I'm getting set up to reload and have been aquiring the tools and components. Currently, I am trying to make some case bodies to use with my Sinclair Chamber Length Gage Inserts for .308 and 7mm-08. The instructions with the guage say to FL resize. I used a Redding type S FL die without a bushing and then a Lee Collet Neck Die to get the proper neck tension for the gauge. The 7mm-08 turned out fine. The case resized with appropriate shoulder set back and the neck resized from an initial slip-fit with the guage to now being a modest press fit consistant with the function of the guage. My problem comes with the .308. After resizing with the Redding FL, my necks are too tight to accept the guage. The guage slip-fits cases before sizing, but won't after sizing. I measure with the inside jaws of my caliper .305". It's as if there were a bushing in the die. Can someone tell me what's up or what to rule out next? Thank you.
- Thread starter kenmack
- Start date
Re: Case Resizing - What's not right here?
I think you need to start with basics instead of exotic stuff right away. BB
I think you need to start with basics instead of exotic stuff right away. BB
Re: Case Resizing - What's not right here?
What ever happened to people simply FL sizing with a die set up using a smoked case and a little old fashioned ingenuity?
I don't know how many times I will have to say this: You do not need a single fancy guage or measuring device to set up dies and load great award winning ammo.
You will continue to have headaches as long as you make reloading far more complicated than it needs to be.
The makers and sellers of high end fancy tools for reloading are laughing all the way to the bank.
What ever happened to people simply FL sizing with a die set up using a smoked case and a little old fashioned ingenuity?
I don't know how many times I will have to say this: You do not need a single fancy guage or measuring device to set up dies and load great award winning ammo.
You will continue to have headaches as long as you make reloading far more complicated than it needs to be.
The makers and sellers of high end fancy tools for reloading are laughing all the way to the bank.
Re: Case Resizing - What's not right here?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armorpl8chikn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What ever happened to people simply FL sizing with a die set up using a smoked case and a little old fashioned ingenuity?
I don't know how many times I will have to say this: You do not need a single fancy guage or measuring device to set up dies and load great award winning ammo.
You will continue to have headaches as long as you make reloading far more complicated than it needs to be.
The makers and sellers of high end fancy tools for reloading are laughing all the way to the bank. </div></div>
I believe the O/P is asking about setting up a case to use the Sinclair chamber length gauge, not a shoulder bumping gauge.
O/P, did you trim the case way back as the instructions say? I used their 308 chamber length gauge and got it to work. Since you have a Redding S bushing, what I did was to use a Winchester case that uses a .331" bushing and sized the neck with a .335" or a .333" to get a little looser fit to use the steel insert. It worked for me. What size S bushings do you have on hand?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armorpl8chikn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What ever happened to people simply FL sizing with a die set up using a smoked case and a little old fashioned ingenuity?
I don't know how many times I will have to say this: You do not need a single fancy guage or measuring device to set up dies and load great award winning ammo.
You will continue to have headaches as long as you make reloading far more complicated than it needs to be.
The makers and sellers of high end fancy tools for reloading are laughing all the way to the bank. </div></div>
I believe the O/P is asking about setting up a case to use the Sinclair chamber length gauge, not a shoulder bumping gauge.
O/P, did you trim the case way back as the instructions say? I used their 308 chamber length gauge and got it to work. Since you have a Redding S bushing, what I did was to use a Winchester case that uses a .331" bushing and sized the neck with a .335" or a .333" to get a little looser fit to use the steel insert. It worked for me. What size S bushings do you have on hand?
Re: Case Resizing - What's not right here?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I believe the O/P is asking about setting up a case to use the Sinclair chamber length gauge, not a shoulder bumping gauge.</div></div>
Yeah, he is, whether or not it may be necessary? I think there is some sentiment that he is making things way too complicated, since he hasn't offered a reason for what might be considered, a solution to a problem. What I am saying is, there are many people with a lifetime of experience that have not perceived a need for some of the gear he is asking questions about and he does not seem too clear, (himself) about what to do with it. People do not normally need it. No offense intended.
See here:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> My problem comes with the .308. After resizing with the Redding FL, my necks are too tight to accept the gauge. The guage slip-fits cases before sizing, but won't after sizing. I measure with the inside jaws of my caliper .305". It's as if there were a bushing in the die. Can someone tell me what's up or what to rule out next?</div></div>
Why bother with this, something 99% of 308 handloaders do not need and do not own. It is more for advanced solutions to accuracy endeavors, but he is just getting started; therefore my opinion rendered and it is not my intend to belittle or offend. (I already said that)
BB
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I believe the O/P is asking about setting up a case to use the Sinclair chamber length gauge, not a shoulder bumping gauge.</div></div>
Yeah, he is, whether or not it may be necessary? I think there is some sentiment that he is making things way too complicated, since he hasn't offered a reason for what might be considered, a solution to a problem. What I am saying is, there are many people with a lifetime of experience that have not perceived a need for some of the gear he is asking questions about and he does not seem too clear, (himself) about what to do with it. People do not normally need it. No offense intended.
