Sidearms & Scatterguns smith & wesson titanium

[eli polite]

I bought a titanium .38 for my wife. This gun is strictly for self defense.

She likes to walk in our neighborhood during the day while I'm at work. We have lived here for 14 years a small town in central Delaware. Far from what you would call a high crime area "BUT" in the last few years things have just changed for the worse.My wife is 5' 6" 110lbs and she is pretty. lately that is becoming a problem. not to long ago as she was coming up to our home a car pulled up next to her and a man hopped out and started to try and ask for directions. he started saying come with me show me ill bring you back. she turned and ran in the house. He gave a small chase than realized she lived there. The door was unlocked so she did not have to fumble with keys. Otherwise it could have been bad. on countless occasions cars pull over while she is walking with the typical hey baby how you doooen.. A week ago as she was walking and man on the other side of the street spotted her and started yelling to her hey baby you look good, come over here she ignored him but he actual started a full run towards her across the street she yelled im calling the cops and started to run with the phone to her head. at that point he turned and "RAN" in the opposite direction.The same week some guy pulled over and tried to get her to get in his car..

So back to the gun. She knows how to handle a gun she has several of her own but none are concealable or this light.
we are also in an area with a lot of kids. So my question is will a subsonic round in a .38 with the rite bullet work well without having to worry about the bullet going through a target and hurting some one. suggestions on loads and bullets would be helpful

 

[chongoMT]

Re: smith & wesson titanium

It is horrible that you and your family have such worries. A couple things come to mind after reading this. First, if she intends to carry a weapon for defense you need defensive ammo. Subsonic ammo from a small .38 probably has about the energy of strong slingshot. Second, if its becoming more of a safety issue to be out and about, buy a handgun, training and a treadmill. I hope this helps and good luck.

 

[eli polite]

Re: smith & wesson titanium

we have hydra shock is there a risk of the bullet going through and causing collateral damage? are there better choices.

i have herd of glaser blue but never used them and don't know much about them.

 

[turbo54]

Re: smith & wesson titanium

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: epdesign</div><div class="ubbcode-body">we have hydra shock is there a risk of the bullet going through and causing collateral damage? are there better choices.

i have herd of glaser blue but never used them and don't know much about them. </div></div>

+1 on the Glasers. Unofficial milk jug testing with them vs +p hollow point ammo shows they dump their energy RFN when they hit something. I've never seen another pistol round cause such a fantastic response from a milk jug - even 180 JHPs @ 1450 from my 10mm.

So sorry to hear of your/your wifes troubles!

Make sure she gets LOTS of practice behind that pistol, they are great, reliable guns, but a bit of a handful. I got my Fiancée a SW642 with the ported barrel. She's no stranger to handguns (runs a G19 mighty nice), but that 642 was trouble for her at first - even with standard 38spl ammo (not +p).

The latch was biting her thumb knuckle, and she was really anticipating the shot. I bought an old flat-latch piece, generously radiused the corners, and loaded a bunch of 90gr @ 800fps ammo with trailboss for her. After several sessions, she really had the hang of it. Moved up to standard 38spl ammo, and it went well. 38+p is still too abrupt for her, but she manages.

I hope everything goes well for you two - can you move?

 

[Veer_G]

Re: smith & wesson titanium

To the OP:

One of the issues with ultra-light (read: titanium), short revolvers is that, while they're a whiz to cart around on the waist, they don't do enough to slow down the effects of recoil. That makes for less desire on the part of slight shooters to put up with the abuse during practice. They also have short sight radii and minimal capacity. I'm not saying that this can't work, but I am saying that certain 9MMs could offer more capacity and comfort.

For your consideration, here's a page from TBOT: http://theboxotruth.com/docs/bot27.htm Note that 9MM, as tested, seems to penetrate less than the various .38 Special loads that they ran through the sample revolver. In mid-to-late spring and summer, penetration doesn't tend to be so much of an issue, as people are walking about lightly dressed. In late fall and winter, I wouldn't give up an inch of penetration whatsoever. Here's yet another consideration of the question: http://smith-wessonforum.com/ammo/215746-opinions-what-38-special-ammo-get.html

FWIW, I run a 3" S&W 65 K-frame (next size up from what you probably got her) with 125gr .357 Magnum Speer Gold Dots and el-cheapo Remington 125gr .38 Special +Ps. While you might not want to subject her to .357 Magnum, bumping up the size of the frame slightly and running decent .38 Special ammo would serve to attenuate the recoil a little better.

As to your concern with over-penetration, training helps to make shooters more consistently hit their targets and select (if possible) an appropriate line with the least amount of possible downrange issues possible. If it's a matter of her safety, that has to come first. Good luck with your decision.

