I went to a Leupold Mark IV M5 (TMR reticle) last year which was my first FFP and First mil/mil scope. I got a great deal and I've always been die hard Leupold but I haven't been very impressed with light gathering, and the clicks are not that positive. I've talked to a lot of people about the HDMR's and heard nothing but good reviews. I guess I don't have an exact question, I just need to hear some more opinions.
Rifle Scopes HDMR for police sniper?
- Thread starter $ierra1
- Start date
Re: HDMR for police sniper?
I run an IOR 3-18x42.
They came out with the illuminated 3.5-18 about 2 months after I bought it.
I have a man crush on my IOR, but I wish it was illuminated and I can't adjust the parallax for really close shots (25 yards).
When you crank that Bushy scope down to 3.5 for those short range shots at night, an illuminated reticle would be very helpful as that fine crosshair will disappear on a dark background in minimal light. Granted, most scenes will be illuminated, but you have to assume the worst.
I really like the looks of the HDMR, it has damn near everything you need except illumination.
Take a look at the new IOR 4-16 FFP, illuminated. It is a 30mm tube with an awesome reticle and illumination for about the sme price. Give Scott at liberty optics a ring, there is a hide discount available.
You will be astounded by IOR glass.
Other than that, your options in that price range are limited (1200 - 1400).
There is the weaver 3-15 for 700, which gets very favorable reviews and the bushnell 3-12, available with illumination for about 800.
I'm not comfortable with recommending the Viper PST for duty use as I don't think they are as robust as the others mentioned.
I run an IOR 3-18x42.
They came out with the illuminated 3.5-18 about 2 months after I bought it.
I have a man crush on my IOR, but I wish it was illuminated and I can't adjust the parallax for really close shots (25 yards).
When you crank that Bushy scope down to 3.5 for those short range shots at night, an illuminated reticle would be very helpful as that fine crosshair will disappear on a dark background in minimal light. Granted, most scenes will be illuminated, but you have to assume the worst.
I really like the looks of the HDMR, it has damn near everything you need except illumination.
Take a look at the new IOR 4-16 FFP, illuminated. It is a 30mm tube with an awesome reticle and illumination for about the sme price. Give Scott at liberty optics a ring, there is a hide discount available.
You will be astounded by IOR glass.
Other than that, your options in that price range are limited (1200 - 1400).
There is the weaver 3-15 for 700, which gets very favorable reviews and the bushnell 3-12, available with illumination for about 800.
I'm not comfortable with recommending the Viper PST for duty use as I don't think they are as robust as the others mentioned.
Re: HDMR for police sniper?
If you're using it for duty id recommend something with illumination. NF NXS, vortex razor hd, schmidt just to name a few that offer illuminated reticles. I do have an hdmr as well, great scope, good glass and tracks reliably, adjustments arent as positive as nf/vortex or schmidt. I do like the locking turrets and compat design.
If you're using it for duty id recommend something with illumination. NF NXS, vortex razor hd, schmidt just to name a few that offer illuminated reticles. I do have an hdmr as well, great scope, good glass and tracks reliably, adjustments arent as positive as nf/vortex or schmidt. I do like the locking turrets and compat design.
Re: HDMR for police sniper?
I have one and am using it for work. I love it but I wish it had illumination.
I have one and am using it for work. I love it but I wish it had illumination.
Re: HDMR for police sniper?
I have one and like it a lot, but as has already been mentioned, for most LE work an illuminated reticle is a must have. I'm keeping the NF on my duty rifle.
I've also jumped our team to 56mm objective NF's due to the improved low light performance.
I have one and like it a lot, but as has already been mentioned, for most LE work an illuminated reticle is a must have. I'm keeping the NF on my duty rifle.
I've also jumped our team to 56mm objective NF's due to the improved low light performance.
Re: HDMR for police sniper?
During the All Star Game here in KC, the KCPD snipers were looking through HDMR's I was told.