See here:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> My problem comes with the .308. After resizing with the Redding FL, my necks are too tight to accept the gauge. The guage slip-fits cases before sizing, but won't after sizing. I measure with the inside jaws of my caliper .305". It's as if there were a bushing in the die. Can someone tell me what's up or what to rule out next?</div></div>
Why bother with this, something 99% of 308 handloaders do not need and do not own. It is more for advanced solutions to accuracy endeavors, but he is just getting started; therefore my opinion rendered and it is not my intend to belittle or offend. (I already said that)
BB
Re: Case Resizing - What's not right here?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BuzzBoss915</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think you need to start with basics instead of exotic stuff right away. BB </div></div>
Diddo...your making a mountain out of a mole hill. Build solid fundamentals first.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BuzzBoss915</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think you need to start with basics instead of exotic stuff right away. BB </div></div>
Diddo...your making a mountain out of a mole hill. Build solid fundamentals first.
Re: Case Resizing - What's not right here?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BuzzBoss915</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[quote
Why bother with this, something 99% of 308 handloaders do not need and do not own. It is more for advanced solutions to accuracy endeavors, but he is just getting started; therefore my opinion rendered and it is not my intend to belittle or offend. (I already said that)
BB
</div></div>
I do see your point. I've been loading for 40 years and recently decided to check the chamber length of my two L/R 308 rifles. I was making a Sinclair order and the chamber length gauge was under $6.00.
After all the years of being overly meticulous about trimming to 2.005" and never letting the cases go over 2.015", I measured the length of the chambers and discovered the chambers were 2.040" and 2.045".
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BuzzBoss915</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[quote
Why bother with this, something 99% of 308 handloaders do not need and do not own. It is more for advanced solutions to accuracy endeavors, but he is just getting started; therefore my opinion rendered and it is not my intend to belittle or offend. (I already said that)
BB
</div></div>
I do see your point. I've been loading for 40 years and recently decided to check the chamber length of my two L/R 308 rifles. I was making a Sinclair order and the chamber length gauge was under $6.00.
After all the years of being overly meticulous about trimming to 2.005" and never letting the cases go over 2.015", I measured the length of the chambers and discovered the chambers were 2.040" and 2.045".
Re: Case Resizing - What's not right here?
Ok I will still stand behind my original statement and add this.
I have used Sinclair max case length guages for years, what time I didn't make my own using scrap cases and a bullet to hold what I call a wedding band.
I have never had a problem using the Sinclair buttons. Make sure you are pulling the case over an expander button first. If that isn't doing the trick, take a bronze brush to the inside of the case mouth and qtip a tiny bit of lube inside. Make sure you are cutting the case back far enough. A press fit is what you need. As long as you don't have to beat the thing into the chamber with a hammer you shouldn't hurt anything in your chamber if the plug is a bit tight. All I ever put in a case needed a bullet puller to remove so they can be quite a tight fit in the case.
I still say you are over thinking the process.
Ok I will still stand behind my original statement and add this.
I have used Sinclair max case length guages for years, what time I didn't make my own using scrap cases and a bullet to hold what I call a wedding band.
I have never had a problem using the Sinclair buttons. Make sure you are pulling the case over an expander button first. If that isn't doing the trick, take a bronze brush to the inside of the case mouth and qtip a tiny bit of lube inside. Make sure you are cutting the case back far enough. A press fit is what you need. As long as you don't have to beat the thing into the chamber with a hammer you shouldn't hurt anything in your chamber if the plug is a bit tight. All I ever put in a case needed a bullet puller to remove so they can be quite a tight fit in the case.
I still say you are over thinking the process.
Re: Case Resizing - What's not right here?
Well how about that! It only took four replies before someone useful came along. Thank you Flight762 for your genuine attitude. And yes, I was building some gages for measuring the chambers of the rifles for which I will be loading. I did shorten the case per the instructions that came with the gage. I resized the case with the Redding FL bushing die without a bushing in it which I believed would leave the neck untouched like on the 7mm-08 which I had to neck size to get the proper fit for the gage. On the .308, the neck that prior to sizing would accept the gage, would no longer do so even before any neck sizing. So something is happening inside my Redding FL bushing die when used without a bushing that sizes my case neck down to 0.304" ID. The gage is 0.306". A once fired case is 0.311" ID. For my 7mm-08 gage I have 0.284" ID on the case and 0.283" on the gage. The case has been chamfered, brushed inside and lubricated.
