Where can I find who or what entity I am required to show my stamps too, oR, let confiscate or take possession of my items. Say a cop thinks he knows the law and directs me to surrender my can because he/she thinks it's illegal to have.
Suppressors Legal mumbo jumbo
- Thread starter netranger6
- Start date
Re: Legal mumbo jumbo
tell him to call the DA and ATF... there's nothing you can show "him", if he really thinks they're illegal...
tell him to call the DA and ATF... there's nothing you can show "him", if he really thinks they're illegal...
Re: Legal mumbo jumbo
now that being said... I've never been asked by anyone... including federal agents... and I'm a dick... so you'd probably have to either really piss someone off, or find the dumbest LEO in TX.
now that being said... I've never been asked by anyone... including federal agents... and I'm a dick... so you'd probably have to either really piss someone off, or find the dumbest LEO in TX.
Re: Legal mumbo jumbo
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: netranger6</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Say a cop thinks he knows the law and directs me to surrender my can because he/she thinks it's illegal to have. </div></div>I would comply. Think about it for a minute...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: netranger6</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Say a cop thinks he knows the law and directs me to surrender my can because he/she thinks it's illegal to have. </div></div>I would comply. Think about it for a minute...
Re: Legal mumbo jumbo
Guys chill. I'm looking for actual references if you know them, or can link them up. I carry copies of stamps when I possession of my items. Just want to be clear about these situations if they ever arise.
Guys chill. I'm looking for actual references if you know them, or can link them up. I carry copies of stamps when I possession of my items. Just want to be clear about these situations if they ever arise.
Re: Legal mumbo jumbo
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: netranger6</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Guys chill. Chime in with legit references.</div></div>If you want a specific answer you have to ask a specific question.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: netranger6</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Guys chill. Chime in with legit references.</div></div>If you want a specific answer you have to ask a specific question.
Re: Legal mumbo jumbo
we are... there's nothing you're gonna show an LEO that will "convince" them that you know the law better than they do... comply... as soon as someone higher up the food chain sees the case, you'll get your shit back w/ an apology... on the way OFF chance that this were to ever actually happen
we are... there's nothing you're gonna show an LEO that will "convince" them that you know the law better than they do... comply... as soon as someone higher up the food chain sees the case, you'll get your shit back w/ an apology... on the way OFF chance that this were to ever actually happen
Re: Legal mumbo jumbo
Da won't let that happen, let's say they did try to confiscate your can(or any other NFA item) Then they would be in some deep shit for illegal possession of a class III weapon. Unless it's ATF agent or even a chief of police, I'll show them my stamp. Other than that, other than that, I might tell you to f**k off if you think what I'm doing is illegal. Like I told on officer once, Do you want to waste my time and yours, let's do it. I'll be out in time for breakfast.......But that's just me.
Da won't let that happen, let's say they did try to confiscate your can(or any other NFA item) Then they would be in some deep shit for illegal possession of a class III weapon. Unless it's ATF agent or even a chief of police, I'll show them my stamp. Other than that, other than that, I might tell you to f**k off if you think what I'm doing is illegal. Like I told on officer once, Do you want to waste my time and yours, let's do it. I'll be out in time for breakfast.......But that's just me.
Re: Legal mumbo jumbo
specifically speaking... your tax stamp is a TAX document and doesn't have to be shown to anyone except a treasury agent ( BATF is said agent )... but, it's a whole lot easier to show it to any LEO that asks... very few, if any will, then when they see it, they'll leave you alone....
on the off chance that you find the one total retard... he can detain you, but that's why we have checks and balances.. ie District Attorneys, judges, defense attorneys... supervising LEOs
specifically speaking... your tax stamp is a TAX document and doesn't have to be shown to anyone except a treasury agent ( BATF is said agent )... but, it's a whole lot easier to show it to any LEO that asks... very few, if any will, then when they see it, they'll leave you alone....
on the off chance that you find the one total retard... he can detain you, but that's why we have checks and balances.. ie District Attorneys, judges, defense attorneys... supervising LEOs
Re: Legal mumbo jumbo
What do you mean by 'references'?
