- Thread starter Libilaw
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Re: Using FL die without expander
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Libilaw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a rcbs .308 die that has managed to bend the expander rod causing runout. Is it alright to go without the expander and then neck size with the lee necksizing die? </div></div>I do, then I finish with the neck sizer.
I'm not dead and my runout impooved.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Libilaw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a rcbs .308 die that has managed to bend the expander rod causing runout. Is it alright to go without the expander and then neck size with the lee necksizing die? </div></div>I do, then I finish with the neck sizer.
I'm not dead and my runout impooved.
Re: Using FL die without expander
your rcbs will probably perform better without expander ,bent or straight,anyway_the possible problem can be,fl sizing w.your die and after that n/only w.a Lee,that if the Lee will be not-so-finely regulated,has too much effort to work,due to a already supertight neck,crushing neck & shoulder in a new,funny shape_go slow,w/out sparing Imperial Wax inside & outside_
your rcbs will probably perform better without expander ,bent or straight,anyway_the possible problem can be,fl sizing w.your die and after that n/only w.a Lee,that if the Lee will be not-so-finely regulated,has too much effort to work,due to a already supertight neck,crushing neck & shoulder in a new,funny shape_go slow,w/out sparing Imperial Wax inside & outside_
Re: Using FL die without expander
Contact RCBS and get a new expander rod (and a spare).
Pretty certain that a bent rod indicates the dies were being used wrong. The good news is that RCBS will still send you a new rod regardless.
Please to not run the die without the expander.
Without it, the die alone will leave the neck diameter undersized, requiring more seating effort, probably shaving copper from the bullet jacket, and increasing neck tension dramatically and incorrectly.
Basically you will be compounding one wrong thing with another one.
Two 'wrongs' do not make a 'right'.
Lots of thought goes into reloading die design. They have been working really well for a lot of decades. Yet there's always some new guy who thinks they have a better idea; that their own superior intellect has discovered a better way.
Been there, done that myself. I was wrong. So is this.
Stop second guessing well established reloading doctrine. If there was a viable market for such devices, they would be on the market. Their very absence proves that such ideas are flawed.
There is a better way, the right way, to do what you want. It's called a neck bushing die.
Greg
Contact RCBS and get a new expander rod (and a spare).
Pretty certain that a bent rod indicates the dies were being used wrong. The good news is that RCBS will still send you a new rod regardless.
Please to not run the die without the expander.
Without it, the die alone will leave the neck diameter undersized, requiring more seating effort, probably shaving copper from the bullet jacket, and increasing neck tension dramatically and incorrectly.
Basically you will be compounding one wrong thing with another one.
Two 'wrongs' do not make a 'right'.
Lots of thought goes into reloading die design. They have been working really well for a lot of decades. Yet there's always some new guy who thinks they have a better idea; that their own superior intellect has discovered a better way.
Been there, done that myself. I was wrong. So is this.
Stop second guessing well established reloading doctrine. If there was a viable market for such devices, they would be on the market. Their very absence proves that such ideas are flawed.
There is a better way, the right way, to do what you want. It's called a neck bushing die.
Greg
Re: Using FL die without expander
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Contact RCBS and get a new expander rod (and a spare).
Pretty certain that a bent rod indicates the dies were being used wrong. The good news is that RCBS will still send you a new rod regardless.
Please to not run the die without the expander.
Without it, the die alone will leave the neck diameter undersized, requiring more seating effort, probably shaving copper from the bullet jacket, and increasing neck tension dramatically and incorrectly.
Basically you will be compounding one wrong thing with another one.
Two 'wrongs' do not make a 'right'.
Lots of thought goes into reloading die design. They have been working really well for a lot of decades. Yet there's always some new guy who thinks they have a better idea; that their own superior intellect has discovered a better way.
Been there, done that myself. I was wrong. So is this.
Stop second guessing well established reloading doctrine. If there was a viable market for such devices, they would be on the market. Their very absence proves that such ideas are flawed.
