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LMT MWS Rifle Gas vs SR-25 EMC/ECC Rifle Gas

buckjay

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Minuteman
Aug 15, 2011
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Hawaii
Does anyone know if the LMT MWS 18" & 20" SS barrels have the same length rifle gas system as the SR-25 16" EMC/ECC barrels?

I'm told the SR-25 16" EMC/ECC has a AR-15 length rifle gas system and if its the same length as the MWS runs, I was thinking about having a 18" MWS barrel cut down to 16" for a slightly softer shooting setup.

Appreciate any insight into the matter!
 
Re: LMT MWS Rifle Gas vs SR-25 EMC/ECC Rifle Gas

Doesn't LMT just sell a 16 inch SS barrel?
 
Re: LMT MWS Rifle Gas vs SR-25 EMC/ECC Rifle Gas

I sold my 16" CL Gen 1 LMT to get a SR-25 EC

401907881.jpg


Shot groups are same(slightly less than 1 MOA), My EC shoots a little softer and has a better trigger IMO.

It runs all ammo I have fired through it(fed, Rem, Winchester and a old box of wolf)with zero issues

My LMT was overgassed but it shot great as well.

I love my KAC gun, but when I get the cash im getting another LMT as they are both great guns.

If you have the spare cash get the SR-25 EC, if your on a budget get the LMT.

You will not be disappointed with either gun.

Free

 
Re: LMT MWS Rifle Gas vs SR-25 EMC/ECC Rifle Gas

buckjay,

Though not quite an answer to your specific question, I own both a 16" (Carbine length) and an 18" (Rifle length) OBR 7.62, and I don't feel any significant difference in recoil. In fact, for all the hubub you hear about carbine vs midlength/rifle systems in M4/AR 15's, I haven't come across this discussion much when talking about their bigger brothers (AR-308). Of course, maybe I'm not searching hard enough.
 
Re: LMT MWS Rifle Gas vs SR-25 EMC/ECC Rifle Gas

Freefalle7,

That's a gorgeous boom stick you have there. I'm especially encouraged to hear that she eats whatever you feed her. I'm currently torn between picking up an ECC or a Spiral REPR. I've found myself stricken with the condition known as "Paralysis by Analysis".... =)
 
Re: LMT MWS Rifle Gas vs SR-25 EMC/ECC Rifle Gas

Get the ECC, I have the EMC and soon to be an ECC.....to me it is far better than the REPRs that I have shot
 
Re: LMT MWS Rifle Gas vs SR-25 EMC/ECC Rifle Gas

To buckjay:
I haven't handled either rifle, but the gas system for the 20"/18" LMT barrels seems to be basically same length as the 16" KAC EMC barrel. Both sit just in front of a 12" rail. There might be a slight difference in the gas tube length, bt probably a 0.5" or less.

Essentially what you are asking is if you chop 2" off of an 18" LMT barrel or 4" off of a 20" barrel will they still function like the KAC EMC. The thing to keep in mind is that there is more involved than just the length of the gas system and the overall lenght of the barrel.

You want enough gas to get to the action for the gun to function properly. Not undergassed (i.e. not short stroking, or failing to go back into battery), or overgassed (excessive recoil, excessive bolt wear, harsh or inconsisten extraction). The amount of gas getting to the action is a function of:
1. gas tube length
2. length of barrel between gas port and muzzle
3. gas port diameter
4. gas block/gas block seat diameter

Even thought the LMT gas system length will essentially be the same as the KAC EMC, you will be shortening the barrel past the gas port and reducing the amount of gas getting to the action (may result in the gun being undergassed). Also the LMT gas block is a larger diameter than the KAC. A larger diamter at the gas port typically requires a slightly larger diamter gas port in order to get the same amount of gas to the action as the smaller diameter gas block.

To answer your question of will it work? It is hard to say. Since the previous poster says the LMT is a bit overgassed the it may be just fine after the chop. The LMT gas port diamter may need to be opened up a bit to ensure the action gets enough gas.

Best advice is to ask around in the gunsmithg section of this forum and others (AR15.com, M4C.net) and see if anyone has done this already. You can check with ADCO if they have done this modification yet, and how it came out. You could also try and track down the specs on the gas port diamters for both barrels to see how they compare.

