I spent $29 on the highest level of Bullet Flight....quite frankly I'm not one bit impressed. The program pretty much sucks. What is so good about it that clearly I'm missing, I mean for $29 it out to be pretty damn good.....
Range Report What's so great about Bullet Flight
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Re: What's so great about Bullet Flight
I really like bullet flight. I have the same program, $29 for iPhone. It gives me accurate drop data to 2000yds (furthers I've used it so far). Windage info has been accurate for me as well...
Bottom line, with correct conditions input, both windage and elevation are accurate to within 1 click, or .1mil including spin drift past 1 mile.
What's not to be impressed with for $29? I happen to think it works well for what it is. Just my opinion.
I really like bullet flight. I have the same program, $29 for iPhone. It gives me accurate drop data to 2000yds (furthers I've used it so far). Windage info has been accurate for me as well...
Bottom line, with correct conditions input, both windage and elevation are accurate to within 1 click, or .1mil including spin drift past 1 mile.
What's not to be impressed with for $29? I happen to think it works well for what it is. Just my opinion.
Re: What's so great about Bullet Flight
As far as iPhone apps go, its pretty good.
Honestly, its a ballistic program for $30, in most cases you can't buy a single box of match 308 for that price.
It's accurate and fast, which for the iPhone is about all you really need.
As far as iPhone apps go, its pretty good.
Honestly, its a ballistic program for $30, in most cases you can't buy a single box of match 308 for that price.
It's accurate and fast, which for the iPhone is about all you really need.
Re: What's so great about Bullet Flight
I have Shooter and Shrelock as well and both of them are better in my opinion.....I'm just not seeing what was worth $29 in comparison to others.
I have Shooter and Shrelock as well and both of them are better in my opinion.....I'm just not seeing what was worth $29 in comparison to others.
Re: What's so great about Bullet Flight
It's KAC and it was out well before either of the programs you referenced. Beat them by several years when the field was much smaller.
It's KAC and it was out well before either of the programs you referenced. Beat them by several years when the field was much smaller.
Re: What's so great about Bullet Flight
The primary attribute of the iPhone/Android ballistic apps is they are cheap. So far as I can tell from using them, if that's all you are willing to spend, you don't actually need it at all. Spend the money on a box of ammo and shoot instead. A dope card does everything you need to do. JBM online can produce fine dope sheets for free.
If you actually NEED a field ballistic program, the amount you'll spend for a good complete system is trivial compared to its utility. When you need to spend 8K+ for a rifle, 3K+ on the scope and mount, 8K on a PLRF10C and $5 a shot for ammo, then replace bbls ever 1500 rounds or so, the 2K you spend on the computer system to support it is no big deal.
The primary attribute of the iPhone/Android ballistic apps is they are cheap. So far as I can tell from using them, if that's all you are willing to spend, you don't actually need it at all. Spend the money on a box of ammo and shoot instead. A dope card does everything you need to do. JBM online can produce fine dope sheets for free.
If you actually NEED a field ballistic program, the amount you'll spend for a good complete system is trivial compared to its utility. When you need to spend 8K+ for a rifle, 3K+ on the scope and mount, 8K on a PLRF10C and $5 a shot for ammo, then replace bbls ever 1500 rounds or so, the 2K you spend on the computer system to support it is no big deal.
Re: What's so great about Bullet Flight
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CoryT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The primary attribute of the iPhone/Android ballistic apps is they are cheap. So far as I can tell from using them, if that's all you are willing to spend, you don't actually need it at all. Spend the money on a box of ammo and shoot instead. A dope card does everything you need to do. JBM online can produce fine dope sheets for free.
If you actually NEED a field ballistic program, the amount you'll spend for a good complete system is trivial compared to its utility. When you need to spend 8K+ for a rifle, 3K+ on the scope and mount, 8K on a PLRF10C and $5 a shot for ammo, then replace bbls ever 1500 rounds or so, the 2K you spend on the computer system to support it is no big deal. </div></div>Exactly. I wish I had written that.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CoryT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The primary attribute of the iPhone/Android ballistic apps is they are cheap. So far as I can tell from using them, if that's all you are willing to spend, you don't actually need it at all. Spend the money on a box of ammo and shoot instead. A dope card does everything you need to do. JBM online can produce fine dope sheets for free.
If you actually NEED a field ballistic program, the amount you'll spend for a good complete system is trivial compared to its utility. When you need to spend 8K+ for a rifle, 3K+ on the scope and mount, 8K on a PLRF10C and $5 a shot for ammo, then replace bbls ever 1500 rounds or so, the 2K you spend on the computer system to support it is no big deal. </div></div>Exactly. I wish I had written that.
