Hornady's new Concentricity gauge....gimmick?

[Russell3812]

I've been reading about neck turning and wanting to purchase a few tools. When looking for a concentricity gauge to measure the runout I came across Hornady which has a new gauge caiming to correct the runout in a completed round without the need to neck turn the brass. It seems to do this by moving the postion of the seated bullet in the case if I am understanding correctly how it works. They also show you how it can be used to shore up commercial ammo if you want to eliminate the runout.
What I am trying to figure out is if the Hornady gauge can correct runout without the need to neck turn the case do I still need a neck turning tool? It still leaves a nonconcentric case if you simply bump the bullet as opposed to neck turning the brass so I'm guessing there is some disadvantage here. If anyone has experience in this matter I would appreciate your insight. Thank you.

 

[427Cobra]

Re: Hornady's new Concentricity gauge....gimmick?

Well I had a one and would not recommend it, my Sinclair gauge which I trust and the Hornady never read the same TIR, I sold it, my advice is buy a concentricity gauge and use it identify where the run out is coming from and adjust your technique to improve your runout.

 

[turbo54]

Re: Hornady's new Concentricity gauge....gimmick?

AFAIC, forget correcting cartridges with that tool.

It certainly doesn't replace neck turning. NT is all about even/consistent neck thickness and therefore even/consistent neck tension. Also, as a means to achieve an exact amount of chamber/neck clearance.

Concentric ammo is good - achieve it via good reloading setup.

The Hornady tool ain't bad for measuring runout though.

 

[bobbyfairbanks]

Re: Hornady's new Concentricity gauge....gimmick?

I find the Hornady tool to be handy. I do not use it to correct anything. I use it to see how my loads are looking.

 

[Bob 964]

Re: Hornady's new Concentricity gauge....gimmick?

Take 427Cobra's advice. I too use the Sinclair gauge. If your hand loads are measuring excessive runout, use the gauge to pinpoint the problem with your technique and then to verify that you have taken the proper corrective actions.

 

[Killswitch Engage]

Re: Hornady's new Concentricity gauge....gimmick?

i have one and love it. i have run it against my rcbs case master and it seems right on. i have used it to straighten ammunition and it works great. as long as the resized brass coming out of your die is concentric in the body this tool will serve you well.

 

[Rob01]

Re: Hornady's new Concentricity gauge....gimmick?

I don't have one yet but spent about an hour at SHOT last year plying with it and it works as advertised. They had a bunch of dummy rounds there and you can take the run out out of the rounds very simply.

Should you have to do ti all the time? No, you should have your handloading skills and tools worked out so that you have as little run out as possible but in those times you find rounds with run out you can fix them instead of making them fouling rounds.

 

[kraky]

Re: Hornady's new Concentricity gauge....gimmick?

I have the hornady and also a rcbs. I use both. The hornady I'm a bit "neutral" on. I use the rcbs to check how well my sized brass is coming out of the die. I fiddle with the expander spindle setting till I get it perfectly in the middle of the die which will show up on the rcbs.
I used to neck turn but gave up on it as a bit too labor intensive but it certainly works. I now use alot of lee collet dies too in combo with body dies.
All that said I no longer believe that you need brass under more than .004" runnout for accuracy. I believe 95% of your accuracy comes from the vibrations of your barrel and how it likes the total combo of your load. I've had two custom gun builders tell me the same thing. Keep in mind chambering rounds and how they are held in a chamber does not lead to keeping those straightly built rounds necessarily in line with the bore.
So, getting back to the hornady. There are times (especially) with bullets that sometimes seat a bit hard that you just plain get some with runnout. I always precheck on the rcbs my final loads. I feel the rcbs represents what the shell would "lay" like in a chamber where the hornady minimizes runnout cause it holds the shell at both ends which is not the natural scenario.
The hornady almost always shows less runnout than the rcbs. I try not to correct any more than to get the rounds under .004" although many times they correct to much better. The reason is people say you are slightly "egg holing" the case neck and that is plausible. For this reason I also never push on the bullet....I push on the case neck right at the mouth....hopefully adjusting this way reduces the egg holing effect.
One last comment....some cases correct real ez....some not. Annealing can help this I've found. And tough cases like the wsm are very hard to move.
90% of the time when you have runnout on the rcbs you will have it on the hornady. But I've seen times when the rcbs shows runnout and yet the hornady shows virtually no problem on the case neck. Then I mark the case neck with a marker and put it in the hornady and change it slightly so the rcbs shows less runnout. I guess it's possible the bullet can seat in a way as to not knock the case neck off center but still be higher on runnout.
These are my rambling observations. I still like the tool but certainly won't call it the most perfect out there.

