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more BS for NY'rs inbound.

Re: more BS for NY'rs inbound.

Sarcasm or SOP?

I'm neither offended, nor surprised, by your "sarcasm", attitude, or inability to say something constructive. To you its always gonna be "us vs them" which is why as you say nothing changes. According to you we want anarchy, which means you aren't listening.

You sound tired of the job, or tired of criticism. It is totally within your power to avoid either.

In your quote, are you the sheepdog, or the wolf?
 
Re: more BS for NY'rs inbound.

I'm going to change the tone a little bit.

I'm concerned about the idiot wording in the following article concerning the shooting. It's typical 22 yr. old journalism degree graduate BS.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/20...after-shooting/


First ...
<span style="font-weight: bold">
"None of the bystanders, who were hit by bullets or shrapnel, were seriously injured. It isn’t that unusual for bystanders to get caught in crossfire between police and a suspect."</span>

Seriously? Shrapnel? Also, where does one have to get hit with a 40 cal bullet to become seriously injured ?
whistle.gif


Also, when was the last time you heard of 9 suspects getting hit by police officers trying to shoot 1 ... I repeat ... 1 guy in broad daylight who was only about 20 yrds away?
crazy.gif
Maybe NYC needs to spend more money on an ammo allowance to allow their officers more extensive training.


Secondly ...

"<span style="font-weight: bold"> “If he has to be neutralized in a crowd, it is better to take him out than to risk him shooting the officers and shooting other people in the vicinity,</span>” Kardian said."

Seriously? At what point do the 9 victims lives become more important than the 1 officer? Sorry, but I don't see the logic. I'm not saying that the one officer should lay down his life instead of fire, but for God's sake ... wait until you see that the guy clearly intends to threaten you or others before firing.

This statement doesn't make me feel <span style="font-weight: bold">ANY </span>better. I'm questioning the flawed logic behind this entire article. It seems to me like every media outlet today is hit with 'dumbassery' on a scale unheard of in my book.


 
Re: more BS for NY'rs inbound.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the cops killed because they were policing up their brass</div></div>

I've heard that story most of my shooting life, long before '96, I've also heard it was bogus since no one could come up with a ligit sourse.

But lets assume its true. I don't know of any training venue that requires you to police your brass as soon and you dump the cylender.

BUT:

Muscle memory works both ways, you can istill bad habits as well as good.

It's like Practice Makes Perfect. That is a bogus statement right there..........Perfect Practice Makes Perfect.

If you work at it, you can train yourself to count to 5 before you shoot. Not a good ideal but if you do it enough, you'll count to 5 before you ever pull the trigger.

There is an old army saying "you fight as you train" that statment works equally well in police work. </div></div>

There's a lot that I might have said, but it's been said already, and well.

The incident in which a police officer was said to have been found dead, clutching brass in his fist, took place in the Newhall area of LA County in 1970, involving four CHP officers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newhall_massacre

From what I have gathered, it's pretty much a matter of apocrypha. Here's a decent discussion of it, with commentary thereafter: http://www.policeone.com/Officer-Safety/...whall-Incident/
 
Re: more BS for NY'rs inbound.

In this situation it is not possible to ignore discussion about the fundamentals of marksmanship; to be closely followed by opinions regarding magazine capacity for LE.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slapchop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But you still haven't taken me up on my offer. I can arrange it so that you truly do feel "violated". Then you'll be able to post with a bit of street cred. </div></div>Does your department know who you are on Sniper's Hide? Because had anyone in my department posted much of what you have said to others on this Thread, and the department found out about it, that person would be called to account for speaking as a representative of law enforcement.
 
Re: more BS for NY'rs inbound.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In this situation it is not possible to ignore discussion about the fundamentals of marksmanship; to be closely followed by opinions regarding magazine capacity for LE.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slapchop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But you still haven't taken me up on my offer. I can arrange it so that you truly do feel "violated". Then you'll be able to post with a bit of street cred. </div></div>Does your department know who you are on Sniper's Hide? Because had anyone in my department posted much of what you have said to others on this Thread, and the department found out about it, that person would be called to account for speaking as a representative of law enforcement. </div></div>

I don't typically see the need to provide them with that kind of incformation nor do they solicit it from us. Does your job know who you are here? I'm sure you're going to say they do since given the tone of your post you seem to be the holier than thou robot type who I'm sure would be a blast to spend a tour with.

