• Watch Out for Scammers!

    We've now added a color code for all accounts. Orange accounts are new members, Blue are full members, and Green are Supporters. If you get a message about a sale from an orange account, make sure you pay attention before sending any money!

Gunsmithing Surgeon/jewell/SW Ammo? Minor problem.

RobertB

Manners Stocks Support Team
Supporter
Full Member
Minuteman
  • Aug 20, 2009
    2,412
    575
    39
    Oak Grove, Louisiana
    I finally got some Soutwest ammo to run through my TVP built surgeon 260. I have only shot my handloads through it and never have had any problems. I arrive back to my house in La to shoot today where I had some SW ammo shipped to. First thing I noticed about the SW ammo is that closing the bolt was hard. Chambered a round and pulled it back out. I saw a small scrape on ONE side of the round like I was jamming it. I shot the first one out at 763 yds to see how the dope was agaist my hand loads since the ad velocity was exactly the same as mine. Hit. THought wow. So I sent 3 rounds at 100yds to verify zero. One ragged hole, very tight group. Spent the next 40 rounds shooting steel at distances between 400 to 763 yds. Every shot matches my drop almost to the last click at 763. And again, every round was hard to load. I was very weary of the first few because of that but they all fired without any problems. I have a jewell trigger that I don't know is a good idea in a field rifle. Anyway, last round I shoot (first one with no eye protection on as well) hits about 2MOA higher than others at 400 yds and gasses blow out in my eye. Felt horrible. Pulled the brass out and it was still fully intact and the primer was still there except it had a perfect little hole the size of the firing pin in it (or out of it) Now my rifle which had a 1 LB trigger pull is like a 8lb and it feels terrible. This is only dry firing it and I am not going to live fire it till the problem is fixed. Can anyone tell me what to do. If not when I go back to KC Missouri in a few days I will see if GA Precision can help me. Not sure if they do that type of work but I want to make sure it is done professionaly. Not trying to Bash SW ammo or surgeon rifles as I feel this is neither ones fault and feel that both companies products are top notch. Jewell either. I question them in field rifles though. Any help is greatly appreciated.
     
    Re: Surgeon/jewell/SW Ammo? Minor problem.

    I would flush the trigger with lighter fluid. Some crud may have blown in there when the primer was pierced.
     
    Re: Surgeon/jewell/SW Ammo? Minor problem.

    The Jewell trigger is easy to take apart. Remove the safety linkage and four small Phillips screws holding the side plate on. Use a small screw driver and very carefully pry / work the side plate off and take a look. If there is debris inside you will be able to get it out. If it's broke you'll see that also.

    Look at the primers, are they seated fully in the cartridge?

    Like Robert said, when you blank/pierce a Jewell they're bad about breaking.
     
    Re: Surgeon/jewell/SW Ammo? Minor problem.

    yes primers are seated fine. Just unbolt gun from stock? What do I retourqe to?
     
    Re: Surgeon/jewell/SW Ammo? Minor problem.

    And if broke, what is the best trigger on the market? Opinions that is
     
    Re: Surgeon/jewell/SW Ammo? Minor problem.

    Just wondering what YMMV means, thanks alot for the advice yall. I've been weary of jewell ever since I got in a small fender bender and both my BR rifles both with jewells stopped firing. Took it to my gunsmith friend and he fixed them by retuning them I guess (didn't replace either one)I have had good luck with them other than that and they feel great. Not knocking them.
     
    Re: Surgeon/jewell/SW Ammo? Minor problem.

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RobertB</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just wondering what YMMV means, thanks alot for the advice yall. I've been weary of jewell ever since I got in a small fender bender and both my BR rifles both with jewells stopped firing. Took it to my gunsmith friend and he fixed them by retuning them I guess (didn't replace either one)I have had good luck with them other than that and they feel great. Not knocking them. </div></div>


    Your Mileage May Vary
    smile.gif
     
    Re: Surgeon/jewell/SW Ammo? Minor problem.

    Going back to the load, it sounds like you have a COAL problem, and that you're having to jam the bullet into the lands, but I would guess you would have marks for each of the lands, not just one. My experience is very limited but sounds exactly like the cases that Remington experienced when inexperienced handloaders loaded rounds with bullets seated too far out of the case, which caused failures to cycle/manipulate bolt, blown primers, and gas discharge, which is why they now cut their factory chambers a little long.
     
    Re: Surgeon/jewell/SW Ammo? Minor problem.

    rideHPD is on the right track. Your most likely jamming the bullet into your lands, which your pressure will go up. How does your brass look? Are your primers flat? Any extractor marks on the brass? (someone chime in if Im wrong please)

    How does a fired case chamber? is it still tight when closing the bolt down?

