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Sidearms & Scatterguns This is my idea of a fighting pistol

1

1911wrench

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Oct 26, 2009
32
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60
Boonville, Missouri
South Forks Arms, Stealth model in 9mm. My idea of a fighting pistol equipped with Nowlin threaded barrel.

There's a story behind this pistol. It starts with Jason ringing my phone one day. Jason says I want to run this by you and see what you think....

Wait, back up. I'm getting ahead of the story here. It begins with a trip to Jason's shop. I walk in and there's receivers and slides scattered across the carpet just left of front door. Receivers and slides are in government, commander and officers length. Almost 50 in total. Last one being serial number 50. I'm thinking it's Christmas only without the tree.

Kind of off center and in the middle is this one receiver. A rail model.

Just one.

So, I'm driving along on a day filled with sunshine and blue skies. Phone rings, I look down at caller ID. It's Jason. " I want to run something by you." I'm gonna build a suppressed model with the one recon frame. Just wanted to know what caliber you think I should do one in ? The rest of the day was a back and forth exchange of ideas between Jason, Jonathan and myself. Jason thought to be "Stealth" like, suppressed should sound suppressed. My thought ran along the line of 1911s are 45acp. Not exactly true because 1911s are and have been chambered in just about every modern pistol cartrage from .22lr through .460 and beyond.

So Jonathan's phone rang next for the definitive expert opinion. Jonathan says 9mm, definitely 9mm. Why would you even consider suppressing .45acp in a handgun ?? 9mm is much, much quieter. Our conversation then turns to the types he used in his 3 deployments as Army Sniper. Last deployment being outside Tikrit attached to an elite unit where he used multiple suppressed weapons.

We talked about ambi-safeties, tall sights, magwell, grip safety and finally which brand of suppressor run wet with welder tip gel.

This is the product of Jason's discussions and talent. For us die hards, Jason will make one in .45acp.

DSC_0088.jpg
 
Re: This is my idea of a fighting pistol

Now I love 1911s, but a 9mm gun that holds 9 rounds doesnt sound like a pistol I want to fight anything with besides paper.
 
Re: This is my idea of a fighting pistol

To be fair, I dont want to be fighting with a handgun at all if Ive got a M4 handy, but their are other reasons that I would personally choose another platform such as Glock over a 1911 for this application. That being said, that is a sweet ass pistol...
 
Re: This is my idea of a fighting pistol

I think I would go with the one I could handle best.
 
Re: This is my idea of a fighting pistol

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jonathan says 9mm, definitely 9mm. Why would you even consider suppressing .45acp in a handgun ?? 9mm is much, much quieter.</div></div>

Is it? I would think +- 800fps would be quieter than +- 1100fps...
 
Re: This is my idea of a fighting pistol

9mm, 147 grain Hornady TAP flies from muzzle at 975 fps.

In fact most factory 9mm, 147 grain IS subsonic.
 
Re: This is my idea of a fighting pistol

Blasphemy is a 1911 in anything other than 45 or 38 super. All kidding aside its a nice looking pistol.
 
Re: This is my idea of a fighting pistol

i have been dieing to get a 1911 in 9mm to practice with, that looks awesome. i have a rail gun, gov and commander... somethign like that might be next.
 
Re: This is my idea of a fighting pistol

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cpt. obvious</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now I love 1911s, but a 9mm gun that holds 9 rounds doesnt sound like a pistol I want to fight anything with besides paper. </div></div>

You can load some 147 grain subsonic 9mm loads that will preform nicely (rip flesh) and expand good.

Now you are correct if you have to use ball ammo. I don't want a 9mm unless I can use expanding hollow points. If it's FMJ ball ammo, give me a 45 (bigger hole).

Nice Pistol Op!!!!
 
Re: This is my idea of a fighting pistol

Nice. Very cool on the super high front sight...took me a minute to realize it was to clear the suppressor.

You know, I used to be pretty anti 9mm. Then I got one for the heck of it and it is impressive. If anyone thinks a 9mm is low on power, they need to re-evaluate. They are so disgustingly easy to double-tap (at least when you're used to major-class .45) it isn't even funny.
 
Re: This is my idea of a fighting pistol

That is super sweet! Been planing on a threaded 1911 for awhile now to go with my suppressed AR and 700.
 
Re: This is my idea of a fighting pistol

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tactical .22</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jonathan says 9mm, definitely 9mm. Why would you even consider suppressing .45acp in a handgun ?? 9mm is much, much quieter.</div></div>

Is it? I would think +- 800fps would be quieter than +- 1100fps... </div></div>

They say that 9mm subs are quieter just because the hole in the can is smaller, allow less muzzle blast and noise to escape the can.

On the other hand, I think that was an issue before....todays cans for .45's are unreal.

My 45 Osprey is mouse fart quiet with wire pulling gel in it.
 
Re: This is my idea of a fighting pistol

not bad!
 
Re: This is my idea of a fighting pistol

Thanks for the info, Lofty and Wrench. That was the velocity I could find the fastest - don't shoot much 9mm.
 