If you're gonna quote me to make me look like an asshole, that's fine because I am an asshole so you won't have to try hard but please include the whole quote. Don't edit bits and pieces to try to bolster whatever stance you may have.

Guess there is no ball breaking in Grahamlandia. Fucking robots.
 
Re: more BS for NY'rs inbound.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slapchop</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In this situation it is not possible to ignore discussion about the fundamentals of marksmanship; to be closely followed by opinions regarding magazine capacity for LE.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slapchop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But you still haven't taken me up on my offer. I can arrange it so that you truly do feel "violated". Then you'll be able to post with a bit of street cred. </div></div>Does your department know who you are on Sniper's Hide? Because had anyone in my department posted much of what you have said to others on this Thread, and the department found out about it, that person would be called to account for speaking as a representative of law enforcement. </div></div>

I don't typically see the need to provide them with that kind of incformation nor do they solicit it from us. Does your job know who you are here? I'm sure you're going to say they do since given the tone of your post you seem to be the holier than thou robot type who I'm sure would be a blast to spend a tour with.

If you're gonna quote me to make me look like an asshole, that's fine because I am an asshole so you won't have to try hard but please include the whole quote. Don't edit bits and pieces to try to bolster whatever stance you may have.

Guess there is no ball breaking in Grahamlandia. Fucking robots. </div></div>

Seems to be the general concensus of the few NYPD officers I have personally met. Too bad you feel like the world is your 'shit house'. A lot of you give a bad name to law enforcement around the country. It really makes you look stupid when you post nonsense like this, and it doesn't help your cause.
 
Re: more BS for NY'rs inbound.

I'm not here to gain favor from you or anyone else. So stop thinking that I am. Could care less what you think or what you think you know.

By the way, just so you know when a round strikes bone, concrete, brick they tend to break apart into pieces. Those pieces are called shrapnel. And pointing a loaded handgun at someone is about as threatening as it gets. And it's not .40 cals. 9mm

Don't opine on things you have no grasp on. Makes you look stupid and you do a disservice to roostershooters all over the country while doing nary to help your cause.
 
Re: more BS for NY'rs inbound.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slapchop</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In this situation it is not possible to ignore discussion about the fundamentals of marksmanship; to be closely followed by opinions regarding magazine capacity for LE.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slapchop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But you still haven't taken me up on my offer. I can arrange it so that you truly do feel "violated". Then you'll be able to post with a bit of street cred. </div></div>Does your department know who you are on Sniper's Hide? Because had anyone in my department posted much of what you have said to others on this Thread, and the department found out about it, that person would be called to account for speaking as a representative of law enforcement. </div></div>

I don't typically see the need to provide them with that kind of incformation nor do they solicit it from us. Does your job know who you are here? I'm sure you're going to say they do since given the tone of your post you seem to be the holier than thou robot type who I'm sure would be a blast to spend a tour with.

If you're gonna quote me to make me look like an asshole, that's fine because I am an asshole so you won't have to try hard but please include the whole quote. Don't edit bits and pieces to try to bolster whatever stance you may have.

Guess there is no ball breaking in Grahamlandia. Fucking robots. </div></div>

Damn I've been reading Graham's post a long time, I've never seen him stoop to the name calling and such I see from your post. If I was his chief, I'd be proud of the manners I've seen him display.

Guess it takes all kinds.
 
Re: more BS for NY'rs inbound.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slapchop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm not here to gain favor from you or anyone else. So stop thinking that I am. Could care less what you think or what you think you know.