    Kc
     
    Re: Surgeon/jewell/SW Ammo? Minor problem.

    Thats eexcatly what I was thinking. But the mark was one one side of the brass both times, I only chambered and pulled cartridge out 2 times. heres the deal. Put it in my seater that I use for the same bullets (142SMK) at .010 jump and it goes all the way down. I left all my reloading tools except for my wilson seater back in KC MO so I cant measure headspace or anyhting else. I just know that it is hard to chamber. So it must be in the brass? Maybe this lapua is a little longer or fatter than the win 7-08 brass I have been running. When I get back to my tools I will remeasure everything.
     
    Re: Surgeon/jewell/SW Ammo? Minor problem.



    How does a fired case chamber? is it still tight when closing the bolt down?

    Kc [/quote]Good question, havent tried that, will in a bit and get back to you on it.
     
    Re: Surgeon/jewell/SW Ammo? Minor problem.

    I had a very similar experience, albeit without the bolt stickiness. The details are below. I sent the trigger to Jewell. Jewell told me that the sear tip was broken. Jewell graciously repaired the trigger and is shipping it back to me. I have attempted, unsucessfully, to discuss the problem with SW Ammo. I have 97 rounds of SW Ammo 115 DTAC remaining. I'm very hesitant to fire them. As with the original poster, I'm not here to bash anyone. I'll confess some frustration with the lack of a reply by SW Ammo - even if it were to tell me that I'm full of poo. Any advice? Thanks very much.

    Contact attempts with SW Ammo:

    5/21/12 - Email sent. No reply.
    5/29/12 - PM sent on SH. No reply.
    5/29/12 - Voice mail left with SW Ammo. No reply.

    Text of PM to SW Ammo 5/29/12:

    Mike - I sent the following email to Zach 5/21/12. I have not received a reply. Please advise. Thank you.

    Hello Zach –

    I finally got around to shooting some of the .243 115 DTAC ammo I bought from you. I fired a total of 3 rounds. Conditions were approx. 75 degrees F at 5280 ASL. Rifle is a Surgeon 591 with Krieger 1/8 barrel. I used a CED Millenium chrono.

    Round 1 - 2933 fps
    Round 2 – 3001 fps
    Round 3 – 3026 fps

    Round 3 made an unusual noise when fired. I examined the spent cartridge and noticed a pierced primer. I later found a small piece of primer in the bolt. Please see attached poor quality cell phone pic of the spent case.

    I discontinued the range session. What do you think? Is it safe for me to fire the remainder of the 100 rounds? Please advise. Thanks very much.
     
    Re: Surgeon/jewell/SW Ammo? Minor problem.

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Robert Gradous</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jewell triggers will break when a primer lets loose and that could be what is wrong with yours. </div></div>

    That would be a serious bummer if traveling to hunt or shoot a match. I wasn't aware of that issue with the Jewell. I don't think I'll ever be using one. JMO.
     
    Re: Surgeon/jewell/SW Ammo? Minor problem.

    Thanks for that info on Jewels and blown primers. I had no idea.


    Shilen triggers have been my favorite so far. Does this same problem exist with Shilens?

    You can get Shilens without a safety or side bolt release, which is great cause not all actions/builds require a bolt release or trigger safety. They're in the $110-$135 range. Safety kits are easy to get in SS and Black. Bolt stop parts too.


    Shilens tech guys are very helpful and nice. If you cant get it adjusted yourself, theyll do it free. Did for me anyways about 4 years ago.

    Plus they seem compatible with any action/stock combo. Unlike the Timney which needs mods done to fit in certain stocks, and will not always work right with surgeon actions due to a design difference.

    So we're a fan of Shilens so far. We see no negatives to them other than they shorten firing pin throw a few thou. Doesnt matter I dont think.
    Plus they have that same nice thin trigger shoe shape as jewel.
     
    Re: Surgeon/jewell/SW Ammo? Minor problem.

    Do you know what the neck size is on your chamber? Lapua brass necks on the 260 are thicker than most. Even when I neck size 7-08 brass down the neck is still thinner than Lapua brass. i can use lapua brass in my rifle because the neck is too thick. I run Nosler with a .292 bushing IIRC. My 7-08 brass loaded neck is .295 IIRC. I will double check when I get home but this may cause the overpressure problem.
     
    Re: Surgeon/jewell/SW Ammo? Minor problem.

    Good news today. The repaired trigger arrived from Jewell. Mike at SW Ammo shipped me replacement ammo and a prepaid shipping label to return the remaining ammo from the original order. This makes me happy. Thanks to both Jewell and SW Ammo.
    smile.gif