I was somewhat surprised at the first few replies until I saw armorpl8chikn talking down from his high horse again. armorpl8chikn's was the first username I learned on this forum because of another of his haughty replies to someone seeking information. So before you wonder again "how many times I will have to say this", the answer is none because you are being rude and boorish. If you spent the effort you put into condescension into putting out information, my regard for you might differ, but as it is, and despite how much information, and experience you might or might not have, your responses are useless and unwelcome so get off this thread and ignore my future posts because you don't want to get into a pissing match with me as you are the one who broke the decorum while I was the one seeking only information. You would then become more of a laughing buttstock than you already are.
As for the other knee jerks, I'm the one reloading here and I'll put into it and get out of it anything I want. You say I should "stick to the basics"? Well what could be as basic as learning your chamber dimensions so as to establish a proper case trim length? There is nothing "complicated" about that. Maybe BB would consider anything more than throwing together some brass, powder and bullets complicated, but I don't. While I might have just made some of my first pulls on the handle, it doesn't mean that I haven't been studying rifles, shooting, machining, gun smithing and yes, even reloading for 35 years. As a matter of fact, I've multiple degrees, I taught myself how to train field trial retrievers, build boats out of wood to a degree of workmanship that is held in high regard on duckboats.net. I taught myself land management, trapping, and build my own computers. I also work a demanding job that requires keen analytical skills because lives are in my charge. So don't fool yourself into thinking something too much for me just because someone with a "lifetime of experience" doesn't "perceive the need". After all, people with a "lifetime of experience" still blow up guns don't they? You read flight762 second post didn't you? Heck, I just might get some cerrosafe and make me a chamber cast solely because I want to. It might just make my fundamentals "more solid" because when I do something, I do it to the best of my ability and that is how I choose to reload. If BB or chinkin or anyone else has a problem with that, put me on your ignore list. Thank you.
Well how about that! It only took four replies before someone useful came along. Thank you Flight762 for your genuine attitude. And yes, I was building some gages for measuring the chambers of the rifles for which I will be loading. I did shorten the case per the instructions that came with the gage. I resized the case with the Redding FL bushing die without a bushing in it which I believed would leave the neck untouched like on the 7mm-08 which I had to neck size to get the proper fit for the gage. On the .308, the neck that prior to sizing would accept the gage, would no longer do so even before any neck sizing. So something is happening inside my Redding FL bushing die when used without a bushing that sizes my case neck down to 0.304" ID. The gage is 0.306". A once fired case is 0.311" ID. For my 7mm-08 gage I have 0.284" ID on the case and 0.283" on the gage. The case has been chamfered, brushed inside and lubricated.
I was somewhat surprised at the first few replies until I saw armorpl8chikn talking down from his high horse again. armorpl8chikn's was the first username I learned on this forum because of another of his haughty replies to someone seeking information. So before you wonder again "how many times I will have to say this", the answer is none because you are being rude and boorish. If you spent the effort you put into condescension into putting out information, my regard for you might differ, but as it is, and despite how much information, and experience you might or might not have, your responses are useless and unwelcome so get off this thread and ignore my future posts because you don't want to get into a pissing match with me as you are the one who broke the decorum while I was the one seeking only information. You would then become more of a laughing buttstock than you already are.
As for the other knee jerks, I'm the one reloading here and I'll put into it and get out of it anything I want. You say I should "stick to the basics"? Well what could be as basic as learning your chamber dimensions so as to establish a proper case trim length? There is nothing "complicated" about that. Maybe BB would consider anything more than throwing together some brass, powder and bullets complicated, but I don't. While I might have just made some of my first pulls on the handle, it doesn't mean that I haven't been studying rifles, shooting, machining, gun smithing and yes, even reloading for 35 years. As a matter of fact, I've multiple degrees, I taught myself how to train field trial retrievers, build boats out of wood to a degree of workmanship that is held in high regard on duckboats.net. I taught myself land management, trapping, and build my own computers. I also work a demanding job that requires keen analytical skills because lives are in my charge. So don't fool yourself into thinking something too much for me just because someone with a "lifetime of experience" doesn't "perceive the need". After all, people with a "lifetime of experience" still blow up guns don't they? You read flight762 second post didn't you? Heck, I just might get some cerrosafe and make me a chamber cast solely because I want to. It might just make my fundamentals "more solid" because when I do something, I do it to the best of my ability and that is how I choose to reload. If BB or chinkin or anyone else has a problem with that, put me on your ignore list. Thank you.
Re: Case Resizing - What's not right here?
Delicate Flower on ignore list/check!
Delicate Flower on ignore list/check!
Re: Case Resizing - What's not right here?