During the All Star Game here in KC, the KCPD snipers were looking through HDMR's I was told.
Re: HDMR for police sniper?
Illumination is required for duty use. I've had many deployments that were in low light conditions where illumination was necessary.
It is better to use a scope that has adjustable illumination. While I like Nightforce scopes, they only have one illumination setting, it can be adjusted for intensity, but not in the field on station.
Illumination is required for duty use. I've had many deployments that were in low light conditions where illumination was necessary.
It is better to use a scope that has adjustable illumination. While I like Nightforce scopes, they only have one illumination setting, it can be adjusted for intensity, but not in the field on station.
Re: HDMR for police sniper?
HDMR for LE DM work? Not necessary. DMR for LE DM work? Why not?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: buggsb</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have one and like it a lot, but as has already been mentioned, for most LE work an illuminated reticle is a must have. I'm keeping the NF on my duty rifle.
I've also jumped our team to 56mm objective NF's due to the improved low light performance. </div></div>Why is illumination absolutely necessary on a LE scope?
And there's no improved performance with the 56mm objective on a NF, at least none of significance when I do the exit pupil math and none that I can see in the scope.
HDMR for LE DM work? Not necessary. DMR for LE DM work? Why not?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: buggsb</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have one and like it a lot, but as has already been mentioned, for most LE work an illuminated reticle is a must have. I'm keeping the NF on my duty rifle.
I've also jumped our team to 56mm objective NF's due to the improved low light performance. </div></div>Why is illumination absolutely necessary on a LE scope?
And there's no improved performance with the 56mm objective on a NF, at least none of significance when I do the exit pupil math and none that I can see in the scope.
Re: HDMR for police sniper?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">HDMR for LE DM work? Not necessary. DMR for LE DM work? Why not?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: buggsb</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have one and like it a lot, but as has already been mentioned, for most LE work an illuminated reticle is a must have. I'm keeping the NF on my duty rifle.
I've also jumped our team to 56mm objective NF's due to the improved low light performance. </div></div>Why is illumination absolutely necessary on a LE scope?
And there's no improved performance with the 56mm objective on a NF, at least none of significance when I do the exit pupil math and none that I can see in the scope. </div></div>
YMMV, but I've been in plenty of situations where I was glad I had the illuminated reticle. <span style="text-decoration: underline">Absolute necessity</span>, OK, probably not, but few things are. Could you do the job with lesser equipment?...sure but I'm going to use gear that I feel gives me an advantage.
As for the 56mm objective, again, your experience may be different from mine but we did fairly extensive side by side comparisons of a number of optics in a variety of situations and in various lighting conditions and the consensus was in favor of the 56. Was there a huge difference, no, of course not, but for the same $$ we thought it was the better option.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">HDMR for LE DM work? Not necessary. DMR for LE DM work? Why not?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: buggsb</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have one and like it a lot, but as has already been mentioned, for most LE work an illuminated reticle is a must have. I'm keeping the NF on my duty rifle.
I've also jumped our team to 56mm objective NF's due to the improved low light performance. </div></div>Why is illumination absolutely necessary on a LE scope?
And there's no improved performance with the 56mm objective on a NF, at least none of significance when I do the exit pupil math and none that I can see in the scope. </div></div>
YMMV, but I've been in plenty of situations where I was glad I had the illuminated reticle. <span style="text-decoration: underline">Absolute necessity</span>, OK, probably not, but few things are. Could you do the job with lesser equipment?...sure but I'm going to use gear that I feel gives me an advantage.
As for the 56mm objective, again, your experience may be different from mine but we did fairly extensive side by side comparisons of a number of optics in a variety of situations and in various lighting conditions and the consensus was in favor of the 56. Was there a huge difference, no, of course not, but for the same $$ we thought it was the better option.
Re: HDMR for police sniper?
I'm not a LE sniper, but having shot at night, I can't imagine not having illumination.
Seems to me that unless you'll ONLY ever have to engage during the day, you need a lit reticle.
