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Body Armor

K

kifeter

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
May 23, 2012
12
0
35
Hi guys,

I wanted to know what you guys are using for body armor? I have been looking into it and I cant seem to find exactly what I want. I am specifically looking for something in level III and better to stop up to aks and ar15s.

From what I've seen, the materials are:
Steel
Ceramic
Polyethylene
Dyneema

I prefer staying away from steel due to weight and away from ceramic for there durability. Please let me know what you use and why. I would appreciate any links to info.

Thanks
 
Re: Body Armor

Steel: thinnest, most durable plates, but heavy and definitely want IIIa spall protection

Ceramic: lots of options here, usually twice as thick as steel but can't be tossed around like steel - most are in-conjuction, requiring IIIa panels between you and the plate. Some are stand-alone rated - weight varies; lightest are most expensive

Polyethylene: lightest non-steel plates, but usually the thickest and commonly made in simple square/rectangle shapes with slight curve (ceramics have better shape options). Fewer protective level options

Dyneema: I don't think anyone makes plates with these - more common as a lighter IIIa soft panel option than kevlar.
 
Re: Body Armor

Either that or a Mall Ninja....

It's some 12 year old kid who just got finished playing Call of Duty: Modern Warfare.



MallNinja.jpg
 
Re: Body Armor

If you are being serious and not a mall ninja... check Turtleskin out.
 
Re: Body Armor

I wasn't aware of the amount of douche bags on this site. Are you guys at that age where your teething and your momys dont want to give you any milk?

Thank you dogtown for the only serious answer.
 
Re: Body Armor

Thanks for that helpful bit of information FoceM. Now, please show your wisdom in another thread.
 
Re: Body Armor

Now, I was mainly looking into stand alone plates for a vest. I am mostly interested in polyethylene due to its weight. Does anyone know of any respectable dealers or brands for these?
 
Re: Body Armor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kifeter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wasn't aware of the amount of douche bags on this site. Are you guys at that age where your teething and your momys dont want to give you any milk?

Thank you dogtown for the only serious answer. </div></div>

I'm thinking troll.
1300229809224-1.jpg
 
Re: Body Armor

give the guy a break. body armor is something no one thinks they need until you need it. sure its a tiny, tiny chance youll ever need it but hey if youve got a mountain of money why not have it around? ill probably never have any but im a cheap bastard. as far as type i don't know, steel or ceramic depends on the bulk and weight you want.
 
Re: Body Armor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you are being serious and not a mall ninja... check Turtleskin out. </div></div>

TMNT-Teenage-Mutant-Ninja-Turtles-movie-live-action-1.jpg
 
Re: Body Armor

Kifeter: you come into a very specialized group of people, many of whom do this as a living and or shoot for sporting purposes. Those who have the most knowledge about the subject you are seeking want to know why you need to know first. You show up with no info, and then get bent out of shape when your not spoon fed what you want, your chances of getting the info out of people whom the govt, and other organizations have spent big bucks on is slim.Good luck, and the first layer of protection your going to need is a thicker skin. Jeff
 
Re: Body Armor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: persistant7500</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Kifeter: you come into a very specialized group of people, many of whom do this as a living and or shoot for sporting purposes. Those who have the most knowledge about the subject you are seeking want to know why you need to know first. You show up with no info, and then get bent out of shape when your not spoon fed what you want, your chances of getting the info out of people whom the govt, and other organizations have spent big bucks on is slim.Good luck, and the first layer of protection your going to need is a thicker skin. Jeff </div></div>

He's also asking questions of others that actually do rely on body armor on a daily basis for self preservation as a part of their work equipment. A professional wouldn't have put AR15 and AK47 in the same group as your talking 2 completely different rifles with 2 completely different ballistics which also brings to question their knowledge of even firearms...
 
Re: Body Armor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: persistant7500</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Kifeter: you come into a very specialized group of people, many of whom do this as a living and or shoot for sporting purposes. Those who have the most knowledge about the subject you are seeking want to know why you need to know first. You show up with no info, and then get bent out of shape when your not spoon fed what you want, your chances of getting the info out of people whom the govt, and other organizations have spent big bucks on is slim.Good luck, and the first layer of protection your going to need is a thicker skin. Jeff </div></div>

He's also asking questions of others that actually do rely on body armor on a daily basis for self preservation as a part of their work equipment. A professional wouldn't have put AR15 and AK47 in the same group as your talking 2 completely different rifles with 2 completely different ballistics which also brings to question their knowledge of even firearms... </div></div>

Not the mention the fact that anyone working for a private contractor would already have an 'approved vendor', and not even be asking this question.

Furthermore, any government employee requiring body armor would already have the vendors available as well.

These companies aren't going to be telling who their vendors are in a public forum for obvious security reasons.