Re: What's so great about Bullet Flight
I love how when I started this precision shooting stuff (not THAT long ago) nobody really blinked at paying $100+ (before buying a dedicated PDA) for a portable ballistics app... and now $30 bothers people enough that they feel the need to start a thread about it.
You see, original poster, people can sell phone apps for $1 because they have an ENORMOUS potential audience (and/or because they can plaster ads in said app and get ad revenue from the millions of eyes on the ads). If only a tinsy tiny percentage of said potential audience were to buy an app, they still make enough money to justify the labor required to make it.
The thing is, the "precision marksmanship" crowd is an incredibly niche audience compared to say the "smart phone game playing" crowd... so the economics are a bit different than your ordinary smart phone game. Quality takes manhours and expertise, both of which have economic value.
I am personally more than happy about the 10x-30x the "normal app" price I've paid for the Android ballistic apps that I use, because they are still ~10x cheaper then what I had to pay just a few years ago for an app with the same functionality (but on a better device with a more usable interface).
I think 'Applied Ballistics' has an interesting model with the purchasable addons. I'm more than happy to pay extra for professionally derived custom drag curves for the bullet(s) I use, for example -- especially if it helps fund further R&D of the app.
I love how when I started this precision shooting stuff (not THAT long ago) nobody really blinked at paying $100+ (before buying a dedicated PDA) for a portable ballistics app... and now $30 bothers people enough that they feel the need to start a thread about it.
You see, original poster, people can sell phone apps for $1 because they have an ENORMOUS potential audience (and/or because they can plaster ads in said app and get ad revenue from the millions of eyes on the ads). If only a tinsy tiny percentage of said potential audience were to buy an app, they still make enough money to justify the labor required to make it.
The thing is, the "precision marksmanship" crowd is an incredibly niche audience compared to say the "smart phone game playing" crowd... so the economics are a bit different than your ordinary smart phone game. Quality takes manhours and expertise, both of which have economic value.
I am personally more than happy about the 10x-30x the "normal app" price I've paid for the Android ballistic apps that I use, because they are still ~10x cheaper then what I had to pay just a few years ago for an app with the same functionality (but on a better device with a more usable interface).
I think 'Applied Ballistics' has an interesting model with the purchasable addons. I'm more than happy to pay extra for professionally derived custom drag curves for the bullet(s) I use, for example -- especially if it helps fund further R&D of the app.
Re: What's so great about Bullet Flight
As was stated before, the market for these programs is not as diverse as for games, and so you will experience a difference in price. Those that enjoy ballistic apps are more than willing to pay for a good program and when you look at how expensive things used to be it's a pretty reasonable price.
As was stated before, the market for these programs is not as diverse as for games, and so you will experience a difference in price. Those that enjoy ballistic apps are more than willing to pay for a good program and when you look at how expensive things used to be it's a pretty reasonable price.
Re: What's so great about Bullet Flight
I bought the version that was $11 or $12 and I am not impressed at all either. Strelok works just as well, does the same stuff, plus gives me a reticle depiction and it is free
I bought the version that was $11 or $12 and I am not impressed at all either. Strelok works just as well, does the same stuff, plus gives me a reticle depiction and it is free
Re: What's so great about Bullet Flight
If you put accurate information IN, you get accurate information OUT; simple.
It's not glitz and glamour, but it will provide a great starting point for fine-tuning range dope with a given load once the variables are worked out.
If you start with a box of store-bought ammo and no chronograph, and you don't know how to reverse-engineer your fps, you will not like the initial outcome. However, once you realize its potential and learn to trust the dope SUGGESTION that it provides, you'll be more happy with it.
What I've found, for instance that it is important that your zero be precise to the yard and 1/8 of an inch. Let's say you have a great group but it's a little high in the pasty at 100; you don't really have a 100-yard zero. You have one farther out. Therefore it's output will always be off by a tenth-mil or so because you told the program that you have a 100-yard zero.
If you set Corialis but don't give it a heading, it has nothing to work with. (beyond 1K, of course)
Learn BulletFlight and you will be thrilled with your first-round hits. Then fine-tune a data card for each range (yardage or meters) you will shoot.
If you put accurate information IN, you get accurate information OUT; simple.
It's not glitz and glamour, but it will provide a great starting point for fine-tuning range dope with a given load once the variables are worked out.
If you start with a box of store-bought ammo and no chronograph, and you don't know how to reverse-engineer your fps, you will not like the initial outcome. However, once you realize its potential and learn to trust the dope SUGGESTION that it provides, you'll be more happy with it.
