rounds "sticking"

[gsxcorey]

.338 savage 110ba
300gr sierra's in lapua brass.

Once fired brass that I neck sized (and if I full size). brass fits in the gun perfectly with both neck sized and full size. The minute i put the powder in it and bullet and then put it in the gun sometimes i have to push to get the bolt to close and sometimes i can't even open the bolt unless i hit the bolt back (tap it) to get it to come back. Is this normal?

I can't figure out why the brass fits perfectly up until I put the round in it. I'm seating the bullet down the same depth as the normal sierra rounds i have here so the COAL is the same (way back from the lands).

Any suggestions as i'm 100% stumped here

The normal sierra rounds (store bought) chamber and extract perfect, as does my brass until i load it.

 

[gsxcorey]

Re: rounds "sticking"

Just loaded up another round and had to tap the bolt out. I chambered it 5 times thinking the more it's wedged in there and pulled out it would kind of "form" to the chamber, but nope, the 5th time i have to tap the bolt to get the bullet out just like the first. I'm at a loss here

chambers and extracts perfectly with just the brass and primer. It's something that is happening when i fill with powder and seat the bullet. I'm using the RCBS gold match set. No marks on the bullet when I extract either.

 

[Thor2j]

Re: rounds "sticking"

My guess is that your bullet is too long and is getting stuck in the rifling. You are jamming it in the rifling and that is why you have a tough time with the bolt. Try it with a factory round. What is your oal and your distance to ogive?

 

[shootemandeatem]

Re: rounds "sticking"

I had the exact problem with my rifle. I neck turned the brass and that took care of the problem for me. It seems like these guns have a very tight chamber and full length sizing is needed until the brass is neck turned and inside neck reamed. Hope this helps.

 

[BuzzBoss915]

Re: rounds "sticking"

Two guesses. One, tight necked chamber, is this a factory barrel? #2, your necks are too thick, need turning. BB

 

[gsxcorey]

Re: rounds "sticking"

It's a stock barrel.

Stupid question,but i'm new to reloading. What do you guys mean by "keep turning"? I'm not sure what you mean by the neck is too thick and to "turn it"?

I called the guru at cabela's and he thinks i didn't turn the die down far enough when neck sizing and i need to make it touch and then instead of a 1/4 turn maybe do a hair more then that. I'm going to try it here tonight I think.

Just frusterating "testing" with lapua brass.

I know it's not going into the rifling as I measured and found where i hits the lands and i'm now pressing the bullet down to where the sierra boxed ammo is which is way short of hitting the lands and it's not leaving any marks. So my only thought is that the round chambers w/o a bullet in there and the bullet isn't hitting the lands. It has to be something with the neck of the round when the bullet is in there, or that area of the round that is causing the issues...I'm hoping I just have to neck size them again and maybe twist the die just a hair more. I really am pretty stumped here

 

[former naval person]

Re: rounds "sticking"

Well...when you seat the bullet in the case, it expands the neck. I think the other guys are correct. The neck thickened a bit when fired and resized. With the bullet in the neck and the neck a bit too large, you get an interference fit. When you "turn the neck" you thin it until a loaded round will fit the chamber. You can buy internal reamers that will take off some material from the inside of the neck, or an external trimmer (most find the external to be the most accurate) JMHO

 

[xray9]

Re: rounds "sticking"

Another idea,
Had a similar problem with a 30 BR, come to find out it was a kernel of powder behind the extractor...just like for the S&W revolvers, have to keep that area clean. xray9

 

[gsxcorey]

Re: rounds "sticking"

well on store bought ammo i'm not having this issue so i doubt it has anything to do with the extractor, however that is something I never would have thought of.

I ended up bending neck expander/decapping pin on the die as i didn't use enough lube or muscled it as I was pretty pissed off. Gotta have RCBS get a replacement out then I'm going to take it all to cabela's and their reloading guru wants to go over it all with me. Be nice to have someone very experienced help me with this. Pretty frustrating just purchasing the gun set up, reloading, etc and now this.

