looking for a BSA mil mil scope with side focus thats closest to a u.s. optics mil mil to be used as a trainer on a 40x 22lr ideas?
Rifle Scopes closest BSA mil mil scope to a u.s..optics?
- Thread starter donniedee
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Re: closest BSA mil mil scope to a u.s..optics?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: donniedee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">looking for a BSA mil mil scope with side focus thats closest to a u.s. optics mil mil to be used as a trainer on a 40x 22lr ideas? </div></div>
I have to wonder why youre looking at that BSA junk?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: donniedee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">looking for a BSA mil mil scope with side focus thats closest to a u.s. optics mil mil to be used as a trainer on a 40x 22lr ideas? </div></div>
I have to wonder why youre looking at that BSA junk?
Re: closest BSA mil mil scope to a u.s..optics?
well can not afford to eqiup BOTH my rem 40x AND 700p 308 with U.S. optics anything in the 500.00 range then?mil mil with side focus?
well can not afford to eqiup BOTH my rem 40x AND 700p 308 with U.S. optics anything in the 500.00 range then?mil mil with side focus?
Re: closest BSA mil mil scope to a u.s..optics?
im like everyone else there is no way bsa is capable of providing any training value on a uso what so ever.
if you can bump your budget from 500-600 and do away with the side focus you could go with the 2.5-10 pst mil/mil.
im like everyone else there is no way bsa is capable of providing any training value on a uso what so ever.
if you can bump your budget from 500-600 and do away with the side focus you could go with the 2.5-10 pst mil/mil.
Re: closest BSA mil mil scope to a u.s..optics?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: donniedee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">looking for a BSA mil mil scope with side focus thats closest to a u.s. optics mil mil to be used as a trainer on a 40x 22lr ideas? </div></div>
I've got one of these: http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/default.aspx?productnumber=456482
It's mil/mil, FFP with an etched reticle, and has side focus. It's no USO, but it has generally positive reviews (e.g. here, here, here) on this site, and is perpetually on sale for $250 at Midway (it's a Midway exclusive). From all appearance it looks to be a Falcon Menace 4-14 with different knobs.
Mine is mounted on my Tacticool-ed Savage MkII and I've been completely satisfied with it, for what it is.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: donniedee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">looking for a BSA mil mil scope with side focus thats closest to a u.s. optics mil mil to be used as a trainer on a 40x 22lr ideas? </div></div>
I've got one of these: http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/default.aspx?productnumber=456482
It's mil/mil, FFP with an etched reticle, and has side focus. It's no USO, but it has generally positive reviews (e.g. here, here, here) on this site, and is perpetually on sale for $250 at Midway (it's a Midway exclusive). From all appearance it looks to be a Falcon Menace 4-14 with different knobs.
Mine is mounted on my Tacticool-ed Savage MkII and I've been completely satisfied with it, for what it is.
Re: closest BSA mil mil scope to a u.s..optics?
what power range are you looking for?
for $250ish, there's the Bushnell 3200 10x mil/mil from Midway...
for $300ish, the SWFA SS 10x has a Mil/Mil out now...$400 w/ side paralax, Weaver has a 3-10x, and a few others, at about the same price point.
and that's just what I can think of off the top of my head
what power range are you looking for?
for $250ish, there's the Bushnell 3200 10x mil/mil from Midway...
for $300ish, the SWFA SS 10x has a Mil/Mil out now...$400 w/ side paralax, Weaver has a 3-10x, and a few others, at about the same price point.
and that's just what I can think of off the top of my head
Re: closest BSA mil mil scope to a u.s..optics?
my buddy has the 10x SS and its mil/mil and works perfect i think paid 399 because it has side focus
my buddy has the 10x SS and its mil/mil and works perfect i think paid 399 because it has side focus
Re: closest BSA mil mil scope to a u.s..optics?
