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Brand new LMT... Broke

Awesymoto

Awesymoto outdoors
Full Member
Minuteman
Jan 5, 2011
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Eye da hoe
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So let me start off with this. 6 months after I ordered my rifle it arrives. In all its glory it truly is a sight to see. I quickly open the box up and take my rifle out to wonder. I pull the bolts out and the barrel is a beauty in itself. In the barrel goes and with the tourque wrench provided I re-tourqe the bolts. 140"lbs were noted and I turn the handle to hear a snap... Hmmm new wrench, next bolt same deal. Congrats I just snapped both bolts on my brand new rifle. E-mailed LMT explaining what happened and am waiting for a response by mon.... I know it's only 2 bolts but wtf... The tourqe wrench is now in the garbage.

Moral of story... Don't use factory tourque wrench
 
Re: Brand new LMT... Broke

Are you sure you know how to use a torque wrench?
 
Re: Brand new LMT... Broke

Same thing happened to me. They will send you out some new bolts. I would call them first thing Monday though.
 
Re: Brand new LMT... Broke

That had to feel like getting your bagged kicked in when you were totally unexpecting it.

I understand they set the wrenches than tape them at the needed tourque. I wonder if this causes the wrench to bind. a TW should be stored at rest - 0 setting.

My MWS is in the pipeline now since end of March. Thank you for this post. I'll use my Snap-On TW for initial maintenance and I'll verify the accesory wrench.

What do they use for bolts? 140 inch pounds is what? 12 foot pounds? I think my HD uses 18 foot pounds for oil drain plug and spark plugs and thats a steel to aluminum connection (granted a bigger sized screw thread). I'm assuming it would take way more than 140" pounds to snap a bolt. Whats the female connection - aluminum or a steel insert? I guess the bolts are some sort of shear bolt - cheaper to snap a bolt than strip a mono top end.
 
Re: Brand new LMT... Broke

I use the factory torque wrench without problems. Have heard others state that they arn't any good. I havn't had a problem though.
 
Re: Brand new LMT... Broke

The wrench that came with my MWS was preset and taped. The tape had initials and "140" on it as though it had been calibrated. The graduations on the wrench were marked in FT lbs not IN lbs. 140inlbs is about 11.5ftlbs.

The bolts are designed to break if too much torque is applied. The upper also has threaded steel inserts in the aluminum.
 
Re: Brand new LMT... Broke

Sorry to hear of your experience - that has to be disheartening, but LMT does make great guns. They are doing themselves a huge disservice with that freakin poor excuse for a torque wrench though. This is not the first time I've heard of this happening.
 
Re: Brand new LMT... Broke

I use my Snap-on tw, I know what it's going to do. No worries OP, you'll be back in the game soon.

Ought to ask for an extra bolt, just for shits and grins.
 
Re: Brand new LMT... Broke

Sorry to hear about your problem. I also had to re-torque my MWS after it shooting 4-5" 100yard groups. The dim wit Tech told me some one must have taken the barrel out. I was at the store when they took it out of the shipping carton and told him so. He told me they fire 100 rounds before they leave the factory. I don't think they do or they don't both to inspect the groups. After re-torquing MWS was hooting less than 1" groups. It really ticks me off that an almost $3000 rifle gets out the factory that way. I have heard the same complaint form several MWS owners. I think they are in desperate need of some reeducation in their QC department. Reminds me of what happened to SIG's QC, but I hope not.
 
Re: Brand new LMT... Broke

Devil Dog!
Is that weapon not Marine proof? Tell the truth you used your super powers. Little Jack says Hi.

We hope your school is going well for you.
 
Re: Brand new LMT... Broke

E-mailed lmt.
Just wondering here does any body know what the bolt specs are? I searched for 30 size torque head bolts but would like a machinist here to verify the length and type... And whatever else. Lmt prob isn't making bolts, they have to get them from somewhere...
Edit jack! Haha no they are not school is good 1/2 wAy through
 
Re: Brand new LMT... Broke

I would be very upset should this happen to me.. I guess I am a little bit less understanding.. especially when you dish out those prices.
 
Re: Brand new LMT... Broke

It is a good habit to set your torque wrench and put a similar bolt in a vice. Torque that bolt a few times before you go to torque something critical such as the barrel bolts. Here is a site explaining a what I am talking about, it's in the usage part. I found out a few years ago when my snappy did the same thing.

http://www.protorquetools.com/23/protool_tips.htm
 
Re: Brand new LMT... Broke

I don't own a LMT, is anyone concerned these bolts might be torqued right to the edge of failure and fail in the field under hard use? Not trying to hijack the OP's thread just curious.

Operator...
 
Re: Brand new LMT... Broke

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ar15operator</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't own a LMT, is anyone concerned these bolts might be torqued right to the edge of failure and fail in the field under hard use? Not trying to hijack the OP's thread just curious.

Operator...</div></div>

I own a MWS. The bolts are more than adequate for the torque specification. Curiosity and excitement also caused me to remove my barrel when I received it. I gave the torque wrench a try and could tell that it was getting way to tight so I got a torque wrench I new I could trust to torque it down. Years of auto tech experience may have saved me. The rifle is of high quality the wrench is not. Just looking at it and I knew I'd never trust it to torque the barrel. I have quite a bit of rounds through mine without major problems. Just some chipping of the chrome on the bolt carrier which they refinished.
 
