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Re: AR-10 Options / Opinions
Perhaps this will help - I have an OBR (16") with a NF 2.5-10x24. I also tend to run an elzetta for shooting pigs at night. The rifle shoots some rounds like the 175 gr SMK or 168 gr SMK extremely well, ie, sub .5 outside to outside. Same with 165gr Nosler BT/ 165gr Barnes TSX & 200 gr game kings. What it doesn't do is shoot 150gr or less (RE 147gr surplus) reliably at all. Grouping on those lower weights tend to suck. Having said that, I loaded up some black tips and they shot great. Overall though, I wouldn't trust the lower weights. Basically you have to flip the switchblock to suppressed to have normal shooting - it's a pressure thing with my rifle. Having said that, it is a precision rifle and I have no problem smoking steel out to 1K at the local liberty hill range. It also runs good with an AAC can if you are going that way, but its not really fun to carry around like that (too long & hangs on the bushes). So with this platform, think of it as a precision rifle but not a go to zombie gun.
I also own an LMT 308mws. Shoots everything, barrel changes easily if you want to, same AAC can runs great, and the PMAG's I use change out with the OBR. I did do the mod on the pmags for my older ones. The LMT seems to run about a MOA, worst shot group was around two inches, but the rifle chugs right along, have had no issues yet.
I don't have a REPR but my PSD has never jammed and flat out eats any ammo I have put thru it. It's a litle heavier than gas but yea, I would be happy with a REPR too.
Perhaps this will help - I have an OBR (16") with a NF 2.5-10x24. I also tend to run an elzetta for shooting pigs at night. The rifle shoots some rounds like the 175 gr SMK or 168 gr SMK extremely well, ie, sub .5 outside to outside. Same with 165gr Nosler BT/ 165gr Barnes TSX & 200 gr game kings. What it doesn't do is shoot 150gr or less (RE 147gr surplus) reliably at all. Grouping on those lower weights tend to suck. Having said that, I loaded up some black tips and they shot great. Overall though, I wouldn't trust the lower weights. Basically you have to flip the switchblock to suppressed to have normal shooting - it's a pressure thing with my rifle. Having said that, it is a precision rifle and I have no problem smoking steel out to 1K at the local liberty hill range. It also runs good with an AAC can if you are going that way, but its not really fun to carry around like that (too long & hangs on the bushes). So with this platform, think of it as a precision rifle but not a go to zombie gun.
I also own an LMT 308mws. Shoots everything, barrel changes easily if you want to, same AAC can runs great, and the PMAG's I use change out with the OBR. I did do the mod on the pmags for my older ones. The LMT seems to run about a MOA, worst shot group was around two inches, but the rifle chugs right along, have had no issues yet.
I don't have a REPR but my PSD has never jammed and flat out eats any ammo I have put thru it. It's a litle heavier than gas but yea, I would be happy with a REPR too.
Re: AR-10 Options / Opinions
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TallShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">After trying a very hIgh end semi precision AR 308, and many, many, AR's in 308.... I now have and will keep an LMT MWS.
Do I want some others? Of course. But I'll be keeping the LMT as my primary... And even with new acquisitions, it'll still be in the safe
</div></div>
Same here, I own an Armalite and a DPM SASS but my go to rifle is the LMT MWS.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TallShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">After trying a very hIgh end semi precision AR 308, and many, many, AR's in 308.... I now have and will keep an LMT MWS.
Do I want some others? Of course. But I'll be keeping the LMT as my primary... And even with new acquisitions, it'll still be in the safe
Same here, I own an Armalite and a DPM SASS but my go to rifle is the LMT MWS.
Re: AR-10 Options / Opinions
i have shot the POF 308 and it is so easy to stay on target that rifle is a dream.
i have shot the POF 308 and it is so easy to stay on target that rifle is a dream.
