Is it just me, or have optics prices jumped about 40% in the last 18 months. Harder to justify every time with the limp economy....
Rifle Scopes Explosion in optics prices
- Thread starter ohiogunnut
- Start date
Re: Explosion in optics prices
It's you. I don't see a $4500 S&B just yet. I think they have gone up but not 40% and we're feeling it like 40% because of the economy.
It's you. I don't see a $4500 S&B just yet. I think they have gone up but not 40% and we're feeling it like 40% because of the economy.
Re: Explosion in optics prices
May be hard to justify, but I'm itching to hand over ~$3000 on a S&B 3-20 H2CMR and can't find anyone to take my money (ie can't find one in stock). The market is bearing the prices.
May be hard to justify, but I'm itching to hand over ~$3000 on a S&B 3-20 H2CMR and can't find anyone to take my money (ie can't find one in stock). The market is bearing the prices.
Re: Explosion in optics prices
Totally agree. Blows my mind with the way inflation has hit the optics market, demand is still insatiable. Figure some is the prepper urge, but frankly an NXS or S&B isn't geared for that. It is odd.
Totally agree. Blows my mind with the way inflation has hit the optics market, demand is still insatiable. Figure some is the prepper urge, but frankly an NXS or S&B isn't geared for that. It is odd.
Re: Explosion in optics prices
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's you. I don't see a $4500 S&B just yet. I think they have gone up but not 40% and we're feeling it like 40% because of the economy. </div></div>
Night force has...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's you. I don't see a $4500 S&B just yet. I think they have gone up but not 40% and we're feeling it like 40% because of the economy. </div></div>
Night force has...
Re: Explosion in optics prices
I've learned to buy used. Today's fad will be tomorrows deal. If you stick to scopes such as NF, Leupold, S&B you will never lose if you pick them up used. Saves on some of the sticker shock.
I've learned to buy used. Today's fad will be tomorrows deal. If you stick to scopes such as NF, Leupold, S&B you will never lose if you pick them up used. Saves on some of the sticker shock.
Re: Explosion in optics prices
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ohiogunnut</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's you. I don't see a $4500 S&B just yet. I think they have gone up but not 40% and we're feeling it like 40% because of the economy. </div></div>
Night force has... </div></div>
If you would be kind enough to provide an example; I would be more inclined to agree!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ohiogunnut</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's you. I don't see a $4500 S&B just yet. I think they have gone up but not 40% and we're feeling it like 40% because of the economy. </div></div>
Night force has... </div></div>
If you would be kind enough to provide an example; I would be more inclined to agree!
Re: Explosion in optics prices
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ohiogunnut</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's you. I don't see a $4500 S&B just yet. I think they have gone up but not 40% and we're feeling it like 40% because of the economy. </div></div>
Night force has...</div></div>
Really, where? Please provide a link because I'd put money on the fact that NightForce has <span style="font-style: italic">not</span> gone up by 40%. I would say Schmidt & Bender has increased their prices more than the rest of the market and still, it wasn't 40%.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ohiogunnut</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's you. I don't see a $4500 S&B just yet. I think they have gone up but not 40% and we're feeling it like 40% because of the economy. </div></div>
Night force has...</div></div>
Really, where? Please provide a link because I'd put money on the fact that NightForce has <span style="font-style: italic">not</span> gone up by 40%. I would say Schmidt & Bender has increased their prices more than the rest of the market and still, it wasn't 40%.
Re: Explosion in optics prices
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Northern50</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've learned to buy used. Today's fad will be tomorrows deal. If you stick to scopes such as NF, Leupold, S&B you will never lose if you pick them up used. Saves on some of the sticker shock. </div></div>
I like this guy!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Northern50</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've learned to buy used. Today's fad will be tomorrows deal. If you stick to scopes such as NF, Leupold, S&B you will never lose if you pick them up used. Saves on some of the sticker shock. </div></div>
I like this guy!
Re: Explosion in optics prices
Schmidt had a 12% price hike at the beginning of 2012, and they weren't the only ones. It increased across the board, but not only with optics. Surefire as well as many other companies adjusted their pricing this past year to meet demand, and to adjust for the inflation. I hate it, but dammit, I will still pay to have quality gear.
Schmidt had a 12% price hike at the beginning of 2012, and they weren't the only ones. It increased across the board, but not only with optics. Surefire as well as many other companies adjusted their pricing this past year to meet demand, and to adjust for the inflation. I hate it, but dammit, I will still pay to have quality gear.
Re: Explosion in optics prices
Realestate comes to mind. Everyone thought up and up; but it had to stop somewhere!
