new to the forums, and already asking questions

[tript2009]

hey guys the name is Ben. I am currently working for one of the casinos in ohio, and work as a reserve deputy for one of ohio's sheriffs office. I have been hunting and shooting all of my life, and have now ventured into a "new" area of shooting for me at least, and one you guys know very well: "long range" shooting

Last month, i went to the shooting range, and before i walked out of the door with my glock 22 and remington 870 express mag, my dad handed me one of his guns to take with me, handed me a box of ammo, and said "its time for you to try out something a bit more skill oriented"

I've competed in shooting competitions with my glock often doing very very well, but this new gun (1903 springfield 30-06) opened my eyes to the idea of long range shooting

I am now in the process of aquiring my first rifle, and from the looks of it, will be using it on my office's SRT (Special Response Team) unit. I have a nice peice of glass already, and am looking at a few options for a rifle.

One that has caught my attention, and after shooting have fell in love with, is the Savage Axis XP. I got the chance to shoot it at a friends' place, at a target about 100 yards away. After a little practice i had no problem putting 5 rounds in a 2" target at 100 yards.

My question is, will this gun be able to keep up with my needs, or do i need to look somewhere else? i wont be shooting anything beyond 300 yards, but would one day like to get to distances a little, little farther maybe 400 yards or so, but definitely nothing farther. The gun needs to be consistent obviously, as if i do ever need to use it for work -god forbid- i need it to be on point. Will this work, or should i look at something else?

I look forward to hearing from you all! happy shooting!

 

[dmpowder]

Re: new to the forums, and already asking questions

300-400 is a far cry from long range shooting. Axis is a nice rifle but if you plan on really getting into true long range shooting get a different rifle. No after market for the axis line as of yet.

What was the size of group you shot?

 

[Topstrap]

Re: new to the forums, and already asking questions

You'd be OK with a Savage but might look at one of the other models than the AXIS. Plenty of ready to go versions, reasonably priced as far as being a competitive ready to run gun can be for this LR game in the Savage lineup. Another nice thing is being able to assemble/work on them yourself.

You're not that far away, if interested plan a trip down to Rayners and we'll let you try our Savage Mod 11's in 260 out to 1000 yards. The matches are the 4th Sunday of each month and spectators are more than welcome. I'm sure TVP would also welcome you to watch and ask questions. Both Rayners and TVP are down near Cambridge and have a lot of experienced shooters that will help with setting you up and letting you try various types of equipment. You mentioned 400 yards being your max, you hear that distant "ding" a few seconds after shooting and you'll get hooked.

BTW, welcome to the Hide, lots of knowledge and info on here if you do a bit of searching.

Topstrap

 

[tript2009]

Re: new to the forums, and already asking questions

well you guys both mentioned to look at other rifles: what else would you suggest in a similar price range? like i said: 400 yards is the farthest distance i would be shooting, and im planning either 260 or 308... not sure yet. I would like to stay under 500 if possible, but also need to have something capable of putting a bullet through a quarter consistently

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dmpowder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">300-400 is a far cry from long range shooting. Axis is a nice rifle but if you plan on really getting into true long range shooting get a different rifle. No after market for the axis line as of yet.

What was the size of group you shot? </div></div>

I definitely understand that 400 yards isnt near anything most consider long range. I was simply using the terminology as we consider it in most law enforcement. The average "sniper shot" in law enforcement is 68 yards, so 400 yards for law enforcement gets to be long range

due to it being used in law enforcement, i wont be doing much modification after a scope: its turns into a "device that was made to take the suspects life blah blah blah" so modification needs to stay to a minimum. When i shot it, mind you it was 270win, not 308 or 260, but i was able to put 5 rounds into a 2" bulls eye after only squeezing 2 rounds out of the gun beforehand, and it would have been a 1 1/4' diameter had it not been for one stray round.

 

[tript2009]

Re: new to the forums, and already asking questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Topstrap</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

You mentioned 400 yards being your max, you hear that distant "ding" a few seconds after shooting and you'll get hooked.

Topstrap </div></div>

Rayners is about 45 minutes from the sheriff's office i work for, so im down there quite often. I love that ding, as ive gotten it with the 30-06 a few times. but yes: 400 yards will be about where i stop: if i plan on shooting past that, i'll end up pulling out the 30-06. at this point im simply more comfortable with it. However, i want a gun that would be reliable if i did want to reach out that far

 

[red6actual]

Re: new to the forums, and already asking questions

I would recommend the Remington 700 LTR in .308, a bit more than $500 however the 20" barrel is nice and mine was a tack driver out of the box, plus with the .308 there is a wide range of factory loaded ammo options as you mentioned it may be used on duty.