By the way, just so you know when a round strikes bone, concrete, brick they tend to break apart into pieces. Those pieces are called shrapnel. And pointing a loaded handgun at someone is about as threatening as it gets. And it's not .40 cals. 9mm

Don't opine on things you have no grasp on. Makes you look stupid and you do a disservice to roostershooters all over the country while doing nary to help your cause. </div></div>

see Slap, that's why you give LE a bad name... you don't care about the public

and shrapnel is actually a type of artillery round named for a British Army Officer named Henry Shrapnel, he designed a hollow cannon ball filled with shot which burst in mid-air... designed as an anti-personnel round... what you're talking about is a bullet, or fragment there of.
 
Re: more BS for NY'rs inbound.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RoosterShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Seems to be the general concensus of the few NYPD officers I have personally met. Too bad you feel like the world is your 'shit house'. A lot of you give a bad name to law enforcement around the country. It really makes you look stupid when you post nonsense like this, and it doesn't help your cause. </div></div>

Slap epitomizes the exact kind of personality that NEVER should have been given a badge.

His contempt and venom for the very people he's charged with protecting is evident for all to see.
 
Re: more BS for NY'rs inbound.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Force_Multiplier</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slapchop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm not here to gain favor from you or anyone else. So stop thinking that I am. Could care less what you think or what you think you know.

By the way, just so you know when a round strikes bone, concrete, brick they tend to break apart into pieces. Those pieces are called shrapnel. And pointing a loaded handgun at someone is about as threatening as it gets. And it's not .40 cals. 9mm

Don't opine on things you have no grasp on. Makes you look stupid and you do a disservice to roostershooters all over the country while doing nary to help your cause. </div></div>

see Slap, that's why you give LE a bad name... you don't care about the public

and shrapnel is actually a type of artillery round named for a British Army Officer named Henry Shrapnel, he designed a hollow cannon ball filled with shot which burst in mid-air... designed as an anti-personnel round... what you're talking about is a bullet, or fragment there of. </div></div>

That's the edited version, FM. The unedited, original version of the response is nested in this post: http://snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3532362#Post3532362 Slap's done his profession a discredit here.
 
Re: more BS for NY'rs inbound.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Guy Montag</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RoosterShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Seems to be the general concensus of the few NYPD officers I have personally met. Too bad you feel like the world is your 'shit house'. A lot of you give a bad name to law enforcement around the country. It really makes you look stupid when you post nonsense like this, and it doesn't help your cause. </div></div>

Slap epitomizes the exact kind of personality that NEVER should have been given a badge.

His contempt and venom for the very people he's charged with protecting is evident for all to see.




</div></div>

Tissue? Some Midol perhaps?
 
Re: more BS for NY'rs inbound.

Listening to some of these people almost make me assamed to admit I was ever a cop.
 
Re: more BS for NY'rs inbound.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slapchop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm not here to gain favor from you or anyone else. So stop thinking that I am. Could care less what you think or what you think you know. </div></div>Then you've come to the wrong place. Because both are bona fide occupational qualifications for a police officer.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slapchop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't typically see the need to provide them with that kind of incformation nor do they solicit it from us. Does your job know who you are here? I'm sure you're going to say they do since given the tone of your post you seem to be the holier than thou robot type who I'm sure would be a blast to spend a tour with.</div></div>I have nothing to hide. And don't worry: You wouldn't make it on my team. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slapchop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Guess there is no ball breaking in Grahamlandia. Fucking robots.</div></div>I've been accused of being an independent thinker, but never a robot. As with any successful attempt at 'ballbreaking', one must first have the maturity to judge one's audience.

The point of my first post was only that if someone, someday, publicy posts your chief's e-mail, and he gets scores of complaints about you from reputable LE trainers across the country, then I predict it would be you who feels violated.
wink.gif
 
Re: more BS for NY'rs inbound.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Listening to some of these people almost make me assamed to admit I was ever a cop.
</div></div>

not almost, people like this are reason I don't do it anymore
 
Re: more BS for NY'rs inbound.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The point of my first post was only that if someone, someday, publicy posts your chief's e-mail, and he gets scores of complaints about you from reputable LE trainers across the country, then I predict it would be you who feels violated.
wink.gif
</div></div>

That's an excellent idea Graham.
 
Re: more BS for NY'rs inbound.

There's no reason to resort to tattling just because somebody makes themselves out to be a gigantic douche on the internet...
 
