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260 or 6.5 creedmoor

cowboy_coffee

cowboy_coffee

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Aug 23, 2010
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Moriarty, NM
Thinking about a new build, 260 I understand is going to be about 100 - 150 fps faster than the Creedmoor, but the Hornady 140 amax factory ammo is a great convenience....anyone out here have a good source for 260 brass, or should I just neck up 243 for the 260?
 
Re: 260 or 6.5 creedmoor

Same-Same

Almost identical ballistics. If you dont reload go with the 6.5 Creed.
 
Re: 260 or 6.5 creedmoor

Cabelas online usually has 260 Remington Brass.
 
Re: 260 or 6.5 creedmoor

.260 is a sweet shooter, and from what I understand has a better barrel life compare to the 6.5 Creedmoor. I vote .260 Cor Bon makes great factory match ammo, and if you're going to reload anyway then just get the .260. If you don't then I hope you have another .308 to shoot for fun and practice!
 
Re: 260 or 6.5 creedmoor

Dirty D took the words right out of my mouth!

I went with the 6.5 Creed bc I don't reload.
 
Re: 260 or 6.5 creedmoor

If I'm not mistaken midway usa has the lapua brass for the .260 rem. Hope this helps with your decision.
 
Re: 260 or 6.5 creedmoor

A good re-loader friend of mine recommends necking up rather than down
 
Re: 260 or 6.5 creedmoor

You can get a higher velocity out of the 260, as long as you seat the bullets out to the bullets efficient seating depth.
 
Re: 260 or 6.5 creedmoor

The 6.5 Creedmoor was designed with several great features. The case is shorter, to allow for efficient bullet seating depth in standard magazines
 
Re: 260 or 6.5 creedmoor

There are companies loading for both the 260 and 6.5 Creedmoor, but the Hornady 6.5 Creedmoor is hard to beat with single digit standard deviation out of factory ammo
 
Re: 260 or 6.5 creedmoor

Everyone brings up this article (http://demigodllc.com/articles/6.5-shootout-260-6.5x47-6.5-creedmoor/) when this question gets asked. It's certianly worth a read.

My next rifle will be in .260 or 6.5 Creedmoor... I'll choose between them based on how much time has passed since now. If I'm reloading, it will likely be the .260 and if I'm not, it'll probably be the 6.5 Creedmoor.

The ballistics, from what I understand, really are not a factor in choosing between these two. They will basically put out the same numbers if you load 'em right for what you want them to do.

Good luck in your decision, and keep us updated!
 
Re: 260 or 6.5 creedmoor

I like the Creed because of the Hornady factory ammo. Amazingly accurate for the price compared to quality versions of other non .308 rounds.

I have yet to see or hear of anyone that has chambered a decent barrel for Creedmoor and not had a great shooter right off the bat.

I know reloading is more economical, and often more accurate if you do it correctly. But I just like having the flexibility of knowing the if a situation forces it, I can walk in to a shop and walk out with a box of ammo that I 100% know will shoot very well out of my rifle without breaking the bank.

With the Lapua, I know the brass is better. But I dont know about other areas, but I can buy CM here at most of our retailers and I have yet to see the Lapua. It is almost double the cost as well.
 
Re: 260 or 6.5 creedmoor

I think the Creed has a more effiecient case design. I get 2875 out of my 28" tube with 42.9 H4350. You have more brass options with a .260, that is the only advatange I see over the Creed. YMMV.
 
Re: 260 or 6.5 creedmoor

I went with 6.5CM from the standpoint of the factory Hornady loads. I picked up 1200 rounds, saving the brass for loading later on. Once I get some empties, I will start loading and my hope/plan is to match the factory loading for consistency. That way, if I run low on either, I can either grab them of the shelf or make some more. Same reason also, the 6.5CM is accurate, available and the Hornady load is 5-10 cheaper than other offered "custom" 6.5 loads.
 