I did measure the neck when loaded vs a store bought that chambers fine and they measured the same. I'm just at a loss now as my round mimics the store bought nearly exactly in measurements.

I do see a little mark on SOME of the bullets when I take the round out, but what is weird is the coal is the same as the store bought, bullet diameter, neck width, etc so I don't know why my reloads would stick, but the store bought won't. It has be something something I'm missing and I really help when I go to cabela's their guru can find the issue. I'm to take my dies, brass,bullets, and gun in there. I'll post back in a week when I get the replacement part and get a change to figure out the issue (if he can figure it out). If not I'm hoping a gunsmith could?

 

[former naval person]

Re: rounds "sticking"

If is not the same bullet, then the same COL may not be correct. Seat one a .01 deeper and see if the problem goes away.

 

[aloreman]

Re: rounds "sticking"

I have the 338 hs and have had the same issues. I made a cerosafe chamber casting made and found i have to trim my cases shorter and turn the necks down to .0145 thick. now they come right out. For some reason these chambers are really tight.

 

[gsxcorey]

Re: rounds "sticking"

It was the same bullet. Both 300gr sierra matchkings. I seated one bullet .05 deeper and then seated it .05 again and did that a few times and it didn't go away.

I'll post up when I figure this out. If the guy at cabella's can't figure it out then I'll try turning the necks as you guys said and if that doesn't work I'm going to take it to a gunsmith. Granted it's not a gun issue, but I'm assuming a good gunsmith knows reloading and can tell me what I need to do here or what the cause of this is.

I will post up when I figure this out. I'm hoping I'm doing just missing something (as i'm new at this) and it's a super easy fix.

 

[Fuzzball]

Re: rounds "sticking"

<span style="font-style: italic">"I'm assuming a good gunsmith knows reloading and can tell me what I need to do here or what the cause of this is."</span>

That may be a bad assumption, a lot of competent gunsmiths aren't reloaders. I'm not familiar with the "gold match set" but if Cabela's loading guru thinks you need to turn a conventional neck sizer further down to move a shoulder he may be questionable too.

Knowing where the binding is occuring is the first step in correcting it. Before you do anything else, paint a 'sticking' cartridge with a dark felt tip marker and chamber it, go in and out a couple of times and then remove to look for rub-offs; you should be able to tell where it's binding quite easily.

If the neck shows a full circumference rub the necks are indeed too thick. If the neck shows a hard rub on one side of the mouth and another rub on the opposite side at the shoulder you have massive neck runout. If you have a full circumference rub at the body/shoulder junction you're likely doing an excessive crimp that bulges the shoulder.

 

[gsxcorey]

Re: rounds "sticking"

Also because i can put the brass in w/o the bullet (prior to pressing the bullet) and extract it fine i'm sure the extractor is okay. It's only when the bullet is pressed in which leads me to believe it has to do with the bullet or neck. it can't be the extractor, shoulder, or sidewalls of the round?

 

[gsxcorey]

Re: rounds "sticking"

Good idea on marking it all. I will do that and then chamber a round and see where it's rubbing. Great advice! The cabela's guy just said i probably didn't neck it down all the way is what he said. I should just try and neck size it againd and make sure it's 100% hitting the shell holder is what he said. Other then that he said bring it all in and lets see if we can figure it out.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuzzball</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-style: italic">"I'm assuming a good gunsmith knows reloading and can tell me what I need to do here or what the cause of this is."</span>

That may be a bad assumption, a lot of competent gunsmiths aren't reloaders. I'm not familiar with the "gold match set" but if Cabela's loading guru thinks you need to turn a conventional neck sizer further down to move a shoulder he may be questionable too.