Here's the deal, Chump. You should be grateful for all that took the time to respond to your pathetic question, those you like and those that failed to grasp your high intellect. Had you told us that you were the duckboat king right away, that would have changed everything, but NOBODY KNEW! Anyway, glad we (all collectively) could help.....you are welcome. BB
Here's the deal, Chump. You should be grateful for all that took the time to respond to your pathetic question, those you like and those that failed to grasp your high intellect. Had you told us that you were the duckboat king right away, that would have changed everything, but NOBODY KNEW! Anyway, glad we (all collectively) could help.....you are welcome. BB
Re: Case Resizing - What's not right here?
Is the FL bushing die a .308 or a 7 mm-08? Could the hole ahead of the bushing be sizing down the fired .308 neck? Might be if the original die was a 7 mm-08.
Is the FL bushing die a .308 or a 7 mm-08? Could the hole ahead of the bushing be sizing down the fired .308 neck? Might be if the original die was a 7 mm-08.
Re: Case Resizing - What's not right here?
It is a .308. The reference to 7mm-08 is that I had just successfully done for 7mm-08 with it's own FL die what I am trying to do with .308. There was no die mix up. In a side-by-side comparison between the two, I see no difference in decapper rod configuration or anything else with the dies. I'm starting to wonder if the die is incorrectly labeled and sold as .308.
It is a .308. The reference to 7mm-08 is that I had just successfully done for 7mm-08 with it's own FL die what I am trying to do with .308. There was no die mix up. In a side-by-side comparison between the two, I see no difference in decapper rod configuration or anything else with the dies. I'm starting to wonder if the die is incorrectly labeled and sold as .308.
Re: Case Resizing - What's not right here?
Another instant internet handloading phenom.
With all due respect go fuck yourself. I will indeed avoid giving you any advice in the future.
You would not have these problems if you owned a normal FL die instead of a bushing die. Just like I thought.
You don't like people like me telling you anything because you have your mind made up, trying to justify all that fucking money you spent on equipment you didn't need.
Another instant internet handloading phenom.
With all due respect go fuck yourself. I will indeed avoid giving you any advice in the future.
You would not have these problems if you owned a normal FL die instead of a bushing die. Just like I thought.
You don't like people like me telling you anything because you have your mind made up, trying to justify all that fucking money you spent on equipment you didn't need.
Re: Case Resizing - What's not right here?
armorpl8chikn, don't sugarcoat it? Tell him what you really think.
armorpl8chikn, don't sugarcoat it? Tell him what you really think.
Re: Case Resizing - What's not right here?
Only one question here...why is everybody cursing out the OP? I think a MOD needs to question this attitude. If I am a dumbass...so be it..but should extremely foul language and debasing language be a reasonable reply? I think not. Either the site is being debased or the tolerance for hate-speak is going up. I would sincerely dislike losing this avenue for information. However, it appears that the site is losing its center. I would prefer that someone could ask a question, no matter if dumb (and this is NOT a reflection on the OP's question) and get a decent reply, than he be called a dumbfuck for asking it. It is my considered opinion that armorpl8chikn is way out of bounds. The Moderators should chastise him/her, and issue a warning about banning if this continues. You,armorbutt, SIR, are a poor representative of the armed forces. My Opinion.
Only one question here...why is everybody cursing out the OP? I think a MOD needs to question this attitude. If I am a dumbass...so be it..but should extremely foul language and debasing language be a reasonable reply? I think not. Either the site is being debased or the tolerance for hate-speak is going up. I would sincerely dislike losing this avenue for information. However, it appears that the site is losing its center. I would prefer that someone could ask a question, no matter if dumb (and this is NOT a reflection on the OP's question) and get a decent reply, than he be called a dumbfuck for asking it. It is my considered opinion that armorpl8chikn is way out of bounds. The Moderators should chastise him/her, and issue a warning about banning if this continues. You,armorbutt, SIR, are a poor representative of the armed forces. My Opinion.
Re: Case Resizing - What's not right here?
Shhhh! Grown ups are talking.
I guess so far no one has experienced anything similar. Unfortunately, due to family and work demands, I've been unable to investigate much more than measuring the expanding button on the .308 die which, if I remember correctly (I'm at work and not at my bench right now), was 0.305. Even so, why are the once-fired cases going into the die at 0.311" ID and coming out 0.304" ID when it shouldn't be affecting the necks at all? That is the primary issue. I'm thinking a call to Redding might be in order.
The secondary issue is plain to see. Cast out the bait and real them in. It would be funny if they weren't so pathetic. Feel free to comment on either issue, and thank you again to any and all with helpful comments.
Shhhh! Grown ups are talking.
I guess so far no one has experienced anything similar. Unfortunately, due to family and work demands, I've been unable to investigate much more than measuring the expanding button on the .308 die which, if I remember correctly (I'm at work and not at my bench right now), was 0.305. Even so, why are the once-fired cases going into the die at 0.311" ID and coming out 0.304" ID when it shouldn't be affecting the necks at all? That is the primary issue. I'm thinking a call to Redding might be in order.