Re: 260 or 6.5 creedmoor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Moots</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There are companies loading for both the 260 and 6.5 Creedmoor, but the Hornady 6.5 Creedmoor is hard to beat with single digit standard deviation out of factory ammo</div></div>

I'll echo what Tate said

these are my wife's first 4 shots out of a brand new barrel at 100yds with factory Hornady 140 AMAX
65CMtarget.jpg
 
Re: 260 or 6.5 creedmoor

Flip a coin...seriously - they're basically the same thing.

FWIW (nothing) no gun shops around me stock Hornady 6.5 Creedmoor ammo, and only Bass Pro has Rem green box 140gr PSP ammo for the 260. In other words, *FOR ME* either cartridge would be a reload or mail-order loaded ammo proposition.

My choice was 260, but it was easy as I was already set up to reload 260 as I had a mid-90s M700 deer rifle in that caliber.

Southwest Ammo has 260 Rem/142 SMK ammo for $27 per 20, and Midway has 140gr Amax Creedmoor ammo for $25.50 per 20. Pricing on the new 260 Rem Federal Gold Metal Match remains to be seen, as its seemingly unobtanium right now.

Did I mention flip a coin?
 
Re: 260 or 6.5 creedmoor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Moots</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 6.5 Creedmoor was designed with several great features. The case is shorter, to allow for efficient bullet seating depth in standard magazines </div></div>

But that same trait can be a hindrance when you go to select your magazine for DBM. The shorter rounds have a hard time staying in an AW mag.
 
Re: 260 or 6.5 creedmoor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RSA-Raven</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hi-Jack Alert...
How about 6.5x47Lapua?

Rgds
R-Raven </div></div>

If you want less velocity.... go for it.
 
Re: 260 or 6.5 creedmoor

I just picked up a 6.5 creedmoor this week. I used to like shooting the heavy 30 calibers but this 6.5 is nice. It's in a ruger target model with a 28" barrel. The hornady ammo seems very nice so far. I've started on a box of 120 a max since that was all I found local and ordered some 140 to try out. If the ammo stays consistent then I see no reason for me to start loading myself.
 
Re: 260 or 6.5 creedmoor

Powder valley has 260 brass at a good price. I just ordered 300 pieces of Lapua brass from them yesterday
 
Re: 260 or 6.5 creedmoor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cowboy_Coffee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thinking about a new build, 260 I understand is going to be about 100 - 150 fps faster than the Creedmoor, but the Hornady 140 amax factory ammo is a great convenience....anyone out here have a good source for 260 brass, or should I just neck up 243 for the 260? </div></div>

i'm not so sure about that. what are guys getting for velocity with a 140 class bullet in a 260? i am getting 2860 with 140 amax out of my creed at 2.810 oal.
 
Re: 260 or 6.5 creedmoor

Will that Federal be about $24 a box?

The 100-150fps more in a .260 is wrong. You can get the same velocities out of a Creedmoor. I am getting 2930fps out of a 140 AMAX in a 26.5" barrel. No pressure. Ballistically they are the same. You need to choose which one fits you best.

Also the barrel life post is wrong. It depends on how either round is shot through the rifle but they use about the same powder charge of the same powder and have similar barrel lives in the 3000-4000 range.

Also the Creedmoor case isn't that short. It's trim length is 1.910". It will feed fine from magazines.
 
Re: 260 or 6.5 creedmoor

That is a great group, the only way I could ever get one like that is to shoot at like 25 yards. That girl can shoot!
 
Re: 260 or 6.5 creedmoor

Rob, I'm guessing you have shot that barrel a bit to get that much velocity????

What powder are you using?
 
Re: 260 or 6.5 creedmoor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Moots</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 6.5 Creedmoor was designed with several great features. The case is shorter, to allow for efficient bullet seating depth in standard magazines </div></div>

But that same trait can be a hindrance when you go to select your magazine for DBM. The shorter rounds have a hard time staying in an AW mag. </div></div>

Negative. You'll have no problem with AW mags. If you're having an issue, it's probably a mag issue.
 
