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Re: Redding neck sizing bushing die
I don’t. Use the bushing to control the size otherwise it kind of defeats the purpose and adds a variable that may induce runout in the neck.
I don’t. Use the bushing to control the size otherwise it kind of defeats the purpose and adds a variable that may induce runout in the neck.
Re: Redding neck sizing bushing die
Precision bolt rifle I use ti-ni bushing no ball. Blasting ammo and brass I use in my LMT MWS I use a regular FL sizing die with the ball.
Precision bolt rifle I use ti-ni bushing no ball. Blasting ammo and brass I use in my LMT MWS I use a regular FL sizing die with the ball.
Re: Redding neck sizing bushing die
I find when I neck size with the bushing that is .001 less than the loaded cartridge without the expander ball the inside of the neck becomes tighter that .001,sometimes .003-.004
I find when I neck size with the bushing that is .001 less than the loaded cartridge without the expander ball the inside of the neck becomes tighter that .001,sometimes .003-.004
Re: Redding neck sizing bushing die
Unless it's gas gun brass with dinged in necks, I don't use an expander button, as a rule, any longer.
I have the Redding carbide buttons for 223, 308 and 338 for the times I need to use them and don't want to lube the inside of the necks.
For 223 and 308, I use two neck dies in tandem, one with a step down bushing and the other with the final sizing bushing.
Chris
Unless it's gas gun brass with dinged in necks, I don't use an expander button, as a rule, any longer.
I have the Redding carbide buttons for 223, 308 and 338 for the times I need to use them and don't want to lube the inside of the necks.
For 223 and 308, I use two neck dies in tandem, one with a step down bushing and the other with the final sizing bushing.
Chris
Re: Redding neck sizing bushing die
I don't NS, I FL every time and use the floating carbide ball to barely kiss the inside of the neck, concentricity is good if not better than with out the ball installed because any neck wall thickness variations are moved to the outside of the neck, expander balls get a bad name from non bushing die users, with the correct bushing installed and the floating carbide ball very concentric ammo can be made.
I don't NS, I FL every time and use the floating carbide ball to barely kiss the inside of the neck, concentricity is good if not better than with out the ball installed because any neck wall thickness variations are moved to the outside of the neck, expander balls get a bad name from non bushing die users, with the correct bushing installed and the floating carbide ball very concentric ammo can be made.
Re: Redding neck sizing bushing die
Redding also makes FL dies that utilize the bushing (no ball)-Competition Dies. This way you can control neck tension and full size in one pull. I use it on my 284 and love it.
Redding also makes FL dies that utilize the bushing (no ball)-Competition Dies. This way you can control neck tension and full size in one pull. I use it on my 284 and love it.
Re: Redding neck sizing bushing die
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: m14er</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Redding also makes FL dies that utilize the bushing (no ball)-Competition Dies. This way you can control neck tension and full size in one pull. I use it on my 284 and love it. </div></div>
Same here... I've had great success using the above combo.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: m14er</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Redding also makes FL dies that utilize the bushing (no ball)-Competition Dies. This way you can control neck tension and full size in one pull. I use it on my 284 and love it. </div></div>
Same here... I've had great success using the above combo.
Re: Redding neck sizing bushing die
If you get the perfect bushing size the expander is not needed.
If you get the perfect bushing size the expander is not needed.
Re: Redding neck sizing bushing die
But...as perazz states above...sometimes as the brass work hardens the diameter changes. It is wise to have 2 or 3 on either side of the desired diameter and use the one that gives you the best final diameter. JMHO
But...as perazz states above...sometimes as the brass work hardens the diameter changes. It is wise to have 2 or 3 on either side of the desired diameter and use the one that gives you the best final diameter. JMHO
Re: Redding neck sizing bushing die
Thank God for this forum!! I just got a typs S set today and am going crazy...
I have never used a bushing type die (very new to reloading) so am I doing this right? I seated a bullet, used a mic to measure the thickness and subtract .001 and that is the bushing size to use? And from reading above, I dont need to use an expander ball/button...like I always have for reloading?
Thank God for this forum!! I just got a typs S set today and am going crazy...
I have never used a bushing type die (very new to reloading) so am I doing this right? I seated a bullet, used a mic to measure the thickness and subtract .001 and that is the bushing size to use? And from reading above, I dont need to use an expander ball/button...like I always have for reloading?
Re: Redding neck sizing bushing die
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: perazzisc3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I find when I neck size with the bushing that is .001 less than the loaded cartridge without the expander ball the inside of the neck becomes tighter that .001,sometimes .003-.004 </div></div>
Have you seen German Salazar's article? Two-step sizing It explores a lot of interesting ideas and tests some ideas that have been floating around out there. All of his reloading articles are instructive and very well researched and tested.
HTH!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: perazzisc3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I find when I neck size with the bushing that is .001 less than the loaded cartridge without the expander ball the inside of the neck becomes tighter that .001,sometimes .003-.004 </div></div>
Have you seen German Salazar's article? Two-step sizing It explores a lot of interesting ideas and tests some ideas that have been floating around out there. All of his reloading articles are instructive and very well researched and tested.
HTH!
Re: Redding neck sizing bushing die
I also do two step sizing, neck first and then FL, without going more than 5 thou in a step. No expander ball required.
I keep a 21st Century expander die for any bent necks, and also for neck turning.
I also do two step sizing, neck first and then FL, without going more than 5 thou in a step. No expander ball required.
I keep a 21st Century expander die for any bent necks, and also for neck turning.