Re: more BS for NY'rs inbound.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Guy Montag</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Slap, your Village called. </div></div>

They must want you back.
 
Re: more BS for NY'rs inbound.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Guy Montag</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The point of my first post was only that if someone, someday, publicy posts your chief's e-mail, and he gets scores of complaints about you from reputable LE trainers across the country, then I predict it would be you who feels violated.
wink.gif
</div></div>

That's an excellent idea Graham. </div></div>I'm not trying to burn him. I'm trying, despite his anger, his name-calling and his vitriol, to protect him.

People that angry and that hateful need help.

Besides, I know something about the political climate in which he works, and if I worked there I would be more careful about what I posted in public.
 
Re: more BS for NY'rs inbound.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slapchop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm not here to gain favor from you or anyone else. So stop thinking that I am. Could care less what you think or what you think you know. </div></div>Then you've come to the wrong place. Because both are bona fide occupational qualifications for a police officer.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slapchop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't typically see the need to provide them with that kind of incformation nor do they solicit it from us. Does your job know who you are here? I'm sure you're going to say they do since given the tone of your post you seem to be the holier than thou robot type who I'm sure would be a blast to spend a tour with.</div></div>I have nothing to hide. And don't worry: You wouldn't make it on my team. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slapchop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Guess there is no ball breaking in Grahamlandia. Fucking robots.</div></div>I've been accused of being an independent thinker, but never a robot. As with any successful attempt at 'ballbreaking', one must first have the maturity to judge one's audience.

The point of my first post was only that if someone, someday, publicy posts your chief's e-mail, and he gets scores of complaints about you from reputable LE trainers across the country, then I predict it would be you who feels violated.
wink.gif
</div></div>

Doubtful. But the fact that you would even consider the above does make you a rat and speaks volumes as to your character. Another "trainer" who was never a cop.

I'm beginning to suspect that many of you aren't used to being told the truth in life.
 
Re: more BS for NY'rs inbound.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slapchop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Doubtful. But it does make you a rat and speaks volumes as to your character. Another "trainer" who was never a cop.</div></div>Your information is not accurate. Besides, if I had wanted to rat you out I would have done it already. You don't need me to do it: If you keep doing what you are doing you will end up, in the end, doing it to yourself.

Do yourself a favor: Talk to someone; get help.
smile.gif
 
Re: more BS for NY'rs inbound.

Slap, listen to Graham. You're gonna say or do something that just isn't gonna edit out. Is this thread really serving you any good purpose?
 
Re: more BS for NY'rs inbound.

rat... really?


I thought only criminals worried about "rats"... by my thinking LE's job is to be the "rat"... gather evidence and report it
 
Re: more BS for NY'rs inbound.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Veer_G</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Slap, listen to Graham. You're gonna say or do something that just isn't gonna edit out. Is this thread really serving you any good purpose? </div></div>

No, other than midly satisfying my need for a verbal joust it really isn't. I know my limits and don't need Grahams protection.

Speaking of, I hope my information is innaccurate about you but the indicators are there.
 
Re: more BS for NY'rs inbound.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Force_Multiplier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">rat... really? I thought only criminals worried about "rats"... by my thinking LE's job is to be the "rat"... gather evidence and report it</div></div>LOL! An interesting perspective.
 
Re: more BS for NY'rs inbound.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slapchop</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Veer_G</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Slap, listen to Graham. You're gonna say or do something that just isn't gonna edit out. Is this thread really serving you any good purpose? </div></div>

No, other than midly satisfying my need for a verbal joust it really isn't. I know my limits and don't need Grahams protection.

Speaking of, I hope my information is innaccurate about you but the indicators are there. </div></div>

I don't get it. Intel? On me? What, are you Jack Bauer now? Am I supposed to be feeling paranoid? If a whole bunch of people are saying the same thing to you, Slap, it isn't just the breeze in your face.
 
Re: more BS for NY'rs inbound.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BoilerUP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There's no reason to resort to tattling just because somebody makes themselves out to be a gigantic douche on the internet... </div></div>

Normally I'd agree, but exposing a cop who's a threat to public safety is not "tattling."
 