 

[hrfunk]

Re: smith & wesson titanium

Years ago, over-penetration was the issue of the day in police circles. That concern had a little merit as the standard round-nose bullets used at the time had a reputation for doing just that. To help alleviate the problem, ammunition companies have spent the last half century developing bullets that will provide adequate penetration but still minimize the possibility of over penetration. The purpose of the hollow-point design in its various incarnations is two-fold. 1) the increased diameter of the bullets contacts more tissue for a more efficient wounding effect, and 2) it acts like a tiny parachute to increase drag and reduce the potential for over-penetration. A great deal of science and technology have gone into the development of bullets that will strike the most efficient balance between these two factors. Currently, there are many good choices out there. Speer makes a 135 gr .38 Special load specifically for 2" revolvers. It is my current carry load and I would reccomend it for you wife.

HRF

 

[eli polite]

Re: smith & wesson titanium

My wife is no stranger to guns she currently has an AR15. Several ..22 rifles and pistols including a walther p22 and a 1911 .45. None of them at suteted for her to carry. I talkid to the town cops about her doing an open carry with her 1911 they weren't apposed to it but it may draw to much attention and may actually give a b ad guy the advantage..I am verry familiar with th .38 I shot a 6" k frame for years in copition but never shot any thing out of it other than wad cutters.

We went back and forth between the .38 and the Kimberly SOLO. And she decided on the revolver. My thought and hers is if it comes down to having to pull the trigger recoil won't be an issue. And in all reality it will be within feet or contact with the assailant. The REAL practic is in drawing the weapon in a struggle and in high stress. So we will work on that. We both have conciled permits.

Do the .38rounds even get a complete burn in a 2" or 3" barrel ?

 

[former naval person]

Re: smith & wesson titanium

You know, I've never seen any valid statistics on the actual wounding or killing of bystanders by an overpenetrated round. Most of the LEO collateral damage has been done by missing the target. Practice on hitting the target, especially at the ranges you describe, and I doubt she would ever show up in the "overpenetration" statistics. I like the hard cast double ended wadcutter loaded hot over Universal. It penetrates straight, cuts a clean hole and the Universal is low flash. JMHO

 

[Veer_G]

Re: smith & wesson titanium

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: former naval person</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I like the hard cast double ended wadcutter loaded hot over Universal. It penetrates straight, cuts a clean hole and the Universal is low flash. JMHO </div></div>

Check out Buffalo Bore for a commercially available hard-hitting approximation: http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=291

 

[longguntoter]

Re: smith & wesson titanium

I would go with a 110 grain JHP + P myself. The recoil, in that light Titanium gun would be stout, but if your scared you really don't notice recoil that much. That load would most certainly get some dick-bags attention.

 

[eli polite]

Re: smith & wesson titanium

Another question...

I'm about to do some research. but does any one know if my 15 year old daughter can legally carry..I would assume not

 

[Blue Line]

Re: smith & wesson titanium

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Veer_G</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To the OP:

One of the issues with ultra-light (read: titanium), short revolvers is that, while they're a whiz to cart around on the waist, they don't do enough to slow down the effects of recoil. That makes for less desire on the part of slight shooters to put up with the abuse during practice. They also have short sight radii and minimal capacity. I'm not saying that this can't work, but I am saying that certain 9MMs could offer more capacity and comfort.

For your consideration, here's a page from TBOT: http://theboxotruth.com/docs/bot27.htm Note that 9MM, as tested, seems to penetrate less than the various .38 Special loads that they ran through the sample revolver. In mid-to-late spring and summer, penetration doesn't tend to be so much of an issue, as people are walking about lightly dressed. In late fall and winter, I wouldn't give up an inch of penetration whatsoever. Here's yet another consideration of the question: http://smith-wessonforum.com/ammo/215746-opinions-what-38-special-ammo-get.html

FWIW, I run a 3" S&W 65 K-frame (next size up from what you probably got her) with 125gr .357 Magnum Speer Gold Dots and el-cheapo Remington 125gr .38 Special +Ps. While you might not want to subject her to .357 Magnum, bumping up the size of the frame slightly and running decent .38 Special ammo would serve to attenuate the recoil a little better.

As to your concern with over-penetration, training helps to make shooters more consistently hit their targets and select (if possible) an appropriate line with the least amount of possible downrange issues possible. If it's a matter of her safety, that has to come first. Good luck with your decision.

</div></div>


+1 well said!