There is a better way, the right way, to do what you want. It's called a neck bushing die.
Greg </div></div>
So much truth in his statements....
well said sir.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Contact RCBS and get a new expander rod (and a spare).
Pretty certain that a bent rod indicates the dies were being used wrong. The good news is that RCBS will still send you a new rod regardless.
Please to not run the die without the expander.
Without it, the die alone will leave the neck diameter undersized, requiring more seating effort, probably shaving copper from the bullet jacket, and increasing neck tension dramatically and incorrectly.
Basically you will be compounding one wrong thing with another one.
Two 'wrongs' do not make a 'right'.
Lots of thought goes into reloading die design. They have been working really well for a lot of decades. Yet there's always some new guy who thinks they have a better idea; that their own superior intellect has discovered a better way.
Been there, done that myself. I was wrong. So is this.
Stop second guessing well established reloading doctrine. If there was a viable market for such devices, they would be on the market. Their very absence proves that such ideas are flawed.
There is a better way, the right way, to do what you want. It's called a neck bushing die.
Greg </div></div>
So much truth in his statements....
well said sir.
Re: Using FL die without expander
I love my Dillon RT 1200 .308 and .223 full legnth dies.
While they way-undersize the neck of the brass as bought, I bought hones and opened them up to where I get .002 under loaded dimensions for the neck.
I don't use and expander ball anymore with those calibers.
My loaded ammo currently runs 98%+ under .003 TIR, all of it under .005 TIR with the Forester seating dies when loaded.
I love my Dillon RT 1200 .308 and .223 full legnth dies.
While they way-undersize the neck of the brass as bought, I bought hones and opened them up to where I get .002 under loaded dimensions for the neck.
I don't use and expander ball anymore with those calibers.
My loaded ammo currently runs 98%+ under .003 TIR, all of it under .005 TIR with the Forester seating dies when loaded.
Re: Using FL die without expander
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1lnbrdg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I love my Dillon RT 1200 .308 and .223 full legnth dies.
While they way-undersize the neck of the brass as bought, I bought hones and opened them up to where I get .002 under loaded dimensions for the neck.
I don't use and expander ball anymore with those calibers.
<span style="color: #CC0000">My loaded ammo currently runs 98%+ under .003 TIR, all of it under .005 TIR with the Forester seating dies when loaded. </div></div></span>
Are you sure you don't mean .0003 & .0005?
OFG
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1lnbrdg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I love my Dillon RT 1200 .308 and .223 full legnth dies.
While they way-undersize the neck of the brass as bought, I bought hones and opened them up to where I get .002 under loaded dimensions for the neck.
I don't use and expander ball anymore with those calibers.
<span style="color: #CC0000">My loaded ammo currently runs 98%+ under .003 TIR, all of it under .005 TIR with the Forester seating dies when loaded. </div></div></span>
Are you sure you don't mean .0003 & .0005?
OFG
Re: Using FL die without expander
The expander ball is usually the first thing removed by many if the die comes with one. When the expander ball is pulled through the inside of the neck it follows the path of least resistance which is to the side of the neck with the softest/thinnest brass. There's nothing to hold it straight.
If you want less run out consider using a separate expander die like a Sinclair. It uses a mandrel rather than ball to expand.
The expander die is nice to have on hand when breaking in some new brass. Take it out of the box, run the expander through the necks top remove any dings or out of round. Then load and shoot.
The expander ball is usually the first thing removed by many if the die comes with one. When the expander ball is pulled through the inside of the neck it follows the path of least resistance which is to the side of the neck with the softest/thinnest brass. There's nothing to hold it straight.
If you want less run out consider using a separate expander die like a Sinclair. It uses a mandrel rather than ball to expand.
The expander die is nice to have on hand when breaking in some new brass. Take it out of the box, run the expander through the necks top remove any dings or out of round. Then load and shoot.
Re: Using FL die without expander
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Please to not run the die without the expander.