What are you asking: Whether there is a law requiring you to show the stamp? Or a law which states the penalty for refusing to show the stamp? Or precedent allowing you to refuse to show a stamp? Or whether there is a statute, or case law, saying that you can lawfully refuse to surrender an item? Are you asking about permission to refuse a lawful order, or about a defense to refusal of a command by a police officer?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lazy21</div><div class="ubbcode-body">let's say they did try to confiscate your can(or any other NFA item) Then they would be in some deep shit for illegal possession of a class III weapon. </div></div>BTW Lazy, if you think a police officer must amend your trust to become a trustee, or call an ATF agent before he takes your can, you may be in for a nasty surprise.
What do you mean by 'references'?
What are you asking: Whether there is a law requiring you to show the stamp? Or a law which states the penalty for refusing to show the stamp? Or precedent allowing you to refuse to show a stamp? Or whether there is a statute, or case law, saying that you can lawfully refuse to surrender an item? Are you asking about permission to refuse a lawful order, or about a defense to refusal of a command by a police officer?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lazy21</div><div class="ubbcode-body">let's say they did try to confiscate your can(or any other NFA item) Then they would be in some deep shit for illegal possession of a class III weapon. </div></div>BTW Lazy, if you think a police officer must amend your trust to become a trustee, or call an ATF agent before he takes your can, you may be in for a nasty surprise.
Re: Legal mumbo jumbo
in more than than 10 years of owning suppressors, traveling with suppressors and being seen using suppressors, the closest I have ever come to someone not knowing was in an airport with two TSA agents.
Long story short, they saw the can, whispered to each it was a "silencer" and asked why I had it. " because i can" was the answer, at which point i told them it was wrapped in the paperwork. they bumped into each other for a few minutes not knowing what to do, I said, go get a cop, and they let me walk as they should. It happened once and only once and I have flown with suppressors more than 50 times if not 100. I used to fly with just a suppressor between CO and TX all the time, never had an issue.
No where has anyone ever questioned the legality of having it, except for that one day and it was shortly after 9/11 when they had a blitz of new hires and initially changed things. On the same trip at a different airport i never got a second look. In fact I used to fly out of Westchester NY with them all the time, even there no problem and NY can't have them.
in more than than 10 years of owning suppressors, traveling with suppressors and being seen using suppressors, the closest I have ever come to someone not knowing was in an airport with two TSA agents.
Long story short, they saw the can, whispered to each it was a "silencer" and asked why I had it. " because i can" was the answer, at which point i told them it was wrapped in the paperwork. they bumped into each other for a few minutes not knowing what to do, I said, go get a cop, and they let me walk as they should. It happened once and only once and I have flown with suppressors more than 50 times if not 100. I used to fly with just a suppressor between CO and TX all the time, never had an issue.
No where has anyone ever questioned the legality of having it, except for that one day and it was shortly after 9/11 when they had a blitz of new hires and initially changed things. On the same trip at a different airport i never got a second look. In fact I used to fly out of Westchester NY with them all the time, even there no problem and NY can't have them.
Re: Legal mumbo jumbo
from the ATF website... found here http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/national-firearms-act-firearms.html#owner-evidence
Q: Does the owner of a registered NFA firearm have to have any evidence to show it is registered lawfully to him or her?
Yes. The approved application received from ATF serves as evidence of registration of the NFA firearm in the owner’s name. This document must be kept available for inspection by ATF officers. It is suggested that a photocopy of the approved application be carried by the owner when the weapon is being transported.
you'll notice that it says that the form "must be kept available for inspection by ATF officers".. it does NOT say any LEO..
also not that "it is suggested that a photocopy"... " be carried"... but this NOT required...
as I said... the tax stamp is a tax document, so ATF ( as the agency responsible for collecting the NFA tax) can inspect the stamp, to ensure compliance... local LEO doesn't have that authority ( but why not show it to locals if it makes your life easier)... also even though there is no requirement to carry a copy of the stamp, again, it can make YOUR life easier, in that you don't have to be detained by ATF agents while you're transported to where the stamp is stored... BUT, they CAN still make you show the original, IF they choose...
from the ATF website... found here http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/national-firearms-act-firearms.html#owner-evidence
Q: Does the owner of a registered NFA firearm have to have any evidence to show it is registered lawfully to him or her?