The secondary issue is plain to see. Cast out the bait and real them in. It would be funny if they weren't so pathetic. Feel free to comment on either issue, and thank you again to any and all with helpful comments.
Re: Case Resizing - What's not right here?
Formernaval, I think you are worried about nothing. Along with tolerance for mildly foul language, what I have noticed is a tendency towards allowing the conversation to flow without a hell of a lot of interference, since we are, (after all) mostly adults, former military....and that's the way we talk, in case you have not noticed?
I'm through opining and I suspect so is armor~ so if you feel like solving this guy's problem, go right ahead. And, good luck with that. BB
Formernaval, I think you are worried about nothing. Along with tolerance for mildly foul language, what I have noticed is a tendency towards allowing the conversation to flow without a hell of a lot of interference, since we are, (after all) mostly adults, former military....and that's the way we talk, in case you have not noticed?
I'm through opining and I suspect so is armor~ so if you feel like solving this guy's problem, go right ahead. And, good luck with that. BB
Re: Case Resizing - What's not right here?
kenmack, you're not making a good name for yourself here, I don't understand why you lashed out at BB and armor, they were actually offering very sound advice. I trim to .01" of max SAAMI specs like 99% of people and get phenomenal accuracy. Using the chamber length gauge is an unnecessary step imo and doesn't really add anything to your accuracy and doesn't really save any time or case prep.
Reloading is a hobby based off of experience, you can read all the books and articles in the world and still not have a clue what you're doing. BB and Armor have been doing this for a long time, they know the ins and outs and they helped me a lot when I was starting to reload, their advice is sound and rejecting it would be a novice mistake.
kenmack, you're not making a good name for yourself here, I don't understand why you lashed out at BB and armor, they were actually offering very sound advice. I trim to .01" of max SAAMI specs like 99% of people and get phenomenal accuracy. Using the chamber length gauge is an unnecessary step imo and doesn't really add anything to your accuracy and doesn't really save any time or case prep.
Reloading is a hobby based off of experience, you can read all the books and articles in the world and still not have a clue what you're doing. BB and Armor have been doing this for a long time, they know the ins and outs and they helped me a lot when I was starting to reload, their advice is sound and rejecting it would be a novice mistake.
Re: Case Resizing - What's not right here?
Be assured, there is no such thing as a dumb question.
Be assured, there is no such thing as a dumb question.
Re: Case Resizing - What's not right here?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kenmack</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I've been unable to investigate much more than measuring the expanding button on the .308 die which, if I remember correctly (I'm at work and not at my bench right now), was 0.305. Even so, why are the once-fired cases going into the die at 0.311" ID and coming out 0.304" ID when it shouldn't be affecting the necks at all? That is the primary issue. I'm thinking a call to Redding might be in order.
</div></div>
Okay, I was able to get to my reloading room to check a couple of things out. I took my .308 Win. F/L Redding S bushing die and removed the entire decapping unit out of the die. I F/L sized two cases. The necks were not touched. The neck outside diameter remained the same, going in and out they measured .344".
As far as getting the Sinclair G-308 chamber length insert to work for me, I took a Winchester 308 case. I trimmed it down .100" shorter than normal. I then drilled out the primer pocket as directed. I then neck only sized the case using a .333" bushing. This gave me just enough neck tension on the steel insert, without it being too much. Normally, i use a .331" bushing to size the necks for a proper neck tension fit on a regular bullet.
I have a couple of questions. What 308 brass are you using and what size S bushings do you have? Also, If you are using the S bushings, why are you using the sizing button in the die? I removed the sizing button from my F/L and neck sizing S bushing dies. You don't really need the sizing button since you are using bushings. The S dies come with a replacement nut to hold the decapping pin when removing the expanding button.
I use the following bushings depending on what brass I'm using. I have a good supply of a variety of 308 brass. For Federal brass, I use a .337" bushing, for Remington and Speer brass, I use a .335", Hornady brass a .333" and for Winchester a .331" bushing. I also have a .329" for neck turned Winchester brass.
I came to use these bushings by using Redding's recommendation of measuring the outside neck diameter of a loaded round and deducting .001" off of the measurement. I used a more precise Mic for the measurements, but a good digital caliper will work.
This has worked very well for me and because of the variety of the bushings, I can tweak the neck tension a little tighter when I'm loading for my 308 gas guns. I have this variety because I own 5-308 gas guns and 2- L/R 308 bolt guns.
I believe if you use a piece of brass tailored to your bushing size, you will get the results you want.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kenmack</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I've been unable to investigate much more than measuring the expanding button on the .308 die which, if I remember correctly (I'm at work and not at my bench right now), was 0.305. Even so, why are the once-fired cases going into the die at 0.311" ID and coming out 0.304" ID when it shouldn't be affecting the necks at all? That is the primary issue. I'm thinking a call to Redding might be in order.