Allow me to put this into perspective for you:
Let's say you want to learn to drive race cars, do you think practicing in a 1977 GMC pacer is going to help you learn how to drive a 2012 Burgatti Veyron?
That's it for today, children; no go out and play
Allow me to put this into perspective for you:
Let's say you want to learn to drive race cars, do you think practicing in a 1977 GMC pacer is going to help you learn how to drive a 2012 Burgatti Veyron?
That's it for today, children; no go out and play
Re: closest BSA mil mil scope to a u.s..optics?
I bought one and like it much more than my SS 20x or Bushnell 3200. And it's clearer and sharper than my friends much more expensive Leupold. I liked it so much on my .308 that I put one on my Nemesis 6.5cm and another on a .308 Saiga. I believe these scopes don't get a fair chance because they are labeled BSA, but these "midway bsa" scopes are different.
I bought one and like it much more than my SS 20x or Bushnell 3200. And it's clearer and sharper than my friends much more expensive Leupold. I liked it so much on my .308 that I put one on my Nemesis 6.5cm and another on a .308 Saiga. I believe these scopes don't get a fair chance because they are labeled BSA, but these "midway bsa" scopes are different.
Re: closest BSA mil mil scope to a u.s..optics?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dkh</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I bought one and like it much more than my SS 20x or Bushnell 3200. And it's clearer and sharper than my friends much more expensive Leupold. I liked it so much on my .308 that I put one on my Nemesis 6.5cm and another on a .308 Saiga. I believe these scopes don't get a fair chance because they are labeled BSA, but these "midway bsa" scopes are different.
</div></div>
How is tracking? Durability? Is the reticle perfectly subtensioned? Adjustments follow the reticle? There's more to scopes than clarity.
To OP: If you can afford to wait, check out the Vortex Viper HS 5-15x44 on Midway. It's backordered, but a great scope. Mil/mil, sidefocus, SFP. Otherwise, I would get the SS 10x with sidefocus.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dkh</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I bought one and like it much more than my SS 20x or Bushnell 3200. And it's clearer and sharper than my friends much more expensive Leupold. I liked it so much on my .308 that I put one on my Nemesis 6.5cm and another on a .308 Saiga. I believe these scopes don't get a fair chance because they are labeled BSA, but these "midway bsa" scopes are different.
</div></div>
How is tracking? Durability? Is the reticle perfectly subtensioned? Adjustments follow the reticle? There's more to scopes than clarity.
To OP: If you can afford to wait, check out the Vortex Viper HS 5-15x44 on Midway. It's backordered, but a great scope. Mil/mil, sidefocus, SFP. Otherwise, I would get the SS 10x with sidefocus.
Re: closest BSA mil mil scope to a u.s..optics?
Tracking and reticle seems accurate. Durability seems to be "meh". I was putting my 22 back in the gun cabinet and it slid a distance of about 5 inches and the scope hit against the inner wall and dented the objective bell rim despite having the rubber bikini cover on.
Tracking and reticle seems accurate. Durability seems to be "meh". I was putting my 22 back in the gun cabinet and it slid a distance of about 5 inches and the scope hit against the inner wall and dented the objective bell rim despite having the rubber bikini cover on.
Re: closest BSA mil mil scope to a u.s..optics?
For shooting a 22 (at the closer ranges) I'd get something w/ adjustable parallax. I have the 3200 mil/mil from bushnell, had the viper pst 2.5-10, but was never satisfied mainly because of the fixed parallax. I finally put a falcon 4-16 ffp mil/mil on it for 300 bucks or so and haven't been happier with it.
That being said... I had the falcon as a backup and I'm not saying it's better than the vortex pst, just for this application the menace fit the bill a little better. I have heard good things about the weaver scopes but have not tried them out.
FWIW, I shoot the 22lr from 25yds to 300+ yards.