Without it, the die alone will leave the neck diameter undersized, requiring more seating effort, probably shaving copper from the bullet jacket, and increasing neck tension dramatically and incorrectly.
Greg </div></div>
That's exactly what happened when I tried it.
Now I just lube the insides of the necks with Imperial and run the cases through a Forster FL die. The expander ball passes through the neck smoothly in both directions. I don't have a gauge to measure run out, but neck tension is consistent and the ammo shoots great.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Please to not run the die without the expander.
Without it, the die alone will leave the neck diameter undersized, requiring more seating effort, probably shaving copper from the bullet jacket, and increasing neck tension dramatically and incorrectly.
Greg </div></div>
That's exactly what happened when I tried it.
Now I just lube the insides of the necks with Imperial and run the cases through a Forster FL die. The expander ball passes through the neck smoothly in both directions. I don't have a gauge to measure run out, but neck tension is consistent and the ammo shoots great.
Re: Using FL die without expander
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oldfatguy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1lnbrdg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I love my Dillon RT 1200 .308 and .223 full legnth dies.
While they way-undersize the neck of the brass as bought, I bought hones and opened them up to where I get .002 under loaded dimensions for the neck.
I don't use and expander ball anymore with those calibers.
<span style="color: #CC0000">My loaded ammo currently runs 98%+ under .003 TIR, all of it under .005 TIR with the Forester seating dies when loaded. </div></div></span>
Are you sure you don't mean .0003 & .0005?
OFG</div></div>
Nope, under .003 (three thousandths) for most and under .005 (five thousandths) for all.
I'm not sure if it is profitable to try to get to the .0001 (ten thousandths) level.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oldfatguy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1lnbrdg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I love my Dillon RT 1200 .308 and .223 full legnth dies.
While they way-undersize the neck of the brass as bought, I bought hones and opened them up to where I get .002 under loaded dimensions for the neck.
I don't use and expander ball anymore with those calibers.
<span style="color: #CC0000">My loaded ammo currently runs 98%+ under .003 TIR, all of it under .005 TIR with the Forester seating dies when loaded. </div></div></span>
Are you sure you don't mean .0003 & .0005?
OFG</div></div>
Nope, under .003 (three thousandths) for most and under .005 (five thousandths) for all.
I'm not sure if it is profitable to try to get to the .0001 (ten thousandths) level.
Re: Using FL die without expander
Put me in the Greg camp on this issue. (many other issues, BTW)
To not use the expander ball puts a lot of dependence on neck wall thickness. If you happen to be aware of neck wall thickness and know that your I.D will result in ideal neck tension, that's great; otherwise the shaving while seating happens, (or could happen, to be entirely accurate) maybe other negative things, as well?
So, it is speaking in generalities to recommend discarding the expander ball without a care in the world as to it's purpose. If you have a plan, that's different, but this:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is it alright to go without the expander and then neck size with the lee necksizing die?</div></div>
Not sure if you mean using the expander ball in the neck die instead, or discarding that, as well? In either case, if you use the neck die, why use the FL die? And, if you want to bump the shoulder, why use the neck die? Unless you want to use the expander ball? And, if so, why not just steal the expander ball from the neck die and screw it into the FL die?
BB
Put me in the Greg camp on this issue. (many other issues, BTW)
To not use the expander ball puts a lot of dependence on neck wall thickness. If you happen to be aware of neck wall thickness and know that your I.D will result in ideal neck tension, that's great; otherwise the shaving while seating happens, (or could happen, to be entirely accurate) maybe other negative things, as well?
So, it is speaking in generalities to recommend discarding the expander ball without a care in the world as to it's purpose. If you have a plan, that's different, but this:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is it alright to go without the expander and then neck size with the lee necksizing die?</div></div>
Not sure if you mean using the expander ball in the neck die instead, or discarding that, as well? In either case, if you use the neck die, why use the FL die? And, if you want to bump the shoulder, why use the neck die? Unless you want to use the expander ball? And, if so, why not just steal the expander ball from the neck die and screw it into the FL die?