 

[STR]

Re: new to the forums, and already asking questions

A lot of times we think we can't spend x amount more on something until we see a difference. Then we seem to find the way to save our bucks for what we truly want. Look at all your options before you spend any money. Savage has many models to chose from. Remington has two I would consider if I were to leave them in factory configurations. FNH is another one to consider, the PBR in 308 to be exact. Tikka is another good shooting, out of the box rifle. Again, take your time, and best of luck. Welcome to SH.

 

[tript2009]

Re: new to the forums, and already asking questions

thanks for the help guys. i will definitely be sticking with the 308 for sure, after looking at ammo prices, match grade ammo is almost nonexistent for .270... So from what ive gotten i should be looking at:

remington 700 LTR
Savage rifles
Tikka rifles, but what models?
FN PBR


anything else to add to the list? thanks a bunch guys i love the help! keep it coming!

 

[Joebill]

Re: new to the forums, and already asking questions

I thought I wouldn't change my stock rem 700 in 308 then I took a 2 day Long Range class. We shot from 100 to 800 yards. That was all it took to start wanting to change things. Remington 700 is easy to get anything for good luck and welcome.

 

[tript2009]

Re: new to the forums, and already asking questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Indshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I thought I wouldn't change my stock rem 700 in 308 then I took a 2 day Long Range class. We shot from 100 to 800 yards. That was all it took to start wanting to change things. Remington 700 is easy to get anything for good luck and welcome. </div></div>

i would love to modify a rifle, problem is as i have said in my other posts, that i simply can't due to the rifle being used for work also. If i purchase one for strictly home/personal use, then it will definitely be modified.

 

[2brothers641]

Re: new to the forums, and already asking questions

Savage 10 Precision Carbine would be a good choice. Its a little more than what you want to spend, but is an accurate rifle.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: new to the forums, and already asking questions

Second that. The 10PC is definitely something you'd use and like a lot, and for a long time.

The Axis is an excellent choice for what it's designed to do; take deer with a minimal outlay. But it's already outclassed once one even thinks of the word 'precision'.

I'd not allow my department to make me use a personally owned firearm for law enforcement. If they're serious about their commitment to liability and professionalism, they will cough up the bucks and the responsibilty and provide one that is deparment property. Putting you in that seat leaves you and them wide open to risk of the sort that makes tort lawyers rub hands togother briskly.

Greg

 

[tript2009]

Re: new to the forums, and already asking questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I'd not allow my department to make me use a personally owned firearm for law enforcement. If they're serious about their commitment to liability and professionalism, they will cough up the bucks and the responsibilty and provide one that is deparment property. Putting you in that seat leaves you and them wide open to risk of the sort that makes tort lawyers rub hands togother briskly.

Greg </div></div>

my thoughts exactly, but i am simply following what our department policy is, therefor i would be covered under any law suit, and the only possible outcry for a lawsuit would be at the department itself. im simply doing what our policy says to do...

A lot of what has been posted is out of my price range: although i understand what everyone here is saying, and i appreciate it all. trust me, later down the road when i am purchasing a rifle for personal use, i will be sure to reference this page, and will be looking at one of these rifles for purchase. However, with the situation i am in, what would you guys recommend?

one thing i ran across while doing some of my own research is the remington 770. obviously i know its no 700, but how accurate and reliable are these?

 

[tript2009]

Re: new to the forums, and already asking questions

and again, remember my original post: im not trying to stick bullets through the same hole at 800 yards, im simply looking to be able to consistently hit a head target not much greater than 300, 400 yards at the absolute farthest.

 

[Topstrap]

Re: new to the forums, and already asking questions

The one and only Rem 770 I've handled was one of the worst feeling actions I've ever cycled. If you have to stay in that budget and you're planning on someday down the road get something better suited to LR then possibly the Axis would work for you and be my choice over the 770. Have you considered that in a 223? Then you'd be able to still easily shoot well beyond the distances you're mentioning and also be able to use the same rounds as the forces AR guns. Recoil would be a lot less than an unbraked/lightweight 308 and accuracy usually increases for most shooters with smaller calibers until they gain a lot of experience behind the bigger calibers.