Re: AR-10 Options / Opinions
After finances, the big questions is in weight? I have an Armalite Super SASS and it shoots under .5 MOA, but it weighs in at (w/ optics) 15lbs. I also have an Armaliet AR-10A4 which also shoots close to .5 MOA but it weighs 9 lbs and after 10 rounds the thin barrel gets warm and the accuracy then goes to 1.5 MOA. Interesting thing is that both the 20 inch SASS and the 16 inch A4 both prefer 168gr. Hornady TAP. I am sure you can guess which one I bring hog and deer hunting?
After finances, the big questions is in weight? I have an Armalite Super SASS and it shoots under .5 MOA, but it weighs in at (w/ optics) 15lbs. I also have an Armaliet AR-10A4 which also shoots close to .5 MOA but it weighs 9 lbs and after 10 rounds the thin barrel gets warm and the accuracy then goes to 1.5 MOA. Interesting thing is that both the 20 inch SASS and the 16 inch A4 both prefer 168gr. Hornady TAP. I am sure you can guess which one I bring hog and deer hunting?
Re: AR-10 Options / Opinions
Yep, Armalites are damn good shooters but seemed to get no love here for some reason. I think it not taking Magpul mags might be part of the culprit. I really don't understand that one as I am sure they are no more reliable than the Gen 2s and if you are a reloader then the Magpul limits how much you can play with COAL. It cracks me up how people tout the mag interchangibilty has a pus but in reality very few parts will interchange between manufacturers. Anyway unless you are fighting side by side with your neighbors holding off hoards(insert your enemy here) zombies or whatever chances are he is not going to even have the same rile as you much less a .308 AR.
Anyway sorry to threadjack, for the guy on a limited budget I would skip DPMS and go for an Armalite or save up a tad more an get the LMT. I have seen enough LR308s not run right and one was so bad the factory gave up on it. Or build one to your specs. I don't care for the GAP in it's current offering, I am not a big fan POF. It's my understanding the KAC EMC is good to go, maybe KAC has finally got it right.
My flame suit is on.....
Yep, Armalites are damn good shooters but seemed to get no love here for some reason. I think it not taking Magpul mags might be part of the culprit. I really don't understand that one as I am sure they are no more reliable than the Gen 2s and if you are a reloader then the Magpul limits how much you can play with COAL. It cracks me up how people tout the mag interchangibilty has a pus but in reality very few parts will interchange between manufacturers. Anyway unless you are fighting side by side with your neighbors holding off hoards(insert your enemy here) zombies or whatever chances are he is not going to even have the same rile as you much less a .308 AR.
Anyway sorry to threadjack, for the guy on a limited budget I would skip DPMS and go for an Armalite or save up a tad more an get the LMT. I have seen enough LR308s not run right and one was so bad the factory gave up on it. Or build one to your specs. I don't care for the GAP in it's current offering, I am not a big fan POF. It's my understanding the KAC EMC is good to go, maybe KAC has finally got it right.
My flame suit is on.....
Re: AR-10 Options / Opinions
I did a ton of research and waded into the brand's and i could have gotten any .308 under 5k and i decided to go with LMT MWS there is just so much to like about it .
Price i got mine on sale at Kentucky Gun CO for 2299.00 16 inch CL
Barrel swap
full rails
nice stock/trigger
a Great barrel for being CL it is a shooter
I did like the Gap-10 also but price vs the LMT which it is just as about as good of a shooter. either will out perform most shooters to be honest.
POF is a great rifle but see above.
Reaper is a nice rifle but i like the features of the LMT more and price
OBR just had a price increase and while it is a very nice shooter i didn't care for the built in 20 moa rail./price
Armalite is a great rifle lots of different levels of AR's to choose from but over all price/barrel swap of the LMT lead me to it.
DPMS sorry to the DPMS fans but a lot of what i read was bad on them. most i have seen for sale on here have had to be shipped back to be worked on by DPMS.
I am not going to get into the lower entry level AR 10 style rifles. a 1k rifle is well a 1k rifle.
I did a ton of research and waded into the brand's and i could have gotten any .308 under 5k and i decided to go with LMT MWS there is just so much to like about it .
