Magpul UBR with Vltor A5H3 Buffer system.

[Mnelson138]

THE IMAGE ABOVE IS A PAID ADVERTISEMENT

I'm planning a new build. Going for a recce style rifle with a MSTN Upper with a Noveske 16 inch Intermediate length gas system. I was advised to go with the Vltor A5 Buffer system and even though I already run Vltor stocks and have heard nothing but great thing about the A5 system I think I want to try out the Magpul UBR but keep smoothness of a A5 buffer system. I have read alot of things about using the A5H3 Buffer and rifle length spring in a standard carbine recevier extention but I wanted to see if anyone out there runs this setup, or has any other info if this system will really work and be as good?

Does the length of the Vltor A5 systems Buffer tube really make or break this system?

Basiclly can I run a A5H3 Buffer and a Sprinco spring (Red or Green) in the UBR's buffer tube and get a similar feel as the complete A5 system...??

 

[elephantrider]

Re: Magpul UBR with Vltor A5H3 Buffer system.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mnelson138</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I have read alot of things about using the A5H3 Buffer and rifle length spring in a standard carbine recevier extention but I wanted to see if anyone out there runs this setup, or has any other info if this system will really work and be as good?

</div></div>

You cannot run an A5 buffer in a standard carbine receiver extension because it is not long enough, thus the existence of the Vltor A5 length extension. I would imagine attempting this would cause damage, so whoever wrote this made a mistake, was full of it, or you mis-read what they wrote.

That having been said, since the UBR uses an integrated standard carbine length receiver extension, you cannot use an A5 buffer with the Magpul UBR stock. You would have to use a slide over type buttstock (Vltor IMOD, Magpul CTR, STR, ACS, etc.) on and A5 receiver extension.

The Vltor A5 is a worthwhile upgrade in most cases, in my opinion. It slows down the recoil impulse, reduces muzzle flip, and delays bolt unlocking. Great for making a carbine or a mid-length gas system feel smoother, and can be used on rifle length gas system if you want a collapsing stock instead of a rifle stock. Probably the only time you don't want/need one is if you a using a competition style adjustable gas block, or need the absolute shortest buttstock possible. The A5 extension and buffer do add about an inch to LOP.

You also don't need any special Sprinco springs. They work great with the rifle sping that comes with the kit. If you wear it out, just replace with a quality Mil-spec rifle spring. You probably wont need the the A5H3 buffer either. The standard A5 5.3oz buffer should work fine. Your gun will likely feel a little sluggish if you use the A5H3 (6.1 oz) buffer. Really only reason to use it is if your gun is overgassed (not likely for a new Noveske).
Good video with slow motion:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=m7IoXcLm_2g

 

[Mnelson138]

Re: Magpul UBR with Vltor A5H3 Buffer system.

I've seen the video and gone over the manufactuers information. So I understand that the A5's tube is longer and that the standard A5 buffer(sorry not A5H3) will most likely bottom out in a carbine tube.

I mentioned the Sprinco spring because of what I read and wanted to see if I did use the standard A5 buffer with a different spring(Sprinco spring) in a carbine buffer if that would work.

I was thinking about using a adjustable gas block for future suspression of this rifle, whether or not thats the right route to go I'm not 100%. Would the adjustable gas block be enough to smoothen things out? I have no experience with them.

Or is there a tested heavy buffer and spring combo fit for the UBR's tube that comes close to the recoil reduction of a A5 system?

Thanks..

 

[elephantrider]

Re: Magpul UBR with Vltor A5H3 Buffer system.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mnelson138</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've seen the video and gone over the manufactuers information. So I understand that the A5's tube is longer and that the standard A5 buffer(sorry not A5H3) will most likely bottom out in a carbine tube. </div></div>

What you apparently aren't understanding is how the A5 system works as a whole. It will not 'most likely' bottom out, it definitly will. That will result in a non-functioning gun and some damage to boot.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mnelson138</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I mentioned the Sprinco spring because of what I read and wanted to see if I did use the standard A5 buffer with a different spring(Sprinco spring) in a carbine buffer if that would work.</div></div>

What you read is wrong. It has nothing to do with Springco or non-Springco springs. It has to do with the fact that if you use a carbine receiver extension with an A5 buffer your bolt will travel about .05" less to the rear than it should. The A5 buffer and receiver are BOTH longer to work with the longer rifle spring. One part does not work without the other two parts. It is a SYSTEM, get it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mnelson138</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I was thinking about using a adjustable gas block for future suspression of this rifle, whether or not thats the right route to go I'm not 100%. Would the adjustable gas block be enough to smoothen things out? I have no experience with them.
</div></div>