What I've found, for instance that it is important that your zero be precise to the yard and 1/8 of an inch. Let's say you have a great group but it's a little high in the pasty at 100; you don't really have a 100-yard zero. You have one farther out. Therefore it's output will always be off by a tenth-mil or so because you told the program that you have a 100-yard zero.
If you set Corialis but don't give it a heading, it has nothing to work with. (beyond 1K, of course)
Learn BulletFlight and you will be thrilled with your first-round hits. Then fine-tune a data card for each range (yardage or meters) you will shoot.
Re: What's so great about Bullet Flight
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Enough Said</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What I've found, for instance that it is important that your zero be precise to the yard and 1/8 of an inch.</div></div>I see what you are getting at: Of course, if the rifle is not zeroed then its zero is off.
But is the zero of a .308 at 96 yards the same as its zero at 106 yards?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Enough Said</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What I've found, for instance that it is important that your zero be precise to the yard and 1/8 of an inch.</div></div>I see what you are getting at: Of course, if the rifle is not zeroed then its zero is off.
But is the zero of a .308 at 96 yards the same as its zero at 106 yards?
Re: What's so great about Bullet Flight
If anyone figures out how to get a zero to under 1/8 of an inch with 1/4 MOA or .1mil adjustments and a rifle/shooter combo that's probably only good for 1 MOA anyway, lets hear it, I like a good laugh.
If anyone figures out how to get a zero to under 1/8 of an inch with 1/4 MOA or .1mil adjustments and a rifle/shooter combo that's probably only good for 1 MOA anyway, lets hear it, I like a good laugh.
Re: What's so great about Bullet Flight
There are some scenarios where a literal zero is not possible. For example I remember shooting just a little to the left of a pinwheel X so I took a 1/4 minute click right. Subsequent shoots were just a little right of a pinwheel X. After 20 rounds clicking back and forth the X was just hanging on by a thread. Another example was my first experience with a BORS. After zeroing for 100 yards I attempted to adjust sight for 300 yards. I clicked 18 clicks which indicated I was zeroed for 297 yards. One more click and the BORS indicated I was zeroed for 315 yards. Just for grins and giggles I set out a target at exactly 315 yards and I shot a five shot group. All bullet holes were close to or right on the horizontal center line of the target. At any rate, its clear, depending on the sights adjustment increments, a literal zero for any particular distance may not be possible. Adjusting the powder charge may help a shooter get a load which may zero at a particular distance. I've experimented with that with mixed results.
There are some scenarios where a literal zero is not possible. For example I remember shooting just a little to the left of a pinwheel X so I took a 1/4 minute click right. Subsequent shoots were just a little right of a pinwheel X. After 20 rounds clicking back and forth the X was just hanging on by a thread. Another example was my first experience with a BORS. After zeroing for 100 yards I attempted to adjust sight for 300 yards. I clicked 18 clicks which indicated I was zeroed for 297 yards. One more click and the BORS indicated I was zeroed for 315 yards. Just for grins and giggles I set out a target at exactly 315 yards and I shot a five shot group. All bullet holes were close to or right on the horizontal center line of the target. At any rate, its clear, depending on the sights adjustment increments, a literal zero for any particular distance may not be possible. Adjusting the powder charge may help a shooter get a load which may zero at a particular distance. I've experimented with that with mixed results.
Re: What's so great about Bullet Flight
Don't know about bullet flight, but Strelok has a field to enter your exact zero range.
If you find, at 100 yards, you can't get dead nuts, just move the target a little closer or farther until you can get dead nuts - then enter your true zero range.
Probably 100% unnecessary though.
Don't know about bullet flight, but Strelok has a field to enter your exact zero range.
If you find, at 100 yards, you can't get dead nuts, just move the target a little closer or farther until you can get dead nuts - then enter your true zero range.
Probably 100% unnecessary though.
Re: What's so great about Bullet Flight
I'm liking Strelok. I don't need it, but it's as dead-on as computer dope can be.
My point was that there is no zero change on a .308 between 98 and 106 yards so, and with all due repect to Lowlight's Gunny, you can't really get a zero to 1/8 inch or one yard.
My problem is more along the lines of my own zero change during a three-day course. My zero changes after two days and two hundred rounds because of what I am doing behind the rifle. And there's no accounting for that in the software because, like Cory said, that's a hardware issue.
I'm liking Strelok. I don't need it, but it's as dead-on as computer dope can be.
My point was that there is no zero change on a .308 between 98 and 106 yards so, and with all due repect to Lowlight's Gunny, you can't really get a zero to 1/8 inch or one yard.
My problem is more along the lines of my own zero change during a three-day course. My zero changes after two days and two hundred rounds because of what I am doing behind the rifle. And there's no accounting for that in the software because, like Cory said, that's a hardware issue.