BB
Re: Using FL die without expander
BB, believe libilaw is talking about the Lee Collet Die. It sizes the neck by pressing a collet around a fixed diameter mandrel. It does nothing to the body or shoulder.
Myself, I have a regular Lee FL die with the neck drilled out to 0.350 (and no decapper/sizer ball installed at all) so it only bumps the shoulder and doesn't touch the neck, then I use the Lee Collet die for the neck. I can't recall what the diameter of my mandrel is, but Lee will make one for you in whatever size you want to get whatever neck tension you want. I like the collet dies as it applies almost no axial force on the necks; only the collet pressing in radially against the mandrel.
BB, believe libilaw is talking about the Lee Collet Die. It sizes the neck by pressing a collet around a fixed diameter mandrel. It does nothing to the body or shoulder.
Myself, I have a regular Lee FL die with the neck drilled out to 0.350 (and no decapper/sizer ball installed at all) so it only bumps the shoulder and doesn't touch the neck, then I use the Lee Collet die for the neck. I can't recall what the diameter of my mandrel is, but Lee will make one for you in whatever size you want to get whatever neck tension you want. I like the collet dies as it applies almost no axial force on the necks; only the collet pressing in radially against the mandrel.
Re: Using FL die without expander
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1lnbrdg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I love my Dillon RT 1200 .308 and .223 full legnth dies.
While they way-undersize the neck of the brass as bought, I bought hones and opened them up to where I get .002 under loaded dimensions for the neck.
I don't use and expander ball anymore with those calibers.
My loaded ammo currently runs 98%+ under .003 TIR, all of it under .005 TIR with the Forester seating dies when loaded. </div></div>
That seems like kind of big TIR numbers. 98% of my loaded rounds are within 0.000"-0.0015 with a few really bad cases reading 0.003" TIR on the Sinclair. They all shoot the same so I just keep the "bad" cases. Hey I'm cheap!
I'm using a Dillon 550 press modified with a UniqueTek Turbo bearing and a UniqueTek modified clamping Whidden CnC'd floating toolhead. The toolhead is loaded with a Redding Competition bushing die, Redding Type S Match bushing full length sizer, Redding Instant Comparator and a Redding Competition bullet seater.
I'm getting excellent results proven by the Redding Instant Comparator. I conservatively estimate that my F/L sized cases are within 0.0005" of my target headspace. I can only guess at this because the dial indicator usually reads within two indicator needle widths (about 0.0002") of the target measurement and I'm conservative with estimates.
Per the Redding Instant Comparator Redding's Competition bullet seater seems to yield less than perfect ogive seating heights with some bullets like my favorite 168gr AMAXs yet is very consistent with more conventional shaped bullets like my other favorite the 175gr SMKs.
HTH!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1lnbrdg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I love my Dillon RT 1200 .308 and .223 full legnth dies.
While they way-undersize the neck of the brass as bought, I bought hones and opened them up to where I get .002 under loaded dimensions for the neck.
I don't use and expander ball anymore with those calibers.
My loaded ammo currently runs 98%+ under .003 TIR, all of it under .005 TIR with the Forester seating dies when loaded. </div></div>
That seems like kind of big TIR numbers. 98% of my loaded rounds are within 0.000"-0.0015 with a few really bad cases reading 0.003" TIR on the Sinclair. They all shoot the same so I just keep the "bad" cases. Hey I'm cheap!
I'm using a Dillon 550 press modified with a UniqueTek Turbo bearing and a UniqueTek modified clamping Whidden CnC'd floating toolhead. The toolhead is loaded with a Redding Competition bushing die, Redding Type S Match bushing full length sizer, Redding Instant Comparator and a Redding Competition bullet seater.
I'm getting excellent results proven by the Redding Instant Comparator. I conservatively estimate that my F/L sized cases are within 0.0005" of my target headspace. I can only guess at this because the dial indicator usually reads within two indicator needle widths (about 0.0002") of the target measurement and I'm conservative with estimates.