Also, sure seems you'd need an externally adjustable lit reticle.
I'm not a LE sniper, but having shot at night, I can't imagine not having illumination.
Seems to me that unless you'll ONLY ever have to engage during the day, you need a lit reticle.
Also, sure seems you'd need an externally adjustable lit reticle.
Re: HDMR for police sniper?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm not a LE sniper, but having shot at night, I can't imagine not having illumination.
Seems to me that unless you'll ONLY ever have to engage during the day, you need a lit reticle.</div></div>One needs to be able to see and to properly identify a target. If you can see the target you can see the reticle.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm not a LE sniper, but having shot at night, I can't imagine not having illumination.
Seems to me that unless you'll ONLY ever have to engage during the day, you need a lit reticle.</div></div>One needs to be able to see and to properly identify a target. If you can see the target you can see the reticle.
Re: HDMR for police sniper?
I guess I'll have to avoid absolutes with this crowd...or perhaps I'll just STFU. I was just trying to share my personal experience with the OP relative to his questions.
Perhaps the phenomenon we observed was normal manufacturing production variances and the larger objective just coincidentally had better glass....but in our observation we were able to better resolve both text and images in a side by side comparison. You're welcome to interpret the calculated difference however you wish...this was just our experience.
I guess I'll have to avoid absolutes with this crowd...or perhaps I'll just STFU. I was just trying to share my personal experience with the OP relative to his questions.
Perhaps the phenomenon we observed was normal manufacturing production variances and the larger objective just coincidentally had better glass....but in our observation we were able to better resolve both text and images in a side by side comparison. You're welcome to interpret the calculated difference however you wish...this was just our experience.
Re: HDMR for police sniper?
Personal experience from a number of low light missions with my departments team has taught me a few thing. Is an illuminated reticle necessary, no, however it does offer contrast when indexing on a threat in low light conditions.
As far as the one setting intensity on the NF reticles I've found that once set there has been absolutely no need to change. A very low setting allows me to pick up the reticle quickly but does not wash out the target.
Just my 2cts.
Personal experience from a number of low light missions with my departments team has taught me a few thing. Is an illuminated reticle necessary, no, however it does offer contrast when indexing on a threat in low light conditions.
As far as the one setting intensity on the NF reticles I've found that once set there has been absolutely no need to change. A very low setting allows me to pick up the reticle quickly but does not wash out the target.
Just my 2cts.
Re: HDMR for police sniper?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm not a LE sniper, but having shot at night, I can't imagine not having illumination.
Seems to me that unless you'll ONLY ever have to engage during the day, you need a lit reticle.</div></div>One needs to be able to see and to properly identify a target. If you can see the target you can see the reticle. </div></div>
I'm going to just go ahead and disagree with your sweeping statement. I've been behind a scope on plenty of occasions where I could ID my target but had a hard time seeing the reticule clearly. Illuminated scopes are a good thing, you can always turn it off if you don't need it but you can't turn it on if you don't have it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm not a LE sniper, but having shot at night, I can't imagine not having illumination.
Seems to me that unless you'll ONLY ever have to engage during the day, you need a lit reticle.</div></div>One needs to be able to see and to properly identify a target. If you can see the target you can see the reticle. </div></div>
I'm going to just go ahead and disagree with your sweeping statement. I've been behind a scope on plenty of occasions where I could ID my target but had a hard time seeing the reticule clearly. Illuminated scopes are a good thing, you can always turn it off if you don't need it but you can't turn it on if you don't have it.
Re: HDMR for police sniper?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: locobob</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm going to just go ahead and disagree with your sweeping statement. I've been behind a scope on plenty of occasions where I could ID my target but had a hard time seeing the reticule clearly. Illuminated scopes are a good thing, you can always turn it off if you don't need it but you can't turn it on if you don't have it. </div></div>That makes (some) sense to me. Did you take the shot?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: locobob</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm going to just go ahead and disagree with your sweeping statement. I've been behind a scope on plenty of occasions where I could ID my target but had a hard time seeing the reticule clearly. Illuminated scopes are a good thing, you can always turn it off if you don't need it but you can't turn it on if you don't have it. </div></div>That makes (some) sense to me. Did you take the shot?