Re: more BS for NY'rs inbound.

The latter half of my post was not directed at you Veer. Coincidently I do agree with what you wrote about a bunch of people... The exception here is that I'm noting the source so I'll take it with a grain of salt.

Your concern is noted.
 
Re: more BS for NY'rs inbound.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Guy Montag</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BoilerUP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There's no reason to resort to tattling just because somebody makes themselves out to be a gigantic douche on the internet... </div></div>

Normally I'd agree, but exposing a cop who's a threat to public safety is not "tattling."
</div></div>

If you feel so threatened. Stop talking about it and make the call.

1 800-774-3373

Weasel
 
Re: more BS for NY'rs inbound.

After watching the video this was my initial reaction... Just how I saw it. A earlier post cleared it up for me though Thanks

579894_433361586706183_29968675_n.jpg
 
Re: more BS for NY'rs inbound.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: paulosantos</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYpatriot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Honestly, as bad as it is, we should also be careful not to make too much of incidents like this. It is obvious to me that these officers did not intend to injure nine additional people...so we may have a training issue and the after action analysis will sort that out if done honestly. Frankly, police officer mistakes of this kind are the least of my worries with respect to law enforcement. I care far more about misguided <span style="font-style: italic">intentional</span> police policy. The real threat any law enforcement agency poses to liberty is not the honest mistake but the well executed intentional violation of civil liberty that is rationalized away as being for the "public good." </div></div>

<span style="font-weight: bold">Thanks you. I could have said it any better than this if I tried. </div></div></span>

erm... you sure messed that one up.

As I remember, Slap's previous retort about us stoopid civvies wanting cops to be better (not inept) shooters is to vote for it. Because they themselves won't/can't/or whatever it is that stops cops from being able to raise their own skills on their own just like the rest of us who want to get better at our professions.

Bad cops exists because there aren't enough good ones to weed them out. Whether it's because that's 'the code' in some places - as illustrated by Dagsta when he recounted a time when other officers turned on one of their own by blocking her radio calls for back-up because she outed a superior or the usual 'Well, I didn't see him assault that citizen. I was looking at something else...'.

It seems whenever a criminal gets busted we all say 'good' but when cops do something felonious it's 'shut your mouth, you don't do the job so you have nothing to say.'

We all rant about Bloomberg and what a douche he his, but to be honest, he's only enabled by those who serve him. I've not heard any public servant from NY who's associated with fighting crime say one bad thing about him... unless of course it's to do with pensions or something money related.

Seems to me Bloomberg's in like-minded company.
 
Re: more BS for NY'rs inbound.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slapchop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Speaking of, I hope my information is innaccurate about you but the indicators are there.</div></div>I am not a believer in the 'us vs. them' mentality so prevalent among both the experienced and the inexperienced in law enforcement. Being an officer doesn't give someone access to a higher power, and it doesn't make one clairvoyant. So I don't agree that people who have never been cops can't possibly understand, or that because they are not cops they don't have a say in the policing profession. Being a cop doesn't make one special, or privileged. It's simply a different kind of job responsibility. Besides, I have seen far too many cops who, despite years on the job, still don't get it.
 
Re: more BS for NY'rs inbound.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: zmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body">After watching the video this was my initial reaction... Just how I saw it. A earlier post cleared it up for me though Thanks

579894_433361586706183_29968675_n.jpg
</div></div>

You have got to be kidding................I never broke it down like that. If that picture is correct, there is no excuse what so ever, NONE.

I've been in a fire fight a time or two, and I've been scared shitless more times then I'd like to admit, but never so scared that my shots wore ninty degrees off target.

When I was an FTO, before I released a rooky I'd ask my self "would you want this guy to go through the door with you".

Look at that picture and ask that question.

Again, I'm assuming its an accurate picture. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong.
 
Re: more BS for NY'rs inbound.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: zmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body">After watching the video this was my initial reaction... Just how I saw it. A earlier post cleared it up for me though Thanks

579894_433361586706183_29968675_n.jpg
</div></div>

You have got to be kidding................I never broke it down like that. If that picture is correct, there is no excuse what so ever, NONE.