Yes. The approved application received from ATF serves as evidence of registration of the NFA firearm in the owner’s name. This document must be kept available for inspection by ATF officers. It is suggested that a photocopy of the approved application be carried by the owner when the weapon is being transported.
you'll notice that it says that the form "must be kept available for inspection by ATF officers".. it does NOT say any LEO..
also not that "it is suggested that a photocopy"... " be carried"... but this NOT required...
as I said... the tax stamp is a tax document, so ATF ( as the agency responsible for collecting the NFA tax) can inspect the stamp, to ensure compliance... local LEO doesn't have that authority ( but why not show it to locals if it makes your life easier)... also even though there is no requirement to carry a copy of the stamp, again, it can make YOUR life easier, in that you don't have to be detained by ATF agents while you're transported to where the stamp is stored... BUT, they CAN still make you show the original, IF they choose...
Re: Legal mumbo jumbo
specific enough?
specific enough?
Re: Legal mumbo jumbo
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Miles2go</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why don't you just ask the Sheriff, Chief of Police, and whoever you can talk to in the State/Highway Patrol?</div></div>
because they won't know... most LE knows very little about NFA
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Miles2go</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why don't you just ask the Sheriff, Chief of Police, and whoever you can talk to in the State/Highway Patrol?</div></div>
because they won't know... most LE knows very little about NFA
Re: Legal mumbo jumbo
if you are a member at texasguntalk, pm txinvestigator.
if you are a member at texasguntalk, pm txinvestigator.
Re: Legal mumbo jumbo
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Force_Multiplier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">from the ATF website... found here http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/national-firearms-act-firearms.html#owner-evidence
Q: Does the owner of a registered NFA firearm have to have any evidence to show it is registered lawfully to him or her?
Yes. The approved application received from ATF serves as evidence of registration of the NFA firearm in the owner’s name. This document must be kept available for inspection by ATF officers. It is suggested that a photocopy of the approved application be carried by the owner when the weapon is being transported.
you'll notice that it says that the form "must be kept available for inspection by ATF officers".. it does NOT say any LEO..
also not that "it is suggested that a photocopy"... " be carried"... but this NOT required...
as I said... the tax stamp is a tax document, so ATF ( as the agency responsible for collecting the NFA tax) can inspect the stamp, to ensure compliance... local LEO doesn't have that authority ( but why not show it to locals if it makes your life easier)... also even though there is no requirement to carry a copy of the stamp, again, it can make YOUR life easier, in that you don't have to be detained by ATF agents while you're transported to where the stamp is stored... BUT, they CAN still make you show the original, IF they choose...</div></div>
Thanks for this.
For all the years I owned machine guns here in Maryland, I would complete the annual Maryland State Police registration form except in the space about "previous owner." In this space I would write "privileged tax information IAW NFA 1934" and mail in the the form with my ten bucks. Never heard a word of complaint.
The cops know they're asking for information they're not privy to.
Fuck 'em.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Force_Multiplier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">from the ATF website... found here http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/national-firearms-act-firearms.html#owner-evidence
Q: Does the owner of a registered NFA firearm have to have any evidence to show it is registered lawfully to him or her?
Yes. The approved application received from ATF serves as evidence of registration of the NFA firearm in the owner’s name. This document must be kept available for inspection by ATF officers. It is suggested that a photocopy of the approved application be carried by the owner when the weapon is being transported.
you'll notice that it says that the form "must be kept available for inspection by ATF officers".. it does NOT say any LEO..
also not that "it is suggested that a photocopy"... " be carried"... but this NOT required...
as I said... the tax stamp is a tax document, so ATF ( as the agency responsible for collecting the NFA tax) can inspect the stamp, to ensure compliance... local LEO doesn't have that authority ( but why not show it to locals if it makes your life easier)... also even though there is no requirement to carry a copy of the stamp, again, it can make YOUR life easier, in that you don't have to be detained by ATF agents while you're transported to where the stamp is stored... BUT, they CAN still make you show the original, IF they choose...</div></div>
Thanks for this.
For all the years I owned machine guns here in Maryland, I would complete the annual Maryland State Police registration form except in the space about "previous owner." In this space I would write "privileged tax information IAW NFA 1934" and mail in the the form with my ten bucks. Never heard a word of complaint.
The cops know they're asking for information they're not privy to.
Fuck 'em.
Re: Legal mumbo jumbo
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Force_Multiplier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">from the ATF website... found here http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/national-firearms-act-firearms.html#owner-evidence
Q: Does the owner of a registered NFA firearm have to have any evidence to show it is registered lawfully to him or her?