Price i got mine on sale at Kentucky Gun CO for 2299.00 16 inch CL
Barrel swap
full rails
nice stock/trigger
a Great barrel for being CL it is a shooter
I did like the Gap-10 also but price vs the LMT which it is just as about as good of a shooter. either will out perform most shooters to be honest.
POF is a great rifle but see above.
Reaper is a nice rifle but i like the features of the LMT more and price
OBR just had a price increase and while it is a very nice shooter i didn't care for the built in 20 moa rail./price
Armalite is a great rifle lots of different levels of AR's to choose from but over all price/barrel swap of the LMT lead me to it.
DPMS sorry to the DPMS fans but a lot of what i read was bad on them. most i have seen for sale on here have had to be shipped back to be worked on by DPMS.
I am not going to get into the lower entry level AR 10 style rifles. a 1k rifle is well a 1k rifle.
Re: AR-10 Options / Opinions
I have a LMT MWS 20"CL. LGS got it for me right at $2500 OTD. I bought this rifle to learn LR shooting with, and so far it has been a gem. My fundamentals are iffy at best, but I have no trouble at all shooting this gun MOA with good ammo. Heck, I shoot MOA with milsurp ball 147gr about 80% of the time. I have not shot it out past 300 yet but my goal is to hit a man-size target at 1k by the end of the year. This was my first 308 AR, and this thing has my whole perspective on AR10s skewed. The fit & finish makes the other ARs I occasionally shoot seem a little, well, cheap. It is a heavy sumbitch I will say that tho, mine is just over 14lbs.
I have a LMT MWS 20"CL. LGS got it for me right at $2500 OTD. I bought this rifle to learn LR shooting with, and so far it has been a gem. My fundamentals are iffy at best, but I have no trouble at all shooting this gun MOA with good ammo. Heck, I shoot MOA with milsurp ball 147gr about 80% of the time. I have not shot it out past 300 yet but my goal is to hit a man-size target at 1k by the end of the year. This was my first 308 AR, and this thing has my whole perspective on AR10s skewed. The fit & finish makes the other ARs I occasionally shoot seem a little, well, cheap. It is a heavy sumbitch I will say that tho, mine is just over 14lbs.
Re: AR-10 Options / Opinions
That was very British of you
That was very British of you
Re: AR-10 Options / Opinions
Fwiw, I'm not a comp shooter or a mil sniper, I just wanted a good 750 yard shooter and I think I've got one.It's a DPMS LR-308,24 inch st. steel bull barrel with a Miculek comp.I use a Millet TRS-1 scope and a Harris bipod.It ain't the lightest rifle around, but it'll shoot sub 1 inch 100 yard groups and beat the hell out of 500 yard pop-ups all day long.I use my own handloads,and three years running I've had zero problems with this rig.If you are on a budget,this is a good way to get to play at distances past 100 yards.And as a side note,I use a number of p-mags and they have worked just fine for me.
Fwiw, I'm not a comp shooter or a mil sniper, I just wanted a good 750 yard shooter and I think I've got one.It's a DPMS LR-308,24 inch st. steel bull barrel with a Miculek comp.I use a Millet TRS-1 scope and a Harris bipod.It ain't the lightest rifle around, but it'll shoot sub 1 inch 100 yard groups and beat the hell out of 500 yard pop-ups all day long.I use my own handloads,and three years running I've had zero problems with this rig.If you are on a budget,this is a good way to get to play at distances past 100 yards.And as a side note,I use a number of p-mags and they have worked just fine for me.
Re: AR-10 Options / Opinions
Just bought a second POF in 308. Loved the first one so much (short barrel) decided to go with a long distance rig. I think I got a dud this time a round. She will not hold a group past 25 yards. Didnt skimp on glass or ammo and pretty familiar with gas guns.Contacted the boss at POF and waiting for him to get back to me with shipping info. Been two weeks now so hope he follows up on his word and takes care of me. Anyone have similar issues?
Just bought a second POF in 308. Loved the first one so much (short barrel) decided to go with a long distance rig. I think I got a dud this time a round. She will not hold a group past 25 yards. Didnt skimp on glass or ammo and pretty familiar with gas guns.Contacted the boss at POF and waiting for him to get back to me with shipping info. Been two weeks now so hope he follows up on his word and takes care of me. Anyone have similar issues?
Re: AR-10 Options / Opinions
LMT LM308MWSE 308 MWS Rifle in 7.62mm
I'm a long time AR-10 guy and when I went to this one I was shocked how much quality and accuracy could come out of this platform.
At some point the gun exceeds the shooter so I don't think me getting a "better", "more expensive", "exotic" rifle will help me.
LMT LM308MWSE 308 MWS Rifle in 7.62mm
I'm a long time AR-10 guy and when I went to this one I was shocked how much quality and accuracy could come out of this platform.
At some point the gun exceeds the shooter so I don't think me getting a "better", "more expensive", "exotic" rifle will help me.
Re: AR-10 Options / Opinions
Larue OBR, in my personal experience with the gun and many others Larue guns. It is a solid platform with solid accuracy. Although with price increases there may be other viable alternatives if price is an issue.
Larue OBR, in my personal experience with the gun and many others Larue guns. It is a solid platform with solid accuracy. Although with price increases there may be other viable alternatives if price is an issue.
Re: AR-10 Options / Opinions
lets see how the new Armalite works before the verdict is in. My AR10T is a tack driver. I am suprised they made the move but we will see how it plays out, I have one on the way........
http://www.armalite.com/ItemForm.aspx?it...13-83959df8252d
lets see how the new Armalite works before the verdict is in. My AR10T is a tack driver. I am suprised they made the move but we will see how it plays out, I have one on the way........
http://www.armalite.com/ItemForm.aspx?it...13-83959df8252d
Re: AR-10 Options / Opinions
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: trophyhunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I understand the concept that the top tier rifles are exactly that, but at being $1000 over what I paid for mine I was thinking worst case scenario I could upgrade slowly to improve accuracy. I'm sure some of the rifles being built here are over the $3000 price range and it would've maybe been "cheaper" to buy one of these rifles.
If the SASS is moa capable on a good day where does the $1000 pay the most benefit ? More ammo, more practice. Or upgrade barrel, upgrade trigger and so on and so forth.
Then the question I ask myself... If I bought a Gap10 or LMT would that make me a better shooter then I would be with a Sass ? I don't consider myself a great shooter or even a top competitive shooter. I punch holes in paper up to 700yds.
please correct me if my thinking is wrong... </div></div>
I own a LMT MWSE, an Armalite AR 10A4 with a Noveske upper and the DPMS SASS. The DPMS SASS has a NF MXS 5.5-22X50 HST ans ZS, The LMT and the Armalite a NF NXS 3-15X50 HST ans ZS. My most accurate one and my favorite is the DPMS SASS with the LMT a close second. The DPMS shots 5 shot 100 yard groups well under 1'. The fit and finishes on mine was better that the LMT as my LMT MSWE had quite a few nicks on the finish down to the metal. Additionally out of the box it was shooting shot gun groups until I took the barrel out and retorqued it. That doesn't impress me about the quality of LMT's QC. Maybe the Brit contract has them off their game. On the other hand my LMT QCB in 5.56 was perfect and a tack driver out of the box.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: trophyhunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I understand the concept that the top tier rifles are exactly that, but at being $1000 over what I paid for mine I was thinking worst case scenario I could upgrade slowly to improve accuracy. I'm sure some of the rifles being built here are over the $3000 price range and it would've maybe been "cheaper" to buy one of these rifles.
If the SASS is moa capable on a good day where does the $1000 pay the most benefit ? More ammo, more practice. Or upgrade barrel, upgrade trigger and so on and so forth.
Then the question I ask myself... If I bought a Gap10 or LMT would that make me a better shooter then I would be with a Sass ? I don't consider myself a great shooter or even a top competitive shooter. I punch holes in paper up to 700yds.
please correct me if my thinking is wrong... </div></div>
I own a LMT MWSE, an Armalite AR 10A4 with a Noveske upper and the DPMS SASS. The DPMS SASS has a NF MXS 5.5-22X50 HST ans ZS, The LMT and the Armalite a NF NXS 3-15X50 HST ans ZS. My most accurate one and my favorite is the DPMS SASS with the LMT a close second. The DPMS shots 5 shot 100 yard groups well under 1'. The fit and finishes on mine was better that the LMT as my LMT MSWE had quite a few nicks on the finish down to the metal. Additionally out of the box it was shooting shot gun groups until I took the barrel out and retorqued it. That doesn't impress me about the quality of LMT's QC. Maybe the Brit contract has them off their game. On the other hand my LMT QCB in 5.56 was perfect and a tack driver out of the box.
Re: AR-10 Options / Opinions
I used to have a DPMS SASS with a Bushnell Elite Tactical FFP 6-24X50 on it. It was a very accurate rifle. 1.5" groups at 200 meters and consistent hits on prairie dogs past 800m. When I started using it for prairie dog murdering is when I found the achilles heel of the rifle. Rifle+Scope+Bipod=16lbs. It is HEAVY. 16 lbs will break you off and is not very realistic as an offhand shooting weapon. With its ridiculously heavy bull barrel it is extremely front heavy, even with the heavy PRS stock to put more weight in the back.
Long story short I sold it and just built my own. IMO, and if it is feasible for you, this is the way to go. Best method, as someone already mentioned and I agree with, would be to buy the Bolt you wanna use and send it to someone like Krieger. Short of that, and what I did, was buy a Rainier Arms UltraMatch barrel and built around that, keeping weight in constant consideration.
What I ended up with is a rifle that I put together myself so I don't have to worry about DPMS QC using a DPMS upper and lower receiver, with higher end components in it than DPMS, a Vortex Viper PST FFL 4-16X50 and Harris Bipods, coming in at exactly 12lbs. That four pounds makes a huge difference. I can carry this rifle, and shoot offhand if I ever felt the need. The best part, is that I built the rifle (not counting scope or bipods) for right at 1800. Even better, is it ended up MORE accurate than the DPMS SASS. Using 168gr SMK I have consistently been able to put 5 rounds in a nickel sized group.
If you don't wanna go through all that (building your own rifle is not too hard, its worth it) then you might want to consider the LMT. For a pre-built rifle it seems the best bang for your buck. Depending on your options it can be had for around 2700.
You mentioned you wanted something that is a combination of both accuracy and "SHTF gun". IMO you wanna stay as close to 12lbs or less as possible if you plan on being able to carry this long distances and be effective with it. I was a M240B gunner in an infantry weapons squad for about a year before I moved on to better things and I can tell you that humping a heavy gun all over the place sucks.
Anyway, that's what has worked for me but YMMV.
I used to have a DPMS SASS with a Bushnell Elite Tactical FFP 6-24X50 on it. It was a very accurate rifle. 1.5" groups at 200 meters and consistent hits on prairie dogs past 800m. When I started using it for prairie dog murdering is when I found the achilles heel of the rifle. Rifle+Scope+Bipod=16lbs. It is HEAVY. 16 lbs will break you off and is not very realistic as an offhand shooting weapon. With its ridiculously heavy bull barrel it is extremely front heavy, even with the heavy PRS stock to put more weight in the back.
Long story short I sold it and just built my own. IMO, and if it is feasible for you, this is the way to go. Best method, as someone already mentioned and I agree with, would be to buy the Bolt you wanna use and send it to someone like Krieger. Short of that, and what I did, was buy a Rainier Arms UltraMatch barrel and built around that, keeping weight in constant consideration.
What I ended up with is a rifle that I put together myself so I don't have to worry about DPMS QC using a DPMS upper and lower receiver, with higher end components in it than DPMS, a Vortex Viper PST FFL 4-16X50 and Harris Bipods, coming in at exactly 12lbs. That four pounds makes a huge difference. I can carry this rifle, and shoot offhand if I ever felt the need. The best part, is that I built the rifle (not counting scope or bipods) for right at 1800. Even better, is it ended up MORE accurate than the DPMS SASS. Using 168gr SMK I have consistently been able to put 5 rounds in a nickel sized group.