Realestate comes to mind. Everyone thought up and up; but it had to stop somewhere!
Re: Explosion in optics prices
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">May be hard to justify, but I'm itching to hand over ~$3000 on a S&B 3-20 H2CMR and can't find anyone to take my money (ie can't find one in stock). The market is bearing the prices. </div></div>
Have you contacted Troy at <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Veteran Tactical</span></span>? He had some 3-20X[50] CCW H2CMRs' in stock last month. Maybe he still has some.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Veteran Tactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
</div></div>
Keith
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">May be hard to justify, but I'm itching to hand over ~$3000 on a S&B 3-20 H2CMR and can't find anyone to take my money (ie can't find one in stock). The market is bearing the prices. </div></div>
Have you contacted Troy at <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Veteran Tactical</span></span>? He had some 3-20X[50] CCW H2CMRs' in stock last month. Maybe he still has some.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Veteran Tactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Keith
Re: Explosion in optics prices
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">May be hard to justify, but I'm itching to hand over ~$3000 on a S&B 3-20 H2CMR and can't find anyone to take my money (ie can't find one in stock). The market is bearing the prices. </div></div>
Distributor cost is higher than $3000. If you find one for that buy two and I'll buy the other one off you.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">May be hard to justify, but I'm itching to hand over ~$3000 on a S&B 3-20 H2CMR and can't find anyone to take my money (ie can't find one in stock). The market is bearing the prices. </div></div>
Distributor cost is higher than $3000. If you find one for that buy two and I'll buy the other one off you.
Re: Explosion in optics prices
Feds has magically generated a tons of electronic money to save the wall street ("liquidity") and who should be surprised?
Feds has magically generated a tons of electronic money to save the wall street ("liquidity") and who should be surprised?
Re: Explosion in optics prices
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: yej0001</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Feds has magically generated a tons of electronic money to save the wall street ("liquidity") and who should be surprised? </div></div>
Not "Feds", THE Fed. Very different. One is the government, the other is a private organization who's shareholders are made up of a bunch of private banks. Very interesting history that every American should read about
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: yej0001</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Feds has magically generated a tons of electronic money to save the wall street ("liquidity") and who should be surprised? </div></div>
Not "Feds", THE Fed. Very different. One is the government, the other is a private organization who's shareholders are made up of a bunch of private banks. Very interesting history that every American should read about
Re: Explosion in optics prices
Don't know of any. Which brand/model has gone up 40%?
Don't know of any. Which brand/model has gone up 40%?
Re: Explosion in optics prices
buying schmidt level glass is like buying property. when you buy it you say this is ALL its worth and then 5-10 yrs dn the road your glad you did.
buying schmidt level glass is like buying property. when you buy it you say this is ALL its worth and then 5-10 yrs dn the road your glad you did.
Re: Explosion in optics prices
I still think NXS is a steal comparatively. Sub 2K for .....Nighrforce. I would also say the SCope you can buy for $300 in the hunting VALUE BRAND has improved and is quite good for the money.
I still think NXS is a steal comparatively. Sub 2K for .....Nighrforce. I would also say the SCope you can buy for $300 in the hunting VALUE BRAND has improved and is quite good for the money.
Re: Explosion in optics prices
S&B has not increased by 40%. They have increased by more than the 12% price hike though. You have to factor in exchange rates to get the truth. You need to add probably another 6% to that price hike.
With all that said, I am currently waiting on a 5-25.
S&B has not increased by 40%. They have increased by more than the 12% price hike though. You have to factor in exchange rates to get the truth. You need to add probably another 6% to that price hike.
With all that said, I am currently waiting on a 5-25.
Re: Explosion in optics prices
Leupold came down from ~$3500 to $2999 on their CQBSS
Leupold came down from ~$3500 to $2999 on their CQBSS
Re: Explosion in optics prices
Not sure about the last 18 months, but it is amazing how much they have gone up in the last 5 or so years.
I bought a NIB Zeiss Victory Diavari 6-24x56 for $1550 in 2006. That same scope today costs $2400 on Cameraland. Roughly a 50% increase in 6 years.
Not sure about the last 18 months, but it is amazing how much they have gone up in the last 5 or so years.
I bought a NIB Zeiss Victory Diavari 6-24x56 for $1550 in 2006. That same scope today costs $2400 on Cameraland. Roughly a 50% increase in 6 years.
Re: Explosion in optics prices
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Night force has... </div></div>
the 5.5-22x50 NXS I bought in 2005-2006 is now <$270 more for same features.
$45/year
<20%
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Night force has... </div></div>
the 5.5-22x50 NXS I bought in 2005-2006 is now <$270 more for same features.
