Re: Very Frustrated with the groupings!!!!
nightshift , pm incoming!
nightshift , pm incoming!
- Thread starter Flynn
- Start date
Re: Very Frustrated with the groupings!!!!
I hope you guys can get these guns shooting better, nothing more frustrating than having a gun that you feel should good and it just keeps letting you down.
To those that have had your rifles bedded check to make sure that there is clearence behind the step in the rear tang where the rear stock screw goes in. If its bedded with no clearance as the gun starts heating up from multiple firings it can become a secondary recoil lug and that can cause you some problems with accuracy.
I hope you guys can get these guns shooting better, nothing more frustrating than having a gun that you feel should good and it just keeps letting you down.
To those that have had your rifles bedded check to make sure that there is clearence behind the step in the rear tang where the rear stock screw goes in. If its bedded with no clearance as the gun starts heating up from multiple firings it can become a secondary recoil lug and that can cause you some problems with accuracy.
Re: Very Frustrated with the groupings!!!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ridgeback80</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> friend of mine had the same problem with his spr from tac cord ! the barrel was almost touching on one side of the channel and ended up taking it to short action custom to have it fixed after tac cord did nothing! when i find the thread i will post a link! </div></div>
Ridgeback80,
Obviously your not one of my customers and stating incorrect or intentional false information towards a dealer will get you in hot water in this forum! That simple!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ridgeback80</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> friend of mine had the same problem with his spr from tac cord ! the barrel was almost touching on one side of the channel and ended up taking it to short action custom to have it fixed after tac cord did nothing! when i find the thread i will post a link! </div></div>
Ridgeback80,
Obviously your not one of my customers and stating incorrect or intentional false information towards a dealer will get you in hot water in this forum! That simple!
Re: Very Frustrated with the groupings!!!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 230grRN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
To those that have had your rifles bedded check to make sure that there is clearence behind the step in the rear tang where the rear stock screw goes in. If its bedded with no clearance as the gun starts heating up from multiple firings it can become a secondary recoil lug and that can cause you some problems with accuracy. </div></div>
Please don't be offended, just trying to learn.
1) How much does a bolt gun heat; especially in that area?
2) There are some actions out there w/ 2 lugs that are beded w/ no issues.
And wassup w/ the bedding infront of the lug in the pix; seems very uneven?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 230grRN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
To those that have had your rifles bedded check to make sure that there is clearence behind the step in the rear tang where the rear stock screw goes in. If its bedded with no clearance as the gun starts heating up from multiple firings it can become a secondary recoil lug and that can cause you some problems with accuracy. </div></div>
Please don't be offended, just trying to learn.
1) How much does a bolt gun heat; especially in that area?
2) There are some actions out there w/ 2 lugs that are beded w/ no issues.
And wassup w/ the bedding infront of the lug in the pix; seems very uneven?
Re: Very Frustrated with the groupings!!!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Please don't be offended, just trying to learn.
1) How much does a bolt gun heat; especially in that area?
2) There are some actions out there w/ 2 lugs that are beded w/ no issues.
And wassup w/ the bedding infront of the lug in the pix; seems very uneven?</div></div>
No offense taken, in some rifles it may not cause a problem, but in some it does, the why some do and some don't is beyond me. In just try to avoid the issue and mask those areas out while bedding.
As far as heat goes it doesn't take alot for metal to grow a .0001 or .0002. If your have ever seen a micrometer standard they are rubber coated in the center to avoid heat transfer from just your hand causing false readings.
In most rifles with two lugs (not all) they are usually bigger magnums and in that case the lugs are used to spread the recoil energy to more stock surface to avoid possible stock damage or other issues. Having not delt with any two lug actions/rifles I'm no sure how they deal with the issue of possible only having one lug make contact at certain times.
They reason it looks uneven is because thats how it was squeeved into the barrel channel from the lug area during bedding process. Some guys remove it some don't.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Please don't be offended, just trying to learn.
1) How much does a bolt gun heat; especially in that area?
2) There are some actions out there w/ 2 lugs that are beded w/ no issues.
And wassup w/ the bedding infront of the lug in the pix; seems very uneven?</div></div>
No offense taken, in some rifles it may not cause a problem, but in some it does, the why some do and some don't is beyond me. In just try to avoid the issue and mask those areas out while bedding.