</div></div>
Okay, I was able to get to my reloading room to check a couple of things out. I took my .308 Win. F/L Redding S bushing die and removed the entire decapping unit out of the die. I F/L sized two cases. The necks were not touched. The neck outside diameter remained the same, going in and out they measured .344".
As far as getting the Sinclair G-308 chamber length insert to work for me, I took a Winchester 308 case. I trimmed it down .100" shorter than normal. I then drilled out the primer pocket as directed. I then neck only sized the case using a .333" bushing. This gave me just enough neck tension on the steel insert, without it being too much. Normally, i use a .331" bushing to size the necks for a proper neck tension fit on a regular bullet.
I have a couple of questions. What 308 brass are you using and what size S bushings do you have? Also, If you are using the S bushings, why are you using the sizing button in the die? I removed the sizing button from my F/L and neck sizing S bushing dies. You don't really need the sizing button since you are using bushings. The S dies come with a replacement nut to hold the decapping pin when removing the expanding button.
I use the following bushings depending on what brass I'm using. I have a good supply of a variety of 308 brass. For Federal brass, I use a .337" bushing, for Remington and Speer brass, I use a .335", Hornady brass a .333" and for Winchester a .331" bushing. I also have a .329" for neck turned Winchester brass.
I came to use these bushings by using Redding's recommendation of measuring the outside neck diameter of a loaded round and deducting .001" off of the measurement. I used a more precise Mic for the measurements, but a good digital caliper will work.
This has worked very well for me and because of the variety of the bushings, I can tweak the neck tension a little tighter when I'm loading for my 308 gas guns. I have this variety because I own 5-308 gas guns and 2- L/R 308 bolt guns.
I believe if you use a piece of brass tailored to your bushing size, you will get the results you want.
Re: Case Resizing - What's not right here?
buzzboss...you are right. I guess I took to heart the admonition to not blast newbies. Sorry to butt in. FNP
buzzboss...you are right. I guess I took to heart the admonition to not blast newbies. Sorry to butt in. FNP
Re: Case Resizing - What's not right here?
I did not blast the OP until he blasted me. Read it again in order. The fact that I lamented the tendency toward complicated equipment absolutely fits, and is germane to this thread. Bushing dies are not needed to load match grade ammo.
I did not blast the OP until he blasted me. Read it again in order. The fact that I lamented the tendency toward complicated equipment absolutely fits, and is germane to this thread. Bushing dies are not needed to load match grade ammo.
Re: Case Resizing - What's not right here?
We're cool, FNP. Flightman is definitely taking the high road and probably will have this mess sorted out soon. Peace.
PS I had a Marine staff sergeant hit my truck yesterday afternoon, worst accident I have ever been involved with. We sure slowed traffic on the I-10; gawkers. Both okay, but I need a new bumper and rear quarter panel and I think he needs a new bike? Suzuki R1000 with a fat rear tire, good thing he was wearing leathers because he rolled past the front of my truck. Enough excitement for the holiday, I'm on the beach in San Diego, life is good. BB
We're cool, FNP. Flightman is definitely taking the high road and probably will have this mess sorted out soon. Peace.
PS I had a Marine staff sergeant hit my truck yesterday afternoon, worst accident I have ever been involved with. We sure slowed traffic on the I-10; gawkers. Both okay, but I need a new bumper and rear quarter panel and I think he needs a new bike? Suzuki R1000 with a fat rear tire, good thing he was wearing leathers because he rolled past the front of my truck. Enough excitement for the holiday, I'm on the beach in San Diego, life is good. BB
Re: Case Resizing - What's not right here?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BuzzBoss915</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We're cool, FNP. Flightman is definitely taking the high road and probably will have this mess sorted out soon. Peace.
PS I had a Marine staff sergeant hit my truck yesterday afternoon, worst accident I have ever been involved with. We sure slowed traffic on the I-10; gawkers. Both okay, but I need a new bumper and rear quarter panel and I think he needs a new bike? Suzuki R1000 with a fat rear tire, good thing he was wearing leathers because he rolled past the front of my truck. Enough excitement for the holiday, I'm on the beach in San Diego, life is good. BB </div></div>
Good thing you're alright, hows the weather in SD right now? I go to school there, right now I'm in LA, so I'm always curious how things are going down there while I'm away.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BuzzBoss915</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We're cool, FNP. Flightman is definitely taking the high road and probably will have this mess sorted out soon. Peace.