 

[red hawk]

Re: Hornady's new Concentricity gauge....gimmick?

I have the Hornady and like it too.

 

[boltgunluvr]

Re: Hornady's new Concentricity gauge....gimmick?

I have one. I know their are a ton of benchrest shooters that dont like the Hornady Concentricity Gauge and I understand their argument. Gotta say I like it for it is...and I accept it for what it isn't.... The best?...No. I'll use mine to check consistency. Even my inexpensive Lee dies are usually no more than .002-.003 of runout. Just understand this gauge takes measurements relevant to the base, not the sides.

 

[bobbyfairbanks]

Re: Hornady's new Concentricity gauge....gimmick?

So If I am not turning my case necks, is it worth it to use a concentricity tool?

 

[boltgunluvr]

Re: Hornady's new Concentricity gauge....gimmick?

.....yeah....I think so. Its not expensive compared to other gauges. Its a pretty option to have on one's bench. I'm not a BR shooter.

 

[TexIndian]

Re: Hornady's new Concentricity gauge....gimmick?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bobbyfairbanks</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So If I am not turning my case necks, is it worth it to use a concentricity tool? </div></div>

Variation in neck wall thickness (fat side vs thin side) is not the only source of runout. While most every case will have some degree of this variation, the better quality cases don't have a lot of it. Concentricity issues could also come from your resizing and seating tools or your techniques. Having a way to measure resized cases and loaded rounds helps you track down the source of any problems.

Before the concentricity gauge will help you, you must have a thorough understanding of what's going on in each tool. For instance, let's say you had a case with lots of neck wall variation - an LC case neck with a fat side .006 thicker than the opposite side. If you resize that case without using an expander ball, the variation is all pushed to the inside neck wall while the outside of the neck would be concentric. If you did use an expander ball (or an expander mandrel after sizing), the variation would show up on the outside while the inner neck itself would be concentric.

I've never tried it, but the Hornady tool always gave me the shivers. Mashing the bullet of a loaded round into alignment is wrong in so many ways. That would create more problems than it cures. I can't believe they have the gall to make such a thing.

 

[waste_knot]

Re: Hornady's new Concentricity gauge....gimmick?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: OldTex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've never tried it, but the Hornady tool always gave me the shivers. Mashing the bullet of a loaded round into alignment is wrong in so many ways. That would create more problems than it cures. I can't believe they have the gall to make such a thing. </div></div>

It's not really mashing between anything as the dial indicator is spring loaded. It's only intended to straighten a round where the shoulder has cocked over the neck causing run-out on the bullet.

 

[DeSilva]

Re: Hornady's new Concentricity gauge....gimmick?

i have one and it may be cheap but it has helped me achieve better hand loads getting concentricity to less than 1 thou has given me great results in my loads doing 0.133 moa at 300 yards in my foxing pest control rifle (20x47 Lapua).
Just cus its cheap, at least it works (or so in my case)

 

[EddieNFL]

Re: Hornady's new Concentricity gauge....gimmick?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Concentric ammo is good - achieve it via good reloading setup.</div></div>

Ditto. Cure the problem; don't treat the symptom.