Knowing where the binding is occuring is the first step in correcting it. Before you do anything else, paint a 'sticking' cartridge with a dark felt tip marker and chamber it, go in and out a couple of times and then remove to look for rub-offs; you should be able to tell where it's binding quite easily.

If the neck shows a full circumference rub the necks are indeed too thick. If the neck shows a hard rub on one side of the mouth and another rub on the opposite side at the shoulder you have massive neck runout. If you have a full circumference rub at the body/shoulder junction you're likely doing an excessive crimp that bulges the shoulder.

</div></div>

 

[gsxcorey]

Re: rounds "sticking"

Okay, so it's hitting the bullet right where it meets the neck on one side only. very weird.

What is weird is I used the Hornady headspace checker and used the same type of bullet with it and it's telling me 3.72 to the lands for the coal. I'm setting these to 3.605 which is the same as the COAL for the 250gr store bought lapua rounds. and it's hitting?

I backed it down to 3.5x and all of the sudden it started loading properly. This is very weird.

 

[gsxcorey]

Re: rounds "sticking"

Did he hornady check again and it's 3.7 to the lands, but if i do anything over 3.56 on my reloads then the bullet is coming out with marks on it. Very weird.

What I don't get is that the hornady tool uses their round, but my bullet and it should hit the lands with the same COAL as my reloads. I don't see why the measurement would be different then my reloads? I swear i'm using the tool properly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCPgKNp8i7o
I'm using this tool.

 

[gsxcorey]

Re: rounds "sticking"

Well I called hornady as their tool is saying 3.7 to the lands, but with just my reloads the bullet is scratching bad on one side. If i jam the bolt shut i have to hit the bolt with my fist to extract the bullet and it's got a big scratch/divot on one side. He said if it's a mark on one side it's not the lands at all, but probably the ojive digging in due to the neck not being 100% perfect. He said to turn the neck as you guys are saying. He said lately with savage they are hearing their chamber is being very tight lately. I'm shocked with lapua brass i would have to turn the necks, but based on what is happening it sounds like it. I ordered the stuff in to turn the necks so we will see.

 

[former naval person]

Re: rounds "sticking"

You may have a chamber that is cut improperly. Maybe a sliver is sticking up on one side.

 

[gsxcorey]

Re: rounds "sticking"

I thought the chamber may have an issue, but i checked with a go/no go gauge and it came out fine and the store bought ammo works just fine? Based on this I can assume the chamber is fine?

I did run a bore snake through it as well to ensure nothing was up in there. Something with the necks would make sense on why the hornady test comes back to 3.7 which sounds about right for the COAL and the store bought 3.6 COAL work just fine. But for some reason my reloads even down to 3.55 are hitting the bullet on one side

 

[gsxcorey]

Re: rounds "sticking"

Well the hornady tool is right. I took a good lapua store bought 250gr bullet and pulled the bullet, dumped the powder out, and put one of my 300gr's in it and took the COAL to 3.68 as the hornady tool says the lands are at 3.7 and sure enough it chambered perfectly. So it's not the bullets.

Not the bullets
I can chamber a neck sized or full size brass fine w/o bullet
Only with the bullet in the brass is there an issue and only on resized brass.

It has to be the neck I'm assuming as the neck would be the only thing that changes when the bullet is pressed? I used the gold match rcbs so the bullet has to be going in straight and if it wasn't then i would have the issue with the store bought brass and taking it apart and putting my bullet in it, but i don't which means it's the resized/once fired neck.

I have stuff to turn the neck on the way and I hope this fixes it as I can't think of anything else.

 

[oldfatguy]

Re: rounds "sticking"

Well I called hornady as their tool is saying 3.7 to the lands, <span style="color: #FF0000">but with just my reloads the bullet is scratching bad on one side.</span> If i jam the bolt shut i have to hit the bolt with my fist to extract the bullet and it's got a big scratch/divot on one side. He said if it's a mark on one side it's not the lands at all, but probably the ojive digging in <span style="color: #FF0000">due to the neck not being 100% perfect.</span>

If the cases have not been resized after the bent stem, then there might be a serious concentricity problem. Easy to check. Roll your loaded & sticky rounds across a piece of glass and look for run-out at the bullet tip.