I call troll. Especially since he spouted off at the mouth, and came back for more. No one posts something like this on their first post without being completely full of bullshit!

If I am wrong, and he isn't a troll then I say 'Google is your friend'. You won't get anyone who uses serious body armor to spill the beans on their supplier. After all ... the first line of defense is silence.
 
Re: Body Armor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tmckay2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">give the guy a break. body armor is something no one thinks they need until you need it. </div></div>

Unless he lives in a high conflict area he never WILL need it. After all the best method of survival in an urban conflict situation is the ability to remain mobile. If you have body armor then you are slowing yourself down.

IN an urban situation you want to remain out of sight and unnoticed. The last thing you want to do is stand and fight simply because you have body armor ! In the wrong hands it can give people a false sense of security and cause them to make stupid decisions.
 
Re: Body Armor

I see no reason to be a dick to guys I've never met. If you own the site, feel free to run off whoever you want. If you don't, probably best to shut the man pleaser. He did loose a few style points for cryin about it though.

Rooster I think your advice is good but too narrow. There are valid reasons for people to want body armor. For instance there are lots of people who think we are heading towards an economic collapse/depression that is likely to make the high population areas a lot less safe than they are now. A trip to get food/gas/whatever is likely to be more dangerous in those conditions than the average patrol shift is now. Look up what happened in Argentina around 2001 when they printed way too many pesos and crashed their currency. It doesn't have to be armageddon for something like body armor to be useful.

Maybe he isnt as mobile as most for some reason, or has people to protect that aren't very mobile. Maybe he has a very specific threat in mind that has nothing to do with society at large. Maybe its none of our business and since its a legal product, he went to a place with a reputation for a lot of knowledge. You can always just ignore him right?
 
Re: Body Armor

I don't have anything to add to the suppliers question. But as far as why a civilian, non-security type person might want some, I can add a reason...

A few of the EMTs in my town have added some light vests to their turn out gear after having a few local calls for people flipping the shit out on bath salts and biting/stabbing/hurting anyone they can reach including the police and EMTs responding.

Some people are worried and/or cautious.
 
Re: Body Armor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RoosterShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tmckay2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">give the guy a break. body armor is something no one thinks they need until you need it. </div></div>

Unless he lives in a high conflict area he never WILL need it. After all the best method of survival in an urban conflict situation is the ability to remain mobile. If you have body armor then you are slowing yourself down.

IN an urban situation you want to remain out of sight and unnoticed. The last thing you want to do is stand and fight simply because you have body armor ! In the wrong hands it can give people a false sense of security and cause them to make stupid decisions. </div></div>

oh you can predict the future huh? do tell. what if the government collapses? what if terrorists implement an organized plan in your city? what if a bunch of gang bangers tries to break into your house and youve got the time to strap up? jesus, theres a thousand possible scenarios it could be nice to have it around, it doesn't mean you have to wear it down to the super market. all of the scenarios are extremely unlikely, but if youve got the coin why the hell not. i bet all of us here have some kind of crap lying around we likely won't need to never hurts to have. shoot, i think every shooter should have combat gauze around incase of a bullet wound. you know how many of us will likely ever have to use it? about 0.0001%. but i bet the guy that accidentally shot his friend near where i live out in the boonies sure wished he had it. his friend might be alive today.

another example. i always carry a pistol when i go backpacking incase of bears or mountain lions. do you have any idea out of all of the backpackers how many actually come across a bear let alone an aggressive one? extreme tiny amount. but i bet the guy who almost lost his leg in aspen last year sure wishes he had one.

id rather not be a statistic and be over prepared than under prepared. yes, body armor is a bit extreme for me so i likely won't ever buy it, but i have countless other "prepper" type supplies and shooter supplies that i probably will never need.

you have to walk on egg shells around here anymore, its almost as bad as ar15.com. if you ask the wrong question, or its too detailed, or not detailed enough, or you didn't search enough, or you didn't use google enough, or the question was asked five years ago, or "youre not an oeprator so let me tell you like it is", or you don't spend enough on your gear, or its not a high end brand so your question sucks, whatever the case may be, half the threads these days are people bitching about the type of question asked. if you don't like the question shut your mouth and don't post in the thread. someone here might actually want to help. just because you don't doesn't make it any less of a valid thread.
 
Re: Body Armor

I have a set of "knight's armor" laying around. It has been laying in the closet for ten years too. Still, nice to have it, but hope I never ever have to wear that shit again. I agree, you aren't getting far in it, esepcially that shit, it weighs 50lbs easy all together. Armor works best for those working in units anyway.

Chances are you'd know the type of armor if you really needed it, so I won't go into detail. The info is out there if you want it though.

Only advice I will give you is this: start fucking running now, because if you wear it, it will slow you down and wear you out, and if you don't wear it you will need to be fast to get the fuck out of Dodge. Moral? Just run.