As far as heat goes it doesn't take alot for metal to grow a .0001 or .0002. If your have ever seen a micrometer standard they are rubber coated in the center to avoid heat transfer from just your hand causing false readings.
In most rifles with two lugs (not all) they are usually bigger magnums and in that case the lugs are used to spread the recoil energy to more stock surface to avoid possible stock damage or other issues. Having not delt with any two lug actions/rifles I'm no sure how they deal with the issue of possible only having one lug make contact at certain times.
They reason it looks uneven is because thats how it was squeeved into the barrel channel from the lug area during bedding process. Some guys remove it some don't.
Re: Very Frustrated with the groupings!!!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 230grRN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
They reason it looks uneven is because thats how it was squeeved into the barrel channel from the lug area during bedding process. Some guys remove it some don't. </div></div>
I've never seen it uneven as a "pad" from a reputable smith.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 230grRN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
They reason it looks uneven is because thats how it was squeeved into the barrel channel from the lug area during bedding process. Some guys remove it some don't. </div></div>
I've never seen it uneven as a "pad" from a reputable smith.
Re: Very Frustrated with the groupings!!!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 230grRN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
They reason it looks uneven is because thats how it was squeeved into the barrel channel from the lug area during bedding process. Some guys remove it some don't. </div></div>
I've never seen it uneven as a "pad" from a reputable smith. </div></div>
Well, since we don't charge extra to do it and it does not effect performance I normally don't worry about it considering the standard bedding is a spot bedding. People seem to forget that I am not charging for the bedding job which is still way better than the standard one that comes on the A2's from the factory. If I charged the normal $200 on a complete custom build then yes it would look different.
And my smith is one of the best in the business and extremely competent. Until you have done it in the volume we are doing it to keep up with demand then please don't knock it....
Mike
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 230grRN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
They reason it looks uneven is because thats how it was squeeved into the barrel channel from the lug area during bedding process. Some guys remove it some don't. </div></div>
I've never seen it uneven as a "pad" from a reputable smith. </div></div>
Well, since we don't charge extra to do it and it does not effect performance I normally don't worry about it considering the standard bedding is a spot bedding. People seem to forget that I am not charging for the bedding job which is still way better than the standard one that comes on the A2's from the factory. If I charged the normal $200 on a complete custom build then yes it would look different.
And my smith is one of the best in the business and extremely competent. Until you have done it in the volume we are doing it to keep up with demand then please don't knock it....
Mike
Re: Very Frustrated with the groupings!!!!
The bedding thing is a interesting deal, if it's not perfect people will grumble, if it is you had to charge for it and ,,,, people will grumble...
I work on race cars a lot, very similar to the gun hobby folks.
Some care about the hidden stuff some don't. When we do an engine we de-flash the interior of the block (Knock off the casting flash with a die grinder)to allow better oil flow. I've had several folks grumble about the grinder marks, Unless we are specifically paid to, we don't polish them ,, not like cast iron polishes very well... You get 99.9 percent of the benefit withthe step we do as part of the job, to get the other .01% is another 200 bucks.. Go figure...
I wonder if there is a easy way to make a "dam" that would pretty up the spot bed without making it harder? Like a pre-formed wax bit you could insert to check the flow of the bedding glass into a better shape? Just for the cosmetics?
I'm thinking the wax strips my daughter used on her braces when she first got them... box of thin soft wax strips like strips of gum...
Oh well cheers...
Dave
The bedding thing is a interesting deal, if it's not perfect people will grumble, if it is you had to charge for it and ,,,, people will grumble...
I work on race cars a lot, very similar to the gun hobby folks.
Some care about the hidden stuff some don't. When we do an engine we de-flash the interior of the block (Knock off the casting flash with a die grinder)to allow better oil flow. I've had several folks grumble about the grinder marks, Unless we are specifically paid to, we don't polish them ,, not like cast iron polishes very well... You get 99.9 percent of the benefit withthe step we do as part of the job, to get the other .01% is another 200 bucks.. Go figure...
I wonder if there is a easy way to make a "dam" that would pretty up the spot bed without making it harder? Like a pre-formed wax bit you could insert to check the flow of the bedding glass into a better shape? Just for the cosmetics?
I'm thinking the wax strips my daughter used on her braces when she first got them... box of thin soft wax strips like strips of gum...
Oh well cheers...
Dave
Re: Very Frustrated with the groupings!!!!