Re: HDMR for police sniper?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">HDMR for LE DM work? Not necessary. DMR for LE DM work? Why not?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: buggsb</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have one and like it a lot, but as has already been mentioned, for most LE work an illuminated reticle is a must have. I'm keeping the NF on my duty rifle.
I've also jumped our team to 56mm objective NF's due to the improved low light performance. </div></div>Why is illumination absolutely necessary on a LE scope?
And there's no improved performance with the 56mm objective on a NF, at least none of significance when I do the exit pupil math and none that I can see in the scope. </div></div>
black reticle against a dark back ground is tough to see, and a lot of situations happen at night. it can also give you contrast on a dark target, on a target against the same color back ground. there are times you can still see through the scope, but the reticle is very difficult to see, use illumination, problem solved. is illumination necessary is a benchrest broad daylight situation? no, but in a tactical situation, it's best i have it.
as for 50 vs 56 light transmission, you gain about 10% with the 56 on a 5.5-22x56. the numbers are small, but if you look at it from a percentage perspective it makes all the difference. i've seen the difference in low light hunting. that said the 50 isn't bad.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">HDMR for LE DM work? Not necessary. DMR for LE DM work? Why not?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: buggsb</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have one and like it a lot, but as has already been mentioned, for most LE work an illuminated reticle is a must have. I'm keeping the NF on my duty rifle.
I've also jumped our team to 56mm objective NF's due to the improved low light performance. </div></div>Why is illumination absolutely necessary on a LE scope?
And there's no improved performance with the 56mm objective on a NF, at least none of significance when I do the exit pupil math and none that I can see in the scope. </div></div>
black reticle against a dark back ground is tough to see, and a lot of situations happen at night. it can also give you contrast on a dark target, on a target against the same color back ground. there are times you can still see through the scope, but the reticle is very difficult to see, use illumination, problem solved. is illumination necessary is a benchrest broad daylight situation? no, but in a tactical situation, it's best i have it.
as for 50 vs 56 light transmission, you gain about 10% with the 56 on a 5.5-22x56. the numbers are small, but if you look at it from a percentage perspective it makes all the difference. i've seen the difference in low light hunting. that said the 50 isn't bad.
Re: HDMR for police sniper?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blade</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
As far as the one setting intensity on the NF reticles I've found that once set there has been absolutely no need to change. A very low setting allows me to pick up the reticle quickly but does not wash out the target.
Just my 2cts. </div></div>
I agree, Once I re-set my Nightforce down a bit from the factory setting it has worked well. The factory setting was set way too high and bloomed/ washed out too much in low light. My opinion was based on my experience. I would prefer adjustable illumination, although I have no reservations using my Nightforce on a duty rifle with it's set illumination.
To the O/P, I own a HDMR. My <span style="font-weight: bold">opinion</span>is based on many years on a tactical team and over a decade in a Police counter sniper role. I like my HDMR, but in my opinion, I feel it's necessary to have some type of reticle illumination available on a duty use / tactical scope. It's just the advantage of having it for that one time need.
There's a lot of opinions here and remember, this is the internet. Evaluate your needs and go with it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blade</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
As far as the one setting intensity on the NF reticles I've found that once set there has been absolutely no need to change. A very low setting allows me to pick up the reticle quickly but does not wash out the target.
Just my 2cts. </div></div>
I agree, Once I re-set my Nightforce down a bit from the factory setting it has worked well. The factory setting was set way too high and bloomed/ washed out too much in low light. My opinion was based on my experience. I would prefer adjustable illumination, although I have no reservations using my Nightforce on a duty rifle with it's set illumination.