Re: Redding neck sizing bushing die
<span style="font-style: italic">"If you get the perfect bushing size the expander is not needed."</span>
Well... that's true... as stated. IF they are totally consistant in neck thickness. And it remains true IF your cases never get work hardened. And if they never lengthen during use. But ...?
<span style="font-style: italic">"If you get the perfect bushing size the expander is not needed."</span>
Well... that's true... as stated. IF they are totally consistant in neck thickness. And it remains true IF your cases never get work hardened. And if they never lengthen during use. But ...?
Re: Redding neck sizing bushing die
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't NS, I FL every time and use the floating carbide ball to barely kiss the inside of the neck, concentricity is good if not better than with out the ball installed because any neck wall thickness variations are moved to the outside of the neck, expander balls get a bad name from non bushing die users, with the correct bushing installed and the floating carbide ball very concentric ammo can be made. </div></div>
I'm with you most of the way but I prefer to use a Sinclair Expander die rather than the expander "ball" in the sizing die. I am of the school that a "ball", when drawn through the neck is free(er) to follow the variations in brass composition than a mandrel like that used in the sinclair. Totally agree that using the proper bushing size, along with neck turning to give a more uniform neck thickness, pretty much precludes the need to "move a lot of metal" when expanding. With my method, for me, it's more of a check on what I can expect for neck tension and insertion pressure when seating a bullet.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't NS, I FL every time and use the floating carbide ball to barely kiss the inside of the neck, concentricity is good if not better than with out the ball installed because any neck wall thickness variations are moved to the outside of the neck, expander balls get a bad name from non bushing die users, with the correct bushing installed and the floating carbide ball very concentric ammo can be made. </div></div>
I'm with you most of the way but I prefer to use a Sinclair Expander die rather than the expander "ball" in the sizing die. I am of the school that a "ball", when drawn through the neck is free(er) to follow the variations in brass composition than a mandrel like that used in the sinclair. Totally agree that using the proper bushing size, along with neck turning to give a more uniform neck thickness, pretty much precludes the need to "move a lot of metal" when expanding. With my method, for me, it's more of a check on what I can expect for neck tension and insertion pressure when seating a bullet.
Re: Redding neck sizing bushing die
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuzzball</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-style: italic">"If you get the perfect bushing size the expander is not needed."</span>
Well... that's true... as stated. IF they are totally consistant in neck thickness. And it remains true IF your cases never get work hardened. And if they never lengthen during use. But ...? </div></div>
If you reload your cases enough times no matter what re-sizing method is used the brass will get work hardened. I have a batch of 500 of 30 year old R&P cases that are showing increasing signs of fatigue. I have reloaded these cases 10-15 times now and the fatigue shows up at the case mouths as micro cracks during inspection prior to cleaning and prepping. Some will go away when trimmed but the rest I toss out.
I have seen no reason to use an expander ball with cases in good condition. I use a Redding Competition neck bushing die for the first neck sizing and a Redding Type S full length bushing die for the final neck sizing and full length re-size. I use a modified Dillon 550 press setup for use as a single stage press.
I do not turn the necks on my brass and most of it is pretty old. Typical bullet and neck run-out as shown on my Sinclair concentricity gauge is 0.0005"-0.001" I do have some cases that have very uneven case neck thickness and these cases when loaded can show up to 0.002 TIR at the neck but these rounds seem to shoot just as well as the rounds with lower TIR. I use these hand-loads to shoot targets at 600-1,000 yards with no problems in my .308Win.
A couple weeks ago my son who is a new shooter (shooting only occasionally for less than one year) was able to reliably hit 0.1 mil targets at 800 yards off a bipod with my stock action (O.K. I installed a Huber 2-stage trigger set to 2lbs.) AICS/5R rifle. So you definitely have no need to use an expander ball to get good loaded rounds with a bushing die setup if loaded thoughtfully.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuzzball</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-style: italic">"If you get the perfect bushing size the expander is not needed."</span>
Well... that's true... as stated. IF they are totally consistant in neck thickness. And it remains true IF your cases never get work hardened. And if they never lengthen during use. But ...? </div></div>
If you reload your cases enough times no matter what re-sizing method is used the brass will get work hardened. I have a batch of 500 of 30 year old R&P cases that are showing increasing signs of fatigue. I have reloaded these cases 10-15 times now and the fatigue shows up at the case mouths as micro cracks during inspection prior to cleaning and prepping. Some will go away when trimmed but the rest I toss out.
I have seen no reason to use an expander ball with cases in good condition. I use a Redding Competition neck bushing die for the first neck sizing and a Redding Type S full length bushing die for the final neck sizing and full length re-size. I use a modified Dillon 550 press setup for use as a single stage press.
I do not turn the necks on my brass and most of it is pretty old. Typical bullet and neck run-out as shown on my Sinclair concentricity gauge is 0.0005"-0.001" I do have some cases that have very uneven case neck thickness and these cases when loaded can show up to 0.002 TIR at the neck but these rounds seem to shoot just as well as the rounds with lower TIR. I use these hand-loads to shoot targets at 600-1,000 yards with no problems in my .308Win.
A couple weeks ago my son who is a new shooter (shooting only occasionally for less than one year) was able to reliably hit 0.1 mil targets at 800 yards off a bipod with my stock action (O.K. I installed a Huber 2-stage trigger set to 2lbs.) AICS/5R rifle. So you definitely have no need to use an expander ball to get good loaded rounds with a bushing die setup if loaded thoughtfully.
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