Re-read my previous post re: adjustable gas blocks and the A5 system.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mnelson138</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Or is there a tested heavy buffer and spring combo fit for the UBR's tube that comes close to the recoil reduction of a A5 system?
Thanks.. </div></div>

There is more to the A5 system than a heavy buffer. You may have done some reding about it, but clearly you are not comprehending how it actually works compared to a standard buffer. If you just want a heavy buffer, throw an H2, or H3 buffer in and see how it works. Or go to http://www.heavybuffers.com/ if you want to buy a fancy heavy buffer.

 

[Mnelson138]

Re: Magpul UBR with Vltor A5H3 Buffer system.

Wow, calm down partner..

I do understand how this system works and that it is a system that works together. Maybe I didnt phase my questions in the right way for someone like you or maybe your reading me wrong.

People trade and swap out parts all the time to get the effect they want and what I read was probably wrong and I probably mis-read some of it. All I'm trying to do was get some answers so no need to get on your high horse and try to make a person feel stupid for trying to find out more information. Like most people I'm going to question 99% of the info I get online and if you cant handle that then dont reply, its that simple..

Again what I'm trying to do is figure out a system that will work similar to the A5, but used with the UBR. So if I'm looking in the place to figure out a way to smoothen out recoil thats fine, my bad, just explain that as you somewhat did and go about your business.

And I think I got what you said after reading your post the first time. Since I've never used a adjustable gas block the answer you gave to that question doesnt give me enough info on whether or not its the route I should go. But thats fine I'll find the answers elsewhere. So thanks for that bit of info.

Have a great day buddy..

 

[NoFail]

Re: Magpul UBR with Vltor A5H3 Buffer system.

Mnelson, hey man just keep it simple. Magpul specifically, for best results, recommends Slash's Heavy Buffer from heavybuffers.com to be used with the UBR, in a AR-10/LR-308. I went there and got the CAR 10-XH with modified Armalite spring to use with my UBR. Mine is for my LR-308. If you have AR15 check out his AR15 buffers for carbine length. If your not sure call him!!!

http://heavybuffers.com/products.html

 

[elephantrider]

Re: Magpul UBR with Vltor A5H3 Buffer system.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mnelson138</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow, calm down partner..</div></div>
I am calm and I am NOT your 'partner.'

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mnelson138</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I do understand how this system works and that it is a system that works together. Maybe I didnt phase my questions in the right way for someone like you or maybe your reading me wrong.</div></div>
I read and responded to what you wrote in your response. What else is there for me to respond to? By 'someone like you,' do you mean someone who owns and uses several of the A5 kits and has assembled several more? Maybe I should have made that qualification so that you didn't feel the need to qestion my first response?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mnelson138</div><div class="ubbcode-body">People trade and swap out parts all the time to get the effect they want and what I read was probably wrong and I probably mis-read some of it. All I'm trying to do was get some answers so no need to get on your high horse and try to make a person feel stupid for trying to find out more information. Like most people I'm going to question 99% of the info I get online and if you cant handle that then dont reply, its that simple.</div></div>
I know all about swapping parts. These happen to be some non-swappable parts, that's the point I was trying to make, but you didn't seem to be catching on to that. I made my response not just for you, but for the benefit of anyone who happens to be reading. I am not trying to make you feel dumb for asking questions. What bothers me is that you got a good answer and then proceeded to ask the same question again, as if you knew better. Asking questions is fine, that's how we all learn, but don't question qualified responses when you are being spoon fed good information. I also apologize if the existence of someone who knows more about something that you makes you feel 'stupid.'

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mnelson138</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Again what I'm trying to do is figure out a system that will work similar to the A5, but used with the UBR. So if I'm looking in the place to figure out a way to smoothen out recoil thats fine, my bad, just explain that as you somewhat did and go about your business. </div></div>
There are three things that make an A5 feel like an A5.
1. Uses a rifle length spring. Longer springs do not have to be as stiff as a shorter spring that is trying to do the same job (in this case absorbing the energy of the BCG and returning it to battery). The rifle length spring gives a more consistent spring rate and a smoother overall feel.
2. Uses a heavier buffer. Helps tame recoil somewhat as well as delays unlocking of the bolt with the added mass holding the BCG in battery.
3. Has an internal spring that holds the buffer weights forward in the buffer when the BCG is in battery. This is important because it ensures that the weights are always against the rear face of the bolt carrier. With the weights against the rear of the carrier they are always doing their job of holding the BCG in battery as the bolt begins to unlock (no early bolt unlocking from battery). This aids in reliability and accuracy.

