/MOA scope but most of the guys in club they use MIL/MIL so it is kind of challenge when they try to call my shot.
Re: MIL or MOA
I prefer the MIL simply because it's a 1:1000 relationship regardless of the unit of measure.
I prefer the MIL simply because it's a 1:1000 relationship regardless of the unit of measure.
Re: MIL or MOA
I got taught and use to the retarded mil/moa way. To me its easy mil gives you a finer adjustment on your knobs but I dont mind moa.
I got taught and use to the retarded mil/moa way. To me its easy mil gives you a finer adjustment on your knobs but I dont mind moa.
Re: MIL or MOA
All of this peer pressure makes me want to switch! I haven't even had my NF for that long!
All of this peer pressure makes me want to switch! I haven't even had my NF for that long!
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