If you don't wanna go through all that (building your own rifle is not too hard, its worth it) then you might want to consider the LMT. For a pre-built rifle it seems the best bang for your buck. Depending on your options it can be had for around 2700.
You mentioned you wanted something that is a combination of both accuracy and "SHTF gun". IMO you wanna stay as close to 12lbs or less as possible if you plan on being able to carry this long distances and be effective with it. I was a M240B gunner in an infantry weapons squad for about a year before I moved on to better things and I can tell you that humping a heavy gun all over the place sucks.
Anyway, that's what has worked for me but YMMV.
Re: AR-10 Options / Opinions
My 2 cents, and I totally agree with TX_flyboy. I have a dpms lr308, being a cop, having a son and a wife, 3-4000 is just not in my budget. but I bought the dpms, installed a jp trigger, prs stock, leupold mk4, had the barrel cut to 20 in and added a jp break. Im completely happy with the rifle. it shoots on par with our department bolt guns, it shoots better than my ability and so far ive seen sub moa groups out to 500 yards which is the max ive been able to shoot so far. im not at all upset with my decesion. next I'll rebarrel when this one stops working and call it good.
My 2 cents, and I totally agree with TX_flyboy. I have a dpms lr308, being a cop, having a son and a wife, 3-4000 is just not in my budget. but I bought the dpms, installed a jp trigger, prs stock, leupold mk4, had the barrel cut to 20 in and added a jp break. Im completely happy with the rifle. it shoots on par with our department bolt guns, it shoots better than my ability and so far ive seen sub moa groups out to 500 yards which is the max ive been able to shoot so far. im not at all upset with my decesion. next I'll rebarrel when this one stops working and call it good.
Re: AR-10 Options / Opinions
I am resurrecting my post, as now that I have moved to "free" state (read: gun friendly) I all sorts of options now.
Having said that, I am torn between the follow rifles and optics.
RIFLES
CMMG MK3 .308
PWS MK216 .308
RRA Elite Operator .308
DPMS Panther MK 12 .308
OPTICS
For my purpose I am looking for something that has:
- General purpose role
- true 1x power ability
- no less than 6 x maximum
- Illuminated ret
- BDC would be preferred
- clear glass
- good reputation
- durable / dependable
- hopefully won't cost more than the rifle
I have come up with:
SWFA SS 1-6x 24 - http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-1-6x24-Tactical-30mm-Riflescope-P53845.aspx
Bushnell Elite 1-6.5x24 - http://swfa.com/Bushnell-1-65x24-Elite-Tactical-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P51672.aspx
Leupold Mark 6 1-6x20 - http://swfa.com/Leupold-1-6x20-Mark-6-34mm-Riflescope-P52981.aspx
I am sure there are others. Any experiences or pro vs cons would be appreciated
I am resurrecting my post, as now that I have moved to "free" state (read: gun friendly) I all sorts of options now.
Having said that, I am torn between the follow rifles and optics.
RIFLES
CMMG MK3 .308
PWS MK216 .308
RRA Elite Operator .308
DPMS Panther MK 12 .308
OPTICS
For my purpose I am looking for something that has:
- General purpose role
- true 1x power ability
- no less than 6 x maximum
- Illuminated ret
- BDC would be preferred
- clear glass
- good reputation
- durable / dependable
- hopefully won't cost more than the rifle
I have come up with:
SWFA SS 1-6x 24 - http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-1-6x24-Tactical-30mm-Riflescope-P53845.aspx
Bushnell Elite 1-6.5x24 - http://swfa.com/Bushnell-1-65x24-Elite-Tactical-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P51672.aspx
Leupold Mark 6 1-6x20 - http://swfa.com/Leupold-1-6x20-Mark-6-34mm-Riflescope-P52981.aspx
I am sure there are others. Any experiences or pro vs cons would be appreciated
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