Hey guys, yesterday I purchased PT&G's one piece milled fluted replacement bolt for my Remington 700 in .338 win mag. I'm building a precision long range rifle but on small to mediocre income. I am a certified diesel mechanic although I now work in a factory with the economy like it is so I am fairly mechanically inclined so looking to do all the work myself that I can. When checking headspace I know the bolt should close freely on the go gauge and not close on the no-go. If it doesn't go on the go gauge I know you can lap the backside of the bolt lugs if it won't cam over. What happens though if it closes on a no-go gauge? What do you do to correct this problem and how do you go about doing this? I'm all for a knowledgable gunsmith making a living at what he does for a profession but need to save all I can. Thanks guys.
Gunsmithing Remington 700 bolt replacement PT&G fluted
- Thread starter tacsniper0888
- Start date
Re: Remington 700 bolt replacement PT&G fluted
That means your chamber is now too long/deep. You will need to take the barrel off, clean all parts very well, and take a set of measurements that will indicate how much material you will have to remove to set the barrel back. Once the barrel is indicated on the lathe, you can make the three cuts needed to correct your issue. One will be on the end of the tenon, 2 will be to deepen the bolt nose recess, and the last is the barrel shoulder. I have no idea what your experience withh a lathe, and indicating a barrel is, so assuming you have never done this before, I would suggest you let a rifle smith that does this on a regular basis handle it. I know it's not what you probably wanted to hear, but give it a little time, and see what the others come up with. There may be more than one way around this. I just don't know them.
That means your chamber is now too long/deep. You will need to take the barrel off, clean all parts very well, and take a set of measurements that will indicate how much material you will have to remove to set the barrel back. Once the barrel is indicated on the lathe, you can make the three cuts needed to correct your issue. One will be on the end of the tenon, 2 will be to deepen the bolt nose recess, and the last is the barrel shoulder. I have no idea what your experience withh a lathe, and indicating a barrel is, so assuming you have never done this before, I would suggest you let a rifle smith that does this on a regular basis handle it. I know it's not what you probably wanted to hear, but give it a little time, and see what the others come up with. There may be more than one way around this. I just don't know them.
Re: Remington 700 bolt replacement PT&G fluted
Another possoble aproach is to grind the recil lug. As the lug thickness is reduced the clearances between the bolt nose and barrel will be reduced so this may or may not work. Depends how much clearance you have to begin with and how much you need to move the chamber back, .005" to .007" is what I would consider min clearance between bolt nose and the the recess. Keep in mind that the flatness of the recoil lug is critical so you will need to surface grind it to skinny it up.Lathe is best aproach IMO. I would not lap very much off if headspace was tight, I think lapping should be reserved to just bring the surfaces in complete contact with eachother not to achieve correct headspace. Reaming the chamber the required amount would be the correct aproach IMO
Another possoble aproach is to grind the recil lug. As the lug thickness is reduced the clearances between the bolt nose and barrel will be reduced so this may or may not work. Depends how much clearance you have to begin with and how much you need to move the chamber back, .005" to .007" is what I would consider min clearance between bolt nose and the the recess. Keep in mind that the flatness of the recoil lug is critical so you will need to surface grind it to skinny it up.Lathe is best aproach IMO. I would not lap very much off if headspace was tight, I think lapping should be reserved to just bring the surfaces in complete contact with eachother not to achieve correct headspace. Reaming the chamber the required amount would be the correct aproach IMO
Re: Remington 700 bolt replacement PT&G fluted
other than headspace, the other issues that may come up is the front of the bolt lugs coming in contact with the rear of the barrel face and the bolt nose coming in contact with the face of the counterbore. if using a m16 or sako type extractor with a magnum bolt face, the counterbore may not be large enough diameter also.
personally, i'd save the replacement bolt until you are ready to rebarrel and then everything can be properly fitted. to correct any of the potential issues is going to be more work at this point would be part of a normal barrel fitting job.
other than headspace, the other issues that may come up is the front of the bolt lugs coming in contact with the rear of the barrel face and the bolt nose coming in contact with the face of the counterbore. if using a m16 or sako type extractor with a magnum bolt face, the counterbore may not be large enough diameter also.
personally, i'd save the replacement bolt until you are ready to rebarrel and then everything can be properly fitted. to correct any of the potential issues is going to be more work at this point would be part of a normal barrel fitting job.
Re: Remington 700 bolt replacement PT&G fluted
Do not headspace by lapping your bolt.
Have it done right man, by a smith.
Do not headspace by lapping your bolt.
Have it done right man, by a smith.
Re: Remington 700 bolt replacement PT&G fluted
On every PT&G bolt, that I have fitted, the bolt would not close in the action when received. Material had to be removed from the back of the lugs to fit the bolt.
On every PT&G bolt, that I have fitted, the bolt would not close in the action when received. Material had to be removed from the back of the lugs to fit the bolt.
Re: Remington 700 bolt replacement PT&G fluted
Thanks guys. Another question. All this talk of bolt face to barrel face contact and counterbore dimensions. Any of you that have ever installed one of Dave's bolts on a 700 hundred ever had any of this happen or just headspace it and your good to go?