$45/year
<20%
Re: Explosion in optics prices
Ammo prices are what is killing me.
My buddy said the only way to have this cost more was to do it from a boat or the skids of a Bell 407. LOL.
Good glass costs. Good glass finishes a good rifle. Sold all of my golfing, fishing, 4 wheeler, waterski/wakeboard bullshit for...
...rifles/scopes.
Ammo prices are what is killing me.
My buddy said the only way to have this cost more was to do it from a boat or the skids of a Bell 407. LOL.
Good glass costs. Good glass finishes a good rifle. Sold all of my golfing, fishing, 4 wheeler, waterski/wakeboard bullshit for...
...rifles/scopes.
Re: Explosion in optics prices
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Santee116</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not sure about the last 18 months, but it is amazing how much they have gone up in the last 5 or so years.
I bought a NIB Zeiss Victory Diavari 6-24x56 for $1550 in 2006. That same scope today costs $2400 on Cameraland. Roughly a 50% increase in 6 years.
</div></div>
Pretty certain $1550 wasn't retail on your Zeiss; must have gotten a great deal, so not really a fair comparison. If you wait long enough you may be able to get a similar deal if they don't sell.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Santee116</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not sure about the last 18 months, but it is amazing how much they have gone up in the last 5 or so years.
I bought a NIB Zeiss Victory Diavari 6-24x56 for $1550 in 2006. That same scope today costs $2400 on Cameraland. Roughly a 50% increase in 6 years.
</div></div>
Pretty certain $1550 wasn't retail on your Zeiss; must have gotten a great deal, so not really a fair comparison. If you wait long enough you may be able to get a similar deal if they don't sell.
Re: Explosion in optics prices
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ohiogunnut</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is it just me, or have optics prices jumped about 40% in the last 18 months. Harder to justify every time with the limp economy.... </div></div>SB has upped their prices and cut their dealer margins: It used to be that one could get one for $2900, sell it for $3200 and make money. Now the same SB costs $3200-plus, and dealers have to sell it for $3600-plus to make the same amount of money. I just don't know how they can justify it, and how the dealers can make it worth their while.
And the consumer just isn't biting - not with NF F1s available for 95% of list price any day of the week and the very good Bushnell HDMR out there, with a GAP reticle, at a street price of $1200.
And did I mention that the last SB I ordered came f'd up from the factory and I had to send it back? I've never - repeat: Never - had to do that before with any SB. I'll still buy SB, and they're still damn good scopes, but now for the price they are asking I want to see it and inspect it for myself first.
Interesting times in the scope market... I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens in the long run.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ohiogunnut</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is it just me, or have optics prices jumped about 40% in the last 18 months. Harder to justify every time with the limp economy.... </div></div>SB has upped their prices and cut their dealer margins: It used to be that one could get one for $2900, sell it for $3200 and make money. Now the same SB costs $3200-plus, and dealers have to sell it for $3600-plus to make the same amount of money. I just don't know how they can justify it, and how the dealers can make it worth their while.
And the consumer just isn't biting - not with NF F1s available for 95% of list price any day of the week and the very good Bushnell HDMR out there, with a GAP reticle, at a street price of $1200.
And did I mention that the last SB I ordered came f'd up from the factory and I had to send it back? I've never - repeat: Never - had to do that before with any SB. I'll still buy SB, and they're still damn good scopes, but now for the price they are asking I want to see it and inspect it for myself first.
Interesting times in the scope market... I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens in the long run.
Re: Explosion in optics prices
S&B only about 14% more now than early 2011.
S&B only about 14% more now than early 2011.
Re: Explosion in optics prices
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MR JOSHUA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">S&B only about 14% more now than early 2011. </div></div>"Only"... Except that it's the same fricken scope. And it's 14% of a crapload of money, which they've already made for themselves ten times over on the old design. I understand marketing a more expensive new scope, when combined with the less expensive old scope, but greater business minds than mine have likely run the numbers and decided that the model they implemented works better for the bottom line. Too bad this time it benefits the company and not the consumer.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MR JOSHUA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">S&B only about 14% more now than early 2011. </div></div>"Only"... Except that it's the same fricken scope. And it's 14% of a crapload of money, which they've already made for themselves ten times over on the old design. I understand marketing a more expensive new scope, when combined with the less expensive old scope, but greater business minds than mine have likely run the numbers and decided that the model they implemented works better for the bottom line. Too bad this time it benefits the company and not the consumer.
