Choose the .308 brass pill... Red or Blue

[MrOneEyedBoh]

Okay Ive got my bolt reloading setup good to go except for brass. Im stuck between Winchester or Lapua. The lapua I can get is .65 per and Winchester is .38 per. Is Lapua worth it? If I go Winchester I save 41%, and it seems to last damn near as long...

 

[.308Shadow]

Re: Choose the .308 brass pill... Red or Blue

Winchester isn't nearly as good as Lapua, my favorites are Hornady and Federal though.

 

[MrOneEyedBoh]

Re: Choose the .308 brass pill... Red or Blue

Feds are notorious for being soft. Thats almost across the board.

 

[RyeDaddy]

Re: Choose the .308 brass pill... Red or Blue

For a bolt gun I've always used Lapua. Just bought my first batch of Winchester now that I'm shooting a semi auto. Lapua yielded great results and was super tough in my bolt action 308 and my POF P-308, but the rims were so beat up after 6 firings in my semi that they were difficult to fit in the shellholder. So if I'm only gonna get 6 loadings I may as well buy the cheaper Winchester. In my Rem 700 5R my Lapua brass went 13 loadings with annealing regularly before I just tossed them. They still worked fine though.

So in short I voted Lapua because it's awesome, but only worth the price in a bolt action for me.

 

[MrOneEyedBoh]

Re: Choose the .308 brass pill... Red or Blue

Damn only 13 reloadings? Ive read people getting crazy amounts.. If thats the case Shouldnt I go just Winchester? Winchester can get 13 no problem ( again from what Ive read ) and I dont have access to an annealer, so thats not an option to make the brass last longer...

 

[RyeDaddy]

Re: Choose the .308 brass pill... Red or Blue

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MrOneEyedBoh</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Damn only 13 reloadings? Ive read people getting crazy amounts.. If thats the case Shouldnt I go just Winchester? Winchester can get 13 no problem ( again from what Ive read ) and I dont have access to an annealer, so thats not an option to make the brass last longer...</div></div>

I'm sure they would have gone many more. They looked and worked great still, I just arbitrarily decided to toss them and buy new as I received a gift card for Cabela's and couldn't figure out anything else to spend it on, and I had recently purchased my POF and wanted to start with new brass for the rifle.

 

[roggom]

Re: Choose the .308 brass pill... Red or Blue

Truly the best judgment will be your own. Just buy the Laupa and one bag of Winny. The Lapua comes in a box o hundered and the Winny in a bag of 50. Run 50 of each, if you still dont think the Lapua is any better, then sell the remaining 50, you will have no problem moving Lapua brass on this site.

When you hold each case in your hands it will be very obvious why Lapua is better. Not that winny is crap, but Lapua looks, wieghs, measures more consistent.



Case life: that will depends on how hot you load them. A lot of folks load for 1000Y, but never shoot 1000Y. Find a node that works for you, if you are shooting 1000Y comps, then expect to change your brass out sooner. If you and the guys go out every so often and ring steel, no meed to push 1000Y velocities.


As for an annealer, all you need is a cakepan of water, and a propane torch, or a drill/socket.

Lastly dont get too hung up on reloading costs. If you want to save money, then get your C&R license. You will then get dealer pricing at Grafs. $35 for your license will save you thousands over the next 3 years.

 

[MrOneEyedBoh]

Re: Choose the .308 brass pill... Red or Blue

I have my C&R but grafs isnt THAT much cheaper. Sure here and there is savings saved, but I dont think I shoot enough to warrant tons of savings.

 

[BCP]

Re: Choose the .308 brass pill... Red or Blue

Most 308 comp shooters are using lapua but some use win as well. I think a champ palma shooter a few years ago was diehard for win. So both are capable of making great ammunition.

I use win cases 5-6 times and then chuck them as I don't care to anneal stuff.

 

[Dylan in AZ]

Re: Choose the .308 brass pill... Red or Blue

It depends... to me, just looking at virgin Lapua brass it is very obvious why it is widely considered much better than virgin Winchester. But don't be fooled, Win brass can be made to be VERY good brass. You just have to be willing to put all the time and effort into it. I have a ton of spare time unfortunately, so I don't mind spending half the money on Win brass and doing all the necessary work to make it good enough for me. I also plan to use this stuff in some competitions down the road and if I end up losing some pieces of brass on the range then so be it. If I was shooting F-Class or another type of square range competition (and I do plan to), then I wouldn't hesitate to use Lapua because when it comes down to it, it IS better. Another thing to think about... are you a good enough shooter to take advantage of the better brass? I've decided I'm not there yet so I'm not going to spend more money on something I can't appreciate the advantages of. I would rather put the money I save by buying Win brass towards more bullets for more trigger time. But that's a choice the individual shooter has to make. It isn't worth it to me, but it may be for you. You just have to look at it from several different point of views and decide what is the best choice for YOU.

FWIW, I didn't cast a vote. I believe both have their merits.

This is just my .02 of course, so take it for what it's worth. I hope this helps you decide!


-Dylan

 

[MrOneEyedBoh]

Re: Choose the .308 brass pill... Red or Blue

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Terror!</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Another thing to think about... are you a good enough shooter to take advantage of the better brass? </div></div>

This is it... WW it is.