Re: This is my idea of a fighting pistol

I shoot both a 9mm and 45 suppressed. Also have both the TiRant 45 and TiRant 9mm cans available. The 9mm is not quieter than the 45. Honestly I cant tell a difference when shooting subsonic 9mm. And to add some icing on the cake, we shoot the TiRant 45 on 9mm weapons and it is just as quiet as the dedicated 9mm cans. Even thought the bore is larger, the TiRant 45 does have one extra baffle that makes up for the difference.

Anyway that is one sweet looking gun. Where did the sights come from?
 
Re: This is my idea of a fighting pistol

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mnhntr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Blasphemy is a 1911 in anything other than 45 or 38 super. All kidding aside its a nice looking pistol. </div></div>


Agreed, but I love being able to make full factor with .38 super and double tapping the swingers while others are single tapping with their lower velocity pistols, oh did I mention a flatter trajectory?

8) .45 rounds where 1 hit is all it takes vs 9) 9mm and you might have to hit your target several times..........
 
Re: This is my idea of a fighting pistol

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cvedrick</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mnhntr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Blasphemy is a 1911 in anything other than 45 or 38 super. All kidding aside its a nice looking pistol. </div></div>


Agreed, but I love being able to make full factor with .38 super and double tapping the swingers while others are single tapping with their lower velocity pistols, oh did I mention a flatter trajectory?

<span style="font-weight: bold">8) .45 rounds where 1 hit is all it takes vs 9) 9mm and you might have to hit your target several times..........</span> </div></div>

The bold part is just ignorant. If we are comparing ball rounds to ball rounds, sure the bigger the better. With today's terminal ballistic technology and bullet selection, that 45 is better than 9 is just asinine
 
Re: This is my idea of a fighting pistol

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deadly0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

The bold part is just ignorant. If we are comparing ball rounds to ball rounds, sure the bigger the better. With today's terminal ballistic technology and bullet selection, that 45 is better than 9 is just asinine </div></div>

No, you're just oblivious.

Even though 9x19 is a much deadlier caliber with heavily serrated large-mouth hollow point ammunition, is the 45 is ALSO a much dealier caliber with heavily serrated large-mouth hollow point ammunition.

45ACP FMJ > 9x19 FMJ
45ACP Golden Saber > 9x19 FMJ Golden Saber

So yes, while 9x19 is good enough for countless people, bigger is better, when isolating bullet type.
 
Re: This is my idea of a fighting pistol

Nice pistol, I do love the look of 1911's. but I rather get something like a glock as my first handgun because they are cheap and have tons of aftermarket items.

But as for this gun being 9mm and having 9 rounds that doesn't bother me, because when it comes done to it accuracy is the most important factor. After doesn't matter how many rounds you fire or how big they are, what matters is what they hit.
 
Re: This is my idea of a fighting pistol

Shoot both 9mm and 45 ACP out of my Osprey 45 can. My vote is that the 45 is quieter. Much less snap to the round. I do think the 9mm 1911 would be hella fun for practice though. Damn fine looking pistol.
 
Re: This is my idea of a fighting pistol

well remember the snap is one part of the sound, so it could be quite but at the same time last longer thus be easier to notice. Which is something a lot of people forget about.
 
Re: This is my idea of a fighting pistol

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KSwift</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deadly0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

The bold part is just ignorant. If we are comparing ball rounds to ball rounds, sure the bigger the better. With today's terminal ballistic technology and bullet selection, that 45 is better than 9 is just asinine </div></div>

No, you're just oblivious.

Even though 9x19 is a much deadlier caliber with heavily serrated large-mouth hollow point ammunition, is the 45 is ALSO a much dealier caliber with heavily serrated large-mouth hollow point ammunition.

45ACP FMJ > 9x19 FMJ
45ACP Golden Saber > 9x19 FMJ Golden Saber

So yes, while 9x19 is good enough for countless people, bigger is better, when isolating bullet type. </div></div>

So I am oblivious that his comment which I bolded "It only takes 1 45 ACP round where the 9mm takes....? When did the 45 ACP turn into the one shot wonder? That whole 45 is better stuff started because of the military ball round and what ammo could and couldn't be carried in wartime.

And since we are talking about a fighting pistol, lets see.....I'll take a 9mm with quite a few more rounds than a 45 with 7 or 8 rounders all day.
 
Re: This is my idea of a fighting pistol

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KSwift</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
So yes, while 9x19 is good enough for countless people, bigger is better, when isolating bullet type. </div></div>

All else equal, bigger might be better, but "all else equal" is not an acceptable assumption when it comes to handguns.

.45 over 9mm gives up 20+% of the gun's capacity, and offers more recoil and slower followup shots in return for basically no increase in ballistic performance.

I would not trust my life to a 9mm 1911 with the .45-length action, but not because of ballistic performance--reliability is a serious issue and cannot be solved without shortening the action (a-la Springfield EMP).