Yes. The approved application received from ATF serves as evidence of registration of the NFA firearm in the owner’s name. This document must be kept available for inspection by ATF officers. It is suggested that a photocopy of the approved application be carried by the owner when the weapon is being transported.
you'll notice that it says that the form "must be kept available for inspection by ATF officers".. it does NOT say any LEO..
also not that "it is suggested that a photocopy"... " be carried"... but this NOT required...
as I said... the tax stamp is a tax document, so ATF ( as the agency responsible for collecting the NFA tax) can inspect the stamp, to ensure compliance... local LEO doesn't have that authority ( but why not show it to locals if it makes your life easier)... also even though there is no requirement to carry a copy of the stamp, again, it can make YOUR life easier, in that you don't have to be detained by ATF agents while you're transported to where the stamp is stored... BUT, they CAN still make you show the original, IF they choose... </div></div>
That works.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Force_Multiplier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">from the ATF website... found here http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/national-firearms-act-firearms.html#owner-evidence
Q: Does the owner of a registered NFA firearm have to have any evidence to show it is registered lawfully to him or her?
Yes. The approved application received from ATF serves as evidence of registration of the NFA firearm in the owner’s name. This document must be kept available for inspection by ATF officers. It is suggested that a photocopy of the approved application be carried by the owner when the weapon is being transported.
you'll notice that it says that the form "must be kept available for inspection by ATF officers".. it does NOT say any LEO..
also not that "it is suggested that a photocopy"... " be carried"... but this NOT required...
as I said... the tax stamp is a tax document, so ATF ( as the agency responsible for collecting the NFA tax) can inspect the stamp, to ensure compliance... local LEO doesn't have that authority ( but why not show it to locals if it makes your life easier)... also even though there is no requirement to carry a copy of the stamp, again, it can make YOUR life easier, in that you don't have to be detained by ATF agents while you're transported to where the stamp is stored... BUT, they CAN still make you show the original, IF they choose... </div></div>
That works.
Re: Legal mumbo jumbo
I have been pulled over my TX DPS and while they were asking if I had any gun,bombs or large amounts of us currency.I told the Trooper I had my SBR and my Suppressor. That is when the fun started. I was pulled out while they examaned my items. They made alot of Hoopla and they saw my binder with my stamps and trust papers, they called their dispatch, a senior trooper showed up. After 1 1/2 hours in Brewster County TX the troopers and the Sheriff who says "Those Items are Illegal in his county." I was able to call the local El Paso ATF field office only 250miles away so they could tell the whole lot of cops to piss off and that all my info was in good order. Kinda wish the Sheriff would have taken them would have been nice to own a County.
I have been pulled over my TX DPS and while they were asking if I had any gun,bombs or large amounts of us currency.I told the Trooper I had my SBR and my Suppressor. That is when the fun started. I was pulled out while they examaned my items. They made alot of Hoopla and they saw my binder with my stamps and trust papers, they called their dispatch, a senior trooper showed up. After 1 1/2 hours in Brewster County TX the troopers and the Sheriff who says "Those Items are Illegal in his county." I was able to call the local El Paso ATF field office only 250miles away so they could tell the whole lot of cops to piss off and that all my info was in good order. Kinda wish the Sheriff would have taken them would have been nice to own a County.
Re: Legal mumbo jumbo
In a lot of states, MGs, SBRs, SBSs and suppressors are illegal, unless they are correctly registered with the feds. So the only way to prove that the item is legal is to provide proof of registration.
Also as for an officer seizing the item as evidence and getting in trouble with ATF, that's not going to happen. If the officer seized the item because it was believed to be contraband (i.e. not able to prove registration), they acted in good faith believing the item was possessed illegally.
I'm not saying the item won't be returned after it is determined the item is legit, but the officer won't get in trouble for seizing it. Kind of like an officer possessing drugs which they seized believing them to be illegal and taking them and putting them in evidence.
In a lot of states, MGs, SBRs, SBSs and suppressors are illegal, unless they are correctly registered with the feds. So the only way to prove that the item is legal is to provide proof of registration.
Also as for an officer seizing the item as evidence and getting in trouble with ATF, that's not going to happen. If the officer seized the item because it was believed to be contraband (i.e. not able to prove registration), they acted in good faith believing the item was possessed illegally.
I'm not saying the item won't be returned after it is determined the item is legit, but the officer won't get in trouble for seizing it. Kind of like an officer possessing drugs which they seized believing them to be illegal and taking them and putting them in evidence.
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