Check to make sure your thread protector is not coming loose while you're shooting. From my observation of this thread that's the one thing that hasn't been mentioned. Hope this helps.
Check to make sure your thread protector is not coming loose while you're shooting. From my observation of this thread that's the one thing that hasn't been mentioned. Hope this helps.
Re: Very Frustrated with the groupings!!!!
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Re: Very Frustrated with the groupings!!!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ridgeback80</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TAC-CORD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ridgeback80</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> friend of mine had the same problem with his spr from tac cord ! the barrel was almost touching on one side of the channel and ended up taking it to short action custom to have it fixed after tac cord did nothing! when i find the thread i will post a link! </div></div>
Ridgeback80,
Obviously your not one of my customers and stating incorrect or intentional false information towards a dealer will get you in hot water in this forum! That simple! </div></div>
i seen first hand one of the rifles , the guy is from wapak OH and he had to take it to sac to have it fixed ! ( worst bedding job every) There is no false info here and just because your a dealer doesn't mean shit to me !now if you want to keep it up with the harassing pm's we can see who will get the ban hammer! </div></div>
Once again your not a customer of mine, and second the customer in question did not take it anywhere. It started at his dealer, and the dealer and I handled it. Obviously your not a representative of my company, or his from what I can tell, but as discussed in another thread that actually was taken care of, and of course you not being involved in any part of the process would cause me to question your motives?
I might even get SAC on here to back me up...?
No worries at this point it has been forwarded to a Moderator.
See your comment "<span style="color: #FF0000">ended up taking it to short action custom to have it fixed after tac cord did nothing!</span>"
Short action custom was the receiving dealer, and like I said your trolling to start crap. Yes your a LIAR! You should not be involving yourself and intentionally contacting my customers on this forum to spread rumors that are not true. It's that simple!
Mike
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ridgeback80</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TAC-CORD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ridgeback80</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> friend of mine had the same problem with his spr from tac cord ! the barrel was almost touching on one side of the channel and ended up taking it to short action custom to have it fixed after tac cord did nothing! when i find the thread i will post a link! </div></div>
Ridgeback80,
Obviously your not one of my customers and stating incorrect or intentional false information towards a dealer will get you in hot water in this forum! That simple! </div></div>
i seen first hand one of the rifles , the guy is from wapak OH and he had to take it to sac to have it fixed ! ( worst bedding job every) There is no false info here and just because your a dealer doesn't mean shit to me !now if you want to keep it up with the harassing pm's we can see who will get the ban hammer! </div></div>
Once again your not a customer of mine, and second the customer in question did not take it anywhere. It started at his dealer, and the dealer and I handled it. Obviously your not a representative of my company, or his from what I can tell, but as discussed in another thread that actually was taken care of, and of course you not being involved in any part of the process would cause me to question your motives?
I might even get SAC on here to back me up...?
No worries at this point it has been forwarded to a Moderator.
See your comment "<span style="color: #FF0000">ended up taking it to short action custom to have it fixed after tac cord did nothing!</span>"
Short action custom was the receiving dealer, and like I said your trolling to start crap. Yes your a LIAR! You should not be involving yourself and intentionally contacting my customers on this forum to spread rumors that are not true. It's that simple!
Mike
Re: Very Frustrated with the groupings!!!!
I need to repeat that Mike has been very willing to help with my rifle. He called me on a Sunday to return a message I left on Saturday. Basically, Mike called and asked me to ship the rifle in so he could make it right. The rifle is now on its way to his shop. Honestly, I don't know what else one could reasonably expect in these circumstances. No, I'm not happy to have problems. On the other hand, I'm happy Mike (without hesitation) is willing and eager to make me happy. The communication and customer service have been very good.
I need to repeat that Mike has been very willing to help with my rifle. He called me on a Sunday to return a message I left on Saturday. Basically, Mike called and asked me to ship the rifle in so he could make it right. The rifle is now on its way to his shop. Honestly, I don't know what else one could reasonably expect in these circumstances. No, I'm not happy to have problems. On the other hand, I'm happy Mike (without hesitation) is willing and eager to make me happy. The communication and customer service have been very good.
Re: Very Frustrated with the groupings!!!!
This is very good to hear Flynn.
Been eyeing one of Mike's A2/A4s and it is good to see that even <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">if</span></span> there was an issue (there seem to be dozens that haven't), that Mike stands behind his work.