Re: Explosion in optics prices
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ohiogunnut</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is it just me, or have optics prices jumped about 40% in the last 18 months. Harder to justify every time with the limp economy.... </div></div>SB has upped their prices and cut their dealer margins: It used to be that one could get one for $2900, sell it for $3200 and make money. Now the same SB costs $3200-plus, and dealers have to sell it for $3600-plus to make the same amount of money. I don't know how they can do it.
And the consumer just isn't biting - not with NF F1s available for 95% of list price any day of the week and the very good Bushnell HDMR out there, with a GAP reticle, at a street price of $1200.
And did I mention that the last SB I ordered came f'd up from the factory and I had to send it back? I've never - repeat Never - had to do that before with any SB. I'll still buy SB, and they're still damn good scopes, but now for the price they are asking <span style="color: #FF0000">I want to see it and inspect it for myself first.</span>
Interesting times in the scope market... I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens in the long run. </div></div>
I am not too crazy about their pricing either; but I can't speak for anyone else, and I am not as qualified as a certified S&B technician. Easy to find what's wrong as long as you know what you're looking for. I have a feeling it is more complicated then people assume.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ohiogunnut</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is it just me, or have optics prices jumped about 40% in the last 18 months. Harder to justify every time with the limp economy.... </div></div>SB has upped their prices and cut their dealer margins: It used to be that one could get one for $2900, sell it for $3200 and make money. Now the same SB costs $3200-plus, and dealers have to sell it for $3600-plus to make the same amount of money. I don't know how they can do it.
And the consumer just isn't biting - not with NF F1s available for 95% of list price any day of the week and the very good Bushnell HDMR out there, with a GAP reticle, at a street price of $1200.
And did I mention that the last SB I ordered came f'd up from the factory and I had to send it back? I've never - repeat Never - had to do that before with any SB. I'll still buy SB, and they're still damn good scopes, but now for the price they are asking <span style="color: #FF0000">I want to see it and inspect it for myself first.</span>
Interesting times in the scope market... I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens in the long run. </div></div>
I am not too crazy about their pricing either; but I can't speak for anyone else, and I am not as qualified as a certified S&B technician. Easy to find what's wrong as long as you know what you're looking for. I have a feeling it is more complicated then people assume.
Re: Explosion in optics prices
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MR JOSHUA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">S&B only about 14% more now than early 2011. </div></div>"Only"... Except that it's the same fricken scope. And it's 14% of a crapload of money, which they've already made for themselves ten times over on the old design. I understand marketing a more expensive new scope, when combined with the less expensive old scope, but greater business minds than mine have likely run the numbers and decided that the model they have implemented works better for the bottom line. Too bad this time it benefits the company and not the consumer.
</div></div>
It always at the least benefits the company; and sometimes both, or they go out of business.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MR JOSHUA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">S&B only about 14% more now than early 2011. </div></div>"Only"... Except that it's the same fricken scope. And it's 14% of a crapload of money, which they've already made for themselves ten times over on the old design. I understand marketing a more expensive new scope, when combined with the less expensive old scope, but greater business minds than mine have likely run the numbers and decided that the model they have implemented works better for the bottom line. Too bad this time it benefits the company and not the consumer.
</div></div>
It always at the least benefits the company; and sometimes both, or they go out of business.
Re: Explosion in optics prices
Compared to many people I know, I don't now that much about the technical aspect of rifle scopes. But I can tell if a scope has reticle jump and whether the reticle/image is centered in the eyebox at max power by inspecting it with the naked eye.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It always at the least benefits the company; and sometimes both, or they go out of business. </div></div>I doubt that SB is in any danger of going out of business. I could be wrong, and I claim no special knowledge, but this latest pricing move is more an indicator of a company that is FDH (fat, dumb and happy) with a business centered on other things than individual retail sales of PMIIs.
The question is whether they have reached the point of price inelasticity...or not.
Compared to many people I know, I don't now that much about the technical aspect of rifle scopes. But I can tell if a scope has reticle jump and whether the reticle/image is centered in the eyebox at max power by inspecting it with the naked eye.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It always at the least benefits the company; and sometimes both, or they go out of business. </div></div>I doubt that SB is in any danger of going out of business. I could be wrong, and I claim no special knowledge, but this latest pricing move is more an indicator of a company that is FDH (fat, dumb and happy) with a business centered on other things than individual retail sales of PMIIs.
The question is whether they have reached the point of price inelasticity...or not.