Me? I can't, I'm broken, I'm the hero in the movie that holds the door open and fends off the zombies long enough for you and your family to escape, so I need the shit. Unless you wanna be that person, save the bucks and use it on ammo instead.

Welcome to SH, and yes, you are gonna need a thick skin with this bunch. If you are picking brains, then you would be best served here on this site to ask how most of these guys shoot. That they'll share.
 
Re: Body Armor

I ALWAYS wear a set of Second Chance Armor w/ plates when I'm at the Range.....but then again I live in South S.A. surrounded by a bunch of gangbangers who sometimes amass on the range to practice their " Skillzzz "
Don't realy care to be taken out by one of these clowns due to an accidental discharge or while 2 rival gangs decide to go at it during practice day ...
 
Re: Body Armor

For what it's worth, USpalm sells a line of inexpensive body armor products geared towards civilians. I've seen some of the products in person and they look nice.
 
Re: Body Armor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tmckay2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RoosterShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tmckay2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">give the guy a break. body armor is something no one thinks they need until you need it. </div></div>

Unless he lives in a high conflict area he never WILL need it. After all the best method of survival in an urban conflict situation is the ability to remain mobile. If you have body armor then you are slowing yourself down.

IN an urban situation you want to remain out of sight and unnoticed. The last thing you want to do is stand and fight simply because you have body armor ! In the wrong hands it can give people a false sense of security and cause them to make stupid decisions. </div></div>

oh you can predict the future huh? do tell. what if the government collapses? what if terrorists implement an organized plan in your city? what if a bunch of gang bangers tries to break into your house and youve got the time to strap up? jesus, theres a thousand possible scenarios it could be nice to have it around, it doesn't mean you have to wear it down to the super market. all of the scenarios are extremely unlikely, but if youve got the coin why the hell not. i bet all of us here have some kind of crap lying around we likely won't need to never hurts to have. shoot, i think every shooter should have combat gauze around incase of a bullet wound. you know how many of us will likely ever have to use it? about 0.0001%. but i bet the guy that accidentally shot his friend near where i live out in the boonies sure wished he had it. his friend might be alive today.

another example. i always carry a pistol when i go backpacking incase of bears or mountain lions. do you have any idea out of all of the backpackers how many actually come across a bear let alone an aggressive one? extreme tiny amount. but i bet the guy who almost lost his leg in aspen last year sure wishes he had one. </div></div>

If you have gang bangers staging at your door en masse and somehow have time to "strap up" you are better off going out the back and calling 911 than pulling out body Armor and a cape to play Johnny Tactical.

Carrying a gun because of dangerous wildlife or gauze at a range make sense. Making an burger on the grill in a tactical vest with rifle plates, not so much. Given that he could be said gang banger I don't see it as an unreasonable question to pose as to what he plans to use it for.

Unless he is military or public safety its going to cost more, weigh more, and be far more uncomfortable than his chances of running into a gang of armed mountain lions while backpacking on vacation dictate. If he is military or public safety, to include ems and fire, he should get himself verified access to that part of the Site and ask there. I'd be more than happy to help.
 
Re: Body Armor

Here we go again. If your not a cop you don't need it. Why is that LEO's seem to always say what civilians need and don't need. Get a badge on your chest and I guess you can just start telling people what to do.

These forums are so people can have intelligent discussion about our interests. Not so we can question why others want or need something. If ya want to help the OP with some info great. If not stay out of his thread.

Sorry for the hijack OP.
 
Re: Body Armor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 78steeler</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here we go again. If your not a cop you don't need it. Why is that LEO's seem to always say what civilians need and don't need. Get a badge on your chest and I guess you can just start telling people what to do.

These forums are so people can have intelligent discussion about our interests. Not so we can question why others want or need something. If ya want to help the OP with some info great. If not stay out of his thread.

Sorry for the hijack OP. </div></div>

If you want it just to have it, say that, you will get far more help than concocting some hollywood nonsensical scenario that would warrant you strapping on armor and weapons like in the movies. I don't care what you spend your money on. However, this is a website catering to long range tactical marksmanship. This isn't tin foil body armor.com

We're talking about rifle plates for God's sake. Walk me through the scenario you envision yourself needing that. As opposed to, say, a question regarding what range finder works in competition. Or which one holds up to abuse in the field because I'm getting ready to deploy, etc.
 