Re: Brand new LMT... Broke

Roger that MR JOSHUA. Sounds like new LMT owners need to treat the provided wrench like a complimentary cable lock and pitch it in the garbage upon opening the box.

operator...


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MR JOSHUA</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ar15operator</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't own a LMT, is anyone concerned these bolts might be torqued right to the edge of failure and fail in the field under hard use? Not trying to hijack the OP's thread just curious.

Operator...</div></div>

I own a MWS. The bolts are more than adequate for the torque specification. Curiosity and excitement also caused me to remove my barrel when I received it. I gave the torque wrench a try and could tell that it was getting way to tight so I got a torque wrench I new I could trust to torque it down. Years of auto tech experience may have saved me. The rifle is of high quality the wrench is not. Just looking at it and I knew I'd never trust it to torque the barrel. I have quite a bit of rounds through mine without major problems. Just some chipping of the chrome on the bolt carrier which they refinished. </div></div>
 
Re: Brand new LMT... Broke

Still, if I'd dropped that much coin on a rifle like this, I'd be pretty damn pissed that the provided torque wrench was more for decoration than actual use. I admire the OP's patience and understanding.
 
Re: Brand new LMT... Broke

Well if a better tourque wrench meant another $200 to the price I'd ask that they keep the wrench or make it optional. I have a nice wrench, I dont need another - unless they were going to provide a Seekonk or something packable.

The coin spent should be for the rifle. They have decided to meet their MSRP by cheaping out on the wrench. What they should be faulted for is not including extra bolts and a warning that the wrench is for intermittent use and should be excercised/verified prior to use on the rifle. They would be better not including it if the one they have is creating enough problems that a Google search turns up a number of similar posts.
 
Re: Brand new LMT... Broke

I, so far, have resisted removing the barrel. My tw was, IRRC, still in the plastic clamshell and I didn't even look at it. No matter, I have a good one already in the tool chest.
Bigger question I have is barrel availability. If I try to order, say a 260, how ling am I going to have to wait?
 
Re: Brand new LMT... Broke

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pmclaine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well if a better tourque wrench meant another $200 to the price I'd ask that they keep the wrench or make it optional. I have a nice wrench, I dont need another - unless they were going to provide a Seekins or something packable.

The coin spent should be for the rifle. They have decided to meet their MSRP by cheaping out on the wrench. What they should be faulted for is not including extra bolts and a warning that the wrench is for intermittent use and should be excercised/verified prior to use on the rifle. They would be better not including it if the one they have is creating enough problems that a Google search turns up a number of similar posts. </div></div>

Truly nailed it...my own personal tests over the years using MRP/MWS platforms have clearly shown that torque amt. isn't sensitive at all. After at least a cpl. hundred individual barrel swaps, I slowly come to the method of almost never using any kind of TW...a T-handle once you get used to doing this incredibly easy task is all you need.

Thank the stars LMT doesn't tack on $150-200 on the tag of already perhaps lb. for lb. the most expensive AR out there. Quite frankly Ive always been surprised they've managed to provide any TW with both the rifles or an upper for essentially free. They wouldn't be unreasonable to expect the end users to provide themselves with the tool needed since they themselves have to outsource them.

Why risk the small inconvenience of sheering a bolt with an over torque amount when I can assure you that using any torque amt. in the range of say 100-140....as that is what I've actually tested is all that it requires. Another thing is that you might be able to go with 90 even considering that the very first GEN 1 MRP chassis back in the fall of 2004 had 2 individual silver washers under the bolts and the manual called for 90in/lb. After a year or two LMT switched to the current figure eight washer that fits under the bolts and now all manuals call for the 140in/lb setting.

My pal at LMT doesn't use a TW on his MRP/MWS....and two of the first MRPs users I know of, that own multiple ones use nothing but a T-handle wrench.

Not really fair to call a brand new MWS broken when it's a bolt that was designed to sheer when over torqued by the <span style="text-decoration: underline">end user</span>...not the <span style="text-decoration: underline">mfg'r</span>
wink.gif
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Re: Brand new LMT... Broke

I purchased a Seekonk TW for mt LMT MWS and MRP's....it was well worth the money spent. In addition, do not lube the bolts before you torque...I know this sounds crazy, but it will allow you to severely overload the bolt. Lubrication can increase the stress as much as 50 to 75%. If you were to use lubrication the torque would have to be modified.

The bolt that LMT uses is a .250", body fit type bolt, engineered and ground to the .250 dimension, if I had to guess ground to +/-.0001" To keep the barrel indexed and fit front to rear.

I did some calculations and 140 in-lbs is about right for this size of bolt. To get the actual number, I would need the type of metal/specification and the heat treatment, if any.

Do yourself a favor, toss the torque wrench that comes with the rifle and buy a Seekonk, preset to 140 in-lbs or 11.67 ft-lbs.

My Seekonk is in the picture below
77Bronc004.jpg


77
 
Re: Brand new LMT... Broke

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Awesymoto</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To add insult to injury, I just got T-boned by a chick driving yesterday... this weekend is awesome! </div></div>

I hope she was hot.
 
Re: Brand new LMT... Broke

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pmclaine</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Awesymoto</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To add insult to injury, I just got T-boned by a chick driving yesterday... this weekend is awesome! </div></div>

I hope she was hot. </div></div>
def not....