For shooting a 22 (at the closer ranges) I'd get something w/ adjustable parallax. I have the 3200 mil/mil from bushnell, had the viper pst 2.5-10, but was never satisfied mainly because of the fixed parallax. I finally put a falcon 4-16 ffp mil/mil on it for 300 bucks or so and haven't been happier with it.
That being said... I had the falcon as a backup and I'm not saying it's better than the vortex pst, just for this application the menace fit the bill a little better. I have heard good things about the weaver scopes but have not tried them out.
FWIW, I shoot the 22lr from 25yds to 300+ yards.
Re: closest BSA mil mil scope to a u.s..optics?
vortex viper. ive looked through them and there nice for the money
vortex viper. ive looked through them and there nice for the money
Re: closest BSA mil mil scope to a u.s..optics?
get some quick detach rings and swap the scope between the two rifles, after a few swaps you'll be a pro at rezeroing.
get some quick detach rings and swap the scope between the two rifles, after a few swaps you'll be a pro at rezeroing.
Re: closest BSA mil mil scope to a u.s..optics?
To the OP, the UN-asked Genius Question:
For what purpose(s) on your .22 trainer?
If to merely dial the same mil-clicks to chase bullet impacts/wind and elevation zeros, then just about any of the choices listed will do.
If to as closely as possible duplicate the shooter's *operation* of the scope, then continue to question, and all useful replies above need to be updated. Same reticle? Direction of "UP" on the dial? Direction of "Right" on the windage knob? Location and direction of the SF knob? Direction of turn of the power ring? Anything else like an illumination function?
Don't rag on the OP for not having the discretionary coin to put the exact same spendy optic on both rifles. Valid, iffy or stupid, he has his reasons for his priorities this year. We work with what we have, don't like it then lump it and return to the helpful ethos of the Gunny Community.
My personal experiences with the WOTAC SFP 2nd-gen was not good. One came unscrewed at both ends, and the replacement lost any elevation 12 clicks from the bottom and its reticle rotated about 20 degrees. Until the batch that had 7-8 with that problem, their return rate had been 1%. The 4th gens and up are better and more durable. I now have an FFP model. It's going strong.
In between, I got more than a year out of the Falcon Menace...but...Took that mainly b/c I was sick of waiting for a replacement, and to try the FFP variation.
I can tell you first-hand that the Falcon Menace FFP 4-14xsmallerobjective has a GREAT reticle, far better IMO than the traditional 5 mils down from the crosshair obsolete approach. But my little old M1A killed it with probably less than 1,000 rounds. And I'm not falling down hills or butt-stroking hostiles with mine, either. Reticle subtension and tracking were perfectly accurate to either perfect or maybe not more than .05 mil (half a click) over a 10-mil span, checked both optically and by shooting. But the sidefocus started drifting to where I had to put it on infinity to see clearly at 200, then it drifted drastically some more to where I had to CRANK the ocular and suffer horrible parallax to get a clear image. Matt Wonders' attempts at customer service were perfectly honorable but wait times between shipments were approaching two months and I wanted to shoot. Bottom line for me: Falcons are probably nice for .22s but I won't put one on a .308. Unlike the WOTAC line, I just have not heard of any attempts to improve the Falcon product. Wonders is at Falcon's mercy there, and I believe they have come close to screwing him over with the occasional bad and not-durable product.
Wonders, on the other hand, is always tweaking his products in his WOTAC line, and has been aggressively testing the latest models with some severe recoil simulations. His glass is now a bit better than Falcon's too.
So, look to your purpose and buy accordingly. I hope that for you, you never have to use anyone's excellent customer service...
To the OP, the UN-asked Genius Question:
For what purpose(s) on your .22 trainer?
If to merely dial the same mil-clicks to chase bullet impacts/wind and elevation zeros, then just about any of the choices listed will do.
If to as closely as possible duplicate the shooter's *operation* of the scope, then continue to question, and all useful replies above need to be updated. Same reticle? Direction of "UP" on the dial? Direction of "Right" on the windage knob? Location and direction of the SF knob? Direction of turn of the power ring? Anything else like an illumination function?