Re: Body Armor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RoosterShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: persistant7500</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Kifeter: you come into a very specialized group of people, many of whom do this as a living and or shoot for sporting purposes. Those who have the most knowledge about the subject you are seeking want to know why you need to know first. You show up with no info, and then get bent out of shape when your not spoon fed what you want, your chances of getting the info out of people whom the govt, and other organizations have spent big bucks on is slim.Good luck, and the first layer of protection your going to need is a thicker skin. Jeff </div></div>

He's also asking questions of others that actually do rely on body armor on a daily basis for self preservation as a part of their work equipment. A professional wouldn't have put AR15 and AK47 in the same group as your talking 2 completely different rifles with 2 completely different ballistics which also brings to question their knowledge of even firearms... </div></div>

Not the mention the fact that anyone working for a private contractor would already have an 'approved vendor', and not even be asking this question.

Furthermore, any government employee requiring body armor would already have the vendors available as well.

These companies aren't going to be telling who their vendors are in a public forum for obvious security reasons.

I call troll. Especially since he spouted off at the mouth, and came back for more. No one posts something like this on their first post without being completely full of bullshit!

If I am wrong, and he isn't a troll then I say 'Google is your friend'. You won't get anyone who uses serious body armor to spill the beans on their supplier. After all ... the first line of defense is silence. </div></div>
I am not sure if you consider yourself one of those that "actually do rely on body armor on a daily basis for self preservation" , but I know I never mentioned an AR15 and an AK47 having the same ballistics. Are you trying to say that there is no such body armor that protects against both rounds? I am looking for something that would protect against both rounds, not saying that they are both the same.

I do not live in an area of high conflict, I actually doubt that I will ever use it, but I don't see a reason in not getting it? Can you please tell me the negatives to owning a set? Money aside, I've spent much more on less.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: txgw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you want body armor that heavy, join the military. </div></div>
I said I wanted body armor that heavy, I never said I wanted the need to use it.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LawnMM</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 78steeler</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here we go again. If your not a cop you don't need it. Why is that LEO's seem to always say what civilians need and don't need. Get a badge on your chest and I guess you can just start telling people what to do.

These forums are so people can have intelligent discussion about our interests. Not so we can question why others want or need something. If ya want to help the OP with some info great. If not stay out of his thread.

Sorry for the hijack OP. </div></div>

If you want it just to have it, say that, you will get far more help than concocting some hollywood nonsensical scenario that would warrant you strapping on armor and weapons like in the movies. I don't care what you spend your money on. However, this is a website catering to long range tactical marksmanship. This isn't tin foil body armor.com

We're talking about rifle plates for God's sake. Walk me through the scenario you envision yourself needing that. As opposed to, say, a question regarding what range finder works in competition. Or which one holds up to abuse in the field because I'm getting ready to deploy, etc. </div></div>

I am not sure what hollywood scenario you are referring to.

The reason I am looking into purchasing a set is for protection. Do I plan on using it every day? No. I will most likely never use it, but I don't see the negatives to having it. I live in FL and my main concern if for hurricane season. During Hurricane Andrew, things got a bit ugly. Yes, this did happen a while back, but it could happen again and I don't see anything wrong with staying safe.

I was just looking for a few decent brands to look into. I've seen a bit online but how am I supposed to know whether what there claims are fact or fiction.

I was just asking an honest simple question, I wasn't aware of the amount of secrecy around the subject.


 
Re: Body Armor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tmckay2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

oh you can predict the future huh? do tell. what if the government collapses? what if terrorists implement an organized plan in your city? what if a bunch of gang bangers tries to break into your house and youve got the time to strap up? jesus, theres a thousand possible scenarios it could be nice to have it around, it doesn't mean you have to wear it down to the super market. </div></div>

Wow !!!

I have one thing to say to that post. Reminds me of the ramblings of someone off of their meds.
laugh.gif


tinfoilhat.jpg



I'm going to go on the record as saying this ...

Maybe there should be a forum designated to 'Doomsdayers and Preppers' so the rest of us, with real life / realistic situations can freely post on the rest of the forum without clouding up serious topics with these ramblings.
 
Re: Body Armor


ill go on the record as saying people should read the stickies on the forum, especially the one titled "don't attack new posters". unless you have reading comprehension issues. like was stated, if you don't like his thread or think its stupid or a waste of time or whatever, then don't freaking post in it. how hard is that? he isn't ruining your day by posting a thread you think its worthless.

for the record, the scenarios i listed were mostly in jest. but the truth that lies in them is that we never know whats going to happen. he didn't say he needed to get plates so he can go shop at walmart. if the man wants some plates then damn it its a free country and he can get some plates. will he ever need them? really fat chance but so what, i am sure he knows that he doesn't need people shitting on his thread just because they don't approve.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RoosterShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tmckay2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

oh you can predict the future huh? do tell. what if the government collapses? what if terrorists implement an organized plan in your city? what if a bunch of gang bangers tries to break into your house and youve got the time to strap up? jesus, theres a thousand possible scenarios it could be nice to have it around, it doesn't mean you have to wear it down to the super market. </div></div>

Wow !!!