To the O/P, I own a HDMR. My <span style="font-weight: bold">opinion</span>is based on many years on a tactical team and over a decade in a Police counter sniper role. I like my HDMR, but in my opinion, I feel it's necessary to have some type of reticle illumination available on a duty use / tactical scope. It's just the advantage of having it for that one time need.
There's a lot of opinions here and remember, this is the internet. Evaluate your needs and go with it.
Re: HDMR for police sniper?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Fair enough.
When have you used the illumination on the reticle? </div></div>
Graham, I have used the illumination on both my SN-3 and Vortex Razor HD is several different callouts.
There have been many instances where I could ID the target but without illumination I would not have been able to see the FFP reticle on low magnification.
Remember, SWAT callouts aren't nice days at the range. They happen in snow, rain, fog, etc. Some of the worst conditions imaginable. I don't like to "hope" that there is enough contrast between the target and my reticle. I want the ability to cause the contrast.
If the OP is limited to the HDMR price range, then I would suggest the 3-12x44 Elite Tactical with the BTR-Mil reticle.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Fair enough.
When have you used the illumination on the reticle? </div></div>
Graham, I have used the illumination on both my SN-3 and Vortex Razor HD is several different callouts.
There have been many instances where I could ID the target but without illumination I would not have been able to see the FFP reticle on low magnification.
Remember, SWAT callouts aren't nice days at the range. They happen in snow, rain, fog, etc. Some of the worst conditions imaginable. I don't like to "hope" that there is enough contrast between the target and my reticle. I want the ability to cause the contrast.
If the OP is limited to the HDMR price range, then I would suggest the 3-12x44 Elite Tactical with the BTR-Mil reticle.
Re: HDMR for police sniper?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There have been many instances where I could ID the target but without illumination I would not have been able to see the FFP reticle on low magnification.</div></div>Good point.
I agree about it being a good thing to have the ability to create contrast if necessary.
It's just that I don't like introducing a source of light that close to my eye at night. I suppose it's simply that I prefer other methods. Maybe I'm just 'old school' in that regard.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There have been many instances where I could ID the target but without illumination I would not have been able to see the FFP reticle on low magnification.</div></div>Good point.
I agree about it being a good thing to have the ability to create contrast if necessary.
It's just that I don't like introducing a source of light that close to my eye at night. I suppose it's simply that I prefer other methods. Maybe I'm just 'old school' in that regard.
Re: HDMR for police sniper?
Last weekend I shot the night headhunter COF at TVP. Great fun.
We were illuminating targets with a laser genetics green laser illuminator, which was plenty to see/ID targets, but nowhere NEAR enough light to pick up the reticle. Without the lit reticle, you were SOL, as skigolfmike (a member here) was with his HDMR.
Also, my understanding is that LE snipers tend to use low magnification to enhance their situational awareness and surroundings.
FFP reticle + low magnification = small/thin reticle
Small/thin reticle + darkness + no illumination = FAIL
Again though, I'm not an operator, so my only experience comes from playtime. Take my opinion for what you think it's worth, which probably ain't much.
Last weekend I shot the night headhunter COF at TVP. Great fun.
We were illuminating targets with a laser genetics green laser illuminator, which was plenty to see/ID targets, but nowhere NEAR enough light to pick up the reticle. Without the lit reticle, you were SOL, as skigolfmike (a member here) was with his HDMR.
Also, my understanding is that LE snipers tend to use low magnification to enhance their situational awareness and surroundings.
FFP reticle + low magnification = small/thin reticle
Small/thin reticle + darkness + no illumination = FAIL
Again though, I'm not an operator, so my only experience comes from playtime. Take my opinion for what you think it's worth, which probably ain't much.