Don't rag on the OP for not having the discretionary coin to put the exact same spendy optic on both rifles. Valid, iffy or stupid, he has his reasons for his priorities this year. We work with what we have, don't like it then lump it and return to the helpful ethos of the Gunny Community.
My personal experiences with the WOTAC SFP 2nd-gen was not good. One came unscrewed at both ends, and the replacement lost any elevation 12 clicks from the bottom and its reticle rotated about 20 degrees. Until the batch that had 7-8 with that problem, their return rate had been 1%. The 4th gens and up are better and more durable. I now have an FFP model. It's going strong.
In between, I got more than a year out of the Falcon Menace...but...Took that mainly b/c I was sick of waiting for a replacement, and to try the FFP variation.
I can tell you first-hand that the Falcon Menace FFP 4-14xsmallerobjective has a GREAT reticle, far better IMO than the traditional 5 mils down from the crosshair obsolete approach. But my little old M1A killed it with probably less than 1,000 rounds. And I'm not falling down hills or butt-stroking hostiles with mine, either. Reticle subtension and tracking were perfectly accurate to either perfect or maybe not more than .05 mil (half a click) over a 10-mil span, checked both optically and by shooting. But the sidefocus started drifting to where I had to put it on infinity to see clearly at 200, then it drifted drastically some more to where I had to CRANK the ocular and suffer horrible parallax to get a clear image. Matt Wonders' attempts at customer service were perfectly honorable but wait times between shipments were approaching two months and I wanted to shoot. Bottom line for me: Falcons are probably nice for .22s but I won't put one on a .308. Unlike the WOTAC line, I just have not heard of any attempts to improve the Falcon product. Wonders is at Falcon's mercy there, and I believe they have come close to screwing him over with the occasional bad and not-durable product.
Wonders, on the other hand, is always tweaking his products in his WOTAC line, and has been aggressively testing the latest models with some severe recoil simulations. His glass is now a bit better than Falcon's too.
So, look to your purpose and buy accordingly. I hope that for you, you never have to use anyone's excellent customer service...
Re: closest BSA mil mil scope to a u.s..optics?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ivan R</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Allow me to put this into perspective for you:
Let's say you want to learn to drive race cars, do you think practicing in a 1977 GMC pacer is going to help you learn how to drive a 2012 Burgatti Veyron?
That's it for today, children; no go out and play
</div></div>
If you were really an 'educator' you would probably know that "GMC" never made the Pacer, AMC did! Now go out and play with the other kids!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ivan R</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Allow me to put this into perspective for you:
Let's say you want to learn to drive race cars, do you think practicing in a 1977 GMC pacer is going to help you learn how to drive a 2012 Burgatti Veyron?
That's it for today, children; no go out and play
If you were really an 'educator' you would probably know that "GMC" never made the Pacer, AMC did! Now go out and play with the other kids!
Re: closest BSA mil mil scope to a u.s..optics?
While they're nowhere close to a US Optic, I'd look into the Nikon M-223 scopes. They have solid adjustable turrets, variable power (3-9 or 4-16 on the M-308), and parallax adjustment for under 500 bucks if I remember correctly.
Edit: Well I feel dumb for just noticing the "mil mil" part of your title. These scopes are in moa. I would refer you to Vortex Vipers as great value and excellent scopes, even though they may be a little above what you wanted to pay for a .22 trainer setup.
While they're nowhere close to a US Optic, I'd look into the Nikon M-223 scopes. They have solid adjustable turrets, variable power (3-9 or 4-16 on the M-308), and parallax adjustment for under 500 bucks if I remember correctly.
Edit: Well I feel dumb for just noticing the "mil mil" part of your title. These scopes are in moa. I would refer you to Vortex Vipers as great value and excellent scopes, even though they may be a little above what you wanted to pay for a .22 trainer setup.