Seems odd that the force would want you to purchase your own weapon, what if you left the force then they'd be without a gun and someone trained to use it? Also I'd not think price would be top concern when you're going to be using this tool to end a dangerous situation. You don't need top of the line equipment but I'd see what is being used at LR matches because those guys use what works to hit small targets consistently at the distances you mentioned.

With human lives depending on your skills and your guns reliability I'd still consider moving up a bit more towards the better versions of the Savages. It might only take a couple raffles/car washes/fundraisers to get the extra $500.00 to step up to a model that is ready to go and is proven. If we miss a target, big deal we get a ZERO for that shot and try again. If you miss a target an innocent person may pay the price.

Just my thoughts,

Topstrap

 

[Sonic Crack]

Re: new to the forums, and already asking questions

maybe its just me but im botherd by the fact that your going to put peoples lives in your hands and try to do it as cheap as you can but get a better rifle for your own personal use. I would recommend you do nothing of the sort.
I think I would rather take my chances on my own with a crook than a ill experienced shooter with sub par equipment

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: new to the forums, and already asking questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1903me</div><div class="ubbcode-body">hey guys the name is Ben. I am currently working for one of the casinos in ohio, and work as a reserve deputy for one of ohio's sheriffs office. I have been hunting and shooting all of my life, and have now ventured into a "new" area of shooting for me at least, and one you guys know very well: "long range" shooting.............

I am now in the process of aquiring my first rifle, and from the looks of it, will be using it on my office's SRT (Special Response Team) unit. I have a nice peice of glass already, and am looking at a few options for a rifle. </div></div>

So you are brand new to precision rifle, a reserve deputy, and you are already getting dropped on your department's SRT?

For some reason my BS detector just pegged.

However on the odd chance that you "volunteer" on one of those departments that do stupid shit like that, let me give you a tiny bit of advice.

Get a Remington 700 LTR. Top it with a Leupold VX-Patrol 3-9x and then take it to your state's Police Sniper Course.

Attempting to do this "low-buck" will make you look like a fool, place people's lives at risk, open you up to multi-million dollar lawsuits and possibly land YOU PERSONALLY in Federal Court.

We see a lot of internet commando's crash and burn here. Don't be that guy. If you are serious and come humble, then you will get a TON of good information. If you come on here like a Mall Ninja, you are going to get stomped.

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: new to the forums, and already asking questions

What Sheriff's Office are you a reserve for?

 

[39-Ret]

Re: new to the forums, and already asking questions

*1 for what LoneWolfUSMC said. Sounds like a wanabee to me.

Maybe I'm wrong but being a retired Deputy Sheriff in Ohio it just does not sound right to me..

 

[fdkay]

Re: new to the forums, and already asking questions

I will go on good faith that you are being straightforward.
I will tell you this:
I completed a basic sniper/observer course with a savage 10PC. The rifle is absolutely capable. I was also smart enough to take a PAST recoil shield with me and use it for the entire course.

Firing 4 or 5 rounds out of a fairly light rifle from the prone position is not bad. Firing 60 or 80 in one day is another story. This goes for the LTR also.

I use my own rifle for work. It is not uncommon.
I started with a Savage 12 that I rebarreled with a lothar-walther .308 barrel. I now run a Remington 5R with enhancements.

You say you have a "good piece of glass", what qualifies to you as good?
You CAN get by with a new Falcon Menace with illuminated reticle. That's 400 bones. Realistically, you should look to better quality like a Leupold VX R patrol or Weaver Tactical as a base line. Now you are talking 550-680 bones.

As far as rifles goes, this will fit the bill. Come with a very good trigger, exceptionally well made rifle. The stock sucks, but can be replaced later.
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/...8+Winchester+Varminter20"+Heavy+Blued+BarrelH

 

[tript2009]

Re: new to the forums, and already asking questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sonic Crack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">maybe its just me but im botherd by the fact that your going to put peoples lives in your hands and try to do it as cheap as you can but get a better rifle for your own personal use. I would recommend you do nothing of the sort.
I think I would rather take my chances on my own with a crook than a ill experienced shooter with sub par equipment </div></div>

i dont want this to be taken the wrong way, and i think its going there. i came here to learn and not to be a jackass. If i have to spend the money so be it, but i wanted to toss around ideas for spending the money. i dont want everyone getting upset over someone asking question like this.

what i have gathered from this thread, is that im going to be spending over 500 bucks for a gun that will new suit my needs. That was one of the original questions i had, and that has clearly been answered. I dont want people to get the wrong impression about what im trying to do hear. im more looking for be cost effective, not a cheap ass. I don't plan on buying a 400 dollar rifle if it wont accomplish my goals, but if there is one that can, why not purchase it?