An ideal 1911 in 9mm would be available in every size from 3-5" barrels, have the EMP-length action, and be available with a steel or alloy frame depending on length. All of them should be offered with fixed sights, choices of ambi safeties, front strap checkering and some sort of magwell, with it being welded on and the grip shortened for officer-length grip guns.

A full size 1911 in 9mm will never be sufficiently reliable for me to trust it. That's not to say that they're not a joy to shoot--I absolutely love mine and I prefer 9mm over any other handgun cartridge even though I load and shoot all of them for various types of competition.
 
Re: This is my idea of a fighting pistol

Nice rig. There is another benefit in running a 9mm in a heavier frame. If you buy the right can, you can stand the Neilson on its "ears" and the can will not cycle. If you need it, you can get single shot, subsonic with far less action noise. With a quick twist you would be back to semi again. It requires a slide with more mass than most 9mms have today.

I see just as many rough cycling .45s in that frame as 9mm. It all takes work to bring it together with suppression.

9mm are quieter because large diameter rounds make it harder to redirect the chase jet from directly behind the bullet. Stripping off gas gets tougher twords the center of the chase jet. That is why a properly sized 9mm can will always outperform an overbore can. If your .45 can is outperforming your 9mm can on your 9mm, get a better 9mm can. And that 9mm is quiter when properly suppressed.

Good luck with it.



 
Re: This is my idea of a fighting pistol

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

All else equal, bigger might be better, but "all else equal" is not an acceptable assumption when it comes to handguns.

.45 over 9mm gives up 20+% of the gun's capacity, and offers more recoil and slower followup shots in return for basically no increase in ballistic performance. </div></div>

You two dumb shits, this wasn't a discussion of the entire handgun, its a discussion of terminal ballistics.

The fact is, 45ACP outperforms 9x19 in ballistics. Completely independant of the handgun design itself. If you think that 45 has "basically no increase" in ballistic performance, then you are just as stupid and oblivious. Go read up on some actual numbers and tests, and then come back.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The bold part is just ignorant. If we are comparing ball rounds to ball rounds, sure the bigger the better. With today's terminal ballistic technology and bullet selection, that 45 is better than 9 is just asinine</div></div>

^ This is the incorrect statement I was challenging. Nothing in there about round capacity or reliability.
 
Re: This is my idea of a fighting pistol

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KSwift</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
You two dumb shits, this wasn't a discussion of the entire handgun, its a discussion of terminal ballistics.

The fact is, 45ACP outperforms 9x19 in ballistics. Completely independant of the handgun design itself. If you think that 45 has "basically no increase" in ballistic performance, then you are just as stupid and oblivious. Go read up on some actual numbers and tests, and then come back.
</div></div>

If you're so sure that you're right, you'd present the evidence yourself. And if you actually investigated it, you'd realize that among handgun calibers, there is basically no significant difference in terminal ballistics between 9mm and .45 ACP, and certainly not a significant enough difference to make up a 20% difference in magazine capacity.

Just so you know, saying that someone else is wrong and insulting them personally is not argument. Presenting facts and evidence that support your position is.
 
Re: This is my idea of a fighting pistol

KSwift, your reading skills are fundamentally flawed. If your dumbass goes back and reads what I wrote and what I highlighted, you would see my arguing point was that the post I quoted said the 45 was a one hitter quitter.

Any real world experience with the 45 or 9mm stopping anything or are you just looking at "tests"

And if I am not mistaken, this is a discussion about the WHOLE pistol as the title is "This is my idea of a fighting PISTOL" but I guess I am the dumb shit.

Need some help interpreting this????

http://www.angelfire.com/art/enchanter/terminal.html
http://www.firearmstactical.com/ammo_data/9mm.htm
http://www.firearmstactical.com/ammo_data/45acp.htm

Summarizing, the 45 is not leaps and bounds better than the 9mm, and when people jump to name calling, they normally don't have much of an argument. So if you would post some credible tests for us, I'd be happy to read.
 
Re: This is my idea of a fighting pistol

Wow THAT debate again....

That is a damn fine pistol. Should be lots of fun. In the 1911 i prefer 45acp. That is MY preference. Especially considering that my can is 45 and it's tits on a 1911.This is my ideal fighting pistol though...
20120521_194144.jpg
 
Re: This is my idea of a fighting pistol

Great looking 1911! I don't care what caliber or platform I carry, or what caliber or platform others carry. just train with what you have and be proficient with it. be safe have fun enjoy shooting it.
 
Re: This is my idea of a fighting pistol

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KSwift</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

You two dumb shits, this wasn't a discussion of the entire handgun, its a discussion of terminal ballistics </div></div>

Actually, it was a guy showing a pistol he had built but that didn't dissuade some folks from devolving into schoolyard games...
 
Re: This is my idea of a fighting pistol

OP, there seems to be some dissension here regarding your caliber choice. If that's too much for you, I'll do you a favor and take that beaut...er, firearm off your hands.
 
Re: This is my idea of a fighting pistol

Kids...ruined this post. Nice sidearm OP.
 
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