 

[E. Bryant]

Re: smith & wesson titanium

Sorry for bumping this week-old thread, but it's a slow Saturday morning. A few thoughts:

1) The OP did good by choosing something that his wife will actually carry daily. Many folks want to believe that anything short of a double-stack .45 is inadequate, while forgetting that the first rule is "have a gun". If it's not comfortable to carry, then it eventually will be left at the house or in the car when it's most needed.

2) In almost any self-defense caliber - especially the weaker ones such as .38SPL - it seems that <span style="font-style: italic">under</span>penetration is the predominate concern. As stated by Dr. Gary Roberts:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In short, the consequences of projectile under-penetration are far more likely to get officers and citizens killed than over-penetration issues.</div></div>

http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?4331-The-Presumptive-Hazards-of-Over-Penetration

With that in mind, I would not be looking at any gee-whiz fragmenting rounds (not to mention that the cost of such rounds is usually prohibitive), despite the fact that they are usually good at making awesome YouTube videos when shot into water-filled plastic jugs. The performance of such rounds is a odds with the modern theories of low-velocity wounding mechanisms, and winter clothing can greatly reduce their performance. Get a good hollowpoint load that will reliably expand when fired from a short barrel. Additional thoughts on this can be found here:

http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?4336-BUG-s-380-ACP-vs-38-Sp

3) Training is going to trump the choice of gear or ammo, and I'm not simply talking about marksmanship training. Find someone who teaches a proper self-defense course that hopefully focuses on the skills required to identify potential risks and stay out of a fight.

Oh, and to the OP - lock your front door! Sure, an unlocked door worked in your wife's favor in that one situation, but this isn't good justification. We had a situation several years ago where a locked door prevented a neighbor's domestic dispute from turning into a possible standoff in our home.

 

[SMH]

Re: smith & wesson titanium

I have the SW Ti 38/357 (340PD)
It is easy to carry and low maintenance but it is not a user friendly piece to shoot.

I like the Speer Gold Dot 135 JHPs but I honestly doubt that the load will matter.
I assume if someone pursues your wife they are not looking for monetary gains from a robbery. While she might like to plant them on the spot, she only needs to make them break pursuit.

Any load in any caliber has a good chance of doing that.
The challenge is gaining access to the firearm in an expedient manner. Practice, practice, practice and practice some more.

Does she run predictably similar routes every time? Do you know what route she is taking every time? Take the path(s) together to identify likely ambush points or unusually secluded areas.
Hopefully she does not listen to music while running. Hearing threats is just as important as seeing them.

I would also suggest adding a small Mace or Pepper spray canister. It could be carried "in hand" at all times without being noticeable. It might buy her more time for and or eliminate the need for drawing the firearm. It also shows a gradual escalation of force rather then immediately going lethal.
I would also add a small push dagger or a one hand opening knife.(but I also make custom knives so maybe I am a bit biased here)

Self Defense training is great and I would strongly suggest it to anyone, but it is often overrated. A blackbelt without a good fighting attitude and situational awareness is an easy target, a novice that is tuned in and turned on is not.

Best of luck with your scenario. I would encourage my wife to stay on the treadmill but I understand that some women would never accept that as a solution.

 

[eli polite]

Re: smith & wesson titanium

the door is locked almost all the time it always has been I honestly don't know why it was unlocked in that particular incident. i wish we had more self deference class options but unfortunately we don't in our area.

as far as her path she walks several different routs and randomly but all of the incidents were a cause of blind opportunity that's whats rely scary.. thanks for all the suggestions. i appreciate it

 

[former naval person]

Re: smith & wesson titanium

Sorry for your predicament. The bullet as illustrated is the Lyman 358156. It is a semi-wadcutter gas-checked bullet. I have cast and shot many thousands since 1960. A very easy to cast and a very hard,clean cutting bullet. Use Linotype, a decent lube, and it is very accurate and will cut a clean hole through people, places and things. Including heart, head, spine and anything else in the way. It will work with a good lube and the gas check up to 1600+ fps in a big .357 maggie. If you have complete penetration and stoppage of the threat...over penetration is probably the last legal problem you will face in that confrontation. JMHO

 

[Miles2go]

Re: smith & wesson titanium

Listen, get the hardest hitting, over-penetrating SOB you can run in that thing. In a "someone is kidnapping my wife" scenario, the absolute last thing you should worry about is the 1 in a bazillion chance of hitting an innocent with a pass-through! Get that out of your mind and get the best performer. And heck yes the type of bullet and velocity matters. Gold dot bullets have very controlled and reliable expansion in the tests I've seen.

But the bigger picture here is you are allowing you wife to participate in a high-risk behaviour. If that was my wife, who is of similar description, I would encourage her to drive to a gym or walk in a group. Having your wife harassed is Bullshit. You need to fix that.