Good news is that the longer gas system on the 16" barrel should help with recoil and inherent accuracy, or at least in theory they should. Probably the reason KAC went with that setup on the 16" in the first place.
 
Re: LMT MWS Rifle Gas vs SR-25 EMC/ECC Rifle Gas

falsecrack, I thought Larue uses the same system for all the 308's no matter the barrel length? If true, any difference you feel is from the weight difference.
 
Re: LMT MWS Rifle Gas vs SR-25 EMC/ECC Rifle Gas

The OBR has 2 gas system lengths. the 16 inch uses a middy configuration, and the 18/20 run rifle lengths.

I will agree with Free, the KAC EC/EMC/ECC carbines are quite soft shooters. And so far, mine has digested everything I've run thru it.

If you're on the fence, I did a writeup on my SR25EC. If you doig back through the archives, you'll find it.
 
Re: LMT MWS Rifle Gas vs SR-25 EMC/ECC Rifle Gas

Thanks
I would get the KAC SR-25 over the REPR IMO

Free
 
Re: LMT MWS Rifle Gas vs SR-25 EMC/ECC Rifle Gas

Free,

Hearing that your EC can actually eat Wolf without choking has really piqued my interest in KAC (again). Through the years, the ONE thing that has always caused trepidation in buying an SR25 (beside the huge pricetag)has been the reports of the platform being finnicky with certain ammo. And though I don't feed my 7.62 guns crappy ammo, I wouldn't buy one that couldn't on principle alone. I mean if I'm going to drop 5K on a rifle, it better be able to damn well eat whatever it's fed (like my OBR and the Scar17).
 
Re: LMT MWS Rifle Gas vs SR-25 EMC/ECC Rifle Gas

Personally I would get the LMT because I am more convinced of its durability in the field.
 
Re: LMT MWS Rifle Gas vs SR-25 EMC/ECC Rifle Gas

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 500grains</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Personally I would get the LMT because I am more convinced of its durability in the field. </div></div>

care to elaborate?
 
Re: LMT MWS Rifle Gas vs SR-25 EMC/ECC Rifle Gas

Well I never had any issues with it or my LMT with cheap ammo.

I even fired some old machine gun ammo through it and it was still holding 1-1.5 MOA at 100m

If truth be known they are both knight guns<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Falsecrack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Free,

Hearing that your EC can actually eat Wolf without choking has really piqued my interest in KAC (again). Through the years, the ONE thing that has always caused trepidation in buying an SR25 (beside the huge pricetag)has been the reports of the platform being finnicky with certain ammo. And though I don't feed my 7.62 guns crappy ammo, I wouldn't buy one that couldn't on principle alone. I mean if I'm going to drop 5K on a rifle, it better be able to damn well eat whatever it's fed (like my OBR and the Scar17). </div></div>
 
Re: LMT MWS Rifle Gas vs SR-25 EMC/ECC Rifle Gas

Google MWS in Helman or Royal Marines and the MWS.

The Brits have been using it as a DMR/Battle rifle in Afghanistan for some time

Free

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deadly0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 500grains</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Personally I would get the LMT because I am more convinced of its durability in the field. </div></div>

care to elaborate? </div></div>
 
Re: LMT MWS Rifle Gas vs SR-25 EMC/ECC Rifle Gas

Yeah, i'd always heard that the MWS was GTG with all kinds of ammo, but I've known 2 people with EMC's that told me that they wouldn't cycle properly with some of the cheaper types (Malay surplus, Tula, etc) and would double feed or experience bolt override. One of these friends tried running a lighter, carbine buffer to no avail. Then again, like everything else, it seems no 2 run exactly the same anyway. Of course, they both still considers their Knight's rifles as their pride and joy.
 
Re: LMT MWS Rifle Gas vs SR-25 EMC/ECC Rifle Gas

KAC opened up the gas port on the barrel. When they designed the EMC it was only for .mil ammo.
When the guns didn't like crappy ammo but people still used it, they opened the gas up on the later EMC and ECC's so it would cycle.
 
Re: LMT MWS Rifle Gas vs SR-25 EMC/ECC Rifle Gas

koz,
I knew they opened the gas ports in the ECC but wasn't aware that they had done the same to the "later" EMC's. That would actually explain a lot. In any event, it's moot (to me) as I don't like cleaning my rifles so I don't use dirty ammo. I was just commenting on how Free was the first person I'd ever heard of who had used Wolf succesfully through his SR 25. Tis a good thing, ultimately (imo).
 