Thanks guys. Another question. All this talk of bolt face to barrel face contact and counterbore dimensions. Any of you that have ever installed one of Dave's bolts on a 700 hundred ever had any of this happen or just headspace it and your good to go?
Re: Remington 700 bolt replacement PT&G fluted
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tacsniper0888</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks guys. Another question. All this talk of bolt face to barrel face contact and counterbore dimensions. Any of you that have ever installed one of Dave's bolts on a 700 hundred ever had any of this happen or just headspace it and your good to go? </div></div>
I have installed a Tubb bolt into a receiver while rebarreling it.
I would not plan on ANY bolt being a drop-in to an existing barreled action though.
Just use your original bolt until you are ready to rebarrel.
THEN get an oversized bolt and open the receiver up as part of a truing job.
Optimum extraction timing can only be achieved by fitting the bolt handle to the bolt body for your specific action.
Any of the one-piece bolts are not going to be optimum for your specific receiver as they all have to be made loose enough to fit into ANY factory gun...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tacsniper0888</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks guys. Another question. All this talk of bolt face to barrel face contact and counterbore dimensions. Any of you that have ever installed one of Dave's bolts on a 700 hundred ever had any of this happen or just headspace it and your good to go? </div></div>
I have installed a Tubb bolt into a receiver while rebarreling it.
I would not plan on ANY bolt being a drop-in to an existing barreled action though.
Just use your original bolt until you are ready to rebarrel.
THEN get an oversized bolt and open the receiver up as part of a truing job.
Optimum extraction timing can only be achieved by fitting the bolt handle to the bolt body for your specific action.
Any of the one-piece bolts are not going to be optimum for your specific receiver as they all have to be made loose enough to fit into ANY factory gun...
Re: Remington 700 bolt replacement PT&G fluted
I would not remove any material from the rear of the lugs on the bolt, it will affect the way the extraction cam works on your new bolt. Their are better ways to do the job as has been posted allready.
I would not remove any material from the rear of the lugs on the bolt, it will affect the way the extraction cam works on your new bolt. Their are better ways to do the job as has been posted allready.
Re: Remington 700 bolt replacement PT&G fluted
Slap a small piece of electrical tape on the base of the no go gauge and close it gently. I AM NOT SAYING IT'S SAFE TO FIRE IF IT DOESN'T CLOSE...but it will give you a little more information about how excessive your headspace is. There are lots of serviceable firearms out there that close on no go gauges. I wouldn't gamble on a magnum with excessive headspace but if the bolt doesn't close on the taped no go gauge, you know your headspace is less than 10 thousandths over no go.
Slap a small piece of electrical tape on the base of the no go gauge and close it gently. I AM NOT SAYING IT'S SAFE TO FIRE IF IT DOESN'T CLOSE...but it will give you a little more information about how excessive your headspace is. There are lots of serviceable firearms out there that close on no go gauges. I wouldn't gamble on a magnum with excessive headspace but if the bolt doesn't close on the taped no go gauge, you know your headspace is less than 10 thousandths over no go.
Re: Remington 700 bolt replacement PT&G fluted
Rifle 57, you have a PM.
Rifle 57, you have a PM.
Re: Remington 700 bolt replacement PT&G fluted
Robert (300 Sniper) prolly has the best advise.
At this point the new part is not right. Sure, there's a great deal of band aid fixes that will get you down the road.
One is pretty simple. If your not a handloader, shoot the gun as it is with the new bolt.
Excessive headspace is hard on brass because it stretches the web of the case on the first firing. While there exists methods to work around this when reloading (minimize the shoulder bump/full length resize operations) it's ultimately a temporary fix because the brass will likely experience a case head separation after a few reloads.
If your NOT a guy that loads "home grown" ammo then its very possible to shoot this rifle and never have an issue.
I'm sure this raises a few eyebrows, bear with me and I'll explain.
WWI and WWII is where the fabled .055" firing pin protrusion value originates. It was done this way because "Rosie the Riveter" wasn't always johnny on the spot with headspace. This much firing pin protrusion assured the gun went bang when Billy was shooting at the bad guys. Doubt it?
Take a fired piece of brass and keep dry firing it. After a few trigger pulls the primer will look like it was whacked with a ball peen hammer and punch, yet the initial impact is maybe .02" in depth. Why the extra .035" worth of striker travel?
It's to accommodate excessive headspace. It's a value that has carried over into the modern world. A few BR guys have experimented with this on the notion that it causes disruptions in the "flux vortex wormhole continuum" and by choking back on the striker travel guns will get smaller on paper.
Whether it works is open for another debate. . .
Point is if your shooting and tossing brass you could probably get away with a small variance in HS and never know the difference.
I imagine I've just opened a can of worms and someone will feel compelled to call me out as a smith that endorses shooting a rifle that has excessive HS. I'm not. What I am doing is stating a known fact. There are MILLIONS of firearms in circulation right now as I type this that would fail a headspace inspection, YET they continue to work reliably.
Why?
Because the brass is left to rot in the earth after being fired. Its when you attempt to reload it that issues often surface.