Re: 260 or 6.5 creedmoor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Moots</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 6.5 Creedmoor was designed with several great features. The case is shorter, to allow for efficient bullet seating depth in standard magazines </div></div>

But that same trait can be a hindrance when you go to select your magazine for DBM. The shorter rounds have a hard time staying in an AW mag. </div></div>

Negative. You'll have no problem with AW mags. If you're having an issue, it's probably a mag issue. </div></div>

That makes no sense.
"I'll have no problems with an AW mag, but If I'm having an issue its mag related"
Is that kind of like "60% of the time it works every time"?

I am having an issue with 6.5 Creedmoor feeding from an AW mag into my Templar S. I've had to bend the feed lips and contour the follower to get it reliable. Its just the different case design. My 260 in the same setup feeds 100% of the time and does not suffer the same hang ups. But it could also be the chassis Im using. I just dont see how identical setups feed so much differently. But this is not a issue that would make or break my decision on the caliber. I've dealt with the issue and kept going.
 
Re: 260 or 6.5 creedmoor

Tate I use H4350. Great powder for either. Just had the barrel set back at GAP a few months back so it has a few rounds down it but it was shooting fast before. Barrels are different though as you know.
 
Re: 260 or 6.5 creedmoor

Same same. 4350 is the go to powder for most, but in my 260 RL-17 is giving me higher velocities and lower ES. I tested 5 different RL-17 loads from 41.5g-43.5g, and all but one had an ES less than 12. The load I settled on is 43 grains of RL-17 in a Lapua case pushing a 140 Berger Hybrid at 2808 fps out of my 22" Bartlein 1 in 8.
 
Re: 260 or 6.5 creedmoor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Moots</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 6.5 Creedmoor was designed with several great features. The case is shorter, to allow for efficient bullet seating depth in standard magazines </div></div>

But that same trait can be a hindrance when you go to select your magazine for DBM. The shorter rounds have a hard time staying in an AW mag. </div></div>

Negative. You'll have no problem with AW mags. If you're having an issue, it's probably a mag issue. </div></div>

That makes no sense.
"I'll have no problems with an AW mag, but If I'm having an issue its mag related"
Is that kind of like "60% of the time it works every time"?

I am having an issue with 6.5 Creedmoor feeding from an AW mag into my Templar S. I've had to bend the feed lips and contour the follower to get it reliable. Its just the different case design. My 260 in the same setup feeds 100% of the time and does not suffer the same hang ups. But it could also be the chassis Im using. I just dont see how identical setups feed so much differently. But this is not a issue that would make or break my decision on the caliber. I've dealt with the issue and kept going. </div></div>

I run AW mags with a 6.5x47L (which is even shorter) and it feeds flawless. I don't see the connection between feeding problems and case length. I would check seating depth of the mag.
 
Re: 260 or 6.5 creedmoor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Moots</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 6.5 Creedmoor was designed with several great features. The case is shorter, to allow for efficient bullet seating depth in standard magazines </div></div>

But that same trait can be a hindrance when you go to select your magazine for DBM. The shorter rounds have a hard time staying in an AW mag. </div></div>

Negative. You'll have no problem with AW mags. If you're having an issue, it's probably a mag issue. </div></div>


That makes no sense.
"I'll have no problems with an AW mag, but If I'm having an issue its mag related"
Is that kind of like "60% of the time it works every time"?

I am having an issue with 6.5 Creedmoor feeding from an AW mag into my Templar S. I've had to bend the feed lips and contour the follower to get it reliable. Its just the different case design. My 260 in the same setup feeds 100% of the time and does not suffer the same hang ups. But it could also be the chassis Im using. I just dont see how identical setups feed so much differently. But this is not a issue that would make or break my decision on the caliber. I've dealt with the issue and kept going. </div></div>

I guess I have to explain.

If you're having an issue with 6.5 CM feeding, it is more likely related to an issue with the mags themselves rather than an issue with the OAL of the 6.5CM. Meaning that "mag issue" would most likely give you problems with any caliber round, not the 6.5CM specifically.
 
