Help with my Noveske please

[tesoro]

HI I AM NEW TO AR's but not to shooting. I just moved to Grants pass, Oregon, and wanted an AR so I thought it would be smartl to buy a Noveske as they are made there and I already knew it was a quality rifle. However I wanted new and the only one I could find had a 14.5 in steel bbl in 1:7 - light carbine.
I like accuracy and the shop guy who was a ex circuit shooter had the same rifle and said he gets consistent sub moa groups with good factory ammo..and I believed him.
So I took it to the range with a variety of heavier bullet ammo and wanted to see what would happen ...the best i could get was a 4 shot hot bbl 1 in group with federal premium 63gr. Everything else was between 1-2 moa. I used a bushnell elite 4.5x30 on it.
If I got the bbl too hot then the shots would start walking bottom right.
An AR is semi auto so I want to shoot it in semi auto accurately!
I would like to shoot steel and varmints from 300 to 800 yds and I think I need a heavier and possibly longer bbl but not too long like 18-20in - atleast according to the novesky vibration theory if you want to go that route.

I think it would make most sense to sell my bbl and replace with another novesky bbl or ?

I will have an excellent milspec double chromed self defense bbl for sale once I can replace it...has 200 rds thru it.

Not sure why John does the 1:7 and he is hard to find to ask.

Any input much appreciated.

ps: I have never shot with a 30x so i did all my shooting at 100yds with it set and focused in on 30x for the fun of it. Not sure if this could make a diff in accuracy being that close. I didnt think of that until after the fact.

 

[CMH]

Re: Help with my Novesky please

A couple of questions/comments:

1) It is Noveske.

2) Are you capable of shooting better groups consistently out of other rifles?

3) 1:7 are used to stabilize generally longer bullets.

4) What trigger does your rifle have?

5) Please fill out your profile.

 

[deadly0311]

Re: Help with my Novesky please

Try some blackhills 77gr SMKs or Federal Gold Medal Match 69/77 grain stuff. That Federal Premium is 63 gr soft points IIRC, and isn't very good "precision" ammo, at best its expensive plinking shit

 

[tesoro]

Re: Help with my Novesky please

1) oops...!

2) yes

3) Yes i know but i shot some nosler 79 gr i think top of the shelf loads i picked up at the factory and they didnt shoot any better the federal hunting loads.

4)2 stage 2.5 lb break.

5) done

thx

 

[tesoro]

Re: Help with my Novesky please

Another question is does that little barrel just get too hot too fast to hold groupings? I think that is the problem or everyone would use small light barrels for precision shooting!
I just dont have the interest to shoot once and sit back for 10 minutes to let the bbl cool and and shoot again etc to see if that is the cause. it is just too much non AR! however I did that with my 243 BAR and I got it sub moa which is fine for hunting applications where you shoot once and maybe twice if you are lucky/unlucky

 

[tesoro]

Re: Help with my Novesky please

thx

 

[The Lawn Ranger]

Re: Help with my Novesky please

The AR takes some time to master- follow through is the critical element here.

I am by no means a master but experience has shown me that your level of marksmanship is quickly revealed in a semi auto. They are not for everyone.
I Have owned a Gap10 and now own a Noveske in 16" and love it. I shoot mine with iron sites at steel (no groups) and have considered a 1-4 power optic to make more consistent shots to 500 yds.

 

[500grains]

Re: Help with my Novesky please

I would ask Noveske to take a look at it before making any decisions.

 

[Temp9]

Re: Help with my Novesky please

I would get someone else to shoot it before sending it to Noveske. I don't mean this offensively at all. AR's are difficult to get used to. You say you are heating the barrel considerably? What would be your average rate of fire. 1 round every couple seconds? When I'm shooting groups with an AR, I don't shoot fast enough to get the barrel more than warm. Not because I'm afraid of heating the barrel, but because I personally can't keep my consistency and concentration at higher rates of fire.

Also, go through this basic checklist:
-Are your scope rings torqued properly?
-Is your scope functional? Try replacing it with a known good scope for testing purposes.
-Is the barrel nut tight?
-Are you shooting good ammo? FGMM 77gr almost always shoots well.
-Is anything touching the barrel? This includes the handguards or having your rest touch the barrel.

Best of luck.