Re: HDMR for police sniper?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> There have been many instances where I could ID the target but without illumination I would not have been able to see the FFP reticle on low magnification.</div></div>
A little bit of a thread hijack here, but that is my problem with FFP reticles overall. They get too small. Illumination is great - but I somehow manage to leave mine on, or they get inadvetantly turned on in the lodrag pack when I put them in (at least on the leupold scopes - I don't think I could manage it with the new nightforce I just got - but you only get one illumination setting with it, so it's a trade-off). They don't have anywhere near the battery life of something like an aimpoint, and if I turn it on by accident or forget to turn it off, it could be weeks in there running the battery down.
Also - at the ranges I'm using the lower magnification, I don't use holdovers. I generally lead targets using points of reference on the target, and not the tiny mil reticle that I can't see the marks on anyway (until it gets further away, in which case, turn it up where you can mil).
I can't remember a single instance with a SFP reticle where if I could see the target I couldn't see the reticle with the ambient light.
Back to the question - I don't own one, but have talked to a couple of people who are just thrilled with their HDMRs for LE work. It seems to have a great magnification range, and is nice and compact. I don't think I'd personally choose one, but others seem to be happy with them. Everything is a compromise, and with work you can overcome the limitations of the optic to work for you.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> There have been many instances where I could ID the target but without illumination I would not have been able to see the FFP reticle on low magnification.</div></div>
A little bit of a thread hijack here, but that is my problem with FFP reticles overall. They get too small. Illumination is great - but I somehow manage to leave mine on, or they get inadvetantly turned on in the lodrag pack when I put them in (at least on the leupold scopes - I don't think I could manage it with the new nightforce I just got - but you only get one illumination setting with it, so it's a trade-off). They don't have anywhere near the battery life of something like an aimpoint, and if I turn it on by accident or forget to turn it off, it could be weeks in there running the battery down.
Also - at the ranges I'm using the lower magnification, I don't use holdovers. I generally lead targets using points of reference on the target, and not the tiny mil reticle that I can't see the marks on anyway (until it gets further away, in which case, turn it up where you can mil).
I can't remember a single instance with a SFP reticle where if I could see the target I couldn't see the reticle with the ambient light.
Back to the question - I don't own one, but have talked to a couple of people who are just thrilled with their HDMRs for LE work. It seems to have a great magnification range, and is nice and compact. I don't think I'd personally choose one, but others seem to be happy with them. Everything is a compromise, and with work you can overcome the limitations of the optic to work for you.
Re: HDMR for police sniper?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Also, my understanding is that LE snipers tend to use low magnification to enhance their situational awareness and surroundings.
FFP reticle + low magnification = small/thin reticle
Small/thin reticle + darkness + no illumination = FAIL
</div></div>
Since this is brought up, It's my opinion for L/E work in urban areas where the longest shot would be about 100 yards, a SFP scope will work well in that environment with the reticle staying the same size throughout all magnifications.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Also, my understanding is that LE snipers tend to use low magnification to enhance their situational awareness and surroundings.
FFP reticle + low magnification = small/thin reticle
Small/thin reticle + darkness + no illumination = FAIL
</div></div>
Since this is brought up, It's my opinion for L/E work in urban areas where the longest shot would be about 100 yards, a SFP scope will work well in that environment with the reticle staying the same size throughout all magnifications.
Re: HDMR for police sniper?
Again with the caveat I am not a LEO sniper...
I don't see how LEOs would see much if any advantage with a FFP reticle.
Most engagements are generally well within PBR, and I can't see how it would be "prudent" for a LEO sniper to be ranging with a reticle...seems like way too much risk... Surely LEOs have lasers???
I suppose an argument could be made about multiple target engagements at various distances... FFP is nice for that. It would be quite the call out if a LEO found himself engaging targets like that, but not inconceivable.
Again with the caveat I am not a LEO sniper...
I don't see how LEOs would see much if any advantage with a FFP reticle.
Most engagements are generally well within PBR, and I can't see how it would be "prudent" for a LEO sniper to be ranging with a reticle...seems like way too much risk... Surely LEOs have lasers???