I've been in a fire fight a time or two, and I've been scared shitless more times then I'd like to admit, but never so scared that my shots wore ninty degrees off target.

When I was an FTO, before I released a rooky I'd ask my self "would you want this guy to go through the door with you".

Look at that picture and ask that question.

Again, I'm assuming its an accurate picture. <span style="color: #FF0000">Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong.</span> </div></div>

How can we correct you when NONE of us were there and its kinda hard to tell from grainy still/video if he was indeed firing in that direction?

Don't bother answering, the question is rhetorical in nature.
 
Re: more BS for NY'rs inbound.

It pretty closely matches the video. Grainy as it is, its not had to tell who's who.
 
Re: more BS for NY'rs inbound.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It pretty closely matches the video. Grainy as it is, its not had to tell who's who. </div></div>

I don't think "who's who" is in question here. Its clear that the officers are at the top of the screen and the perp is near the middle.

What I can't tell from this is what direction the cop with the one handed grip was firing in.
 
Re: more BS for NY'rs inbound.

Watch the video, the LEO is LEFT HANDED, as he grabs his radio with the right hand. He's not shooting in the direction as the diagram dipicts.
The problem I see with this encounter is the LEO's didn't engage the perp sooner with their weapons already drawn. Hindsight is 20/20 right! Yes, the officers need more thorough weapons training, but how many here critizing the cops have been in that same situation? Do you think that you would have performed any better?
 
Re: more BS for NY'rs inbound.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Polytrauma</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Watch the video, the LEO is LEFT HANDED, as he grabs his radio with the right hand. He's not shooting in the direction as the diagram dipicts.
The problem I see with this encounter is the LEO's didn't engage the perp sooner with their weapons already drawn. Hindsight is 20/20 right! <span style="color: #FF0000">Yes, the officers need more thorough weapons training, but how many here critizing the cops have been in that same situation? Do you think that you would have performed any better?</span>

</div></div>

BINGO!

What I've been trying to say all along. Why is this so hard to understand for some? No one is saying that what happened is acceptable because it isn't but the truth of the matter is that it happened.

Should there be more training? Absolutely, even though there is no training that will prepare you for the real thing. Would getting rid of the NY trigger help? Probably, pulling 12lbs under fear, stress at a moving target while moving yourself and hoping for accurate hits is asking for a miracle. Are they going to get rid of the NY trigger? You have a better chance of seeing the 2nd coming of Christ. Should cops train on their own dime? Yes and no, but the truth of the matter is that a lot of cops see the range as a nuisance/chore that MUST be done in order to keep the job. That and most guys think "it'll never happen to me" so they tend to get complacent.

That's the reality of it folks.
 
Re: more BS for NY'rs inbound.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: paulosantos</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: truman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">bend it, twist it, or spin it, the bottom line is the police shot 9 innocents. why is less important than IT WAS DONE. how many good deeds and attaboys did these 9 "oh shits" destroy. pr can't do anything to negate this event. the current mayor will, most likely, have somebody fall on his sword. the official checkbook will tapped significantly. what happpend to "to PROTECT and to serve." </div></div>

The problem is that you are making it sound like they shot the innocent people on purpose. Put yourself in their place and see how you would feel if you were trying your best and accidentally shot innocent people. I don't understand why that is so hard to understand. Those 9 people should be thankful to be alive, but instead they will get lawyers and sue the hell out of the city. I hope they choke on that money if they sue. </div></div>

Paul,

In fairness a quick Google search of "firearm safety rules"


2. Never let the muzzle cross anything you are not willing to destroy.
Imagine a laser beam coming out of the barrel of your weapon. Never let that laser touch anything—even for a moment—that you aren’t willing to shoot.
Keep the weapon pointed in a direction that will safely stop any bullet fired.


4. Know your target and what’s beyond it.
Always positively identify your target as what you intend to shoot.
Be absolutely certain of what or who you are shooting.
Bullets may travel through a target and strike something behind it.

