Rifle Scopes Bushnell Elite 4200 Tactical 6-24x50, FFP or SFP?

[scudzuki]

Hello all.
This is my first post here, I joined a while back but have been a lurker until now.

I purchased a Bushnell Elite 4200 Tactical ET6245 from Optics Planet over the weekend based on the fairly positive opinions of many.

The unit has not arrived yet but I figured I'd do some reading to become familiar with the scope, so I went to Bushnell's website to download documentation.

I was surprised to see that model decribed as being FFP on their website. The manual for the Elite mil-dot reticle describes setting the magnification to 12x in order for the mil dots to be proportionally correct. Pictures of the scope show the 12x setting on the adjustment knob marked a different color to facilitate quick adjustments, too. That sure sounds like SFP to me.

Thoughts?

Joe

 

[predatornut]

Re: Bushnell Elite 4200 Tactical 6-24x50, FFP or SFP?

Are you sure it is an elite "4200"? I didnt see one on their site. That model was discontinued last year, they have an elite tactical line which took its place. The 4200's were offered in both first and second focal plane. The manual with mine focused on the second focal plane model and didn't really say anything about the first focal plane features. I'm not sure if the new elite tacticals are offered in SFP or just FFP. It will be obvious which you have when you get it and play with the magnification.

 

[scudzuki]

Re: Bushnell Elite 4200 Tactical 6-24x50, FFP or SFP?

You are right, it is not a 4200, just an Elite Tactical.
Nevertheless, the picture and manual say SFP and the "features" lists FFP.

It is also true that I will know immediately when I spin the zoom adjuster.

Joe

 

[CSTactical]

Re: Bushnell Elite 4200 Tactical 6-24x50, FFP or SFP?

If your getting the ET6245F it is FFP.

Mike @ CST

 

[scudzuki]

Re: Bushnell Elite 4200 Tactical 6-24x50, FFP or SFP?

It is an ET6245.

Joe

 

[scudzuki]

Re: Bushnell Elite 4200 Tactical 6-24x50, FFP or SFP?

Arrived today.
Nicest glass I've owned so far, but NOT FFP, despite what they claim on their website.
However, the reference magnification is 12x. Since it is a 6-24x scope, the mil dots can still be used at 6x and 24x... at 6x an indicated 1 mil is 1/2, and at 24x it is 2.

I am going to contact them, though, since I asked an "expert" on their website and he assured me it is FFP. They should update the page for this scope, me thinks.

Joe

 

[2ac]

Re: Bushnell Elite 4200 Tactical 6-24x50, FFP or SFP?

I'm very happy with my 4200 Elite 3-12, MIL/MIL FFP. It's my first scope with these features and I'm not going back. I'm not sure if you've considered returning it, but you might like the other better.

 

[FamilyMan]

Re: Bushnell Elite 4200 Tactical 6-24x50, FFP or SFP?

Don't pay any attention to the manual because i just received my 6-24 FFP Elite tactical in the mail from midway on Tues and the manual it came with is generic to all of their elite mildot reticle scopes(I own 3, 2 SFP and 1 FFP) and it uses the SFP method to demonstrate the features even though it came with a FFP

 

[FamilyMan]

Re: Bushnell Elite 4200 Tactical 6-24x50, FFP or SFP?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: scudzuki</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Arrived today.
Nicest glass I've owned so far, but NOT FFP, despite what they claim on their website.
However, the reference magnification is 12x. Since it is a 6-24x scope, the mil dots can still be used at 6x and 24x... at 6x an indicated 1 mil is 1/2, and at 24x it is 2.

I am going to contact them, though, since I asked an "expert" on their website and he assured me it is FFP. They should update the page for this scope, me thinks.

Joe</div></div> I should of read this before my previous post

there was another guy on here that went through this same scenario and had trouble dealing with Bushnell on it so try dealing first with the retailer you purchased it through if you are wanting to go down the return or replace route.

 

[scudzuki]

Re: Bushnell Elite 4200 Tactical 6-24x50, FFP or SFP?

The reticle size does not change with the magnification, meaning the mil-dots do not change proportionally to the view, so I believe that makes it SFP, please correct me if I'm wrong.
Other than the math required to use the ranging (and holdover) advantage of the mil-dot, I'm happy with it. I DID make an error when I posted last night; at 6x, one indicated mil = 2 mils and at 24x one indicated = 1/2 mil.

Seems like the FFP scopes are more money, and if the glass is no different, I'll stick with what I have.

The retailer did not advertise it as FFP, Bushnell did.

I was considering contacting them to update their website with the proper specs.

I'm going to keep it.

Shot it this morning and the glass is nice, better than what I've used in the past.

Joe

 

[scudzuki]

Re: Bushnell Elite 4200 Tactical 6-24x50, FFP or SFP?

The manual for the reticle shows dots with a radius of .25 and therefore a diameter of .5 mil, which would make the stadia lines connecting the dots .5 mil. I estimate the size of the dots at 1/4 the length of the stadia, or about .2 mil.

This seems to correspond quite closely to the military standard of .22 mil.

Anybody have any thoughts on this?

I called Bushnell about this and apparently pissed off the woman answering the phone, who claimed to be well trained on their products. I told her that if I focus on a branch at a distance and change the magnification until the branch width = a dot diameter, that I can fit 4 branch widths in the space between the dots, so the dots can't be .5 mils. I guess she was upset that she had no answer for me?

I then informed her that the website indicated the scope was FFP when it is in fact SFP, maybe information that she could pass on to the web developing staff. That seemed to put her over the edge.

I did wish her a happy Labor Day weekend, though.

Joe

 

[FamilyMan]

Re: Bushnell Elite 4200 Tactical 6-24x50, FFP or SFP?