With a UBR stock you will never have items 1 and 3. You can add #2 (a heavier buffer), but you run the risk of adversly affecting reliability if it is too heavy. What is too heavy for your carbine, all depends on your carbine's gas system. You will eventually have failures of the bolt to lock back on an empty magazine with a buffer that is too heavy. An H2 may be fine for you gun and soften the perceived recoil, but an H3 may cause the bolt to not lock back on an empty mag. Then again an H3 may be fine in your gun. You will have to experiment to find out.

Is this a complete enough answer for you? May I go about my business now?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mnelson138</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
And I think I got what you said after reading your post the first time. Since I've never used a adjustable gas block the answer you gave to that question doesnt give me enough info on whether or not its the route I should go. But thats fine I'll find the answers elsewhere. So thanks for that bit of info.</div></div>

You are welcome for the spoon feeding. Any time.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mnelson138</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Have a great day buddy.. </div></div>

I will have a great day, and I am NOT your 'buddy.' BTW all the information that I posted, came from me spending time searching and READING what people with more experience than me had to say. Go figure.

 

[DavidAR10]

Re: Magpul UBR with Vltor A5H3 Buffer system.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_the_messenger

Slash is the man.

 

[Mnelson138]

Re: Magpul UBR with Vltor A5H3 Buffer system.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: elephantrider</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mnelson138</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow, calm down partner..</div></div>
I am calm and I am NOT your 'partner.'

Hahaha... Yes you are..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mnelson138</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I do understand how this system works and that it is a system that works together. Maybe I didnt phase my questions in the right way for someone like you or maybe your reading me wrong.</div></div>
I read and responded to what you wrote in your response. What else is there for me to respond to? By 'someone like you,' do you mean someone who owns and uses several of the A5 kits and has assembled several more? Maybe I should have made that qualification so that you didn't feel the need to qestion my first response?

So questioning your answers makes you feel threatened, mad, or feel the need to act the way you did. Nice...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mnelson138</div><div class="ubbcode-body">People trade and swap out parts all the time to get the effect they want and what I read was probably wrong and I probably mis-read some of it. All I'm trying to do was get some answers so no need to get on your high horse and try to make a person feel stupid for trying to find out more information. Like most people I'm going to question 99% of the info I get online and if you cant handle that then dont reply, its that simple.</div></div>
I know all about swapping parts. These happen to be some non-swappable parts, that's the point I was trying to make, but you didn't seem to be catching on to that. I made my response not just for you, but for the benefit of anyone who happens to be reading. I am not trying to make you feel dumb for asking questions. What bothers me is that you got a good answer and then proceeded to ask the same question again, as if you knew better. Asking questions is fine, that's how we all learn, but don't question qualified responses when you are being spoon fed good information. I also apologize if the existence of someone who knows more about something that you makes you feel 'stupid.'


I never said I felt "stupid" because you may or may not know more about a buffer system than me. So no need to aplogize to me. I could careless what someone from the internet says to me.

What your assuming is WRONG and is you being just a little ignorant. I got that YOU dont swap out those parts but I dont know you and I like to make sure of things before I settle on a answer, hence questioning your answer. Sorry it hurt your feelings. Ill question anything I want to and if you dont like it, again move along or dont reply to the question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mnelson138</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Again what I'm trying to do is figure out a system that will work similar to the A5, but used with the UBR. So if I'm looking in the place to figure out a way to smoothen out recoil thats fine, my bad, just explain that as you somewhat did and go about your business. </div></div>
There are three things that make an A5 feel like an A5.
1. Uses a rifle length spring. Longer springs do not have to be as stiff as a shorter spring that is trying to do the same job (in this case absorbing the energy of the BCG and returning it to battery). The rifle length spring gives a more consistent spring rate and a smoother overall feel.
2. Uses a heavier buffer. Helps tame recoil somewhat as well as delays unlocking of the bolt with the added mass holding the BCG in battery.
3. Has an internal spring that holds the buffer weights forward in the buffer when the BCG is in battery. This is important because it ensures that the weights are always against the rear face of the bolt carrier. With the weights against the rear of the carrier they are always doing their job of holding the BCG in battery as the bolt begins to unlock (no early bolt unlocking from battery). This aids in reliability and accuracy.