Re: Explosion in optics prices
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Compared to many people I know, I don't now that much about the technical aspect of rifle scopes. But I can tell if a scope has reticle jump and whether the reticle/image is centered in the eyebox at max power by inspecting at it. </div></div>
Not questioning your ability, but I feel a S&B tech is more qualified then most. Their prices are high can't argue that and it isn't rocket science, but even NASA had their issues. I feel your pain and sometimes shit happens, and I get more then my share of "shit happens". As far as design I agree but the cost of supplies seem to constantly go up. Just curious what do you think of the rise in cost of composite stocks in the last few years? Pretty certain not much change there as far as design. And I think you're getting somewhere w/ your "FDH" theory!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Compared to many people I know, I don't now that much about the technical aspect of rifle scopes. But I can tell if a scope has reticle jump and whether the reticle/image is centered in the eyebox at max power by inspecting at it. </div></div>
Not questioning your ability, but I feel a S&B tech is more qualified then most. Their prices are high can't argue that and it isn't rocket science, but even NASA had their issues. I feel your pain and sometimes shit happens, and I get more then my share of "shit happens". As far as design I agree but the cost of supplies seem to constantly go up. Just curious what do you think of the rise in cost of composite stocks in the last few years? Pretty certain not much change there as far as design. And I think you're getting somewhere w/ your "FDH" theory!
Re: Explosion in optics prices
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kevlars</div><div class="ubbcode-body">so just asking what do you think would happen when the Fed just prints money (monitory easing)... Of course prices are going to go up... </div></div>A double digit scope price increase is in no way related to inflation in an economy that is teetering on the edge of deflation. Besides, when I use my credit card I create money that didn't exist a split second earlier and uncontrollably inject that money into the economy. That's inflationary. But it doesn't affect scope prices either.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just curious what do you think of the rise in cost of composite stocks in the last few years? Pretty certain not much change there as far as design.</div></div>It's crazy that an AICS folder costs over a grand retail. It's crazy that a wedge of fiberglass costs seven hundred bucks. Unless I'm missing something, those prices bear absolutely no relationship to the raw costs of production. Sure, all tolled it's a small market; and it's not criminal activity because there's no law preventing it. So instead we call it business and keep quiet about what we are all thinking - that it's probably a money grab, pure and simple. Again, no inside knowledge here, but why does McMillan stick with a known crappy saddle cheek piece when there are better, stronger designs available? Maybe because upgrading the quality of the product would cut the profit margin for the manufacturer. I'm just speculating about that, but it would seem to make sense.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kevlars</div><div class="ubbcode-body">so just asking what do you think would happen when the Fed just prints money (monitory easing)... Of course prices are going to go up... </div></div>A double digit scope price increase is in no way related to inflation in an economy that is teetering on the edge of deflation. Besides, when I use my credit card I create money that didn't exist a split second earlier and uncontrollably inject that money into the economy. That's inflationary. But it doesn't affect scope prices either.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just curious what do you think of the rise in cost of composite stocks in the last few years? Pretty certain not much change there as far as design.</div></div>It's crazy that an AICS folder costs over a grand retail. It's crazy that a wedge of fiberglass costs seven hundred bucks. Unless I'm missing something, those prices bear absolutely no relationship to the raw costs of production. Sure, all tolled it's a small market; and it's not criminal activity because there's no law preventing it. So instead we call it business and keep quiet about what we are all thinking - that it's probably a money grab, pure and simple. Again, no inside knowledge here, but why does McMillan stick with a known crappy saddle cheek piece when there are better, stronger designs available? Maybe because upgrading the quality of the product would cut the profit margin for the manufacturer. I'm just speculating about that, but it would seem to make sense.
Re: Explosion in optics prices
Anytime lawyers,doctors,dentists get involved this happens! Look at NFA items, Harley Davidson ... Yuppies get us everytime. Not a "blue collar sport" anymore!
Anytime lawyers,doctors,dentists get involved this happens! Look at NFA items, Harley Davidson ... Yuppies get us everytime. Not a "blue collar sport" anymore!