Per the Redding Instant Comparator Redding's Competition bullet seater seems to yield less than perfect ogive seating heights with some bullets like my favorite 168gr AMAXs yet is very consistent with more conventional shaped bullets like my other favorite the 175gr SMKs.
HTH!
Re: Using FL die without expander
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BuzzBoss915</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Put me in the Greg camp on this issue. (many other issues, BTW)
To not use the expander ball puts a lot of dependence on neck wall thickness. If you happen to be aware of neck wall thickness and know that your I.D will result in ideal neck tension, that's great; otherwise the shaving while seating happens, (or could happen, to be entirely accurate) maybe other negative things, as well?
So, it is speaking in generalities to recommend discarding the expander ball without a care in the world as to it's purpose. If you have a plan, that's different, but this:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is it alright to go without the expander and then neck size with the lee necksizing die?</div></div>
Not sure if you mean using the expander ball in the neck die instead, or discarding that, as well? In either case, if you use the neck die, why use the FL die? And, if you want to bump the shoulder, why use the neck die? Unless you want to use the expander ball? And, if so, why not just steal the expander ball from the neck die and screw it into the FL die?
BB
</div></div>
I think you may have misunderstood what Greg was saying.
If you are using no turn brass with a bushing die you will get much lower TIR with the expander ball removed. This is well known (see German Salazar's comments in <span style="color: #000099"><span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">Reloading: A Few Concentricity Questions</span></span></span> ) and easy to test.
There is another recent thread here called <span style="color: #000099"><span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">neck bushing dies - runout</span></span></span> where the OP was having severe TIR issues with his Redding Type S bushing dies. I suggested that he remove the expander ball and his results were nearly identical to mine with TIR of 0.0005"-0.001".
I have not tested a conventional full length sizing die with the expander removed but this is almost certainly a bad idea because of the way a conventional full length sizing dies work. A full length sizing die requires an expander to set the I.D. of a case neck which has been left very undersized by the full length sizing die body. If the expander is removed the neck will be very tight and will damage bullets when seated unless the neck is expanded with an additional process like a Sinclair mandrel die.
HTH!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BuzzBoss915</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Put me in the Greg camp on this issue. (many other issues, BTW)
To not use the expander ball puts a lot of dependence on neck wall thickness. If you happen to be aware of neck wall thickness and know that your I.D will result in ideal neck tension, that's great; otherwise the shaving while seating happens, (or could happen, to be entirely accurate) maybe other negative things, as well?
So, it is speaking in generalities to recommend discarding the expander ball without a care in the world as to it's purpose. If you have a plan, that's different, but this:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is it alright to go without the expander and then neck size with the lee necksizing die?</div></div>
Not sure if you mean using the expander ball in the neck die instead, or discarding that, as well? In either case, if you use the neck die, why use the FL die? And, if you want to bump the shoulder, why use the neck die? Unless you want to use the expander ball? And, if so, why not just steal the expander ball from the neck die and screw it into the FL die?
BB
</div></div>
I think you may have misunderstood what Greg was saying.
If you are using no turn brass with a bushing die you will get much lower TIR with the expander ball removed. This is well known (see German Salazar's comments in <span style="color: #000099"><span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">Reloading: A Few Concentricity Questions</span></span></span> ) and easy to test.
There is another recent thread here called <span style="color: #000099"><span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">neck bushing dies - runout</span></span></span> where the OP was having severe TIR issues with his Redding Type S bushing dies. I suggested that he remove the expander ball and his results were nearly identical to mine with TIR of 0.0005"-0.001".
I have not tested a conventional full length sizing die with the expander removed but this is almost certainly a bad idea because of the way a conventional full length sizing dies work. A full length sizing die requires an expander to set the I.D. of a case neck which has been left very undersized by the full length sizing die body. If the expander is removed the neck will be very tight and will damage bullets when seated unless the neck is expanded with an additional process like a Sinclair mandrel die.