Re: 260 or 6.5 creedmoor

Since I've had both in a precision, custom bolt action I will relay my experiences in particular order:

<span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">1) Barrel life:</span></span>

My 260 ran around 3500rd and was shooting acceptably, but not as tight as it started (under 3/8MOA was up to around 1/2 MOA) and I threw out the barrel.

A friend of mine had a 260 run about 5200rd at 1/2MOA consistently and then over the course of 20rd it went to a 4MOA shotgun.

Consistent reports seem to indicate about 4000rd for tactical applications is a reasonable expectation.

My first 6.5CM barrel started out as a sub 1/4 MOA barrel and shot that way for more than 4000rd. At 4600rd the barrel was still shooting in the low 0.3's but the CBS (as opposed to Cold Shooter) was floating around about 1/2MOA from the general point of aim. It was requiring cleaning every 150ish rounds to stay under 1/2 MOA and matches were starting to stack up so I pulled it and installed a new one. <span style="font-style: italic">I ran this barrel like a rented mule often. I had numerous days where I went to the range and in an hour would burn 100+ rounds just practicing movers til it was so hot that I couldn't get a sight picture from barrel heat induced mirage</span>

The new barrel is running 1/4 moa or better, I have 834 rounds through it since 09 April 2012 and I have not cleaned it once yet.


<span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">2) Performance:</span></span>

My 21.8" 6.5CM ran 140's as hot as 2740fps, but my "super shooter" load was 2685fps and I didn't push it.

My 22.5" 6.5CM (current barrel) will run as hot as 2780fps but the 1/4MOA load is 2700fps and I leave it the heck alone. I run the gun hard as mentioned before and the optimal precision load runs around 51ksi instead of pushing the brass hard and burning it up.

My 24" 260 ran to 2830fps with 140 Amax, shot the best at 2750fps and I never beat on it anywhere NEAR as hard as the 6.5CM regularly gets treated.

A good friend has a 26" barrel on his 260 and it runs super groups at 2790fps with the 140 Amax and as hot as 2870fps.

<span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mag feeding</span></span>

Both feed "like buttah" from AICS mags and the Morta Mags.

If shooting a VLD or a seating depth sensitive bullet such as the Berger VLD's or JLK VLD's then I would strongly suggest the 6.5CM (or 6.5x47Lap) over the 260 because of being able to easily chase the lands from an unmodified AICS mag.

The last match I was at on Sunday involved a stage where I got 4 rounds off at a target in 15s from my BigHorn actioned rifle.

A month ago there was a stage which was NRA-seated at 300yd on a B27. 5rd/25s and All were hits in the 8ring or better. No such thing as a feeding issue with the 6.5CM in AICS magazines.

None for the 260 for that matter either.

<span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">4) Ammo/Brass:</span></span>

The 260 Rem brass isn't BAD, it's not Lapua, but it isn't all that terrible. Lapua is obviously the creme de la creme for this but you can get excellent stuff in the form of necking Win brass or buying RP brass, or busting out the mortgage and buying Lapua brass.

The 6.5CM is only factory available from Hornady. The brass quality in my experience is EXCELLENT, the only downside being punched flash holes, but that's a pretty small deal. The bitch I have about it is that it's basically unobtanium right now. Hornady needs to step up the production on the stuff, but otherwise it's affordable, consistent, and lasts for a long time. I've got some pieces that I quit counting after 20 reloads with no adverse behavior.
 
Re: 260 or 6.5 creedmoor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Moots</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 6.5 Creedmoor was designed with several great features. The case is shorter, to allow for efficient bullet seating depth in standard magazines </div></div>

But that same trait can be a hindrance when you go to select your magazine for DBM. The shorter rounds have a hard time staying in an AW mag. </div></div>

So far my creedmoor feeds great out of my AW mags but Ive only ran about 100rds thru the rifle.
 
Re: 260 or 6.5 creedmoor

Sorry to say but I'm another 6.5CM fan. A while back I read something on the CM the person stated "its so accurate its boring". Its easy to shoot, the lack of recoil means the body has no negative effect.