Re: Explosion in optics prices
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anytime lawyers,doctors,dentists get involved this happens! Look at NFA items, Harley Davidson ... Yuppies get us everytime. Not a "blue collar sport" anymore! </div></div>
Pretty much my original point. I'm not talking about model XYZ from manufacturer ABC that went up 40%. I'm talking about the question posed with a new rifle build. The urge is always to get the scope usually just below the top end to stay current (same as when selecting a CPU for your new computer). THAT price point in optics is rising like crazy. The Leupold MK8 is an extreme exception, but if you look at the relatively new players such as Steiner, Kahles, etc. EVERYBODY thinks you need to now charge 3 grand to be worth a damn. I know police departments and average civi's don't have that kind of cash, so I am at a loss to explain it. Don't get me wrong, I love my USO's (which honestly have stayed where they have been), but I can't figure out why, with the exception of Vortex and Bushnell, everybody thinks they are = or better than S&B and USO... Flame away.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anytime lawyers,doctors,dentists get involved this happens! Look at NFA items, Harley Davidson ... Yuppies get us everytime. Not a "blue collar sport" anymore! </div></div>
Pretty much my original point. I'm not talking about model XYZ from manufacturer ABC that went up 40%. I'm talking about the question posed with a new rifle build. The urge is always to get the scope usually just below the top end to stay current (same as when selecting a CPU for your new computer). THAT price point in optics is rising like crazy. The Leupold MK8 is an extreme exception, but if you look at the relatively new players such as Steiner, Kahles, etc. EVERYBODY thinks you need to now charge 3 grand to be worth a damn. I know police departments and average civi's don't have that kind of cash, so I am at a loss to explain it. Don't get me wrong, I love my USO's (which honestly have stayed where they have been), but I can't figure out why, with the exception of Vortex and Bushnell, everybody thinks they are = or better than S&B and USO... Flame away.
Re: Explosion in optics prices
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ohiogunnut</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> EVERYBODY thinks you need to now charge 3 grand to be worth a damn. </div></div>
It didn't work out too well for another optical company; and you know what they say about history!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ohiogunnut</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> EVERYBODY thinks you need to now charge 3 grand to be worth a damn. </div></div>
It didn't work out too well for another optical company; and you know what they say about history!
Re: Explosion in optics prices
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: macfly</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: yej0001</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Feds has magically generated a tons of electronic money to save the wall street ("liquidity") and who should be surprised? </div></div>
Not "Feds", THE Fed. Very different. One is the government, the other is a private organization who's shareholders are made up of a bunch of private banks. Very interesting history that every American should read about </div></div>
Fed and Feds - both to blame
Federal Reserve initiated QE1 and QE2. QE3 might be coming
Fed started to save Wall Street from Bush/Paulson - then Obama brought in the stimulus plan
BTW - Feds is a private organization by name only - don't be naive
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: macfly</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: yej0001</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Feds has magically generated a tons of electronic money to save the wall street ("liquidity") and who should be surprised? </div></div>
Not "Feds", THE Fed. Very different. One is the government, the other is a private organization who's shareholders are made up of a bunch of private banks. Very interesting history that every American should read about </div></div>
Fed and Feds - both to blame
Federal Reserve initiated QE1 and QE2. QE3 might be coming
Fed started to save Wall Street from Bush/Paulson - then Obama brought in the stimulus plan
BTW - Feds is a private organization by name only - don't be naive
Re: Explosion in optics prices
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anytime lawyers,doctors,dentists get involved this happens! Look at NFA items, Harley Davidson ... Yuppies get us everytime. Not a "blue collar sport" anymore! </div></div>Well, since I appear to be on a roll:
The price increase in NFA items was the product of legislation, not of yuppie dentists. One could be tempted to blame the results of all legislation on lawyers, but you might be amazed at how many people do just that while at the same time refusing to blame all guns for firearms injuries.
You may be closer to the mark on the Harley thing. But in order to sell a twelve thousand dollar bike for over twenty-five thousand dollars Harley must sell the myth of the bike instead of the bike itself: Today’s Harley rider claims to be expressing his freedom and individuality when he knows that he is not. He knows that he is only embracing the myth of American individualism. Because there's no way he doesn't understand that a twenty-five thousand dollar bike can't possibly belong to an impoverished working-class hero.
In the late 1940's, disenchanted war veterans chopped up inexpensive war surplus Harleys to rebel against the conformity expected of them by the new corporatism of the post-war world: To ride a Harley meant not to wear a suit, not to work in an office, not to fight in an army. Not until long after this real rebellion was over did the Harley Davidson Company become an icon of individualism. By the late 1980's the Harley motorcycle made it possible for ordinary people to embrace the conformity of corporatism from 9-5, then to magically transform themselves into weekend pseudo-rebels by dressing up in expensive leather and jumping on fully-mortgaged motorcycles that would not exceed 5800RPM and 90 miles per hour.
The slogan should be: Live to Ride. Ride to pay back the bank. Because today everyone knows that a Harley is no more a working-class bike than blue-jeans are a working-class garment. The fascinating question is why the modern proliferation of Harleys and the unparalleled level of uniformity among these so-called individualist bikers has had no effect on the mythology that Harleys represent freedom. Perhaps these people are more comfortable with symbolism than with substance. Perhaps they feel an overwhelming need to conform with what other people are doing - even on the weekends. Either way, they are choosing to pretend to be something rather than to strive to become something.