HTH!
Re: Using FL die without expander
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Libilaw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a rcbs .308 die that has managed to bend the expander rod causing runout. Is it alright to go without the expander and then neck size with the lee necksizing die? </div></div>
I think you may be right? I didn't pick up on "expander rod" did I? <shrug>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Libilaw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a rcbs .308 die that has managed to bend the expander rod causing runout. Is it alright to go without the expander and then neck size with the lee necksizing die? </div></div>
I think you may be right? I didn't pick up on "expander rod" did I? <shrug>
Re: Using FL die without expander
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fw707</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Please to not run the die without the expander.
Without it, the die alone will leave the neck diameter undersized, requiring more seating effort, probably shaving copper from the bullet jacket, and increasing neck tension dramatically and incorrectly.
Greg </div></div>
That's exactly what happened when I tried it.
Now I just lube the insides of the necks with Imperial and run the cases through a Forster FL die. The expander ball passes through the neck smoothly in both directions. I don't have a gauge to measure run out, but neck tension is consistent and the ammo shoots great. </div></div>
I too fell into this trap. I was going to order neck honed FL dies from Forster, but ultimately decided to buy Redding FL Bushing dies. I may, one day order a honed die, but until then I am very happy with my Redding set.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fw707</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Please to not run the die without the expander.
Without it, the die alone will leave the neck diameter undersized, requiring more seating effort, probably shaving copper from the bullet jacket, and increasing neck tension dramatically and incorrectly.
Greg </div></div>
That's exactly what happened when I tried it.
Now I just lube the insides of the necks with Imperial and run the cases through a Forster FL die. The expander ball passes through the neck smoothly in both directions. I don't have a gauge to measure run out, but neck tension is consistent and the ammo shoots great. </div></div>
I too fell into this trap. I was going to order neck honed FL dies from Forster, but ultimately decided to buy Redding FL Bushing dies. I may, one day order a honed die, but until then I am very happy with my Redding set.
Re: Using FL die without expander
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cacciatore</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fw707</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Please to not run the die without the expander.
Without it, the die alone will leave the neck diameter undersized, requiring more seating effort, probably shaving copper from the bullet jacket, and increasing neck tension dramatically and incorrectly.
Greg </div></div>
That's exactly what happened when I tried it.
Now I just lube the insides of the necks with Imperial and run the cases through a Forster FL die. The expander ball passes through the neck smoothly in both directions. I don't have a gauge to measure run out, but neck tension is consistent and the ammo shoots great. </div></div>
I too fell into this trap. I was going to order neck honed FL dies from Forster, but ultimately decided to buy Redding FL Bushing dies. I may, one day order a honed die, but until then I am very happy with my Redding set. </div></div>
Cacciatore,
So you bought a Redding Type S full length die set? Are you liking the way it works? Have you checked your concentricity? Which bullet seater? Comp or standard? Just like to hear from others doing the same thing to see if they are seeing what I am in terms of measured results on the case after sizing.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cacciatore</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fw707</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Please to not run the die without the expander.
Without it, the die alone will leave the neck diameter undersized, requiring more seating effort, probably shaving copper from the bullet jacket, and increasing neck tension dramatically and incorrectly.
Greg </div></div>
That's exactly what happened when I tried it.
Now I just lube the insides of the necks with Imperial and run the cases through a Forster FL die. The expander ball passes through the neck smoothly in both directions. I don't have a gauge to measure run out, but neck tension is consistent and the ammo shoots great. </div></div>
I too fell into this trap. I was going to order neck honed FL dies from Forster, but ultimately decided to buy Redding FL Bushing dies. I may, one day order a honed die, but until then I am very happy with my Redding set. </div></div>
Cacciatore,
So you bought a Redding Type S full length die set? Are you liking the way it works? Have you checked your concentricity? Which bullet seater? Comp or standard? Just like to hear from others doing the same thing to see if they are seeing what I am in terms of measured results on the case after sizing.