Re: What's so great about Bullet Flight
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CoryT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If anyone figures out how to get a zero to under 1/8 of an inch with 1/4 MOA or .1mil adjustments and a rifle/shooter combo that's probably only good for 1 MOA anyway, lets hear it, I like a good laugh. </div></div>
Inner turret on a Vortex Razor, before setting Zero Stop, will allow even a 1/16th correction. Not that the group will be that small, now... LOL
My point was simply to make the point that the shooter should squeeze ALL of the accuracy out of the shooting platform at zero range before demanding that it shoot well at extended ranges.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CoryT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If anyone figures out how to get a zero to under 1/8 of an inch with 1/4 MOA or .1mil adjustments and a rifle/shooter combo that's probably only good for 1 MOA anyway, lets hear it, I like a good laugh. </div></div>
Inner turret on a Vortex Razor, before setting Zero Stop, will allow even a 1/16th correction. Not that the group will be that small, now... LOL
My point was simply to make the point that the shooter should squeeze ALL of the accuracy out of the shooting platform at zero range before demanding that it shoot well at extended ranges.
Re: What's so great about Bullet Flight
This screen in shooter will put a 100% zero on my rifle every time.
This screen in shooter will put a 100% zero on my rifle every time.
Re: What's so great about Bullet Flight
I actually like to rezero at 300 or 400, 10 round group, zero the knob to the correct setting then go back to 100. If I'm off elevation at 100 < 1 click value with another 10 shot group, the system is as well zeroed as it's ever going to get and the software, once correctly calibrated, should track within your ability to hold.
At 300-400, any small error in MV (+/-30 fps) or BC (+/- .010) really won't change the correct solution, but click values on the scope are large enough to permit getting the group properly centered to inside 1 click in value, if it shoots anyway.
A 1.6" group of 10 shots at 300, with .1 mil adjustments should be within .5" of perfectly centered, or under 1/4 MOA of error. That's eaiser to see and measure than a 10 shot 100 yard group of .7" and try to get to 1/8". Probably personal preferance, but if the group is more than just one hole, triangulation of true center is going to be more accurate than looking at 10 shots making one hole, where 2 of those shots mark the outside edges.
I actually like to rezero at 300 or 400, 10 round group, zero the knob to the correct setting then go back to 100. If I'm off elevation at 100 < 1 click value with another 10 shot group, the system is as well zeroed as it's ever going to get and the software, once correctly calibrated, should track within your ability to hold.
At 300-400, any small error in MV (+/-30 fps) or BC (+/- .010) really won't change the correct solution, but click values on the scope are large enough to permit getting the group properly centered to inside 1 click in value, if it shoots anyway.
A 1.6" group of 10 shots at 300, with .1 mil adjustments should be within .5" of perfectly centered, or under 1/4 MOA of error. That's eaiser to see and measure than a 10 shot 100 yard group of .7" and try to get to 1/8". Probably personal preferance, but if the group is more than just one hole, triangulation of true center is going to be more accurate than looking at 10 shots making one hole, where 2 of those shots mark the outside edges.
Re: What's so great about Bullet Flight
I bought it for the iPhone, then just recently bought a Samsung G Note and have to buy the software again...bah!
I bought it for the iPhone, then just recently bought a Samsung G Note and have to buy the software again...bah!
Re: What's so great about Bullet Flight
Looking at the shooter app, it looks way better than bullet flight and I wish I had never wasted my money
Looking at the shooter app, it looks way better than bullet flight and I wish I had never wasted my money
Re: What's so great about Bullet Flight
Hmmmmm...can't find Shooter in the App Store. I have been using Mil Dot Ballsitics and really like it.
Hmmmmm...can't find Shooter in the App Store. I have been using Mil Dot Ballsitics and really like it.
Re: What's so great about Bullet Flight
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SLO</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hmmmmm...can't find Shooter in the App Store. I have been using Mil Dot Ballsitics and really like it. </div></div>
search "shooter ballistics"
haveing used FTE, shooter, BF, and a few others, i would rank those at
#1 shooter
#2 FTE
#3 KAC BF
they all will give you about the same data if u put in the same data... but its the usabilaty and extra functions of the others that make them better.....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SLO</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hmmmmm...can't find Shooter in the App Store. I have been using Mil Dot Ballsitics and really like it. </div></div>
search "shooter ballistics"
haveing used FTE, shooter, BF, and a few others, i would rank those at
#1 shooter
#2 FTE
#3 KAC BF
they all will give you about the same data if u put in the same data... but its the usabilaty and extra functions of the others that make them better.....
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