 

[tript2009]

Re: new to the forums, and already asking questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

So you are brand new to precision rifle, a reserve deputy, and you are already getting dropped on your department's SRT?
</div></div>

i am trying to acquire something to use, and will be more than trained before i am actually carrying it with me.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

We see a lot of internet commando's crash and burn here. Don't be that guy. If you are serious and come humble, then you will get a TON of good information. If you come on here like a Mall Ninja, you are going to get stomped.
</div></div>

i am serious, and i am coming humble, all i am simply doing is bouncing ideas off of you guys, as you have a lot more experience than i do, asking a ton of questions, and have thanked almost every person for their help. Im not trying to come in here and be an idiot. i came here to learn, get help, and have an amazing reference from what i have already found.

 

[tript2009]

Re: new to the forums, and already asking questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fdkay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will go on good faith that you are being straightforward.
I will tell you this:
I completed a basic sniper/observer course with a savage 10PC. The rifle is absolutely capable. I was also smart enough to take a PAST recoil shield with me and use it for the entire course.

Firing 4 or 5 rounds out of a fairly light rifle from the prone position is not bad. Firing 60 or 80 in one day is another story. This goes for the LTR also.

I use my own rifle for work. It is not uncommon.

</div></div>

thanks for going on good faith with this one, and thanks for also stating that people also use their own rifles for work. Due to many budgets being cut across the state in smaller cities and communities, keeping special units open like this often entails personal investment and our office is one of the many across this state that requires personal investment, especially for reserve deputies.

thank you for the advice. im definitely seeing that a few hundred extra bucks will go a long long way on a rifle. I am going to have to sit down and weigh out my options here, and see what will suits my needs best.

 

[z71rat]

Re: new to the forums, and already asking questions

Savage 10PC, good glass, good ammo... nothing else needed.

DK

 

[tript2009]

Re: new to the forums, and already asking questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Topstrap</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The one and only Rem 770 I've handled was one of the worst feeling actions I've ever cycled. If you have to stay in that budget and you're planning on someday down the road get something better suited to LR then possibly the Axis would work for you and be my choice over the 770. Have you considered that in a 223? Then you'd be able to still easily shoot well beyond the distances you're mentioning and also be able to use the same rounds as the forces AR guns. Recoil would be a lot less than an unbraked/lightweight 308 and accuracy usually increases for most shooters with smaller calibers until they gain a lot of experience behind the bigger calibers.

</div></div>

Wow i never really thought about using it in 223, and was generally pretty set on a larger caliber. My one concern is with how light the rounds actually are, as we use 62 gr, is that they would be pretty susceptible to wind around 300 yards, no?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Topstrap</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Seems odd that the force would want you to purchase your own weapon, what if you left the force then they'd be without a gun and someone trained to use it? Also I'd not think price would be top concern when you're going to be using this tool to end a dangerous situation. You don't need top of the line equipment but I'd see what is being used at LR matches because those guys use what works to hit small targets consistently at the distances you mentioned.

</div></div>

as i brought up in a post above, its simply due to budget restrictions primarily. this also allows each person to have a gun they are personally comfortable with, without being restricted by what the department/office has.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Topstrap</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
With human lives depending on your skills and your guns reliability I'd still consider moving up a bit more towards the better versions of the Savages. It might only take a couple raffles/car washes/fundraisers to get the extra $500.00 to step up to a model that is ready to go and is proven. If we miss a target, big deal we get a ZERO for that shot and try again. If you miss a target an innocent person may pay the price.
</div></div>

and after all the information you guys have presented me here, and everything i have researched on this site, im definitely going to spend the money on something in a higher price range above what i was looking at originally. The group consensus is clearly to stay away from the lower cost rifles, and this definitely seems to be a "you get what you pay for" type of thing, much like other types of firearms.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: new to the forums, and already asking questions

The Remington 770 and Savage Axis are lead competitors in the same race, lowest cost deer hunters' rifle.

For precision work, you're swimming in the wrong end of the pool.

There's a current, too; and you're swimming against that, too. Listen to these folks.

For lives and responsibility, a certain minimum precision standard is needed. While good guns for their intended market, neither the Axis nor the Rem 770 are up to that standard.

Now I have a question. Why isn't this question being posted on the LE forum?

Greg