With a UBR stock you will never have items 1 and 3. You can add #2 (a heavier buffer), but you run the risk of adversly affecting reliability if it is too heavy. What is too heavy for your carbine, all depends on your carbine's gas system. You will eventually have failures of the bolt to lock back on an empty magazine with a buffer that is too heavy. An H2 may be fine for you gun and soften the perceived recoil, but an H3 may cause the bolt to not lock back on an empty mag. Then again an H3 may be fine in your gun. You will have to experiment to find out.

Is this a complete enough answer for you? May I go about my business now?

Yes and yes. Thats more like it and should have been your first answer. Period.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mnelson138</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
And I think I got what you said after reading your post the first time. Since I've never used a adjustable gas block the answer you gave to that question doesnt give me enough info on whether or not its the route I should go. But thats fine I'll find the answers elsewhere. So thanks for that bit of info.</div></div>

You are welcome for the spoon feeding. Any time.

Thanks, but insted of just saying your welcome you had to add the "spoon feeding", haha. Good one buddy.. pshhh..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mnelson138</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Have a great day buddy.. </div></div>

I will have a great day, and I am NOT your 'buddy.' BTW all the information that I posted, came from me spending time searching and READING what people with more experience than me had to say. Go figure. </div></div>

Ohhh, so what are you trying to say, that I dont read, understand or spent any time reseaching. Again there goes that thing, ignorance and assumptions. Get off your high horse buddy. You have no clue what Ive done, and read. Your not better than anyone else no matter what you know. People like you make sites like these suck. Elitest assholes that think just because they have more information than another person they have the right to act like you over a couple simple questions. Nice one buddy. Sorry that questioning your answers hurt your feelings.

 

[Mnelson138]

Re: Magpul UBR with Vltor A5H3 Buffer system.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NoFail</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mnelson, hey man just keep it simple. Magpul specifically, for best results, recommends Slash's Heavy Buffer from heavybuffers.com to be used with the UBR, in a AR-10/LR-308. I went there and got the CAR 10-XH with modified Armalite spring to use with my UBR. Mine is for my LR-308. If you have AR15 check out his AR15 buffers for carbine length. If your not sure call him!!!

http://heavybuffers.com/products.html

</div></div>

Thanks man. See this is the type of answers I was looking for. I guess I should just stay off these MSG Boards and call the companies myself with questions I cant find the answers to online. There are just to many big heads on these sites that think there gods gift.

Thanks again NoFail..

 

[Mnelson138]

Re: Magpul UBR with Vltor A5H3 Buffer system.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DavidAR10</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_the_messenger

Slash is the man.

</div></div>

I dont think not being about to use the A5 is bad news. Maybe to you, but not me. So many assumptions on this site. wow..

I over think a setup and this is what happenes. Gesh, some people need to get a life.

 

[DavidAR10]

Re: Magpul UBR with Vltor A5H3 Buffer system.

1) You come in as a newb and asked for an answer to your desires.

2) You get an answer with factual/technical reasons as to why it is a no-go.

3) You piss back at the guy giving you free, correct, factual, no da-da-damn doubt about it information.

4) He, elephantrider, goes into moar detail with the commutative law.

5) You, the newb that we cannot attack, gets moar pissy

6a) I, knowing that that the commutative law must have brought back unpleasant high school memories in Math class at the chalkboard, to cause such a reaction...

decided to leave out the integral f(x) by separation of parts stuff and just throw in some anecdotal history that matches your reaction to the information that you received.

6b) And adding a picture of my ARMALITE AR-10A4 with an UBR that is stuffed with a Slash buffer and modified ARMALITE spring.

So, newb, just remember that not all good information given freely around here is given with hugs and kisses.

You are the newb. You get an ouch from correct & free information at this site... spit and rub dirt on it.

BTW, welcome aboard.



<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mnelson138</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DavidAR10</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_the_messenger

Slash is the man.

</div></div>

I dont think not being about to use the A5 is bad news. Maybe to you, but not me. So many assumptions on this site. wow..

I over think a setup and this is what happenes. Gesh, some people need to get a life. </div></div>