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Re-Sizing on Dillon 650 and inconsistent results

R

rivemor

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Sep 14, 2011
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So I have upgraded to my next reloading press – Dillon 650 by all means an awesome/ impressive device. I did run into an issue on Sunday and I looked all over the interwebs and I could not find the answer until I spoke with Dillon this morning.

Per the normal and the Dillon 1200B manual when I went to install the full length re-sizing die that comes with the 1200B, I screwed the die down until it reached the shell plate and backed it off ½ a turn. I ran some cases through the press and I was all over the board when it came to testing the re-sized cases in my JP Enterprises case gage, some were over the maximum some were so far under the minimum. It was frustrating the hell out of me. I screwed the die up and down for an hour but I could not get it right and consistent.

I called Dillon this morning their tech said that with the 650 they recommend screwing the die down until it touches the case plate then start running cases through working the die up to achive the right results. I mentioned their 1200B manual and he apologized saying it was out of date. According to the tech it has to do with the play in the 650 tool head.

So probably 100 cases later, I will give it another go. Figured I would post it, see what you guys have to say and for anyone in the future messing around a 1200B full length re-sizing die, a Dillon 650 and inconsistent results in your case gage.
 
Re: Re-Sizing on Dillon 650 and inconsistent results

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rives</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So I have upgraded to my next reloading press – Dillon 650 by all means an awesome/ impressive device. I did run into an issue on Sunday and I looked all over the interwebs and I could not find the answer until I spoke with Dillon this morning.

Per the normal and the Dillon 1200B manual when I went to install the full length re-sizing die that comes with the 1200B, I screwed the die down until it reached the shell plate and backed it off ½ a turn. I ran some cases through the press and I was all over the board when it came to testing the re-sized cases in my JP Enterprises case gage, some were over the maximum some were so far under the minimum. It was frustrating the hell out of me. I screwed the die up and down for an hour but I could not get it right and consistent.

I called Dillon this morning their tech said that with the 650 they recommend screwing the die down until it touches the case plate then start running cases through working the die up to achive the right results. I mentioned their 1200B manual and he apologized saying it was out of date. According to the tech it has to do with the play in the 650 tool head.

So probably 100 cases later, I will give it another go. Figured I would post it, see what you guys have to say and for anyone in the future messing around a 1200B full length re-sizing die, a Dillon 650 and inconsistent results in your case gage.
</div></div>


STOP! Do not waste any more time trying to find the perfect setting for your dies with a stock Dillon 650! You will NEVER find the adjustment that solves the problems of the slop in the toolheads! You need one of the Unique / Whidden CNC'd floating die toolhead with clamp kit from Unique! I bought this setup for my Dillon 550 along with a Turbo bearing and the difference in repeatable headspace and bullet seating is amazing! I can get within 0.0005" of my target headspace number all day long. See the photo below.

HTH!

dillion550btoolhead.jpg
 
Re: Re-Sizing on Dillon 650 and inconsistent results

Here is your fix. Uniquetek Clamped Dillon Toolhead. Removes all the slop out of your tool head for consistent results. Google "search snipers hide dillon 650 tool head movement" That will bring up a snipers hide post explaining the whole deal. Go to Uniquetek.com to order. It a cheap fix.
 
Re: Re-Sizing on Dillon 650 and inconsistent results

I am goona need to try one of those toolhead also.
 
Re: Re-Sizing on Dillon 650 and inconsistent results

Or just drill/tap the toolhead.
 
Re: Re-Sizing on Dillon 650 and inconsistent results

I use a Dillon XL650 and RT1200B set-up for .223 and actually had the same issue. I would suggest that you ignore the Dillon instructions as stated by Dillon.
Set-up a full length sizing decapper die at station one, touching the shell plate then back it off as needed to gauge properly. Mine is actually set to slightly overcam and sizes and sets the shoulder to minimum specs with a Dillon case gauge using mixed brass. At station four I have the RT1200 die set to trim just below minimum at 1.1745
Remember that the RT1200 sizing die is essentially a small base sizer so all you are doing at this point is squeezing the body not bumping the nech any further. If you don't set up or adjust with the shellplate loaded and lever handle down (I prefer a slightly over camming effect) the internal slop of the tool head isn't accounted for.
This method of setting up works well for me or course YMMV.
http://youtu.be/Jpl9R7SmjHk
 
Re: Re-Sizing on Dillon 650 and inconsistent results

++1 on this tool head. You will drive yourself crazy messing with the stock Dillon. My results are the same! Great product.
 
