Gunsmithing Extraction problems after cerakoting R700 bolt

[JB02]

Seems like I have made a real "rookie mistake" in my desire to get a couple of barrel actions cerakoted. I'm interested in knowing from more knowledgeable people here on the Hide if there are other things I should evaluate and consider:

The background:

Living in CT, gunsmithing services are a tad harder to come by than in e.g., Kansas City, MO. So, I was absolutely stoked to come across a place that offered me a great price on cerakoting two R700 SA barreled actions in less than 1 week. A disclaimer is that this company does no gunsmithing work other than cerakote finishing.

One BA was done OD green and the other black.

First mistake:

I neglected to tell the company to leave cerakote off the lug and bolt face assembly. For the matte OD green finish especially, this small layer of finish created an very tight finish. But on both rifles, a considerable amount of bolt cycling was needed on an empty case, along with some scrubbing with a bristle brush and Butch's bore shine on the bolt face and lugs, to get the bolt to close into battery. I realize that this will wear in with time, but I could have saved myself lots of aggravation.

Second mistake:

I didn't realize until after the fact that cerakote cures for quite some time at a very elevated temperature. It seems that this temperature, and time at temperature, is significant enough to affect the material properties of the R700 non-riveted extractor such that it causes the extractor to loose the spring tension necessary to grip the case and pull it out from the chamber. The rifle done in OD green will not extract cases, period and the one done in black finish no has intermitent extraction problems. Two new extractors are on their way from Brownells, but it is aggravating to realize I could have probably prevented this by just removing the extractor from the bolt from the get go.

Obviously, if the new extractors from Brownells don't solve the issue, I have a more significant problem. I don't think I need to hold the finishing company responsible for this because they just did what I asked them to do. I was an idiot by not being smarter about my gear and taking proper precautions. I'm wondering if there is anything else I should do or evaluate?

 

[darrenk75b]

Re: Extraction problems after cerakoting R700 bolt

The temp it is cured at should not be affecting the material properties of the steel.

 

[hero's machine]

Re: Extraction problems after cerakoting R700 bolt

Oh boy.....the oven I use has no chance of effecting the extractor. Most springs are drawn to around 800* so sub 300* won't make any difference in its life. Is the chamber coated? Are these both stock bolts, ptg or sleeved? If it is binding on a stock bolt, it is likely that the headspace changed enough to crush the case a bit and cause hard extraction. Is there any sign of blasting media around the extractor?

When I coat a bolt on a finished rifle, I don't coat the bolt. The face and lugs were machined to a standard and adding to the face and lug just changed that standard. If the chamber was not coated, I would check the extractor out of the gun, if it worked, I would tape up a line near the back of the bolt lugs and blast the bolt head clean with glass beads....not ao. That should get you back to your original headspace. You may or may not need to lap the lugs in depending on how crazy the blasting was. You can warm the bolt head up to around 150-200* and wipe it with cold blue and it will take nicely.

Before you do anything, click a shell into the bolt and verify the ejector and extractor are working. I could see some grit in the ejector giving you fits too.

 

[JB02]

Re: Extraction problems after cerakoting R700 bolt

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: darrenk75b</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The temp it is cured at should not be affecting the material properties of the steel.</div></div>

If it wasn't the cure temperature, is there anything else in the cerakoting process that could affect extraction? Both rifles extracted cases without issue before I have them cerakoted.

Although I don't have any tools to make any measurements, the claws on both extractors seem a little different in that they don't protrude as much as they did prior to the cerakoting.

 

[JB02]

Re: Extraction problems after cerakoting R700 bolt

Hero, these are stock bolts. I hope the chamber isn't coated! I'll need to check that.

Thanks for your suggestions. At a minimum, I will have that done. I may have a friend that can do the blasting for me, or I will take the bolts to the company an have them perform operations per your instructions.

Since I ordered new extractors, I might as well put them in too.

The ejector appears to be working, but I'll look into making sure I have proper function there too.

 

[JB02]

Re: Extraction problems after cerakoting R700 bolt

Luckily I was able to get in touch with someone at the finishing company today.

He said that heavy duty plugs are inserted into both ends of the rifle; no chance of getting cerakote in the chamber. I looked into the BA with a maglight. No cerakote, but the receiver/barrel interface is really gunked up and needs to be cleaned out.

My intention is to have the cerakote removed from the bolt body, lugs and bolt face using glass bead blasting or whatever process they have that will not distort the underlying finish.

I hope this works.

