Target shooting and wildfires...

[Amerigo]

Not sure what subforum this should be in... ???

I'm a college student and I'll be headed back home to Utah for the summer. I want to bring my rifle since I'll have tons of free time.

There have been dozens of wildfires in Utah over the past few weeks that were all reportedly started by target shooters, some that have climbed over mountains and threatened homes causing evacuations. The governor announced that shooters will now be footing the bill for the fires.

I've been out in these areas before, and a lot of people shoot Wolf ammo. I don't shoot steel ammo, and I'll only be shooting paper over the summer. It's like a tinderbox in Utah right now... but do you think shooting paper with non-steel ammo is still risky given the current situation?

 

[TOP PREDATOR]

Re: Target shooting and wildfires...

unlike in the movies, i've rarely found LEAD bullets, even with copper jackets spark against anything.

possibly one of those target shooters droped their lit marlboro on dry kindle, or some moron shooting tannerite.

easiaer to blame target shooting rather than the target SHOOTER!

 

[slowagon]

Re: Target shooting and wildfires...

I don't think tannerite can start fires. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I have seen fires started from tracer fire though.

 

[mkollman74]

Re: Target shooting and wildfires...

I don't believe that copper and lead actually spark due to friction at all. Someone with more knowledge than I will hopefully chime in (High school science was awhile ago for me), but I seem to recall that the only non-ferrous metal that sparks is titanium.

 

[gme]

Re: Target shooting and wildfires...

We've already had a few small fires at our club this season, there's a few consistant causes, 1 - magnetic (steel jacket or core) ammo will cause fires, in fact we had a small fire today when a shooter firing Greek HXP at paper targets struck a rocky area in the impact zone and triggered a small fire some 50 feet away in a dry brush area. 2 - Soft steel targets, impacts on soft sreel targets even with copper/lead ammunition will knock hot steel off the target, we had a small fire two weeks ago caused by shooter firing on a soft steel target. During fire season I like to shoot ballons, they're cheap, easy to clean up and very challenging if allowed to move in the wind

 

[bolloxinaspanner]

Re: Target shooting and wildfires...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gme</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> During fire season I like to shoot ballons, they're cheap, easy to clean up and very challenging if allowed to move in the wind </div></div>
Hmmmmm...so, balloons in September, eh? Time to break out the latex seeking sidewinder projos.

 

[mkollman74]

Re: Target shooting and wildfires...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gme</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We've already had a few small fires at our club this season, there's a few consistant causes, 1 - magnetic (steel jacket or core) ammo will cause fires, in fact we had a small fire today when a shooter firing Greek HXP at paper targets struck a rocky area in the impact zone and triggered a small fire some 50 feet away in a dry brush area. 2 - Soft steel targets, impacts on soft sreel targets even with copper/lead ammunition will knock hot steel off the target, we had a small fire two weeks ago caused by shooter firing on a soft steel target. During fire season I like to shoot ballons, they're cheap, easy to clean up and very challenging if allowed to move in the wind </div></div>

Good input. I didn't think of the metal from the targets. I also like to shoot balloons, they are great cheap reactive targets.

 

[Arbiter]

Re: Target shooting and wildfires...

I've seen fires started by tracers, Tannerite, and even standard lead-core bullets fired into a bushy, vegetation-covered sand berm. Being the one to have to put them out, I can confirm that it does indeed happen when the vegetation is dry enough and wind conditions are right...although it's damned rare, all it takes is once.

The best recommendation I could make would be to shoot <span style="font-weight: bold">ONLY</span> into a heavily-contained/high-angle backstop consisting of bare exposed soil and rock, without any vegetation within 20-30 yards of the impact zone. Think dry wash, or small canyon. The goal is to contain all bullets within the sand, well away from any potential fuel. If you can't ensure that the bullets won't ricochet out, or potentially land somewhere outside that area, I wouldn't risk it.

 

[Temp9]

Re: Target shooting and wildfires...

Shooting AR500 steel, I haven't seen any sparks from copper and lead slugs. I have, however, seen sparks off of an old frying pan with lead handgun ammo. I don't doubt that some of the fires near Saratoga/Utah Lake were caused by target shooters, but I do doubt they were caused by actual shooting. Probably cigarette butts and plain human stupidity. Of the 20-30 fires in UT in the last month, I believe only the Utah Lake ones were "traced back" to target shooters. The others say nothing more than "human-caused".

 

[Paulus]

Re: Target shooting and wildfires...

you could also try a carton of past expiration date eggs. set em up on golf tees, and have a blast.