I have one thing to say to that post. Reminds me of the ramblings of someone off of their meds.
laugh.gif


file.php



I'm going to go on the record as saying this ...

Maybe there should be a forum designated to 'Doomsdayers and Preppers' so the rest of us, with real life / realistic situations can freely post on the rest of the forum without clouding up serious topics with these ramblings. </div></div>
 
Re: Body Armor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RoosterShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: persistant7500</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Kifeter: you come into a very specialized group of people, many of whom do this as a living and or shoot for sporting purposes. Those who have the most knowledge about the subject you are seeking want to know why you need to know first. You show up with no info, and then get bent out of shape when your not spoon fed what you want, your chances of getting the info out of people whom the govt, and other organizations have spent big bucks on is slim.Good luck, and the first layer of protection your going to need is a thicker skin. Jeff </div></div>

He's also asking questions of others that actually do rely on body armor on a daily basis for self preservation as a part of their work equipment. A professional wouldn't have put AR15 and AK47 in the same group as your talking 2 completely different rifles with 2 completely different ballistics which also brings to question their knowledge of even firearms... </div></div>

Not the mention the fact that anyone working for a private contractor would already have an 'approved vendor', and not even be asking this question.

Furthermore, any government employee requiring body armor would already have the vendors available as well.

These companies aren't going to be telling who their vendors are in a public forum for obvious security reasons.

I call troll. Especially since he spouted off at the mouth, and came back for more. No one posts something like this on their first post without being completely full of bullshit!

<span style="text-decoration: underline">If I am wrong, and he isn't a troll then I say 'Google is your friend'. You won't get anyone who uses serious body armor to spill the beans on their supplier. After all ... the first line of defense is silence. </span> </div></div>

um.....what?
 
Re: Body Armor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kifeter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I know I never mentioned an AR15 and an AK47 having the same ballistics. Are you trying to say that there is no such body armor that protects against both rounds? I am looking for something that would protect against both rounds, not saying that they are both the same.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kifeter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hi guys,
I am specifically looking for something in level III and better to stop up to aks and ar15s. </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A professional wouldn't have put AR15 and AK47 in the same group as your talking 2 completely different rifles with 2 completely different ballistics which also brings to question their knowledge of even firearms... </div></div>
<span style="color: #FF0000">No one ever said you did mention both having the same ballistics, but most people that are concerned with body armor purchase depending on level of protection needed which has everything to do with ballistics, so actually read what was said...</span>


The reason I am looking into purchasing a set is for protection. Do I plan on using it every day? No. I will most likely never use it, but I don't see the negatives to having it. I live in FL and my main concern if for hurricane season. During Hurricane Andrew, things got a bit ugly. Yes, this did happen a while back, but it could happen again and I don't see anything wrong with staying safe.

<span style="color: #FF0000">I don't recall there ever being mass rioting by heavily armed people shooting and killing civilians in Florida and I don't ever recall a time of any major Natural Disaster here in the US where the rioters were running around with "aks and r15s". Actually if you're strapped up and carrying during a time of mass disturbance LEO is more likely to take you as a threat than the rioters. </span>
</div></div>
 
Re: Body Armor

Forgot Katrina already huh? Some police services ended up buying armored vehicles after that, and for good reason. Funny how short people's memories are.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kifeter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I know I never mentioned an AR15 and an AK47 having the same ballistics. Are you trying to say that there is no such body armor that protects against both rounds? I am looking for something that would protect against both rounds, not saying that they are both the same.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kifeter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hi guys,
I am specifically looking for something in level III and better to stop up to aks and ar15s. </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A professional wouldn't have put AR15 and AK47 in the same group as your talking 2 completely different rifles with 2 completely different ballistics which also brings to question their knowledge of even firearms... </div></div>
<span style="color: #FF0000">No one ever said you did mention both having the same ballistics, but most people that are concerned with body armor purchase depending on level of protection needed which has everything to do with ballistics, so actually read what was said...</span>


The reason I am looking into purchasing a set is for protection. Do I plan on using it every day? No. I will most likely never use it, but I don't see the negatives to having it. I live in FL and my main concern if for hurricane season. During Hurricane Andrew, things got a bit ugly. Yes, this did happen a while back, but it could happen again and I don't see anything wrong with staying safe.