This is not a free fire zone and it is a stretch for, "Those 9 people should be thankful to be alive, but instead they will get lawyers and sue the hell out of the city".
 
Re: more BS for NY'rs inbound.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: W54/XM-388</div><div class="ubbcode-body">12 Pound triggers!

Wow I didn't know they had it that bad, that could quite possibly explain rounds going wildly off target even at a very close range.

Seriously did the politicians who made that decision have a remote understanding of anything?

Pulling through a 12 pound trigger pull and then the shot goes off & back to another 12 pound pull is going to give you horrible accuracy. I'd take a .357 or .44 magnum revolver (as long as it has a decently long barrel) over that any day. </div></div>

um.........no
 
Re: more BS for NY'rs inbound.

We live in a land of laws. Those laws are based fundamentally on restitution/rehabilitation and not retribution. The alternative would be go back to Retribution which it would not serve the officers well (presuming that the colateral damage was in fact caused by the officers).
 
Re: more BS for NY'rs inbound.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slapchop</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Polytrauma</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Watch the video, the LEO is LEFT HANDED, as he grabs his radio with the right hand. He's not shooting in the direction as the diagram dipicts.
The problem I see with this encounter is the LEO's didn't engage the perp sooner with their weapons already drawn. Hindsight is 20/20 right! <span style="color: #FF0000">Yes, the officers need more thorough weapons training, but how many here critizing the cops have been in that same situation? Do you think that you would have performed any better?</span>

</div></div>

BINGO!

What I've been trying to say all along. Why is this so hard to understand for some? No one is saying that what happened is acceptable because it isn't but the truth of the matter is that it happened.

Should there be more training? Absolutely, even though there is no training that will prepare you for the real thing. Would getting rid of the NY trigger help? Probably, pulling 12lbs under fear, stress at a moving target while moving yourself and hoping for accurate hits is asking for a miracle. Are they going to get rid of the NY trigger? You have a better chance of seeing the 2nd coming of Christ. Should cops train on their own dime? <span style="font-weight: bold">Yes and no, but the truth of the matter is that a lot of cops see the range as a nuisance/chore that MUST be done in order to keep the job. That and most guys think "it'll never happen to me" so they tend to get complacent.</span>

That's the reality of it folks. </div></div>

Then what are they doing being cops? Why do they have a firearm if they can't be bothered to learn how to use it? Why then should an under-skilled 'professional' be allowed to have a firearm? Why aren't these 'professionals' being brought up on charges of negligence or reckless endangerment or something so that other lazy-assed 'professionals' get off their asses and learn to use that hunk of metal that hangs off their hips?

I say the problem of a 12lb trigger is first finding out it's a 12lb trigger when you need to use it...

There will continue to be lazy complacent 'professionals' so long as there are apologists who say "that's the reality of it folks"...
 
Re: more BS for NY'rs inbound.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Then what are they doing being cops? Why do they have a firearm if they can't be bothered to learn how to use it? Why then should an under-skilled 'professional' be allowed to have a firearm? Why aren't these 'professionals' being brought up on charges of negligence or reckless endangerment or something so that other lazy-assed 'professionals' get off their asses and learn to use that hunk of metal that hangs off their hips?

I say the problem of a 12lb trigger is first finding out it's a 12lb trigger when you need to use it...

There will continue to be lazy complacent 'professionals' so long as there are apologists who say "that's the reality of it folks"...

</div></div>

Why don't you ask them? Why not use all your zeal and bravado to get the answers to your questions right from the horses mouth? Oh wait, that would require a bit of effort on your part now wouldn't it. It's far easier to bloviate from behind a keyboard.

We've been down this road before you and I. I'm surprised it took you this long to show up. Now start talking about the corrupt unions and how they're killing the country.
 
Re: more BS for NY'rs inbound.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slapchop</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Then what are they doing being cops? Why do they have a firearm if they can't be bothered to learn how to use it? Why then should an under-skilled 'professional' be allowed to have a firearm? Why aren't these 'professionals' being brought up on charges of negligence or reckless endangerment or something so that other lazy-assed 'professionals' get off their asses and learn to use that hunk of metal that hangs off their hips?