 

[CMH]

Re: Help with my Novesky please

I am not sure which barrel weight you have, but I have an M4 profile Noveske upper - also 1:7 twist. I did not get great results from it with heavier bullets, even though the faster twist would indicate they should work well. I wanted to make Berger 70 grainers work in the worst way because of their BC. Unfortunately I think seating length issues vs. mag length issues prevailed there. I did similar workups with 69 SMK's, and while I had some success with them, what I found my gun loves is 60 grain ballistic tips of all things. Not exactly a long range bullet, but for my gun, that was not a show stoppper. They make varmints disappear like I wold like, and I have shot many 0.55-0.6 MOA groups with it with just a 1-4 optic, but I haven't broke the 0.5 MOA barrier yet. Again not knowing your profile, but mine is not a heavy barrel and I can shoot it hot enough to brand cattle with, and accuracy changes are minimal - far less than some of my lighter barreled bolt guns. What ammo did you run in it? What diameter is your barrel exactly? These factors along with what other members have suggested above give you some things to work through and think about before just swapping out to a heavier barrel, IMO.

Casey

 

[tesoro]

Re: Help with my Novesky please

Appreciate all the input...I will find out from the horses mouth what bullets that bbl likes and then see what it can do. The rifle is tight, the optics good and the shooter is proficient enough to consistently shoot sub moa (if sandbagged!).

I wasnt shooting fast....maybe one shot every 10 seconds..plenty of time to recover and set up for another shot.

CMH I think we might have the same bbl's as we have the M4 profile. Mine is the 14.5 in pinned with a flash suppressor to make it legal. have to measure dia but I think they are all the same on the steel ones.

 

[kvwpwr]

Re: Help with my Novesky please

You say you have experience shooting but are new to ARs. Have you shot any semi autos for precision? Theyre a different animal than bolt guns. I can shoot my 700 well consistently. But when it comes to ARs I'm not so good. It frustrates me. I know it takes practice and I believe that may be your problem also.

People are so quick to blame the equipment...

Most times, it's the Indian not the arrow.

 

[tesoro]

Re: Help with my Novesky please

hmm..I can shoot my 700 well also...like really well. I am new to precision semi shooting - other than loading my 243 and 308 BAR to shoot moa for hunting so I cant blame the rifle!

I didnt really think there was anything that diff to shooting a semi benchrest - pls enlighten me!

 

[lowfill707]

Re: Help with my Novesky please

ive got a noveske 13.7"infidel and it LOVES the heavier bullets, in the 75-77ish range. couldnt imagine how much more accurate an ar upper could get, noveske's are the shit. if you live in grants pass, seems like it would be easy to stop by and talk to someone if you think theres some kind of major issue. on a side note, its probably not your rate of fire that causing the barrel to get hot, its just the MISERABLE heat of grants pass.

 

[hlee]

Re: Help with my Novesky please

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tesoro</div><div class="ubbcode-body">hmm..I can shoot my 700 well also...like really well. I am new to precision semi shooting - other than loading my 243 and 308 BAR to shoot moa for hunting so I cant blame the rifle!

I didnt really think there was anything that diff to shooting a semi benchrest - pls enlighten me! </div></div>

On a bolt gun there are no parts moving while the bullet is traveling down the barrel. The recoil effectively starts after the bullet leaves the barrel. However, on a semi auto, the bolt carrier group starts moving back while the bullet is still in the barrel. Because of this, the gun is more likely to move off of target before the bullet leaves the barrel. What happens after you break the trigger (the follow through) is more important for this reason.

 

[tesoro]

Re: Help with my Novesky please

hmm makes perfect sense..never thought of it that way. well i'll make sure to maintain my follow thru discipline! I pretty much remain 100% concentrated on the target but relaxed until all recoil is dome with. thx

and yes grants pass not fun in august..shooter gets hotter than the barrel!

 

[jonthomps]

Re: Help with my Novesky please

Shooting a gas gun isn't the same as shooting a bolt gun. Gassers are much more difficult to master. If it's a CL barrel it's made for hard use, not necessarily accuracy (though they are accurate). Get a stainless if you want sub MOA groups. Either way, going with Noveske the first time around was a good choice!

 

[jimneb]

Re: Help with my Novesky please

Interesting stuff guys. I recently purchased a Noveske Rogue Hunter after a 5 year hiatus from shooting and hunting. I sighted it in on Friday morning and tried to shoot some groups. I was a bit disappointed in my efforts because my previous experience with bolt guns was pretty good.

This thread has me motivated to practice a lot more with some better ammo.

 

[BERTMAN77MK2]

Re: Help with my Novesky please

All my 556 AR's have shot consistently better after the first 200 to 300 rounds. Maybe it is just shooter acclimation, not sure