<span style="color: #FF0000">I don't recall there ever being mass rioting by heavily armed people shooting and killing civilians in Florida and I don't ever recall a time of any major Natural Disaster here in the US where the rioters were running around with "aks and r15s". Actually if you're strapped up and carrying during a time of mass disturbance LEO is more likely to take you as a threat than the rioters. </span>
</div></div> </div></div>
 
Re: Body Armor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tmckay2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Forgot Katrina already huh? Some police services ended up buying armored vehicles after that, and for good reason. Funny how short people's memories are.
</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kifeter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The reason I am looking into purchasing a set is for protection. Do I plan on using it every day? No. I will most likely never use it, but I don't see the negatives to having it. <span style="font-weight: bold">I live in FL and my main concern if for hurricane season. During Hurricane Andrew, things got a bit ugly.</span> Yes, this did happen a while back, but it could happen again and I don't see anything wrong with staying safe.
</div></div>

Do you need a geography lesson? My memory isn't short. He said he lived in Florida and Hurricane Andrew, not Louisiana and Katrina. The places that had severe rioting and breakdowns in services were not even in his state. He's not LEO either. And perhaps you can cite an instance in the Katrina aftermath where it involved civilians with AR15's or AK's targeting other civilians?
 
Re: Body Armor

Just my 2*
I have 4 ..yes 4 sets of carriers and plates....why because I can ! If anything they are an investment bought cheap that I may be able to flip for a substantial gain or trade for other goods .
Take a look at Society today , ever see the chaos at Wal Mart when the computers go down and you cant even make a cash purchase / or get Fuel ?? IF we see a large scale blackout across the grid for a significant time ( natural disaster or etc... ) where the average welfare recipient ( bottom feeders & lowlifes ) can no longer cash in on the freebies , they will start to look at what they can take from those that do have something they want. ...It may come in handy at a time like this ....granted , it may never happen but Katrina was a small isolated reminder , how bad would have things gotten if this was state ( or States )wide
 
Re: Body Armor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tmckay2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
ill go on the record as saying people should read the stickies on the forum, especially the one titled "don't attack new posters". unless you have reading comprehension issues. </div></div>


I'm sorry, but joking about someone being a troll and attacking them are two different things.

Attacking someone is saying" You're a dumbass because you believe the world is going to end anytime soon!" That's a personal attack.


Calling someone a troll and joking around about it isn't attacking someone.
 
Re: Body Armor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LawnMM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
If you want it just to have it, say that, you will get far more help than concocting some hollywood nonsensical scenario that would warrant you strapping on armor and weapons like in the movies. I don't care what you spend your money on. However, this is a website catering to long range tactical marksmanship. This isn't tin foil body armor.com

We're talking about rifle plates for God's sake. Walk me through the scenario you envision yourself needing that. As opposed to, say, a question regarding what range finder works in competition. Or which one holds up to abuse in the field because I'm getting ready to deploy, etc. </div></div>


If this site is only for longrange marksmanship, then why the shotgun area? Or pistol/knife area? Who are you to tell people what they do or do not need? He didn't ask if he needed it. Do you need a custom rifle to punch paper and never compete? Then why do so many non comp. Shooters buy them?

Whether or not he needs it is moot. He wants it, has obviously done SOME research, and was left with questions, which is why he came here. Maybe there are others who wanted the same info, but didn't want to get the SH treatment by asking.

And maybe, just maybe, he wanted SOUND ADVISE. Do you think hell get that at tinfoilhatarmegeddeon.com? Or even arf.com?

Last time I checked this was still America, and if we want the gear the military uses, by God we have the right to own it. I'm tired of people saying civies shouldn't own x or y because they don't need it. That's the totalitarian nanny state talking. The founders wanted us to have the same equipment as the govt. Because they saw that there may come a day when totalitarians would turn on the people.

And unless you've been hiding in a cave, guess what the last 100 years of baby steps have brought? Communism always starts with massive genocide, Cuba, Russia, China, pol pot, etc., and what kind of people do you think the occupiers are? They openly call for violence. If I had to walk into a business on wall street, I'd probably want daily rifle plates.......especially if I worked for AIG or Goldman......

The central global leaders are purposely crashing the economic system to restart a new type of global currency, either gold backed, digital, or who knows. What scenarios do you envision nationwide if this occurs? And why rely on the cops or army? During Katrina, the cops TOOK LEGAL WEAPONS FROM LAW ABIDING CITIZENS, while the looters were armed. 1,000 to 1,500 weapons were confiscated.

I'm sorry, but I rely on no one to protect me and mine! Sorry, I rely on one, but he is no mere man......

Call me crazy all you want. Noah built an ark for hundreds of years while people ridiculed him. Then one day it started to rain.......

But should he even have to suggest doomsday scenarios to get sound advice? What if I want one just for the sake of wanting one and nothing else? Does that proclude me from sound advice? What if I want one cause I am a mall ninja? I've seen PLENTY on this site, it is not the "holy grail of snipers", and if it is, why all the mall ninjas?

Edit: I'm very glad this sit is here, and many thanks to those wonderful marksman and experienced people who give sound advice to the many of us "unwashed masses". I am very thankful to be able to glean very valuable info from this site, regardless of who I am, or how experienced I am.
 