This is awesome to see.
This is very good to hear Flynn.
Been eyeing one of Mike's A2/A4s and it is good to see that even <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">if</span></span> there was an issue (there seem to be dozens that haven't), that Mike stands behind his work.
This is awesome to see.
Re: Very Frustrated with the groupings!!!!
I would like too publicly apologize to Mike and Tactical Coordination! For the comments i made in this thread ! I stuck my nose where it didn't belong and for that i am sorry ! Mike has agreed to fix or replace the rifle in question and that says a lot about Mike! Again i am sorry!
I would like too publicly apologize to Mike and Tactical Coordination! For the comments i made in this thread ! I stuck my nose where it didn't belong and for that i am sorry ! Mike has agreed to fix or replace the rifle in question and that says a lot about Mike! Again i am sorry!
Re: Very Frustrated with the groupings!!!!
Re: Very Frustrated with the groupings!!!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ridgeback80</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would like too publicly apologize to Mike and Tactical Coordination! For the comments i made in this thread ! I stuck my nose where it didn't belong and for that i am sorry ! Mike has agreed to fix or replace the rifle in question and that says a lot about Mike! Again i am sorry! </div></div>
It was big of you to say that. I'm glad to hear your buddy will be squared away..
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ridgeback80</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would like too publicly apologize to Mike and Tactical Coordination! For the comments i made in this thread ! I stuck my nose where it didn't belong and for that i am sorry ! Mike has agreed to fix or replace the rifle in question and that says a lot about Mike! Again i am sorry! </div></div>
It was big of you to say that. I'm glad to hear your buddy will be squared away..
Re: Very Frustrated with the groupings!!!!
That's good enough for me. Thank you.
It just a matter of missed information. I think what some people don't realize is that with current information available to the masses that in regards to someones lively hood and their own company that individuals need to watch what is said and make sure the information given is correct, OR we are all just a bunch of typical news reporters that do not verify anything!
I am not Walmart, or DPMS, or any other large company. This is how I feed my family and keep a roof over our heads. I take care of my customers and back them 100% even if I did not manufacture the weapon. Yet when some comments are made and it makes others question my Company even if the information is not correct it is normally enough to damage someone.
OK, now I'm off my soapbox..
Thanks Mike
That's good enough for me. Thank you.
It just a matter of missed information. I think what some people don't realize is that with current information available to the masses that in regards to someones lively hood and their own company that individuals need to watch what is said and make sure the information given is correct, OR we are all just a bunch of typical news reporters that do not verify anything!
I am not Walmart, or DPMS, or any other large company. This is how I feed my family and keep a roof over our heads. I take care of my customers and back them 100% even if I did not manufacture the weapon. Yet when some comments are made and it makes others question my Company even if the information is not correct it is normally enough to damage someone.
OK, now I'm off my soapbox..
Thanks Mike
Re: Very Frustrated with the groupings!!!!
This is exactly why I shoot 3 shot groups - just kidding. Hope you get the problem solved. Good shooting.
This is exactly why I shoot 3 shot groups - just kidding. Hope you get the problem solved. Good shooting.
Re: Very Frustrated with the groupings!!!!
I know I'm entering kinda late in the game here but my Remington 700 VTR in .308 is throwing some flyers. The flyer could occur at any point in the string of fire and could go in any direction. I can guarantee it is not a loose scope in my case because I use four rings on a rail base. All screws are tightened with Gun-tite and a torque wrench (refer to picture below).
The research I have done always seems to turn up the same couple of culprits. The first is inconsistent neck tension, which I think I have ruled out. The second is barrel temperature, which does not make sense to me if the flyer could occur anywhere in the string.
However, I am looking forward to checking out the other possible culprits posted in this thread. Thanks for the good info!
I know I'm entering kinda late in the game here but my Remington 700 VTR in .308 is throwing some flyers. The flyer could occur at any point in the string of fire and could go in any direction. I can guarantee it is not a loose scope in my case because I use four rings on a rail base. All screws are tightened with Gun-tite and a torque wrench (refer to picture below).
The research I have done always seems to turn up the same couple of culprits. The first is inconsistent neck tension, which I think I have ruled out. The second is barrel temperature, which does not make sense to me if the flyer could occur anywhere in the string.
However, I am looking forward to checking out the other possible culprits posted in this thread. Thanks for the good info!