Re: LMT MWS Rifle Gas vs SR-25 EMC/ECC Rifle Gas

It was only 20 rds, so I'm not making any promises
grin.gif


It was the polymer coated stuff a buddy gave me for my LMT.

I fired 80 rds through my LMT with no issues, other than being dirty.

Free

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Falsecrack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">koz,
I knew they opened the gas ports in the ECC but wasn't aware that they had done the same to the "later" EMC's. That would actually explain a lot. In any event, it's moot (to me) as I don't like cleaning my rifles so I don't use dirty ammo. I was just commenting on how Free was the first person I'd ever heard of who had used Wolf succesfully through his SR 25. Tis a good thing, ultimately (imo).
</div></div>
 
Re: LMT MWS Rifle Gas vs SR-25 EMC/ECC Rifle Gas

My EMC wouldn't cycle FGMM or Southwest standard, which turned me off KAC in general along with an out of spec mount, however according to what I see other people posting I am the exception and not the rule.
 
Re: LMT MWS Rifle Gas vs SR-25 EMC/ECC Rifle Gas

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Freefalle7</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It was only 20 rds, so I'm not making any promises
grin.gif




<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Falsecrack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">koz,
I knew they opened the gas ports in the ECC but wasn't aware that they had done the same to the "later" EMC's. That would actually explain a lot. In any event, it's moot (to me) as I don't like cleaning my rifles so I don't use dirty ammo. I was just commenting on how Free was the first person I'd ever heard of who had used Wolf succesfully through his SR 25. Tis a good thing, ultimately (imo).
</div></div> </div></div>
 
Re: LMT MWS Rifle Gas vs SR-25 EMC/ECC Rifle Gas

Dang, looks like I don't know quite how to use the "quote" button.

Free,
I was gong to say that "20 rounds" is a good start.

SCARbliss,
If I had a similar experience to yours, you better believe I'd be turned off for life too. Not cycling with FGMM is ridiculous. I'm curious, did you ever take this up with KAC? And if so, how did they respond.
 
Re: LMT MWS Rifle Gas vs SR-25 EMC/ECC Rifle Gas

I am trying to sell my SR25 to get the LMT. For some reason, I find myself liking the LMT more
 
Re: LMT MWS Rifle Gas vs SR-25 EMC/ECC Rifle Gas

Ragincajun1919,

You should be able to get an MWS (as i've seen a bunch go for that $2100-$2300 price range) a nice piece of glass, and a bunch of other goodies when you sell off your SR25. Hope you get what you're wanting.
 
Re: LMT MWS Rifle Gas vs SR-25 EMC/ECC Rifle Gas

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Freefalle7</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Google MWS in Helman or Royal Marines and the MWS.

The Brits have been using it as a DMR/Battle rifle in Afghanistan for some time

Free

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deadly0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 500grains</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Personally I would get the LMT because I am more convinced of its durability in the field. </div></div>

care to elaborate? </div></div> </div></div>

I understand they are being used in the field.....but correct me if I am wrong, Knights Armament has had guns in the field since 1993......
confused.gif
 
Re: LMT MWS Rifle Gas vs SR-25 EMC/ECC Rifle Gas

Yea I would be furious over that

That's mostly what I shoot through my SR-25 EC

Free


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SCARbliss</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My EMC wouldn't cycle FGMM or Southwest standard, which turned me off KAC in general along with an out of spec mount, however according to what I see other people posting I am the exception and not the rule. </div></div>
 
Re: LMT MWS Rifle Gas vs SR-25 EMC/ECC Rifle Gas

So far only one ammo has given me trouble in my EMC. FGMM, Privy, FN Surplus, varios other suprlus ammo have all been fine. Only San Bernadino surplus from the early 80's has given me any trouble but it is decidedly weak.
 
Re: LMT MWS Rifle Gas vs SR-25 EMC/ECC Rifle Gas

I don't feed my precision guns anything but match ammo. Except when I needed to prove my point about how much better the match stuff was compared to surplus ammo (1" 5rd group at 300rds vs 7" 5rd group at 300yards)