Re: Body Armor

Ohhhh I see. It happened in Louisiana so clearly that means it can't happen in Florida. After all, they have completely different climates and are so far away from one another. Give me a break. There wereany documented accounts of looters taking what they wanted at gun point. There were some shown on tv with "assault weapons". To claim it can't happen in Florida, who has the same climate and natural disasters, when it just happened a handful of years ago in Louisiana makes you look like a baffoon. Accept it and move on.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tmckay2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Forgot Katrina already huh? Some police services ended up buying armored vehicles after that, and for good reason. Funny how short people's memories are.
</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kifeter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The reason I am looking into purchasing a set is for protection. Do I plan on using it every day? No. I will most likely never use it, but I don't see the negatives to having it. <span style="font-weight: bold">I live in FL and my main concern if for hurricane season. During Hurricane Andrew, things got a bit ugly.</span> Yes, this did happen a while back, but it could happen again and I don't see anything wrong with staying safe.
</div></div>

Do you need a geography lesson? My memory isn't short. He said he lived in Florida and Hurricane Andrew, not Louisiana and Katrina. The places that had severe rioting and breakdowns in services were not even in his state. He's not LEO either. And perhaps you can cite an instance in the Katrina aftermath where it involved civilians with AR15's or AK's targeting other civilians? </div></div>
 
Re: Body Armor

So wait, calling a guy names, claiming he shouldn't be taken serious, and in general ridiculing him for his thread isn't attacking? Wow. I guess it has to have threats of violence to be considered attacking. Pretty sure when I read the sticky it sounded like it was made for situations specifically like this. Perhaps you should read it as well.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RoosterShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tmckay2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
ill go on the record as saying people should read the stickies on the forum, especially the one titled "don't attack new posters". unless you have reading comprehension issues. </div></div>


I'm sorry, but joking about someone being a troll and attacking them are two different things.

Attacking someone is saying" You're a dumbass because you believe the world is going to end anytime soon!" That's a personal attack.


Calling someone a troll and joking around about it isn't attacking someone. </div></div>
 
Re: Body Armor

I agree it sure is easy to talk shit from a keyboard.
As for the OP sorry I have no useful info on this subject.
 
Re: Body Armor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tmckay2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ohhhh I see. It happened in Louisiana so clearly that means it can't happen in Florida. After all, they have completely different climates and are so far away from one another. Give me a break. There wereany documented accounts of looters taking what they wanted at gun point. There were some shown on tv with "assault weapons". To claim it can't happen in Florida, who has the same climate and natural disasters, when it just happened a handful of years ago in Louisiana makes you look like a baffoon. Accept it and move on.
</div></div>

Because we all know that a State who the majority of citizens are over the age of 55 or tourists is likely to be filled with "looters". Comparing Louisiana to Florida in terms of occupants is like comparing Haiti to Hawaii. And I call bullshit on your "assault weapons" seen on tv. Saying you saw them on tv is not citing a source other than your own imagination. But go ahead and hit the streets with your plate carrier/soft armor and rifle when the "looters" try to steel your beer. See who LEO targets first. Good luck with that...

Here's your alleged "Assault" Weapons...

katrina_looter.jpg
 
Re: Body Armor

Body armor is for cops and military only! The same goes for any firearm that shoots a single projectile or can engage targets past 100 yards. Welcome to Mexico. Enjoy your stay.
 
Re: Body Armor

Well, I'm done with this topic. It appears that the troll has left the building since he hasn't commented on anything for awhile.

I'm out.

Post ignored.
 
Re: Body Armor

Having been through both Katrina in NO and Gustav in BTR the thought of owning body armor doesn't sound like a bad idea. Hell, a good portion of the NOPD bugged out with their armor.

I find it funny what some LEO's think that civvies should own and not own.
 
Re: Body Armor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tmckay2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Forgot Katrina already huh? Some police services ended up buying armored vehicles after that, and for good reason. Funny how short people's memories are.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kifeter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I know I never mentioned an AR15 and an AK47 having the same ballistics. Are you trying to say that there is no such body armor that protects against both rounds? I am looking for something that would protect against both rounds, not saying that they are both the same.
kifeter said:
Hi guys,
I am specifically looking for something in level III and better to stop up to aks and ar15s. </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A professional wouldn't have put AR15 and AK47 in the same group as your talking 2 completely different rifles with 2 completely different ballistics which also brings to question their knowledge of even firearms... </div></div>
<span style="color: #FF0000">No one ever said you did mention both having the same ballistics, but most people that are concerned with body armor purchase depending on level of protection needed which has everything to do with ballistics, so actually read what was said...</span>


The reason I am looking into purchasing a set is for protection. Do I plan on using it every day? No. I will most likely never use it, but I don't see the negatives to having it. I live in FL and my main concern if for hurricane season. During Hurricane Andrew, things got a bit ugly. Yes, this did happen a while back, but it could happen again and I don't see anything wrong with staying safe.

<span style="color: #FF0000">I don't recall there ever being mass rioting by heavily armed people shooting and killing civilians in Florida and I don't ever recall a time of any major Natural Disaster here in the US where the rioters were running around with "aks and r15s". Actually if you're strapped up and carrying during a time of mass disturbance LEO is more likely to take you as a threat than the rioters. </span>
</div></div> </div></div> [/quote

Broker-

You must be the type of person that has a tool shed bigger than there house. Do you only purchase tools that are job specific? You don't own an adjustable wrench?

I am trying to find something that would cover both calibers because I do not have a specific level of protection needed. I don't know if you've been reeding but I clearly don't have an immediate and may never have a need for actually using them. That is why I am looking for something that would fit a broader range of ballistics.


Now, concerning you topic of natural disasters. Please copy and paste the part where I said there was mass rioting in Florida. It's probably going to be hard to find. Good luck with that.

You seem like a person that does not believe in change. Since there hasn't been mass rioting in the past, there will never be mass rioting or anything like that right? Like I have said before, I am getting these just in case, I hope never to use them and since money isn't a concern I don't see a reason in not owning a set.

Many of you say that I will be targeted first by LEO in the streets wearing these, but I don't plan on running around with these. I prepare properly for hurricanes so that I will not have to leave my homestead.


<span style="color: #009900">Now, does any one have a reason why its considered unwise to purchase a pair? To this point, I have yet to hear a con to owning a set.</span>
Click to expand...
 
Re: Body Armor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kifeter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hi guys,

I wanted to know what you guys are using for body armor? I have been looking into it and I cant seem to find exactly what I want. I am specifically looking for something in level III and better to stop up to aks and ar15s.

From what I've seen, the materials are:
Steel
Ceramic
Polyethylene
Dyneema

I prefer staying away from steel due to weight and away from ceramic for there durability. Please let me know what you use and why. I would appreciate any links to info.

Thanks </div></div>

OK, so I'll bite here, even after reading all the BS. I'll not tell you what to buy, but give a few points to consider:

1. Steel plates, while very durable, thin, and "cheap", come with a few issues. Spall, front side and back side. If your plate takes a rifle bullet, the bullet will splatter about, just like when a bullet hits a steel target on the range. Depending on the location of the hit, angle on the plate and the location of body parts (think neck, jaw and those pesky brachial arteries in the upper arms) you WILL take a hit. In addition to this there is the issue of backside spall, metal flakes blowing off the back side and into your chest/back. The correct way to use a steel plate is with a fully encapsulating soft armor carrier. You put the plate in the Kevlar (or substitute) pouch, then put that package into a nylon carrier. Just putting a plate backer behind it only protects you from the lesser of two evils. In addition, the armor carrier will add cost, weight, thickness and overall size to your plate. In my experience, the armor cover added enough material, that a 10x12" plate would no longer fit into a carrier sized to fit it.

There have been tests conducted where several steel plates failed to stop 556 rounds they claim to stop. (556 M193 55FMJ was popular culprit). OK, so I have issues with steel plates as body armor. Drill a hole in the top and make a gong target out of it.

2. Shop for plates based on your perceived level of threat. Will you encounter a Garand wielding shooter with AP ammo, or a disgruntled Slurpie-Server with a SVD, slinging steel core 7.62x54R at you? If not you may want to skip Level IV, BUT there are ceramic plates that can be almost as cheap as steel plates. Down side is that they can be prone to damage. Ive been around a fair number of ceramic plates, under various condition and I have not seen a set damaged. I kept a set in a plate carrier in the trunk of my OGV for 6 years with no issue. Oh, and I wore them to work a lot as well too.

3. Threat vs. special threat If you are concerned about AR and AK threats, you need to think about the availability of 5.56, 7.62 and 5.45 steel core/penitrator rounds. For the most part, this stuff can be found at any gunshow/gunshop. Google shoping results for M855 or ss109 for a hint. My point is this, most Level III plates do not stop the "special threat" rounds. Buying a L III plate is only protecting you from half the carbine rounds that are out there. NIJ requires that plates be shot with specific ammmo in a specific fashion in order to get a protective rating. If the round is not on the list, it just does not count...... Sorry Mrs X, we never claimed our plates stopped the round that killed your husband/son...... There are plates listed as III+, but as far as I know, the + part of the rating is not regulated, or part of NIJ testing. When shopping for plates, read the info listed on the manufactures site, if its not listed, call or move onto the next link....

BIG HINT OF THE DAY: Google Dr. Gary Roberts. His information and testing of all types of armor in the last 5 years has been industry changing.

Happy 4th.
 
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