I suppose an argument could be made about multiple target engagements at various distances... FFP is nice for that. It would be quite the call out if a LEO found himself engaging targets like that, but not inconceivable.
Re: HDMR for police sniper?
I am of the opinion that the HDMR has the intrinsic quality to qualify for duty use and then some. Whether its feature set works for you is something only you can answer.
Scott
I am of the opinion that the HDMR has the intrinsic quality to qualify for duty use and then some. Whether its feature set works for you is something only you can answer.
Scott
Re: HDMR for police sniper?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">FFP reticle + low magnification = small/thin reticle
Small/thin reticle + darkness + no illumination = FAIL</div></div>
I would caution against such generalizations though. Some SFP tactical reticles are extremely thin and difficult to see in low light without illumination, despite the fact they don't "shrink" at low powers. Some FFP reticles are quite bold and easy to see, even on the low powers.
One needs to compare the actual reticles in questions as they're all different. Some comparisons will end up as you suggest, others won't.
Of course a good illumination system can make much of the above moot. One comment on that as it relates to FFP/SFP: In my opinion easily adjustable illumination brightness is important in both cases, but even more important for FFP scopes as you typically need to turn down the brightness as you increase magnification (the image gets darker and the reticle gets bigger/brighter).
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">FFP reticle + low magnification = small/thin reticle
Small/thin reticle + darkness + no illumination = FAIL</div></div>
I would caution against such generalizations though. Some SFP tactical reticles are extremely thin and difficult to see in low light without illumination, despite the fact they don't "shrink" at low powers. Some FFP reticles are quite bold and easy to see, even on the low powers.
One needs to compare the actual reticles in questions as they're all different. Some comparisons will end up as you suggest, others won't.
Of course a good illumination system can make much of the above moot. One comment on that as it relates to FFP/SFP: In my opinion easily adjustable illumination brightness is important in both cases, but even more important for FFP scopes as you typically need to turn down the brightness as you increase magnification (the image gets darker and the reticle gets bigger/brighter).
Re: HDMR for police sniper?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Again with the caveat I am not a LEO sniper...
I don't see how LEOs would see much if any advantage with a FFP reticle.
Most engagements are generally well within PBR, and I can't see how it would be "prudent" for a LEO sniper to be ranging with a reticle...seems like way too much risk... Surely LEOs have lasers???
I suppose an argument could be made about multiple target engagements at various distances... FFP is nice for that. It would be quite the call out if a LEO found himself engaging targets like that, but not inconceivable. </div></div>
The nice thing about ffp, given your argument that range finders will always work every time, is IF you do happen to miss one you don't need to do math to correct for it. Spotter calls it and you adjust. If you had a sfp scope and you were on 28 percent power it would be a bitch trying to figure out you need to hold 1.2 mils left.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Again with the caveat I am not a LEO sniper...
I don't see how LEOs would see much if any advantage with a FFP reticle.
Most engagements are generally well within PBR, and I can't see how it would be "prudent" for a LEO sniper to be ranging with a reticle...seems like way too much risk... Surely LEOs have lasers???
I suppose an argument could be made about multiple target engagements at various distances... FFP is nice for that. It would be quite the call out if a LEO found himself engaging targets like that, but not inconceivable. </div></div>
The nice thing about ffp, given your argument that range finders will always work every time, is IF you do happen to miss one you don't need to do math to correct for it. Spotter calls it and you adjust. If you had a sfp scope and you were on 28 percent power it would be a bitch trying to figure out you need to hold 1.2 mils left.
Re: HDMR for police sniper?
I appeciate the input guys. I've been running a HDMR the last couple of months now (just a loaner) and it's a hell of a scope. Personally, I feel like it's a bit much for a LE rifle. I've been considering the Vortex PST most recently.
I appeciate the input guys. I've been running a HDMR the last couple of months now (just a loaner) and it's a hell of a scope. Personally, I feel like it's a bit much for a LE rifle. I've been considering the Vortex PST most recently.