PS I had a Marine staff sergeant hit my truck yesterday afternoon, worst accident I have ever been involved with. We sure slowed traffic on the I-10; gawkers. Both okay, but I need a new bumper and rear quarter panel and I think he needs a new bike? Suzuki R1000 with a fat rear tire, good thing he was wearing leathers because he rolled past the front of my truck. Enough excitement for the holiday, I'm on the beach in San Diego, life is good. BB </div></div>
Good thing you're alright, hows the weather in SD right now? I go to school there, right now I'm in LA, so I'm always curious how things are going down there while I'm away.
Re: Case Resizing - What's not right here?
Overcast all day, so far, but the crowds are enormous, especially the Cantinas and Mexican restaurants. The homemade tortillas are so good!
This rental is a brand new remodel, has everything including a couple of beach cruisers and more wine than I could drink in a year.
CHP asked three , no four questions including/license/registration/proof of insurance.
1)Are you hurt?
2)Were you wearing your seatbelt?
3)Were you talking on a cellphone?
Lady cop said these were mandatory questions. I must have answered them correctly since she allowed me to leave after an hour. Poor guy, (Marine Staff Sergeant) got a ride to Menafee with his junked bike by the tow truck driver. He said he had never laid one down before. Actually; he was very lucky. BB
Overcast all day, so far, but the crowds are enormous, especially the Cantinas and Mexican restaurants. The homemade tortillas are so good!
This rental is a brand new remodel, has everything including a couple of beach cruisers and more wine than I could drink in a year.
CHP asked three , no four questions including/license/registration/proof of insurance.
1)Are you hurt?
2)Were you wearing your seatbelt?
3)Were you talking on a cellphone?
Lady cop said these were mandatory questions. I must have answered them correctly since she allowed me to leave after an hour. Poor guy, (Marine Staff Sergeant) got a ride to Menafee with his junked bike by the tow truck driver. He said he had never laid one down before. Actually; he was very lucky. BB
Re: Case Resizing - What's not right here?
Well, I did get to see the most spectacular fireworks screwup in the Country, last night. It was over before it started and nobody knew until this morning!
BB
Well, I did get to see the most spectacular fireworks screwup in the Country, last night. It was over before it started and nobody knew until this morning!
BB
Re: Case Resizing - What's not right here?
Sounds like typical San Diego to me.
What happened with the fireworks? wouldn't happen to have happened at Camp Pendleton, did it?
Sounds like typical San Diego to me.
What happened with the fireworks? wouldn't happen to have happened at Camp Pendleton, did it?
Re: Case Resizing - What's not right here?
Damnest thing, we were on a hillside at a park overlooking where SeaWorld is. About the appointed time, there were suddenly three huge "fountains" (and I mean huge) It's been in the news, I saw it on AOL. I will see if I can locate a link. I'm already back home. BB
edit:
San Diego fireworks show blows up in 15 seconds
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/05...0991.html?flv=1
PS The Marine has good insurance, they are reserving a full size pick up for me while mine is repaired. I was expecting a compact?
Damnest thing, we were on a hillside at a park overlooking where SeaWorld is. About the appointed time, there were suddenly three huge "fountains" (and I mean huge) It's been in the news, I saw it on AOL. I will see if I can locate a link. I'm already back home. BB
edit:
San Diego fireworks show blows up in 15 seconds
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/05...0991.html?flv=1
PS The Marine has good insurance, they are reserving a full size pick up for me while mine is repaired. I was expecting a compact?
Re: Case Resizing - What's not right here?
I just saw it on the news, though it was hilarious. Still, that kind of sucks for everyone we went out of their way to go watch it.
I just saw it on the news, though it was hilarious. Still, that kind of sucks for everyone we went out of their way to go watch it.
Re: Case Resizing - What's not right here?
I disagree, not sucks. Of all the fireworks these people have ever seen, they will always remember this one; it was pretty spectacular. BB
edit: please excuse all the off topic BS. Sorry. Maybe there is more that can be done to help this guy.....
I disagree, not sucks. Of all the fireworks these people have ever seen, they will always remember this one; it was pretty spectacular. BB
edit: please excuse all the off topic BS. Sorry. Maybe there is more that can be done to help this guy.....
Re: Case Resizing - What's not right here?
On the news, they kept interviewing people who said that it sucked and it was terrible haha, but I have to agree with you, that fireball must have looked damn awesome in person.
On the news, they kept interviewing people who said that it sucked and it was terrible haha, but I have to agree with you, that fireball must have looked damn awesome in person.
Re: Case Resizing - What's not right here?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kenmack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shhhh! Grown ups are talking.
I guess so far no one has experienced anything similar. Unfortunately, due to family and work demands, I've been unable to investigate much more than measuring the expanding button on the .308 die which, if I remember correctly (I'm at work and not at my bench right now), was 0.305. Even so, why are the once-fired cases going into the die at 0.311" ID and coming out 0.304" ID when it shouldn't be affecting the necks at all? That is the primary issue. I'm thinking a call to Redding might be in order.