The down side is having only one manufacture producing brass. Case life is good, although some of us complain of having loose primer pockets. The opposite side is bullet manufactures seem to be supporting the caliber. Giving us several high BC options to chose from. As more rifle manufactures start producing rifles already barreled in 6.5CM round. Hopefully additional ammunitions companies begin producing both brass along the loaded ammunition.
 
Re: 260 or 6.5 creedmoor

I have got as low as 7 and an average of 9 standard deviation from factory out of several different rifles.
 
Re: 260 or 6.5 creedmoor

If you reload go .260, if not then go with the 6.5 Creedmoor.
 
Re: 260 or 6.5 creedmoor

Theoretically they will have the same barrel life.

Same bullet diameter
Same speed
Same rifling

equals the same wear and tear on the rifling.

However with more powder and a different case the 260 might wear the throat out faster but it would be inconsequential at best.
 
Re: 260 or 6.5 creedmoor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Moots</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 6.5 Creedmoor was designed with several great features. The case is shorter, to allow for efficient bullet seating depth in standard magazines </div></div>

But that same trait can be a hindrance when you go to select your magazine for DBM. The shorter rounds have a hard time staying in an AW mag. </div></div>

Negative. You'll have no problem with AW mags. If you're having an issue, it's probably a mag issue. </div></div>

That makes no sense.
"I'll have no problems with an AW mag, but If I'm having an issue its mag related"
Is that kind of like "60% of the time it works every time"?

I am having an issue with 6.5 Creedmoor feeding from an AW mag into my Templar S. I've had to bend the feed lips and contour the follower to get it reliable. Its just the different case design. My 260 in the same setup feeds 100% of the time and does not suffer the same hang ups. But it could also be the chassis Im using. I just dont see how identical setups feed so much differently. But this is not a issue that would make or break my decision on the caliber. I've dealt with the issue and kept going. </div></div>

Check your ejector length and the DBM inlet depth to see how much the bolt is contacting the round in the mag also. I would be inclined to think its a mag problem also but these things also add to feed issues.
To say that the 260 vs. CM feeds better than the other is proposterous at best...
 
Re: 260 or 6.5 creedmoor

The two are very similar. I can actually just drop 6.5 CM brass into a machine set up for 260 and run it with acceptable results. This is without changing the powder charge or even the seating die. Of course, the ammo we sell is loaded with the appropriate tooling.

My main concern with 6.5 CM is the brass comes from only one source, and can't easily be formed from other cases. The brass is very top quality, but expensive. I wish Hornady would have just loaded 260 instead of creating another 6.5 to deal with. Instead, they created another redundant, proprietary cartridge.

I have a feeling that if Remington gave .260 half of the support and marketing hype that Hornady has for the Creedmoor, this conversation wouldn't be happening. They don't offer any varmint, target, or tactical rifles in the caliber, don't load match ammo for it, and barely trickle out any brass. Despite this, it is one of the most popular calibers for match and practical rifle competition.
 
Re: 260 or 6.5 creedmoor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MikeSWammo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a feeling that if Remington gave .260 half of the support and marketing hype that Hornady has for the Creedmoor, this conversation wouldn't be happening. They don't offer any varmint, target, or tactical rifles in the caliber, don't load match ammo for it, and barely trickle out any brass. Despite this, it is one of the most popular calibers for match and practical rifle competition.</div></div>

Very true, I raise this point a year or so ago, with the popularity of anything Long Range right now, Remington's marketing team is missing a great opportunity.

For the OP, Lapua made up my mind for me when they started making brass for the 260. That’s what I have in a 8.4 twist and couldn’t be happier.
 
Re: 260 or 6.5 creedmoor

The brass being available from only one manufacturer is what swayed me to the 260. Didnt want to get stuck without if hornady has a supply issue. Otherwise they are essentially identical. You can get 260 or 6.5 loaded from a variety of places now so factory loads are an option either way.
 
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