If you re happy with it then great but i just took my FFP out yesterday for the first time and i don't think i will ever own a SFP again because i never had to scale back up or down to mil the target and make my corrections.

 

[scudzuki]

Re: Bushnell Elite 4200 Tactical 6-24x50, FFP or SFP?

Can I ask what model you bought that is FFP, and what did you pay?
Looks like the illuminated mil dot is FFP, but $200 or so more.
Can you post the link to the product at Midway?

Also, how big are the dots in your mil-dot reticle?

Joe

 

[FamilyMan]

Re: Bushnell Elite 4200 Tactical 6-24x50, FFP or SFP?

I bought the Elite Tactical 6-24x50mm FFP with the G2DMR reticle Model#ET6245FG
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/145303/...r-reticle-matte

it was $949 but i used a midway code from here and it ended up $926 with shipping.
i Don't know What size the mildots are mine comes with the same manual as the one you are describing and i havent scaled it yet

 

[scudzuki]

Re: Bushnell Elite 4200 Tactical 6-24x50, FFP or SFP?

After doing some reading, I decided to return the ET6245 and order an ET6245FG.

The G2DMR looks to be an extremely useful reticle, and the turrets are in mils, not MOA. The FFP is the icing on the cake, or maybe the cake. All in all a better-featured scope.

The glass on the SFP scope I'm returning is, as I've already written, the best I've ever had (which is not saying all that much) but it is my understanding that an FFP scope should be even more efficient (clearer and brighter) since it requires fewer lenses.

Am looking forward to finding out.

FamilyMan, thanks for your help. You know there's a $75 rebate from Bushnell on your new scope, right?

Joe

 

[FamilyMan]

Re: Bushnell Elite 4200 Tactical 6-24x50, FFP or SFP?

Yeah i found out after I had ordered mine about the rebate. You will definatly be happy with the FFP Mil/Mil this is the first mil/mil I have had and am amazed at how much better it is than a mil/moa it just make so much more sense to have matching turrets and is so easy to use especially with FFP for sight in and corrections I kick myself for waiting this long to get one.
Enjoy your scope when you get it and hopefully it comes right the first time

 

[scudzuki]

Re: Bushnell Elite 4200 Tactical 6-24x50, FFP or SFP?

Scope arrive today.
Got it mounted up and bore sighted.

First flight tomorrow morning.

Only thing I don't like about the FFP, at higher magnifications, it really cuts into the lowermost mil hashes on the vertical stadia line. I knew it would cut some of the reticle off, but I didn't think it would be that much.

Since I don't have access to a 1000 yard range anyway, I guess it's a moot point.

It is really nice overall, though.

On another note, I got an inexpensive Simmons scope this week, and mounted it up on a 20" barreled AR-15 I built. Like pratically every cheap scope I have seen, the literature packaged with the optic is completely inadequate. I called the tech support number and the automated greeting said "thank you for calling Bushnell" so apparently Simmons is owned by Bushnell. I got to chatting with the guy who answered the phone (far more knowledgable than the gal I talked to when I called Bushnell) and mentioned that I was waiting on the Elite scope. Turns out this guy has the same scope and shoots out to 1000 yards with it and he can't say enough about the optic or the G2DMR reticle. It was refreshing to talk to someone in tech support who is passionate about the products they support.

Joe

 

[scudzuki]

Re: Bushnell Elite 4200 Tactical 6-24x50, FFP or SFP?

After laser bore sighting the scope in last night, my first shot fired at the range this morning was 2 mils right and .7 mils high.

I dialed in 2 mils left and .7 mils down and the next shot nicked the bullseye. Nice. That was 2 shots. Actually, the Simmons scope I just put on an AR took 2 shots to zero as well. It's a good start.

Right now I have 7 mils of adjustment down available so I could put a 20 MOA base on and have a little to spare, but I have 12 mils up adj. as well, so in theory, that will get me to 1000 yards with .308 (or so says Strelok and RSI Shooting Labs). I think I'll live with what the mount I have for now.

The glass is really nice and the FFP is, well, awesome, in a word. The reticle in conjunction with mil turrets made zeroing a breeze.

One thing not working out so well is the windage adjustment. This is the 3rd scope I have mounted without moving the one piece RRA mount I'm using, and I had to dial the windage 3 mils off center to get it zeroed. The last Bushy scope I mounted (the ET6245) was nearly centered in the windage adjustment as was the Pentax Gameseeker before that.

I am left with 4 mils left and 10 mils right windage adjustment. Seems a little odd, no?

My plan has been to use holdovers (thus the G2DMR) so it may be a moot point, but it hints at something not quite right.

I think I will shoot it for a while, and if it is a problem, well, lifetime warranty to the rescue.

Thoughts?

Joe

 

[blonz]

Re: Bushnell Elite 4200 Tactical 6-24x50, FFP or SFP?

I don't want to hijack this tread but I've got the following problem: I just received the Bushnell (6-24x50 FFP illum. mildot)
when I set the illumination on, the vertical part of the recticle is brighter than the horizontal one. Only set it to the max I do not recognize a difference but then the recticle is too bright. Its irritating for me, anyone else experienced this?

 

[exedotbat]

Re: Bushnell Elite 4200 Tactical 6-24x50, FFP or SFP?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blonz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't want to hijack this tread but I've got the following problem: I just received the Bushnell (6-24x50 FFP illum. mildot)
when I set the illumination on, the vertical part of the recticle is brighter than the horizontal one. Only set it to the max I do not recognize a difference but then the recticle is too bright. Its irritating for me, anyone else experienced this? </div></div>

My reticle lights up uniform, but I find to be to washed during the day even on a dark target. I wish it was red instead of green.