Re: Re-Sizing on Dillon 650 and inconsistent results

Has anyone actually used a Unique / Whidden CNC'd floating die toolhead with clamp kit with a RT1200 sizing/trimmer die? I have Uniquetek clamp kits on my toolheads and think they are great but I'm not getting the using a floating tool head for the RT1200B trimmer.
Seems to me the motor vibration would constantly make the die float causing inconsistent cuts.
Now for traditional sizing and actual bullet seating I can see the difference.
 
Re: Re-Sizing on Dillon 650 and inconsistent results

The thing I can find to showing this are the following YouTube videos.

1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5tWJsj6CbU&feature=relmfu

2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iD8gQH4woUM&feature=relmfu

But he does not have the 1200B set up on the floating die head.

I do have a question for Boxerglocker, I watched your youtube video and I have the Unique spent primer tube as well, where did you get that circular guide that you have with the spent primer tube?

Thanks
 
Re: Re-Sizing on Dillon 650 and inconsistent results

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rives</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I do have a question for Boxerglocker, I watched your youtube video and I have the Unique spent primer tube as well, where did you get that circular guide that you have with the spent primer tube?

Thanks </div></div>

My set-up is all home made by a forum friend he traced out the OEM bracket for the hole pattern and cut it out of a piece of aluminum sheet metal the funnel itself is a 44 magnum case drilled out at the base. The tube bracket is made with a piece of holed flat stock, coat hanger wire and a nut/bolt. If you send me your email or phone number I can take a close-up picture and email or text it to you later today.
 
Re: Re-Sizing on Dillon 650 and inconsistent results

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ubergeek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You can get the Whidden tool heads cheaper from the source.

http://www.whiddengunworks.net/toolhead.html </div></div>

It's not the tool heads that solve the variable headspace problems it is the UniqueTek clamping system and an improved bearing. The floating feature of the Whidden toolheads helps concentricty.
 
Re: Re-Sizing on Dillon 650 and inconsistent results

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 78steeler</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here is your fix. Uniquetek Clamped Dillon Toolhead. Removes all the slop out of your tool head for consistent results. Google "search snipers hide dillon 650 tool head movement" That will bring up a snipers hide post explaining the whole deal. Go to Uniquetek.com to order. It a cheap fix. </div></div>

Not just the Unique-Tek clamp kit but when using the 650 for sizing try this. I run a universal de-priming die in station one that's run down to the shell plate plus just a little more. Then I install a powder die, which is just essentially a tube when the funnel isn't installed, on each side of the RT 1200. I run these down to touching plus just a little more too.

With the Unique-Tek clamp kit installed, the powder dies 'straddling' the RT1200, and the depriming die in Station 1, the shell plate is kept tight and doesn't vary in height any more than a shell holder in a single stage press would.

If you want the results to be uniform then it's a matter of making the conditions uniform. Removing tolerance from the press by loading the shell plate the same on both sides of the ram goes a long way toward uniformity of the sized/trimmed cases.

When loading, use a dead-length seating die and at least a powder die in station one to "hold the plate down tight" when the ram is up.

You'd be amazed at how uniform this will make your ammmo. Only real limitation with this setup is the accuracy of the powder measure.
 
Re: Re-Sizing on Dillon 650 and inconsistent results

Real small. #3 or so. The Drill Bit for the thread inserts, prior to tapping is 9/64"

The installation doesn't involve changing the hole size in the press so any machine screw that you can get proper thread clearance with, and find a thread insert for will work.

This kit has it all together, drill, tap, inserts for several heads, and an insertion tool.

For me, it beat running around trying to find the right stuff.
 