That is all I'm saying. Your rifle with this new bolt simply means now that there's millions +1 in circulation.
If its really bad (say in excess of .01") and/or if your a handloader, then as Robert suggested, it's prolly better to wait till the barrel is smoked and due for replacement.
The issue with messing with lugs (be it recoil and/or bolt/receiver) is that its a cascading effect on a number of other things:
1. Primary extraction timing
2. Breech clearance
3. Extractor clearance
4. Fire control failing to reset without fully cycling the bolt.
It'd suck if you went blazing after this only to discover that it resulted in a rifle that was now completely useless. The only solution being a new barrel and/or setting back the existing one.
As you suggested, your on a budget, so choose carefully. It's relatively easy to remove metal. Putting it back is a lot more difficult however.
Good luck.
C.
Robert (300 Sniper) prolly has the best advise.
At this point the new part is not right. Sure, there's a great deal of band aid fixes that will get you down the road.
One is pretty simple. If your not a handloader, shoot the gun as it is with the new bolt.
Excessive headspace is hard on brass because it stretches the web of the case on the first firing. While there exists methods to work around this when reloading (minimize the shoulder bump/full length resize operations) it's ultimately a temporary fix because the brass will likely experience a case head separation after a few reloads.
If your NOT a guy that loads "home grown" ammo then its very possible to shoot this rifle and never have an issue.
I'm sure this raises a few eyebrows, bear with me and I'll explain.
WWI and WWII is where the fabled .055" firing pin protrusion value originates. It was done this way because "Rosie the Riveter" wasn't always johnny on the spot with headspace. This much firing pin protrusion assured the gun went bang when Billy was shooting at the bad guys. Doubt it?
Take a fired piece of brass and keep dry firing it. After a few trigger pulls the primer will look like it was whacked with a ball peen hammer and punch, yet the initial impact is maybe .02" in depth. Why the extra .035" worth of striker travel?
It's to accommodate excessive headspace. It's a value that has carried over into the modern world. A few BR guys have experimented with this on the notion that it causes disruptions in the "flux vortex wormhole continuum" and by choking back on the striker travel guns will get smaller on paper.
Whether it works is open for another debate. . .
Point is if your shooting and tossing brass you could probably get away with a small variance in HS and never know the difference.
I imagine I've just opened a can of worms and someone will feel compelled to call me out as a smith that endorses shooting a rifle that has excessive HS. I'm not. What I am doing is stating a known fact. There are MILLIONS of firearms in circulation right now as I type this that would fail a headspace inspection, YET they continue to work reliably.
Why?
Because the brass is left to rot in the earth after being fired. Its when you attempt to reload it that issues often surface.
That is all I'm saying. Your rifle with this new bolt simply means now that there's millions +1 in circulation.
If its really bad (say in excess of .01") and/or if your a handloader, then as Robert suggested, it's prolly better to wait till the barrel is smoked and due for replacement.
The issue with messing with lugs (be it recoil and/or bolt/receiver) is that its a cascading effect on a number of other things:
1. Primary extraction timing
2. Breech clearance
3. Extractor clearance
4. Fire control failing to reset without fully cycling the bolt.
It'd suck if you went blazing after this only to discover that it resulted in a rifle that was now completely useless. The only solution being a new barrel and/or setting back the existing one.
As you suggested, your on a budget, so choose carefully. It's relatively easy to remove metal. Putting it back is a lot more difficult however.
Good luck.
C.
Re: Remington 700 bolt replacement PT&G fluted
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C. Dixon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's relatively easy to remove metal.
Putting it back is a lot more difficult however.</div></div>
That's probably one of the WECSOG rules.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C. Dixon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's relatively easy to remove metal.
Putting it back is a lot more difficult however.</div></div>
That's probably one of the WECSOG rules.
Re: Remington 700 bolt replacement PT&G fluted
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C. Dixon</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> It's relatively easy to remove metal. Putting it back is a lot more difficult however.
</div></div>
when i first dove head first into a cnc mill i had a machinist acquaintance come over and help me fire it up. of course i immediately fucked up a part. he asked "do you have the tool that puts the metal back?" i don't think he got the answer he was expecting when i pointed to my mig and tig machines sitting in the corner
i still use the "do you have the tool to put the metal back?" quote pretty regularly though
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C. Dixon</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> It's relatively easy to remove metal. Putting it back is a lot more difficult however.
</div></div>
when i first dove head first into a cnc mill i had a machinist acquaintance come over and help me fire it up. of course i immediately fucked up a part. he asked "do you have the tool that puts the metal back?" i don't think he got the answer he was expecting when i pointed to my mig and tig machines sitting in the corner
i still use the "do you have the tool to put the metal back?" quote pretty regularly though
Re: Remington 700 bolt replacement PT&G fluted
+1 for what Chad said above. If you can get a measurement of how excessive your headspace is and its reasonable, shoot it if you're tossing brass anyhow. Good luck!
+1 for what Chad said above. If you can get a measurement of how excessive your headspace is and its reasonable, shoot it if you're tossing brass anyhow. Good luck!