-Paulus

 

[9H_Cracka]

Re: Target shooting and wildfires...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TOP PREDATOR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">unlike in the movies, i've rarely found LEAD bullets, even with copper jackets spark against anything.

</div></div>

Then you've never shot at night with nightvision or thermal.

 

[JeffP40]

Re: Target shooting and wildfires...

We have found that the residual heat from lead bullets on hard steel wil start fires. At Gary Marbuts' long range shoot in Potomac, we had it happen twice. The duff (needles, etc.) below the targets started shortly after the shoot. We now do not shoot in July or August when dry. We came to that conclusion after the second fire, we were somewhat perplexed after the first.

 

[majohnson2]

Re: Target shooting and wildfires...

We have the same fire issue here in CO. I contacted the ranger station for Pawnee Grassland Lands. The ranger advised me that not only are the Grasslands closed, but also all the National Parks.

If you plan on heading out, you might check with your local agency about closures.

 

[Paulus]

Re: Target shooting and wildfires...

+1 for standard lead/copper bullets hitting steel, starting fire. happened to us on some private land about a month ago, here in iowa of all places. its a drought this year so dry field grass everywhere. even with it mowed down short, it still caught. Thank God for fire extinguishers.

-Paulus

 

[Amerigo]

Re: Target shooting and wildfires...

There aren't any official closures or restrictions at the moment regarding shooting (other than no tracer ammunition). But the thought of having to pay the cost of extinguishing a wildfire is pretty scary, even if the risk is small.

When shooting paper, I typically just tape the target to a cardboard box and put a weight in the bottom of the box. I wonder if I filled up a sandbag and stuck it in the box behind the target??? Will a single sandbag stop .308 from 100 meters?

 

[Strykervet]

Re: Target shooting and wildfires...

I wouldn't worry about it. I'd probably take some extra water maybe incase I started one by accident some other way, but I doubt the lead or jacketed ammo would be a problem.

Just make sure your backstop isn't flint and dry grass!

At Yakima, I started a wildfire once. Well, me and my unit did. We were at a range and planned on a big combined arms training thing with lots of cool shit. It got called off when one Stryker with Raufoss rounds lit up a range and immediately set it on fire. Aways away, another one was started by an AT4.

Ball did not do that at all from the same platform.

So we did end up shooting non incediary and non explosive rounds and had no problems with any fires after that (but we did have to put out another some guy started nearby with a cigarette butt thrown out of a window. The fire was literally yards from this house before we got it stopped too.

Wildfires are scary, I never thought 2' sagebrush could turn into a 30' flame inferno!

 

[Strykervet]

Re: Target shooting and wildfires...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _9H_Cracka</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TOP PREDATOR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">unlike in the movies, i've rarely found LEAD bullets, even with copper jackets spark against anything.

</div></div>

Then you've never shot at night with nightvision or thermal.</div></div>

Yeah, that is true, but if he's shooting paper and the backdrop is dirt, sand, whatever, then he should be fine.

What you see isn't sparks, it is when the jacket rips apart the force of the impact heats it up and makes those components glow... I've had a few stuck in my face before from shooting steels at very close range with an M4 and they are indeed hot.

Bottom line is be careful. Maybe take a shovel too.

 

[Temp9]

Re: Target shooting and wildfires...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Amerigo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There aren't any official closures or restrictions at the moment regarding shooting (other than no tracer ammunition). But the thought of having to pay the cost of extinguishing a wildfire is pretty scary, even if the risk is small.

When shooting paper, I typically just tape the target to a cardboard box and put a weight in the bottom of the box. I wonder if I filled up a sandbag and stuck it in the box behind the target??? Will a single sandbag stop .308 from 100 meters?</div></div>
The though of burning down someone's house is what scares me.

A single sandbag should stop a .308 with little problem. Probably a .338, too.
http://theboxotruth.com/docs/bot7.htm

 

[aur0ra145]

Re: Target shooting and wildfires...

Watch out for some of the military ammo (7.62x54R) they sometimes have steel cores. Which can lead to fires and such. I was once at a bachelor party for one of my Baptist friends (obviously absolutely no drinking envovled) and we were shooting computer cases. They sparked like it was cool.

Thankfully, we had put 2 tarps under the 'targets' to catch all debrit so clean up was as simple as folding a towel. Also, nothing bad leaked into the enviroment.

I've got a hard drive with a perfect .30 cal hole through it. Best hard drive deletion service I've ever preformed. Thermite is a close second.