Re: Re-Sizing on Dillon 650 and inconsistent results

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deadshot2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Real small. #3 or so. The Drill Bit for the thread inserts, prior to tapping is 9/64"

The installation doesn't involve changing the hole size in the press so any machine screw that you can get proper thread clearance with, and find a thread insert for will work.

This kit has it all together, drill, tap, inserts for several heads, and an insertion tool.

For me, it beat running around trying to find the right stuff. </div></div>

Exactly why I bought the Whidden TH with clamp kit pre-installed. My time to find, buy and install the right parts is worth more than the cost of having it installed 100% correctly. It works amazingly well to boot.

 
Re: Re-Sizing on Dillon 650 and inconsistent results

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YAOG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Exactly why I bought the Whidden TH with clamp kit pre-installed. My time is worth more than the cost of having it installed 100% correctly. It works amazingly well to boot.

</div></div>

Installation isn't hard at all and it's damn near impossible to do it wrong. You're merely drilling out the existing hole in the tool head and then tapping it to the larger thread size of the OD on the insert. A cordless drill, tap handle, and about 15 minutes per tool head is all that's involved.
 
Re: Re-Sizing on Dillon 650 and inconsistent results

This is a little off topic, but I have a question for you guys loading progressively including full length sizing. How do you lube your cases, and have you had any problems running lubed brass through the other stations 550 or 650? Also, how do you trim your brass?

Hopefully this question makes sense. I load on both a 550 and 650 but fully process my brass before running it through the progressive press. In other words I size and trim the brass, then load the rounds on the Dillon.

Thanks!
 
Re: Re-Sizing on Dillon 650 and inconsistent results

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deadshot2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YAOG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Exactly why I bought the Whidden TH with clamp kit pre-installed. My time is worth more than the cost of having it installed 100% correctly. It works amazingly well to boot.

</div></div>

Installation isn't hard at all and it's damn near impossible to do it wrong. You're merely drilling out the existing hole in the tool head and then tapping it to the larger thread size of the OD on the insert. A cordless drill, tap handle, and about 15 minutes per tool head is all that's involved. </div></div>

Nobody said it was hard to install the clamp kit. What I said was that it was not worth my time to drive around to find the right parts and then install them. Even if I had the right parts (you do know that the threaded pins are hardened steel, coated and very undersized right? Do you know why? I do.) and installation tools (do you know what size coil inserts the threaded pins need? Neither do I.) in front of me my time is worth a lot more than $56 an hour. For for me it is a LOT cheaper at $14 a pop to have UniqueTek have to deal with it so I can get on with the more serious business of drinking beer. But to each his own.

Cheers
 
Re: Re-Sizing on Dillon 650 and inconsistent results

Tool head is half of total variance.

I have over a hundred hours in tightening shell plate closer to base.

The most popular cure is thrust washer. Problem is washer raises ejector wire so now you've traded one problem for another.

My solution reduces total play by 2/3rds and keeps ejector wire flat.

650 was never meant to be an upgrade over 550, nor will it ever be in concentric terms.

Press is designed to run a lot of practice ammunition for action pistol competitors.
 
Re: Re-Sizing on Dillon 650 and inconsistent results

@ 1911wrench

Did I miss something on your post? I see you referring to a solution you have devised, but can not find any reference to what it is. Would love to see it.
 
Re: Re-Sizing on Dillon 650 and inconsistent results

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DT1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is a little off topic, but I have a question for you guys loading progressively including full length sizing. How do you lube your cases, and have you had any problems running lubed brass through the other stations 550 or 650? Also, how do you trim your brass?

Hopefully this question makes sense. I load on both a 550 and 650 but fully process my brass before running it through the progressive press. In other words I size and trim the brass, then load the rounds on the Dillon.



I would really like to get peoples input on this also
Thanks! </div></div>
 
Re: Re-Sizing on Dillon 650 and inconsistent results

This is all that is need and can be bought at most hardware stores.
Untitled-2.jpg


Mylar washer goes under shell plate and copper on top. This what you have when done.

DSC03001.jpg


Extreme variance when done was no more than .07. Industry allowance is .10.

Average variance is within .03

Much better than sitting ejector wire on top of thrust bearing. This keeps wire down where it belongs.

dc
 
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