 

[nauta]

Re: Choose the .308 brass pill... Red or Blue

The next time you want to toss good Lapua brass let me know and I'll give you the money to ship them my way.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RyeDaddy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm sure they would have gone many more. They looked and worked great still, I just arbitrarily decided to toss them and buy new as I received a gift card for Cabela's and couldn't figure out anything else to spend it on, and I had recently purchased my POF and wanted to start with new brass for the rifle. </div></div>

 

[nauta]

Re: Choose the .308 brass pill... Red or Blue

Search the forums. There is someone that will tumble your cases in STM and anneal them for 10 cents a piece IIRC.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MrOneEyedBoh</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Damn only 13 reloadings? Ive read people getting crazy amounts.. If thats the case Shouldnt I go just Winchester? Winchester can get 13 no problem ( again from what Ive read ) and I dont have access to an annealer, so thats not an option to make the brass last longer... </div></div>

 

[MitchAlsup]

Re: Choose the .308 brass pill... Red or Blue

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MrOneEyedBoh</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Damn only 13 reloadings? Ive read people getting crazy amounts.. If thats the case Shouldnt I go just Winchester? Winchester can get 13 no problem ( again from what Ive read ) and I dont have access to an annealer, so thats not an option to make the brass last longer... </div></div>

I might note: I seem to be one of those that gets a lot of reloadings on my brass. My current set has 32 reload cycles on it (WIN), but has gone through the body die only 5 times. These cases have never been annealed, and are neck sized with a 338 and 332 bushing. The load is a stiff 47.8 gr Varget pushing 155 Scenars at 2.948 OAL.

In the beginning, these cases were fully match preped, trimmed, chamfered, deburred (with a file), primer pockert uniformed, flash hole deburred, lubed and sized in the body die, neck expanded with a craftsman punch before being run through the neck sizer with 332 bushing.

I have lost two cases to body cracks, and 2 cases from ICHS caught before bad things happen, but 46 of the 50 are still loaded up and ready to go.

To be fair, I think these cases are very close to the end of their life. And I have to state that I am surprised that this set has laster this long (wihtout annealing). They still shoot (near) great.

I have the Redding competition die set, and the neck sizer is set to size 90%-95% of the neck leaving just a tiny doughnut at the base of the neck. The sliding sleaves in the dies are cleaneed and relubricated (3in1 oil) each reloading session. The cases are not lubed when NO sized with TiN bushings. And I use the nerves in my lever arm to feel the necks being sized, the average case spends 1 second going up, just over 1 second in the bushing, and 2/3rds a second comng back down.

 

[MrOneEyedBoh]

Re: Choose the .308 brass pill... Red or Blue

Good to hear. Im not a bench shooter, and I bet even basic handloads will still prove to be awesome to/for me compared to factory ammo.

 

[tolnep]

Re: Choose the .308 brass pill... Red or Blue

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MrOneEyedBoh</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good to hear. Im not a bench shooter, and I bet even basic hand loads will still prove to be awesome to/for me compared to factory ammo. </div></div>

started reloading the last month. i have several hundred fgmm cases.

im starting to experiment with different powders and bullets.

this weekend i got 175 smk on 43.5 gr varget down to .355 MOA at 300 yards (group of 5). way better than anything i have ever gotten with FGMM.

once fired FGMM cases, everything done to these except trimmed. i have the redding competition die set too.

same day, same range i shot groups with FGMM off the shelf and it wasnt near as good. my main purpose in reloading is to get such results. having said that i also want to get as much useful life out of my cases as possible. which seems to indicate i will need to anneal at some point which i sort of dread for two reasons. one, the purchase of a machine and two, not getting the temps right, especially if i dont buy a machine.

as to the two brass suppliers. i have some winchester brass that came as southwest ammo and i've purchased 200 cases of lapua and started to work with those.

rifle is rem 700 308 5r 24 inch with a timney trigger and a march 5-40x 56 scope.

to let the rifle cool between groups i shoot a anchutz 64mpr 22lr at an eight each gong at the same distance and manage to get close about 50 percent of the time and hit it the rest. letting the rifle cool (or letting it get too hot) seems to have a definite effect on groups. and temps here in GA have been in the high 90s a lot this summer.

 

[uscbigdawg]

Re: Choose the .308 brass pill... Red or Blue

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MrOneEyedBoh</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Terror!</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Another thing to think about... are you a good enough shooter to take advantage of the better brass? </div></div>

This is it... WW it is.</div></div>

Amen. And, if I recall Black Hills brass = Winchester.

Rich

 

[leadbullet]

Re: Choose the .308 brass pill... Red or Blue

for bolt actions, lapua or preped win brass, lapua is a waste of money in gas guns though.

 

[Gene Poole]

Re: Choose the .308 brass pill... Red or Blue

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nauta</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Search the forums. There is someone that will tumble your cases in STM and anneal them for 10 cents a piece IIRC.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MrOneEyedBoh</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Damn only 13 reloadings? Ive read people getting crazy amounts.. If thats the case Shouldnt I go just Winchester? Winchester can get 13 no problem ( again from what Ive read ) and I dont have access to an annealer, so thats not an option to make the brass last longer... </div></div> </div></div>

That would be KillShot44:

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2657545

Just got a batch back from him. 1 day turnover on his end. 2 days each way priority flat-rate box.

Before/After: