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F T/R Competition Suggestions for rifle upgrades

dm1779

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Oct 7, 2011
108
0
Seattle, WA
Currently I'm running a bone stock Savage 12 F/TR .308, Vortex Viper 6-24 FFP scope. It's been doing fairly well at 300, 500, 600 competitions. Was rather humbled at my first 1000 yard shoot this last weekend (509-1x). The 300/500/600 yard matches I'm shooting a consistent 92-93% average over the last 8 months.

My question is as I look up and down the line at these F-Class shoots, there isn't anything "stock" or "standard" there. As I don't have an unlimited budget to go out and buy everything at this point I'm soliciting suggestions for what would be a good starting point for upgrades.

1. Barrel
2. Stock
3. Action
4. Trigger

Also, your thoughts on what you'd consider priorities from that list from first to last.
 
Re: Suggestions for rifle upgrades

From your list I would select Scope and Ammo, not necessarily in that order.
 
Re: Suggestions for rifle upgrades

Just curious... where did you shoot 1k @ this last weekend? Not too many flat/KD ranges with that kind of distance within driving distance of Seattle. Rattlesnake (Tri-Cities) can eat your lunch without blinking, and Douglas Ridge (Portland) will drive you nutty trying to figure the seemingly random changes.

As far as your list: leave the barrel, action, and trigger alone. If still running that 'lump' that the factory supplies for a cheek piece, I'd suggest getting a Karsten saddle cheek piece and installing it (takes about 15 minutes with a cordless drill). Possibly have the stock bedded - opinions vary somewhat on that one; I generally prefer to have mine bedded but others have shot winning scores with theirs un-bedded as well.

The magnification of the scope could be higher, and I'd probably lose the FFP when you upgrade. Having the reticle cover more turf than strictly necessary in the center of the target is less than perfectly useful.

Ammunition can make a *big* difference... stuff that will work just fine @ mid-range can be like a ball-n-chain around your neck @ 1k. What bullet, and how its loaded, is very important. Without any info from you on what you're using now, its hard to give any recommendations on that front.

The basic equipment you're using (Sav 12 F/TR .308 Win) is essentially the same stuff we use on Team Savage... so I'd recommend *not* screwing with that unless you really have a burning desire to have something different.

YMMV,

Monte
 
Re: Suggestions for rifle upgrades

Monte - Shot at the Leupold Cup @ Douglas Ridge.

The wind there seemed to be l->r at the 600 and would kick up and then die and by the time I looked again it'd changed again.

I've been looking at the Tubb and the Master Class buttplate replacement. I'm 6'5" with a long neck and it's a struggle to get a consistent check wield as it won't sit in my shoulder right all the time. I settled on the high cheek piece from Savage as I couldn't get the short one to work right. I wasn't sure if the cheek piece or the butstock adjustment would be the best change.

With the Vortex scope, I've been happy with it thus far. The reticle on it hasn't been an issue for me yet and due to wicked mirage this weekend I had it dialed back to about 18/20x to be able to even see the target.

After determining that the brass (Nosler) needed to be neck turned (only after 2 firings) my groupings at 100 yards drastically decreased in size.

For 600yard and shorter I've been using
44grs of Varget
SMK 168gr BTHP
Federal GM210M Primers
Brass trimmed to 2.005" and bullet seated to 2.145 to the ogive.
Chronographed at 2840fps

For the 1000 yard match I loaded up
47grs of Varget
155 Berger Match FB (2156)
Federal GM210M Primers
Brass trimmed to 2.005" and bullet seated to 2.240 to the ogive
Chronographed at 2999fps
 
Re: Suggestions for rifle upgrades

What kind of bipod?
 
Re: Suggestions for rifle upgrades

Ah. I thought I saw another 12 F/TR sitting down on the left hand side of the line on Saturday, but not on Sunday. I was squadded down on target 14 at the other end of the line both days.

FWIW... Doug Ridge is notorious (in my mind, anyway) for being a range where one guy (usually in the middle of the line) will be banging away 10s and Xs with no problem whatsoever, while everybody else is pulling out whatever hair they might have and going "WTF?!? where did that 8 (or 7) come from...?" The next day, that person may be on another firing point... and howling curses at the wind gods as well.

The 600yd flags... are only somewhat useful on that range. Mirage often appears to run opposite the direction the bullet goes, while the flags do something else. The mirage *intensity* can be useful, but truthful directional changes are very, very hard to see @ DRRC - at least for me. When everything lines up - mirage and flags - either hold up (as in 'wait') or hold *way* over...

John Weil uses a Master Class butt plate on several of his 12 F/TR rifles, and generally I'd say they work very well for him. I can't remember exactly what his complaint with the Tubb was (I think it was too heavy, for one) but he really likes the Master Class one. I'm also in the 6'4"-6'5" range, long neck, long arms, etc. Normally I get by with a slip-on LimbSavr recoil pad and having the scope all the way forward on the rail (turrets nutted up against the front ring)... or else using an extended rail like the NF (spendy) or EGW (hate the screw heads they supply). I *really* wish Farrell cataloged a longer rail... trust me, I understand completely. I had put together a new rifle and was shooting it there this weekend with a new (hot) load... and the scope one notch too far back on the rail. I was getting clobbered dang near every shot, right in the glasses. I'll be pulling the EGW rail off another gun and putting it on this one, and probably adding a MC buttplate also. Even at 6'5", I may end up taking 3/4" or so off the factory stock to make up for the added weight.

I had the magnification on my scope turned down most of the weekend... from 42x to 30x. With a 6-24x, I doubt I would have touched it. To some degree, mirage is wind you can see - and usually shows changes sooner than the flags will.

The ammo sounds fine... although I will point out that the Berger 155.5 BT 'Fullbore' is not a 2156 (SMK). Overall, it sounds pretty close to what I was running on Sunday - B155.5BT @ 2.120" (Sinclair comparator insert) which for my barrel is 20 thou back from a hard jam, 46.5 Varget in neck-turned Lapua Palma brass, lit by a CCI 450 primer, running @ 2980fps. Assuming it groups good (sub half minute, preferably less) @ 300yds, it should be good to go.

Do you use a spotting scope to watch the mirage while shooting? That can help a *lot*... dial it back to focus about where the lower flag in the middle of the range of is, then look at the mirage running along the tops of the number boards - thats where your bullet is flying.

On that range, if you look at it in profile from the side... the lower flags are about 40 feet below where the bullet path is. Thats why they are not so helpful as you might expect. Also about that point... the terrain is still going *down*, the bullet is still arcing *up*, and the targets are *uphill* from the firing line - and the bullets actually clear the tree tops and just get hammered by wind currents you literally can't see or predict accurately. By focusing the scope around that region of the range, you can see it *somewhat*.

HTH,

Monte
 
Re: Suggestions for rifle upgrades

Monte -

Yeah, I was down shooting on target 6, relay 2.

Funny, I spent about 20 minutes talking to John about his Master Class and Tubbs. He had made reference that what he didn't like about the Tubbs was there was only a single hold point on the LOP "bolt" and so he put a second one into it to keep it in place.

I've got a spotting scope, however my current "stand" is my photography tripod which I can not get it down low enough to be able to utilize during a match. I've got to pick up a Ray-Vin or a Giraud stand so I can utilize it during the match.

At 24x, I couldn't see anything during most of the 2nd and 3rd matches as the mirage had gotten so thick. I couldn't pick out the structure of the target till I dialed it back a bit.

The 155's I was testing in groups of 5 at 100 yards at was getting just a hair over 1/2 MOA for a 5 shot group which I deemed to be acceptable.

I think between the new cheek piece and the Master Class 3-way Buttplate I'd probably be in a more consistent state. As I've never modified this stock, do you know of any "local/WA state" folks who could put this in place for me? Or it this not nearly as hard as it looks?

David
 
Re: Suggestions for rifle upgrades

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DM.Oakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
At 24x, I couldn't see anything during most of the 2nd and 3rd matches as the mirage had gotten so thick. I couldn't pick out the structure of the target till I dialed it back a bit. </div></div>

Interesting... I have a Viper PST 6-24x SFP mil-mil that I've been meaning to stick on one of my tac rifles for an F-Class match or two. The optical quality seems (so far) to be pretty decent, so I would have thought you wouldn't have that much problem with it. The mirage (and conditions) can vary noticeably from one end of the line to the other, so maybe the mirage was worse at that end?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 155's I was testing in groups of 5 at 100 yards at was getting just a hair over 1/2 MOA for a 5 shot group which I deemed to be acceptable. </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think between the new cheek piece and the Master Class 3-way Buttplate I'd probably be in a more consistent state. As I've never modified this stock, do you know of any "local/WA state" folks who could put this in place for me? Or it this not nearly as hard as it looks? </div></div>

I like Travis Redell of RBros Rifles (SH vendor, IIRC), but a lot of HP folks like Jim Cloward (out of Machias). Jim's getting up there a bit, and not always F-class friendly. You'd need to be able to drill a reasonably straight hole for the stem on the buttplate, and then the mounting plate is designed to be ground down to fit and then polished up. If you can do that stuff, it shouldn't be a problem.
 
Re: Suggestions for rifle upgrades

Overall I've been happy with my 6-24 that I've got. This is the first time I've had a problem with mirage and being able to see the target.

I shot an email over to Travis to see about timing and cost. I've talked to Jim several times at the Machias matches, I'll ask him the next time I'm out for a match.