F T/R Competition To Turn, or Not To Turn?

[Tpb10505]

I want to make my reloads as accurate as I possibly can. I'd figured I'd just turn, but I've looked at a few once fired cases on my Redding Concentricity gauge and the necks seem to be very uniform on my Lapua brass, only 3-4 thou variation. So, my question is for you F/TR shooters, do you turn? Would the benefits even be noticeable, or am I just overthinking the issue? Thanks

 

[Jeffvn]

Re: To Turn, or Not To Turn?

"I want to make my reloads as accurate as I possibly can."

You have sort of answered your own question. Turning can (I will not guarantees this as other factors might come into play) give you more uniform neck tension. Since the goal is to get every round to be identical to every other round, uniformity is a good thing.

From my view, turning necks is not really going to affect concentricity of the fired cases. The quality of your chamber will control more in that regard.

I can say this, I've seen some stunningly accurate no turn rifles, including my snug chamber 6x47L.

I turn necks, but I am willing to put in the time and effort to try to extract every scrap of uniformity from round to round that I can. I also anneal frequently, just one more of those efforts at uniformity.

Jeffvn

 

[Tpb10505]

Re: To Turn, or Not To Turn?

Okay this may be a dumb question, but how often do you neck turn a case? Every firing? every 5? I haven't seen anything about that in my searching

 

[XTR]

Re: To Turn, or Not To Turn?

This isn't bench rest. I use a Lee collet sizer, that one addition to my reloading improved my consistency more than anything else. I already spend more time at the reloading bench than I want to, turning just adds another huge time investment.

 

[Jeffvn]

Re: To Turn, or Not To Turn?

How often to turn.

I was stunned late last year when I realized that I needed to re-turn some of my brass. It has/had given me good service life (in the area of 7 or 8 firings), but the rifle was not shooting well, and it started showing pressure signs (tight neck match chamber - loaded rounds are .310 and the chamber is .313 so its snug).

I read something, not sure where, that mentioned a second turning on the brass to eliminate some thickening on the necks. For a 7WSM this should have been predictable to me .... duuuhhhh... given how often the necks need trimming. Anyway, I checked the necks and they had gotten thicker, and not evenly. A quick pass on the turner and they were fine. Rifle is back to shooting fine, and no more pressure issues.

So yes they may need a second or possibly third pass (depending how long the brass provides service) if they thicken up. How frequently is going to be very cartridge dependent.

Jeffvn

 

[rjnallie]

Re: To Turn, or Not To Turn?

I seat bullets with an arbor press and before turning the necks, it was very noticeable the difference in neck tensions due to various neck wall thickness. I don't think a Lee collet die would compensate for that, but I have not tried one.

 

[XTR]

Re: To Turn, or Not To Turn?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rjnallie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I seat bullets with an arbor press and before turning the necks, it was very noticeable the difference in neck tensions due to various neck wall thickness. I don't think a Lee collet die would compensate for that, but I have not tried one. </div></div>

I'm not sure how truly consistent my neck tension is but consider that a collet sizer sizes to the inside of the neck, not the outside like a bushing die. I'm sure I don't get bench rest consistency, but I do get enough that I don't drop points on vertical.

 

[Tpb10505]

Re: To Turn, or Not To Turn?

How does turning provide uniform neck tension when turning the outside of the neck? I would expect there still may be some differences in wall thickness from the inside of the neck that would affect tension.

-XTR, do you mind providing a link to the die you're referring to? Thanks!

 

[rjnallie]

Re: To Turn, or Not To Turn?

The neck turner I use gives a uniform thickness. I turn them to 13 thou.

 

[scotharr]

Re: To Turn, or Not To Turn?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tpb10505</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I want to make my reloads as accurate as I possibly can... </div></div>

Then you should neck turn. It is further down on the list of things to do, but since you said "as I possibly can," then go for it. You should only need to turn your brass once, before the first use. Be sure to turn into the should to prevent the future development of donuts. Turning brass is not as common amongst the tactical shooters as it is with the long range shooters.

 

[Jeffvn]

Re: To Turn, or Not To Turn?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How does turning provide uniform neck tension when turning the outside of the neck? I would expect there still may be some differences in wall thickness from the inside of the neck that would affect tension.</div></div>

When I turn, I run the brass over an expander madrel to force any inconsistencies to the outside of the brass. From there you use a turning mandrel (it is ever so slightly smaller than the expanding mandrel to allow rotation) on the turning gizmo to maintain the interior dimension while you remove the surplus brass from the outside of the necks. (I use a battery-powered screwdriver to power the turning process).

I turn to 0.013, and usually run a .313 neck on my rifles. (Agreed that is too tight for a drop in the dirt and get nasty dirty tactical rig.) But I rarely drop into the mud voluntarily these days.

Jeffvn

 

[DieselWSM]

Re: To Turn, or Not To Turn?

I have only been reloading a shooting F class for a year so forgive my stupidity in regards to this...where do I start? I have never turned a neck, nor have the equipment do it. I run annealed Lapua brass through my 6.5x284 but have never even thought of consistency and accuracy in regards to neck turning until reading this thread. How do I determine the correct measurements? What equipment do I need? I am forever trying to improve my "game" and if this helps, a little more time at the bench is sure to upset the lady...count me in!

 

[rjnallie]

Re: To Turn, or Not To Turn?

Sinclair has all you need. Expander, neck turner, mandrels. You will need an accurate way to measure wall thickness (tubing mic). Most guys I know do one specific caliper with a seperate turner setup. Once it's set you can leave it and keep your cases uniform without coming back and having to reset it. I tried the turner that fits on a case trimmer and that was a waste of time and money. The cutter is very flimsy and tends to break easily.

 

[merrjm]

Re: To Turn, or Not To Turn?

not trying to hijack this thread, but i bounced around the same question and finall bit the bullet so to speak and ordered one (neck turner)from midway. yesterday it came in so i set it up and the mandrel is too big for my resized neck.i cant fit a brass on it at all. do i call forster and order one special cut or am i doing something wrong?? sorry for the hijack o.p.

 

[rjnallie]

Re: To Turn, or Not To Turn?

Once you have sized your case, you need to run an expander die thru the case with the proper size mandrel. Then it should fit your neck turning mandrel. (Read jeffvn's post above) I don't know what Midway sells, but the Sinclair stuff interchanges between the expander mandrel body and the neck turner. You can purchase the mandrels in different sizes to really get the exact tension you want.

 

[memilanuk]

Re: To Turn, or Not To Turn?

Clint,

K&M is another good option... Russ Haydon's Shooter Supply over in Gig Harbor usually carries them and can get them to you fairly quick.

If you have any specific questions on the topic, shoot me an email. If you find yourself up this way (Wenatchee) I can probably arrange a demo for ya

Monte

 

[pappy42]

Re: To Turn, or Not To Turn?

+1 on the K&M, been using one for years.

 

[DieselWSM]

Re: To Turn, or Not To Turn?

When is the next Wenatchee match

 

[leadbullet]

Re: To Turn, or Not To Turn?

turn outside necks and ream inside, too much work for me.

 

[Rthur]

Re: To Turn, or Not To Turn?

I have used Don Neilson's Pumpkin on 6.5 and 300. Once set up neck turning is very easy and can produce great neck consistency on your brass. I like to shoot for .013 if the necks clean up well at that thickness. Also mentioned the expander mandrel will "iron" the differences to the outside of the neck. Either this has helped me make great reloads or I am lucky every time I test my reloads. Btw once set up 350 an hour is not hard to accomplish.

 

[SIE107]

Re: To Turn, or Not To Turn?

21st Century has the best set up I have seen yet! And I use K&M.