 

[hero's machine]

Re: Extraction problems after cerakoting R700 bolt

You don't have to strip the whole bolt, just from the lugs forward......but, if there is crap in there, clean it out first. The last thing you want is ao camping out in the most important surface on your gun.

 

[JB02]

Re: Extraction problems after cerakoting R700 bolt

Thanks Hero. I've spent all morning brushing and cleaning the bolt lugs and bolt face with Butch's Bore Shine. Made sure everything was clean in the extractor and ejector area, no grit, etc. Also used a shotgun bristle brush, a tooth brush, and lots of rags to clean out the ledge on the barrel/action interface. Cycled the bolt many, many times and repeated.

This, it seems, has fixed the problem.

One issue I realized is that my friend, who is new to shooting, was putting in a fired case (not FL sized or anything) from my rifle into his. No wonder the bolt has having a hard time locking into battery. Put in normal, FL sized cases and everything works fine.

On my rifle, I noticed that sometimes the rounds weren't ejecting because my dummy is loaded with such a long OAL that in some instances the tip of the bullet was being knocked on the side of the receiver back into the magazine. Being nice and controlled everything is extracting right.

When we go to the range tomorrow we'll see how everything works out.

 

[my human host]

Re: Extraction problems after cerakoting R700 bolt

It's the abrasive blasting that ruins the extractors. I've had it happen on a couple of older 700's I duracoated. No heat was involved.

I've since learned to go easy when blasting the boltface. Buildup should not have been an issue with your rifles. Hopefully they take note of your diffuculties and change their methods a bit.

 

[1snowcat]

Re: Extraction problems after cerakoting R700 bolt

I had the same problem with a Remington 700 300 Win mag.

It was the Aluminum Oxide (sand blast media) that made extractor rough....making it hard to chamber a round.. OIled the extractor good and it seemed to smooth up nicely





Live and learn if you live long enough...

 

[eddief]

Re: Extraction problems after cerakoting R700 bolt

Guys, this is why you should mask off the bolt face and rear of the lugs when cerakoting.

The heat from the oven will not affect the extractor. I would bet your extractor got a grain or two of blasting media stuck in it. This is keeping the extractor from springing in and out as it should, to snap over the case rim and capture the rim.

Before and after every time I coat a rem 700 I test the extractor's. Even with masking the bolt face off, sometimes a grain of sand works its way in there and binds the extractor slightly. I always take a 1/8" punch and check the extractor for function BEFORE any blasting. Just push in on the extractor with the puch to verify it's working correctly and note it.

Do all your prep, blasting, coating, etc. When the rifle is done, check your extractor again with the punch. If it's working correctly the same way before you did any work, and you don't feel any binding or gritty feel, you should be good to go.

If it isn't springing in and out like it should, simply put a drop or two of kroil on the extractor and push on it some more with the punch. This will help break free the extractor and get it working correctly again. Blow it out with some compressed air and maybe put another drop of kroil on it, verify the extractor once again with the punch and you should be good to go.

Blasting directly on the bolt face and the extractor is just asking for trouble if you ask me. YMMV but I have coated hundreds of Remington 700's and have NEVER ruined a extractor that was working correctly before my work.

 

[2156SMK]

Re: Extraction problems after cerakoting R700 bolt

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LT JGB</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
If it wasn't the cure temperature, is there anything else in the cerakoting process that could affect extraction?</div></div>

The abrasive media used to prep the parts for coating will cause all sorts of trouble if not cleaned out afterwards.

 

[sawman556]

Re: Extraction problems after cerakoting R700 bolt

I've Cerakoted a couple of 700 bolts with no issues. You need to break the bolt down, however, and take the extractor out. IMO, a good time to replace the extractor. You also need to spray very lightly on the bolt face and lugs. The tolerances on a stock 700 are not near as tight as my Stiller action. It should be a easy fix by simply removing the paint and replacing the extractor. The ejector might be get jammed up as well. Hopefully they were smart enough to plug the chamber.

 

[monteboy84]

Re: Extraction problems after cerakoting R700 bolt

I don't ever blast anything from the lugs forward, you're just asking for trouble. Plug the back of the bolt with a 1/2"-13 bolt (tape the threads so it seals) in place of the FP assembly, then tape up the locking lugs and bolt face with black tape.

I always Cerakote with the bolt face hanging down and don't spray it directly, as there's no reason to. The lugs get a light coat, but nothing heavy, I want it to wear off the back of the lugs in the first 2-3 times cycling after paint.

IF someone blasted AND painted the extractor in place, I'd never send them another dime...

-matt

 

[Precision Tactical]

Re: Extraction problems after cerakoting R700 bolt

agreed, bolt face down. Same for blasting