OFG

 

[gsxcorey]

Re: rounds "sticking"

That was with the full die set. I just looked at the neck size die and found the decapping pin wobbled when i rolled it across glass. I think this may have been the issue. RCBS is sending new parts for both die's. I can't see the bullet tip wobbling, but they said it may just barely be out of spec and most likely this is the cause.

RCBS told me to ensure the shell holder is always in there straight before pressing. It's a common mistake they find with new reloaders that press a large shell w/o the holder perfectly seated then it bends things just a hair which be just enough to cause an issue, but barely be visible to the eye. I'm going to resize them when the new parts come in.

I'm hoping like hell this is the cause. I never would have thought to roll my die's on glass and see if the decapping pin wobbles (not straight).

 

[Helidriver]

Re: rounds "sticking"

Seat a dummy round to .020 off the lands. Mark it up with a marker as before. Add a small tick mark on the head and make sure that mark is at 12 o'clock when you close the bolt. Remove the round and check for scuffing. Now re-chamber the round with the tick mark at the 6 o'clock position. When you extract the round if there are marks on only one side of the case neck or bullet you have a runout problem.

Lapua brass is on the thick side and Savage chambers are on the tight side. When set up correctly together you can get very good accuracy out of this pairing. However I don't think this is your problem.

Just a word of advice. Ditch the RCBS dies. If you are using the competetion seeting dies they are notrious for runout problems. I've never had any that were good. Go with Redding. I have a lot of RCBS equipment but their dies are just not good for precision loading.

 

[BuzzBoss915]

Re: rounds "sticking"

This is a basic step.

When you first raise the ram in to your resizing die, make sure that the lock nut on the expander ball assembly is <span style="text-decoration: underline">loose</span>. Carefully engage the mouth of the case so that the expander ball is inside the neck. Then, stop and tighten the nut so that the expander ball and decapping pin are centered.

Another way is to carefully raise the ram to the base of the case and feel for the primer pin hole, making sure the decapping pin is inside the hole.... and then tighten the nut, as the primer pocket will center the expander ball and decapping pin. Everything should be properly aligned, at this point.


If you don't do this, this is likely why you bent the stem because it is very easy to tighten the nut with the expander ball assembly not true with the body. BB

 

[gsxcorey]

Re: rounds "sticking"

I will go with some redding when I get new dies.

buzzboss: Good advice. I probably did that to be honest. I did tighten the lock nut w/o checking to ensure the decapping pin and everything was in line. I just screwed it down to where I needed and locked it and went to town. Not anymore after hours and hours of trying to figure out why I was having this issue. I'm still not 100% sure this is the cause until I get the replacement parts, but i'm very confident it is as both were bent (one very slightly) and every shell I ran through those dies had issues but any shell that didn't worked fine with any bullet seated. I'll update the thread when I know. Huge props to RCBS for standing behind their product even when I told them I am 99% sure i caused it by newbie mistakes.

 

[turbo54]

Re: rounds "sticking"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gsxcorey</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Huge props to RCBS for standing behind their product even when I told them I am 99% sure i caused it by newbie mistakes. </div></div>

RCBS is outstanding. I've ever told them my broken/fucked part was 100% my fault, and I'll gladly buy the new part. They always replace for free.

 

[mtang45]

Re: rounds "sticking"

Did you chamfer the case neck after you resized? Frequently the resizing process will leave a small brass ridge around the mouth of the case. Difficult to see but definitely felt with a fingernail. Without the bullet seated the brass is soft enough to give; seated it has nowhere to go and with tight neck dimensions makes the bolt a hard lift. I know this from experiencing the same symtoms in my 7mm STW. Chamfered the brass and the problem went away.