The secondary issue is plain to see. Cast out the bait and real them in. It would be funny if they weren't so pathetic. Feel free to comment on either issue, and thank you again to any and all with helpful comments. </div></div>
Kenmack,
Please just filter out the noise as there is some very good info to be had here on the Hide. Yes it is true that a lot of the self professed old timer experts are not interested in using any tools they think did not exist back in the day when they walked with the dinosaurs. Instead these old timers use experience and guess work to eventually arrive at a solution that they think will work and sometimes it does work after months of trying to figure it out.
A lot of these old school methods work but for many like yourself you don't want to waste time and money trying to guess what is going on with your project you prefer to quantify the problem and solve for it. This is the measurement and tool using engineering method and IMO this is a better process than trying to figure it out using smoke and string along with more than a little duct tape like was done when good tools cost a lot more.
But there are a few old timers like me here who welcome the now widely available and relatively inexpensive tools that can accurately and reliably put numbers to what is for me has been a fascinating life long sport encompassing engineering and physics. I wish high school and college science was taught using what goes on in a rifle and what it takes to design and produce a bolt gun that can throw a rock 1,000 yards and land in the same place. We would have a LOT more engineers and scientists and the USA would still clearly be #1 in the world instead of continuing to ship jobs off shore.
Anyway if you remove all of the guts of your Redding Type S full bushing die and run a case through it the necks should come out just as they went in. If this is not the case call Redding and ask for a replacement die.
Please don't hesitate to ask more questions!
Hope this helps!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kenmack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shhhh! Grown ups are talking.
I guess so far no one has experienced anything similar. Unfortunately, due to family and work demands, I've been unable to investigate much more than measuring the expanding button on the .308 die which, if I remember correctly (I'm at work and not at my bench right now), was 0.305. Even so, why are the once-fired cases going into the die at 0.311" ID and coming out 0.304" ID when it shouldn't be affecting the necks at all? That is the primary issue. I'm thinking a call to Redding might be in order.
The secondary issue is plain to see. Cast out the bait and real them in. It would be funny if they weren't so pathetic. Feel free to comment on either issue, and thank you again to any and all with helpful comments. </div></div>
Kenmack,
Please just filter out the noise as there is some very good info to be had here on the Hide. Yes it is true that a lot of the self professed old timer experts are not interested in using any tools they think did not exist back in the day when they walked with the dinosaurs. Instead these old timers use experience and guess work to eventually arrive at a solution that they think will work and sometimes it does work after months of trying to figure it out.
A lot of these old school methods work but for many like yourself you don't want to waste time and money trying to guess what is going on with your project you prefer to quantify the problem and solve for it. This is the measurement and tool using engineering method and IMO this is a better process than trying to figure it out using smoke and string along with more than a little duct tape like was done when good tools cost a lot more.
But there are a few old timers like me here who welcome the now widely available and relatively inexpensive tools that can accurately and reliably put numbers to what is for me has been a fascinating life long sport encompassing engineering and physics. I wish high school and college science was taught using what goes on in a rifle and what it takes to design and produce a bolt gun that can throw a rock 1,000 yards and land in the same place. We would have a LOT more engineers and scientists and the USA would still clearly be #1 in the world instead of continuing to ship jobs off shore.
Anyway if you remove all of the guts of your Redding Type S full bushing die and run a case through it the necks should come out just as they went in. If this is not the case call Redding and ask for a replacement die.
Please don't hesitate to ask more questions!
Hope this helps!
Re: Case Resizing - What's not right here?
All I got to say is Welcome. You should expect a few more hazing comments. One thing you will learn as time goes by is that this site has a few members that LOVE to argue and "know all". But the vast majority are good guys and if you need, pm me and I'll help if I can. No expert
All I got to say is Welcome. You should expect a few more hazing comments. One thing you will learn as time goes by is that this site has a few members that LOVE to argue and "know all". But the vast majority are good guys and if you need, pm me and I'll help if I can. No expert
Re: Case Resizing - What's not right here?
Re: Case Resizing - What's not right here? [Re: kenmack]
Fuzzball
Master Sergeant
Registered: 01/19/09
Posts: 1782
"After resizing with the Redding FL, my necks are too tight to accept the guage."
I'm an expert; push harder, it'll go in.
_________________________
** Common sense is an uncommon quality. **
That's what she said
Re: Case Resizing - What's not right here? [Re: kenmack]
Fuzzball
Master Sergeant
Registered: 01/19/09
Posts: 1782
"After resizing with the Redding FL, my necks are too tight to accept the guage."
I'm an expert; push harder, it'll go in.
_________________________
** Common sense is an uncommon quality. **
That's what she said
Re: Case Resizing - What's not right here?
Lol
Lol