And perhaps that is why no one cares whether their Harley tracks properly as long as there is chrome on it. Let's hope that this same mentality is not affecting the scope industry.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anytime lawyers,doctors,dentists get involved this happens! Look at NFA items, Harley Davidson ... Yuppies get us everytime. Not a "blue collar sport" anymore! </div></div>Well, since I appear to be on a roll:
The price increase in NFA items was the product of legislation, not of yuppie dentists. One could be tempted to blame the results of all legislation on lawyers, but you might be amazed at how many people do just that while at the same time refusing to blame all guns for firearms injuries.
You may be closer to the mark on the Harley thing. But in order to sell a twelve thousand dollar bike for over twenty-five thousand dollars Harley must sell the myth of the bike instead of the bike itself: Today’s Harley rider claims to be expressing his freedom and individuality when he knows that he is not. He knows that he is only embracing the myth of American individualism. Because there's no way he doesn't understand that a twenty-five thousand dollar bike can't possibly belong to an impoverished working-class hero.
In the late 1940's, disenchanted war veterans chopped up inexpensive war surplus Harleys to rebel against the conformity expected of them by the new corporatism of the post-war world: To ride a Harley meant not to wear a suit, not to work in an office, not to fight in an army. Not until long after this real rebellion was over did the Harley Davidson Company become an icon of individualism. By the late 1980's the Harley motorcycle made it possible for ordinary people to embrace the conformity of corporatism from 9-5, then to magically transform themselves into weekend pseudo-rebels by dressing up in expensive leather and jumping on fully-mortgaged motorcycles that would not exceed 5800RPM and 90 miles per hour.
The slogan should be: Live to Ride. Ride to pay back the bank. Because today everyone knows that a Harley is no more a working-class bike than blue-jeans are a working-class garment. The fascinating question is why the modern proliferation of Harleys and the unparalleled level of uniformity among these so-called individualist bikers has had no effect on the mythology that Harleys represent freedom. Perhaps these people are more comfortable with symbolism than with substance. Perhaps they feel an overwhelming need to conform with what other people are doing - even on the weekends. Either way, they are choosing to pretend to be something rather than to strive to become something.
And perhaps that is why no one cares whether their Harley tracks properly as long as there is chrome on it. Let's hope that this same mentality is not affecting the scope industry.
Re: Explosion in optics prices
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MR JOSHUA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">S&B only about 14% more now than early 2011. </div></div>"Only"... Except that it's the same fricken scope. And it's 14% of a crapload of money, which they've already made for themselves ten times over on the old design. I understand marketing a more expensive new scope, when combined with the less expensive old scope, but greater business minds than mine have likely run the numbers and decided that the model they implemented works better for the bottom line. Too bad this time it benefits the company and not the consumer.
</div></div>
The reason why I say "only" is cause for me I wouldn't hesitate spending another $400 today to get the same scope. Not that I would want to sell you mine and buy a new one haha. My S&B scopes have served me well. I just think it's worth it. I haven't (knock on wood) nor do I know anyone who had any problems. I don't weld my scopes to my rifles so I can put it on anything. They also hold their value well to so if I ever need money I can sell them. It'll probably last long enough for my grandchildren to use. So $400 divided over my lifetime...still worth it in my book.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MR JOSHUA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">S&B only about 14% more now than early 2011. </div></div>"Only"... Except that it's the same fricken scope. And it's 14% of a crapload of money, which they've already made for themselves ten times over on the old design. I understand marketing a more expensive new scope, when combined with the less expensive old scope, but greater business minds than mine have likely run the numbers and decided that the model they implemented works better for the bottom line. Too bad this time it benefits the company and not the consumer.
</div></div>
The reason why I say "only" is cause for me I wouldn't hesitate spending another $400 today to get the same scope. Not that I would want to sell you mine and buy a new one haha. My S&B scopes have served me well. I just think it's worth it. I haven't (knock on wood) nor do I know anyone who had any problems. I don't weld my scopes to my rifles so I can put it on anything. They also hold their value well to so if I ever need money I can sell them. It'll probably last long enough for my grandchildren to use. So $400 divided over my lifetime...still worth it in my book.