I say the problem of a 12lb trigger is first finding out it's a 12lb trigger when you need to use it...

There will continue to be lazy complacent 'professionals' so long as there are apologists who say "that's the reality of it folks"...

</div></div>

Why don't you ask them? Why not use all your zeal and bravado to get the answers to your questions right from the horses mouth? Oh wait, that would require a bit of effort on your part now wouldn't it. It's far easier to bloviate from behind a keyboard.

We've been down this road before you and I. I'm surprised it took you this long to show up. Now start talking about the corrupt unions and how they're killing the country. </div></div>

Yeah we have been down this road, that's why it took me a while to show up.

I'm asking you. You're a cop. You've given your answer, it's "c'est la vie", that's how it is folks. I've asked and seen responses from others like Paul 'oh you don't know the pressure...' the same guy who thinks people who got shot by cops should count themselves lucky to be alive and grateful... Don't give me that crap. You've said yourself there are bunch of cops who think "it won't happen to me" and so it's not pressure, it's being shit at your job.

I don't know how you are at your job Slap, I've nothing to suppose you're anything but a good cop but what you've said about others in the profession on this thread is enough for me to know I'm not too far from being wrong in my general estimation of the gap between the caliber of people who should be cops and the reality.

It's just pathetic.

We have the press we deserve because we don't demand any better, and we have the leaders and domestic guardians we deserve because we're too bovine to demand any better. The standard of mediocrity is being lowered every day and the public leeches and yes, especially the unionized ones, are saying it's still too high.

You can say how I make a big deal about how unions are milking civilians, and we both know it's true. Fuck it, the information is out there for people to learn it themselves. My plan is to transfer my income from mostly salary based to investment, I'll cut my taxes by more than half and it'll bug me less and you can defend a newer, lower standard of police enforcement unhindered/amused by my petty mewlings. We can both laugh at Joe Public sweating a wage and wondering much faster he has to run just to stand still.

Enjoy - it's only the best country in the world for now, soon you and your public leeches will have it just as broke, fearful and spineless as France or Italy. But hey, you're alright so who gives a fuck?
 
Re: more BS for NY'rs inbound.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is based on the News Conference, things may change but my take is:


According to the Mayor's Statements. Bad guy shoots victom 3 times. Bad buy carrying a 45 pistol (7 or 8 rounds, who knows).

Cops comfront bad guy who pulls pistol, Cops shoot bad guy, unk if bad guy got any rounds off at cops.

9 others shot.............do the math.

And people wonder why I think cops should have stuck to revolvers where they have to learn to shoot instead of depending on spray and pray.

Cops are responsible for where those extra rounds went.</div></div>

Never even came up. But yeah, they should be. I would if I did that regardless of the situation. On the other hand, I'd love to be the guy that got hit in the arm. Lots of good lawyers in that neighborhood, and I'd damn sure name those cops in my civil suit.
 
Re: more BS for NY'rs inbound.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm asking you. You're a cop. You've given your answer, it's "c'est la vie", that's how it is folks. I've asked and seen responses from others like Paul 'oh you don't know the pressure...' the same guy who thinks people who got shot by cops should count themselves lucky to be alive and grateful... Don't give me that crap. You've said yourself there are bunch of cops who think "it won't happen to me" and so it's not pressure, it's being shit at your job.</div></div>

"oh you don't know the pressure..." When did I say this?

"the same guy who thinks people who got shot by cops should count themselves lucky to be alive and grateful...". WTF!!!! If you don't understand what someone writes, maybe you should ask for clarification. The 9 people that were shot are very lucky that they are alive. Meaning, it could have been worse. It doesn't matter who shot them. What matters is that they are alive and escaped with minor wounds.

If I'm explaining it wrong, I apologize. I know what I'm trying to say, but it may not be coming out right.
 
Re: more BS for NY'rs inbound.

Event is the last guy anyone should be apologizing to. He's not dumb. He knew exactly what you meant but he likes to feign stupidity and spin things out of context in order to carry his argument.

Talk about weak and pathetic.
 
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