Re: Explosion in optics prices
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anytime lawyers,doctors,dentists get involved this happens! Look at NFA items, Harley Davidson ... Yuppies get us everytime. Not a "blue collar sport" anymore! </div></div>Well, since I appear to be on a roll:
The price increase in NFA items was the product of legislation, not of yuppie dentists. </div></div>
Yes originially after 86 they went up roughly 40%. OK let's say that's legislation; then they constantly went up every year. $1000 M16 then now for $20000! You'd be surprised who has invested in NFA items.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anytime lawyers,doctors,dentists get involved this happens! Look at NFA items, Harley Davidson ... Yuppies get us everytime. Not a "blue collar sport" anymore! </div></div>Well, since I appear to be on a roll:
The price increase in NFA items was the product of legislation, not of yuppie dentists. </div></div>
Yes originially after 86 they went up roughly 40%. OK let's say that's legislation; then they constantly went up every year. $1000 M16 then now for $20000! You'd be surprised who has invested in NFA items.
Re: Explosion in optics prices
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MR JOSHUA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
They also hold their value well to so if I ever need money I can sell them.</div></div>
I think this is part of how we justify it to ourselves and sustain this crazy market...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MR JOSHUA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
They also hold their value well to so if I ever need money I can sell them.</div></div>
I think this is part of how we justify it to ourselves and sustain this crazy market...
Re: Explosion in optics prices
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ohiogunnut</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MR JOSHUA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
They also hold their value well to so if I ever need money I can sell them.</div></div>
I think this is part of how we justify it to ourselves and sustain this crazy market... </div></div>
Works great right up to the part when you can buy a brandnew one for less money!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ohiogunnut</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MR JOSHUA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
They also hold their value well to so if I ever need money I can sell them.</div></div>
I think this is part of how we justify it to ourselves and sustain this crazy market... </div></div>
Works great right up to the part when you can buy a brandnew one for less money!
Re: Explosion in optics prices
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ohiogunnut</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MR JOSHUA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
They also hold their value well to so if I ever need money I can sell them.</div></div>
I think this is part of how we justify it to ourselves and sustain this crazy market... </div></div>
Works great right up to the part when you can buy a brandnew one for less money!</div></div>
Didn't feel like waiting for a S&B boycott or for the prices to come back down. If they ever do.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ohiogunnut</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MR JOSHUA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
They also hold their value well to so if I ever need money I can sell them.</div></div>
I think this is part of how we justify it to ourselves and sustain this crazy market... </div></div>
Works great right up to the part when you can buy a brandnew one for less money!</div></div>
Didn't feel like waiting for a S&B boycott or for the prices to come back down. If they ever do.
Re: Explosion in optics prices
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MR JOSHUA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Didn't feel like waiting for a S&B boycott or for the prices to come back down. If they ever do. </div></div>
FWIW, I wasn't directing that to S&B, but I've seen it happen to 2 other companies.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MR JOSHUA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Didn't feel like waiting for a S&B boycott or for the prices to come back down. If they ever do. </div></div>
FWIW, I wasn't directing that to S&B, but I've seen it happen to 2 other companies.
Re: Explosion in optics prices
I know you meant it generally. Had to look up FWIW though haha
I know you meant it generally. Had to look up FWIW though haha
Re: Explosion in optics prices
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Santee116</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not sure about the last 18 months, but it is amazing how much they have gone up in the last 5 or so years.
I bought a NIB Zeiss Victory Diavari 6-24x56 for $1550 in 2006. That same scope today costs $2400 on Cameraland. Roughly a 50% increase in 6 years.
</div></div>
Pretty certain $1550 wasn't retail on your Zeiss; must have gotten a great deal, so not really a fair comparison. If you wait long enough you may be able to get a similar deal if they don't sell. </div></div>
I didn't get any special deal that I know of, I was just "Joe Blow" that walked in off the street. I kept the box and the receipt and the price was indeed $1549.99 in 2006. If the store I got it from had some special pricing, I was unaware of it at the time.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Santee116</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not sure about the last 18 months, but it is amazing how much they have gone up in the last 5 or so years.
I bought a NIB Zeiss Victory Diavari 6-24x56 for $1550 in 2006. That same scope today costs $2400 on Cameraland. Roughly a 50% increase in 6 years.
</div></div>
Pretty certain $1550 wasn't retail on your Zeiss; must have gotten a great deal, so not really a fair comparison. If you wait long enough you may be able to get a similar deal if they don't sell. </div></div>
I didn't get any special deal that I know of, I was just "Joe Blow" that walked in off the street. I kept the box and the receipt and the price was indeed $1549.99 in 2006. If the store I got it from had some special pricing, I was unaware of it at the time.
Re: Explosion in optics prices
Wow, didn't even get a free coke!
Wow, didn't even get a free coke!
Re: Explosion in optics prices
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow, didn't even get a free coke! </div></div>
Funny, I was thinking the same thing at the time of the transaction.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow, didn't even get a free coke! </div></div>
Funny, I was thinking the same thing at the time of the transaction.
Similar threads
